Over 1/3 of people say a victim of rape is partly responsible if....

Dudess · 26-03-2008 11:07PM

Wertz wrote: »

I am shocked however at the under 25's thing...can't figure that one out at all unless they're just really blasé about the whole issue and don't really understand the issues.

And machoness/bitchiness, as another poster pointed out. Makes sense.

robinph · 26-03-2008 11:14PM

Cianos wrote: »

There is no sense in this argument. So, going by the same reasoning, a girl is 'irresponsible' by stepping out her front door at all, and if she wanted to be completely responsible, she should just never leave the house. ever.

Huh!?! Where did you get that from?

Wertz · 26-03-2008 11:15PM

Ircoha, read mordeth's post again, read the preceding posts...it's a semi-ironic statement. Mordeth isn't saying that the reason for paedophilia is children wearing sexual clothing...he's aping the paedophiles who try and use this as a valid excuse for their actions...

Sam Vimes · 26-03-2008 11:16PM

keen wrote: »

The only person to blame is the rapist.

Can't see how anyone can make any sort of valid argument to support the rapist in the slighest.

And the "short skirt low cut top" point is one of the stupidest things I've heard on the matter.

no one's making any claim to support the rapist, and i don't think that saying the woman is "to blame" is the right way to put it. what i think people were saying was that girls sometimes do stupid things that increase their chances of being raped.

when i say that, i mean something like walking down a dark alley alone in the middle of the night. saying they're to blame for wearing revealing clothes is of course ridiculous.

its just common sense. if you're small and weak, you shouldn't get so off your face you have no idea what's going on and then either walk home alone or go home with some bloke you don't know. both are extremely dangerous situations that could be avoided with a little common sense

Cianos wrote:

There is no sense in this argument. So, going by the same reasoning, a girl is 'irresponsible' by stepping out her front door at all, and if she wanted to be completely responsible, she should just never leave the house. ever.

there are calculated risks and there are stupid risks. leaving your house is a calculated risk. getting locked and walking a dark alley at 3 am with jonno is a stupid risk

Handsome Bob · 26-03-2008 11:20PM

Dudess wrote: »

And machoness/bitchiness, as another poster pointed out. Makes sense.

Yo.

ircoha wrote: »

After hours or not the above is WOTT

What, and discussions about sterilising people and nuking people is not? Not saying he wasn't perhaps out of order but you cannot have it one way and not the other. Just because you feel more strongly about this subject than others doesn't mean it's untouchable. It's After hour's, people can say what they want, bull**** or not.

Handsome Bob · 26-03-2008 11:20PM

edit

Ickle Magoo · 26-03-2008 11:21PM

ircoha wrote: »

After hours or not the above is WOTT

I read that comment & thought he was just drawing attention to how ridiculous it is to blame the victim of a sexual crime. If you can say men find women sexually attractive & therefor women should be obliged to cover up so they don't invite a rapist, there are parallels that can be drawn with other sexual criminals, such as children being blamed for attracting paedophiles by being children & by definition what paedophiles find sexually attractive...wearing a low cut top shouldn't excuse a rapist anymore than being an early developed 10yr old excuses that rapist or his lousy judge. :mad:

randylonghorn · 26-03-2008 11:36PM

I don't care what a woman is wearing, it doesn't give someone permission to rape her.

If a woman walks into my local pub a la Lady Godiva, I will take that as permission to look, and possibly drool a little. I may even clap. I still don't see it as permission to bend her over the nearest couch and shag her, unless she specifically tells me it's ok to do so.

I would accept the argument that a woman can take steps to minimise risk by how she behaves e.g. not getting pished off her head and then wandering off down a dark alley on her own. But no-one is ever responsible for rape apart from the rapist.

ircoha wrote: »

After hours or not the above is WOTT

Turn your filter to "Extreme Sarcasm", ircoha. Mord operates on that frequency most of the time.

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think I'm going to file a list of all the after hourers who subscribe to this opinion.
Attend christmas beers.
Stalk each mark until they are suitably incapable of fighting me off.
And see how many root ginger butt plugs I can work my way through.

Give it a try before you post said opinion.....and judge for yourself if it worth it.

I have only one question, Moonbaby ... why root ginger??

the_syco · 26-03-2008 11:37PM

ircoha wrote: »

After hours or not the above is WOTT

Wanna become the topic, honey?

Dudess · 26-03-2008 11:39PM

Yeah seriously ircoha, Mordeth was making a point, nothing more.

Todoquetengo · 26-03-2008 11:41PM

randylonghorn wrote: »

I have only one question, Moonbaby ... why root ginger??

