Grand Slam Sunday

homerjay2005 · 20-03-2008 12:41PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

Shut the hell up with the bitching and get back on topic for crying out loud.

feel better now? you too des? if something p*sses you off, then dont bother readin or start you own thread. this is a united v liverpool thread and this is boards.ie, not a propaganda website. this, more than any other side and any other topic tends to drift off line now and then, you should be used to this by now. no need for the childish comments. end of discussion, thank you.

anyway, hope uniteds injuries concerns are free for sunday, we dont want any unnecessary advantages for the scousers do we

?

ditpoker · 20-03-2008 12:48PM

IrishMike wrote: »

The fact that he is 4th choice CB behind Carragher, Skrtel and Agger
makes your statement seem very well thought out and intelligent:rolleyes:
He has played so much due to the fact that Agger has been out for most
of the season.

whenever i watch liverpool he's playing, whether pool have 2 cb's injured is a nothing point, hyppia plays... he's past it... if 2 cb's are injured, bring in a better one.

Super point very well made and i especially like how there is no smugness
and how you back up all your points such as saying that VDS, carrick and
giggs would make any team wanting to win the league :rolleyes:
Well done, im eagerly awaiting your next post.

no smugness, i'm not a united fan, i dont even much like united.
vds: incredibly consistent international goalkeeper with more experience than pretty much everyone and has done it at the highest level for years... proven winner.
vidic: generally accepted as a great buy, one of ferguson's best, scores goals and is a bit of a beast. One of the best in the premiership by far.
ferdinand: people pay big money for him cos he's a big player. i dont like him but can see he's one of the best.
evra: best left back in the premiership, a quality buy, has done it for france and at club level. bags of experience too, has won leagues and will probably win alot more.
hargreaves: played centre mid for german champions consistantly for years. got into england squad on merit, and in his own words is "actually quite good at football, whether the british press like [him] or not"
carrick: ferguson said he was brought in to win the league, done and done. 18m well spent. one of the most underated players in the premiership in my opinion. ooozes class.
tevez: single handedly kept west ham up, has been a game winner for united on number of occasions, has done well for argentina for a few years and was a hero when playing in argentina.
ronaldo: we all know he's class.
rooney: we all know he;s class.
scholes: again, we all know he's class.
giggs: are you really going to tell me ryan giggs is not good enough to win leagues... you do know who giggs is right!?

there, covered everyone i mentioned... liverpool still are not as good as united. therefore, in my opinion, united will win.

homerjay2005 · 20-03-2008 12:51PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

Super point very well made and i especially like how there is no smugness
and how you back up all your points such as saying that VDS, carrick and
giggs would make any team wanting to win the league :rolleyes:
Well done, im eagerly awaiting your next post.

oh the great rolleyes, the single most clear sign of weakness on public forums. i limit my usage of these to 2 times a year and im resting my temptation to use them now, however i wont.

i like the way you took out 8 of the 11 players that he listed and focus on 3. your saying carrick, vds and giggs are not vital to winning a league? all 3 were outstanding last year in united winning the league. there is no debating that. your twisting his words ere to suit yourself. giggs has won 9 leagues, his form is pootr, but lets look at the overall picture here. who would you want on the last day of the season in your team to win you a league? giggs or babbel? giggs, cos he has been there done that. reina or van der sar,van der sar everytime for me. would i drop carrick for any player in the liverpool team in his position? on i wouldn. cos these boys know how to win leagues. no liverpool player has a league medal in his pocket, thats the difference and that is what he is pointing out. . cups can be sheer luck and nothing else, but the league table never lies.

LuckyLloyd · 20-03-2008 12:51PM

Draw

Jeff, you're an annoying troll most of the time. But you are right when you say that Utd have the better team. It pains me to say it - but I fully expect Utd to stomp on us at the weekend.

_blank_ · 20-03-2008 12:56PM

Draw

All this crap comparing of teams, is nothing more than willy waving bullshít.