Presumably because it causes a burning sensation :eek:

randylonghorn · 26-03-2008 11:45PM

Todoquetengo wrote: »

Presumably because it causes a burning sensation :eek:

Ah! Can't say I've ever shoved root ginger up my ass, so I was unaware of that, but I bow to your greater knowledge!

Wertz · 26-03-2008 11:54PM

Moonbaby wrote: »

I think I'm going to file a list of all the after hourers who subscribe to this opinion.
Attend christmas beers.
Stalk each mark until they are suitably incapable of fighting me off.
And see how many root ginger butt plugs I can work my way through.

Come on now girl, you know you'll be far too busy picking rohypnols out of your alcopop to be butt plugging anyone...
:pac:

MizzLolly · 26-03-2008 11:56PM

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Quite honestly, anyone who believes it's the woman's fault (Or for that matter, man's fault) is an idiot. Rape should not be excused. Might as well start blaming children for paedophiles.

Well said!

Revealing clothes DO NOT give the go ahead to rape a girl. And there is something drastically wrong with any person who thinks this way

Rb · 26-03-2008 11:58PM

Mordeth wrote: »

what's the biggest cause of paedophilia?

that's right, sexy children.

Bahahahaha.

Regarding rape, of course women wearing little clothing don't deserve to get raped, but in the society we live in, wearing such clothing makes it more likely that you will be, given the additional attention it will attract. Is that to say the woman is partly to blame? Possibly.

If a woman in a bar leads a man on/acts like a prick tease, does she deserve to get raped? No, but by acting in such a way she's increasing the chances that it'll happen.

By taking actions that increase the probability of getting raped, which would certainly include showing a lot of skin/flirting a huge amount/leading men i.e increasing the amount of attention from men, or actively seeking more attention from men (not all of whom are going to be good men, obviously), should the victim be partially to blame? Indeed they should.

No woman deserves to be raped, it's a horrible crime which scars people for life, but by acting in certain ways or dressing in certain ways, a woman can increase the chances of being raped i.e by increasing the amount of male attention, as well as decreasing the chances i.e dressing in a turtle neck in a bar will not get a woman half as much attention as the girls wearing a mini-skirt and cleavage showing tops in the bar with her.

A woman on her way home from work, in her work attire, is in no way responsible if she happens to get raped. However, if a woman does herself up to look "sexy" and goes out to bars full of men (again, some of whom won't be "good" men), flirts with a bunch of them, fills their heads with ideas (leads them on) or loses control over herself due to filling herself with alcohol (whilst flirting with men full of alcohol), she has put herself in a situation whereby the possibility of something happening shoots up.

So, by doing this, is she in some way to blame? I believe so. I'm not saying she's in any way near responsible for half the blame though, but these are risks you take when you draw such attention on yourself in a place full of horny men full of drink. Sure enough, 99.9% of them, though fuelled with alcohol, will do nothing as they're decent human beings.

It's 100% situationally dependant though. Though I've my own thoughts/feelings on women who sleep around a bunch, I'd never say that should they get raped, it's because they had that history. I think it's an absolutely stupidity to say/think such a thing.

Nor are they fully to blame if they wear revealing clothing, it may be a small factor in what caused a rape, and by dressing differently said attention may not have happened, but it's definitely not the womans fault completely if she happens to show a little skin and get raped over it.

The deserted area thing is pure crap too, unless by some chance there had been a massive amount of rapings there in recent times and the person was 100% aware of this and undertook to go through it regardless by themselves. Then I suppose some of the blame would rest on their shoulders.

It's a very, very touchy subject, some will always feel that no matter what a woman does, she is in no way responsible should she be sexually assaulted, others will take a difference stance and say that her actions (or lack thereof) caused what happened and that it wouldn't have happened had they not undertaken those actions, it's something that's hard to prove as there's no way of going back in time but regardless, people are entitled to their opinion on it and there is no right or wrong imo, it's a hazy subject and one that'll probably never get a definitive answer.

Piste · 27-03-2008 12:12AM

Oh dear I think I'm going to be very unpopular for this opinion, so before people jump down my throat and try to put words in my mouth let me clarify that

1)NO-ONE ever invites rape
2)A woman is never 100% responsible for her own rape

BUT, I think that a woman can be somewhat responsible to an extent. If a girl gets pissed drunk and goes off with a stranger, if a girl accepts a lift from a stranger, if a girl gets herself into a comprimising position (for example sharing a bed with a stranger at a party), if a girl leaves her drink unattended for a period of time, if a girl is walking on her own through a notoriously dodgy area at night, then she is somewaht responsible.