The proof of the "best team" will come on Sunday, and more importantly, in May.

The best team will win the league. The second best team will come second. The third best team will come third. The fourth best will come fourth. And so on.

ditpoker · 20-03-2008 12:59PM

DesF wrote: »

The best team will win the league. The second best team will come second. The third best team will come third. The fourth best will come fourth. And so on.

and spurs will come 11th!

IrishMike · 20-03-2008 02:33PM

Chelsea

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i like the way you took out 8 of the 11 players that he listed and focus on 3. your saying carrick, vds and giggs are not vital to winning a league?

I didnt say that, i was disagreeing with the statement that they would
make any title challenging team, they most certainly would not.
They would be squad players in any of the other top 3 as would some
of the other players mentioned.

all 3 were outstanding last year in united winning the league. there is no debating that. your twisting his words ere to suit yourself. giggs has won 9 leagues, his form is pootr, but lets look at the overall picture here. who would you want on the last day of the season in your team to win you a league? giggs or babbel? giggs, cos he has been there done that.

Kevin Philips won the European golden boot a few years back as did Micheal Owen
good for them, neither would be any help now to a team with title aspirations would they?

reina or van der sar,van der sar everytime for me. would i drop carrick for any player in the liverpool team in his position? on i wouldn. cos these boys know how to win leagues. no liverpool player has a league medal in his pocket, thats the difference and that is what he is pointing out. . cups can be sheer luck and nothing else, but the league table never lies.

You say VDS is better than Reina, good for you. Thats personal taste rather
than anything else. Reina has won the keeper of the year award 2 years running and
is in line for a 3rd so the stats would really back that view up

To say you wouldnt drop Carrick for any liverpool midfielder is shocking.
At this point he is probably 4th choice at United in central midfield.
Also to say none of the Liverpool players have a title medal and are just lucky is nuts,
are you telling me the likes of Gerrard and Torres would not be in the United
team because they dont have league medals?

Oh and sometimes the table does lie, just ask leeds or juventus

lordgoat · 20-03-2008 02:35PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

I
To say none of the Liverpool players have a title medal is laughable,

Which ones have title medals so? Just to prove your point?

Spud83 · 20-03-2008 02:43PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

To say you wouldnt drop Carrick for any liverpool midfielder is shocking.At this point he is probably 4th choice at United in central midfield.

Wrong he his first choice that is why he was rested last night, so he is fresh for Saturday. 23 League outings, 8 appearances in Europe. So he has been involved in all the Europe games. Not bad for fourth choice. Maybe you should do your homework.

Would I take Carrick over Lucas/Alonso/Masch, yes I would. Lucas hasn't impressed me at all, Alonso has been crap for over a year now, and IMO Carrick offers more all round play then Masch.

I dont count Gerrard as a central midfielder he is an attacking midfield, and does not work consistently well in 2 man central midfield. Therefore would not suit Utd, therefore I wouldn't have in my team.

I'll take Torres if ya dont want him anymore though.:D

IrishMike wrote: »

You say VDS is better than Reina, good for you. Thats personal taste rather
than anything else. Reina has won the keeper of the year award 2 years running and
is in line for a 3rd so the stats would really back that view up

Could have sworn VDS was the goalkeeper in the PFA team of the year last year, and it was Shay Given the year before. What award are you talking about?

homerjay2005 · 20-03-2008 02:44PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

are you telling me the likes of Gerrard and Torres would not be in the United
team because they dont have league medals?

Oh and sometimes the table does lie, just ask leeds or juventus

nice the way you put up some stuff and then removed it and added in different before allowing people to get a chance to reply, kuckily enough i just managed to read your comments before u edited. as re your comment about making you laugh, im the one laughing man, not you. if u think that liverpool, chelsea and arsenal would leave a player like giggs on the bench, then you really do need to start watching more football. they dont have a top class left winger, end of story. and bar chelsea, van der sar would comfortably replace who ever was in competition with him. i would not swap carrick for say alonso or lucas, that is my opinion, nothing shocking about that. the league medals statement is one of the most crazy ones i have seen here in a while.