I liken it to leaving your car in the street, with the keys still in the ignition and all the doors wide open. Sure you don't WANT people to steal it, but you're a fool for putting yourself in the position where it will probably get stolen. It's awful if someone robs it and you did not want it to happen, so why make it easy for them?

Ickle Magoo · 27-03-2008 12:13AM

Is there any evidence that women wearing revealing clothes are most at risk from rapists? I thought (I may be completely wrong) that the majority of rapes occur in marriage, in relationships & by friends/relatives. Not to mention the fact that a beautiful sexy woman is that, even when she is in a baggy jumper & jeans...

I agree that risks can be minimised but at some point we have to trust being alone with a man, take the dog for a walk in the park alone, walk on our own to meet up with others & trust that some animal isn't going to attack us. To be made to be somehow to blame for "teasing" men by flirting or dressing "provocatively" just sits all wrong with me. It's suggesting women have to live their lives in fear of the criminal lack of control by some men or be blamed for the consequences.

MizzLolly · 27-03-2008 12:19AM

So the clothes a woman wears is the reason she gets raped?

I would've thought it had more to do with the voilent and cruel nature of the attacker...

At the end of the day there has to be something wrong with any man to hurt a woman like this regardless of what clothes the victim wore. That kind of aggression is either there or it isn't.. Simple as!

How many guys on this forum have cast their eyes on a half dressed female on a night out?

Now, how many of them proceeded to attack and rape this female?

I'd say it's more to do with the man who commits rape than his victim to be perfectly honest. Otherwise every girl in a short skirt would've been attacked at some stage. It can't be the clothes that causes it. It has to be the attacker

Todoquetengo · 27-03-2008 12:19AM

randylonghorn wrote: »

Ah! Can't say I've ever shoved root ginger up my ass, so I was unaware of that, but I bow to your greater knowledge!

that knowlege does not come from experience...just something i read

robinph · 27-03-2008 12:30AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Is there any evidence that women wearing revealing clothes are most at risk from rapists?

In that if they are wearing revealing clothes then they are more likely to be heading somewhere to get drunk then maybe, otherwise I doubt that clothes would be shown to have anything to do with it. Certain situations must show in "statistics" somewhere as being more risky though, and it's the minimising risks from that which can be done.

There will always be bad people out there, but you can reduce your chances of encountering them.

Lockstep · 27-03-2008 12:33AM

In the case of paedophilia, surely half the blame must go on the kids for just being so damn sexy?

LZ5by5 wrote: »

[*]We all know there can be alot of bitchiness among females, maybe some resenting others for having the 'means' to be able to dress provocatively.[/LIST]

Seriously...........WTF?

bronte · 27-03-2008 12:34AM

MizzLolly wrote: »

So the clothes a woman wears is the reason she gets raped?

I would've thought it had more to do with the voilent and cruel nature of the attacker...

At the end of the day there has to be something wrong with any man to hurt a woman like this regardless of what clothes the victim wore. That kind of aggression is either there or it isn't.. Simple as!

How many guys on this forum have cast their eyes on a half dressed female on a night out?

Now, how many of them proceeded to attack and rape this female?

I'd say it's more to do with the man who commits rape than his victim to be perfectly honest. Otherwise every girl in a short skirt would've been attacked at some stage. It can't be the clothes that causes it. It has to be the attacker

Agree with this completely.

Ickle Magoo · 27-03-2008 12:39AM

I know what you are saying Robinph, I'm just not comfortable with women having to be uber cautious or face sharing the blame for their attack with their rapist. I agree that women have to be careful because there are a lot of sick people out there but I don't agree with the blame part.

No woman wants to be raped, no woman asks for it. At most it is being too trusting or naive & at worst thoughtless or rash. None of those compare with the crime of holding a woman down & forcing a penis into her, to even try to apportion blame away from the rapist is pretty warped logic in my book.

stovelid · 27-03-2008 12:40AM

Some of the sarcasm is class, but I'm amazed that anybody would assign blame to anybody except the rapist.

Sure, it's dumb to walk home alone locked, or to tease men, but we're talking about rape here - not mugging or assault.

Mordeth's (sarcastic) comment was spot on: should kids be held responsible for being attractive to paedophiles?

What about elderly people who are attacked by rapists a quarter of their age?

randylonghorn · 27-03-2008 12:43AM

Todoquetengo wrote: »

that knowlege does not come from experience...just something i read

You read strange things!

MizzLolly wrote: »

I would've thought it had more to do with the voilent and cruel nature of the attacker...

+1

Many psychologists believe rape has far less to do with sexuality per se than with power / cruelty / domination & degradation of victim.

MizzLolly wrote: »

I'd say it's more to do with the man who commits rape than his victim to be perfectly honest. Otherwise every girl in a short skirt would've been attacked at some stage. It can't be the clothes that causes it. It has to be the attacker

Yep.

If it's the clothes, can someone explain why a 60 year old woman is raped by someone who breaks in to her house?

(EDIT: Snap, Stovelid!)

Rb · 27-03-2008 12:43AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Is there any evidence that women wearing revealing clothes are most at risk from rapists? I thought (I may be completely wrong) that the majority of rapes occur in marriage, in relationships & by friends/relatives. Not to mention the fact that a beautiful sexy woman is that, even when she is in a baggy jumper & jeans...

I agree that risks can be minimised but at some point we have to trust being alone with a man, take the dog for a walk in the park alone, walk on our own to meet up with others & trust that some animal isn't going to attack us. To be made to be somehow to blame for "teasing" men by flirting or dressing "provocatively" just sits all wrong with me. It's suggesting women have to live their lives in fear of the criminal lack of control by some men or be blamed for the consequences.

I think you're right as far as most rapes happen within social or family circles, i.e the victim knew the offender prior to the act.

However, that's not to say that the victims held no responsibility. As I said, it's 100% case dependent and is very, very hard (probably impossible) to generalise.

Say, for example, a boy and a girl are friends. Then out of the blue, she starts sending him "sexy texts" i.e pictures of her naked or scantily clad, describing what she'd like to do with him etc etc . They get together and get all hot and steamy, and then she decides it's not what she wants to do, but he goes ahead. It's rape, sure enough, but it's impossible to say she had absolutely 0% responsibility in it happening. That's just a random example I pulled from the air in case anyone thinks I'm referring to something that happened them by some chance, but it should highlight how it's soo situationally dependent.

A beautiful woman is just that, a beautiful woman. However, there's a difference between a woman having a beautiful face whilst wearing normal clothes, and a beautiful woman in a mini-skirt and a boob revealing top. One is clearly attempting to attract male attention, the other is quite possibly doing so but on a much, much, much smaller scale.

Of course everyone should be able to trust being alone with a man, but if you put yourself in a situation whereby you've both had alcohol and you're alone with a man that you've known for a few hours at most, it again is an entirely different situation and one that precautions should be taken and consequences accepted should something happen, given the fact that you've willingly put yourself in this situation.

Obviously this doesn't apply to people being dragged down lanes and raped though.

Women do not need to live their lives in fear, they just have to take the same precautions as everyone else and think of the consequences of their actions. I'm a guy, however if I were to go out wearing a nazi outfit and saluting every immigrant I meet, I've put myself in a situation whereby it's a lot more likely harm will be done to me than had I just went out dressed normally.

Sorry if I'm not explaining my thoughts on this too well, it's just a very tricky subject to tackle and one has to be very careful as to how they express their opinions so it's not taken out of context or cause uproar.

Rb · 27-03-2008 12:45AM

kickoutthejams wrote: »

In the case of paedophilia, surely half the blame must go on the kids for just being so damn sexy?

Seriously...........WTF?

Erm, you're only 80 posts late with that one

MizzLolly · 27-03-2008 12:50AM

randylonghorn wrote: »

Many psychologists believe rape has far less to do with sexuality per se than with power / cruelty / domination & degradation of victim

Spot on! I actually had to study this in psychology last year. Our case study was on Ted Bundy. Even for his pornographic preferences, he loved watching scenes where women were not only dominated but also degraded and tortured.

Most of the time a rape has very little to do with sex. The attackers are sadistic and they simply vent it out on a vulnerable victim

Lockstep · 27-03-2008 12:52AM

rb_ie wrote: »

Erm, you're only 80 posts late with that one

:cool:

Lockstep · 27-03-2008 12:53AM

MizzLolly wrote: »

Spot on! I actually had to study this in psychology last year. Our case study was on Ted Bundy. Even for his pornographic preferences, he loved watching scenes where women were not only dominated but also degraded and tortured.

Most of the time a rape has very little to do with sex. The attackers are sadistic and they simply vent it out on a vulnerable victim

Agreed.

If a guy just wanted sex he could go get a hooker/rentboy.
Rape is more about having domination over someone.

My own opinions: There are no situations where the victim is to blame.
But there are scenarios where the victim isn't completely absolved for the situation coming about.

Over 1/3 of people say a victim of rape is partly responsible if....

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