PHB · 20-03-2008 02:46PM

Chelsea

I think Mascherano and Lucas won some Brazilian league medals. Also I'd say Kuyt has a Dutch league medal on him.

IrishMike · 20-03-2008 02:49PM

Chelsea

lordgoat wrote: »

Which ones have title medals so? Just to prove your point?

Homerjay said having a league medal was "the difference" as he put it
I simply said that having a league medal doesnt validate a great players career.
So to say its the difference is pure crap.
Traore has a champions league medal, veron has a premiership medal.
Both were woeful in the premiership.

IrishMike · 20-03-2008 02:54PM

Chelsea

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Could have sworn VDS was the goalkeeper in the PFA team of the year last year, and it was Shay Given the year before. What award are you talking about?

Golden gloves 2 years in a row.

IrishMike · 20-03-2008 02:58PM

Chelsea

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nice the way you put up some stuff and then removed it and added in different before allowing people to get a chance to reply, kuckily enough i just managed to read your comments before u edited.

? I didnt remove it i edited it because it was full of typos.
What on earth is wrong with that may i ask?

as re your comment about making you laugh, im the one laughing man, not you. if u think that liverpool, chelsea and arsenal would leave a player like giggs on the bench, then you really do need to start watching more football. they dont have a top class left winger, end of story.

No they dont, but then again giggs is not a top class left winger either.
He was, viera was top class, figo was top class but none of them are now.

and bar chelsea, van der sar would comfortably replace who ever was in competition with him.

Thats a matter of opinion, one which i along with lots of other people
definitely do not share.

i would not swap carrick for say alonso or lucas, that is my opinion, nothing shocking about that. the league medals statement is one of the most crazy ones i have seen here in a while.

Good for you, carrick as been widely derided on this forum and others by
even united fans for being a flop.
£18m i think not

homerjay2005 · 20-03-2008 03:11PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

? I didnt remove it i edited it because it was full of typos.
What on earth is wrong with that may i ask?

No they dont, but then again giggs is not a top class left winger either.
He was, viera was top class, figo was top class but none of them are now.

Thats a matter of opinion, one which i along with lots of other people
definitely do not share.

Good for you, carrick as been widely derided on this forum and others by
even united fans for being a flop.
£18m i think not

im just going to stop responding now cos you just keep coming out with classics. id be here for an hour responding to all the wrongness in this post. feel free to keep posting, work is busy and i need a laugh from time to time. cheers.

Tusky · 20-03-2008 03:11PM

Jesus. Some of the tripe being posting in this thread is beyond beleif. In fairness, any reasonable Liverpool fan will agree that Utd have a better squad. Theyve got a great back four, VDS is class, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez are all great players. Scholes, while past his best, is still top class. Anderson and Nani look like great talents.

But why cant Utd fans accept that Liverpool have some decent players as well ? Saying you would take Carrick over Mascherano & Alonso is just idiotic.

Reina, Carragher, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard & Torres are all great players. I fully expect Babel, Lucas & Skrtel to be great players for Liverpool in time as well.

Oh, and saying that Reina, Carra, Gerrard, Mash & Torres are the only players capiable of being in a title winning side is crazy stupid. Its looking like utd will probably win the league this year. Brown, Fletcher, Carrick, Saha, Giggs, O Shea & Nani would hardly be considered top class but every single player in your squad cant be top class.

Bottom line is, both teams have quality squads. Utd have more quality in theirs but that doesnt mean Liverpool have a **** squad.

lordgoat · 20-03-2008 03:15PM

Draw

IrishMike wrote: »

Homerjay said having a league medal was "the difference" as he put it
I simply said that having a league medal doesnt validate a great players career.
So to say its the difference is pure crap.
Traore has a champions league medal, veron has a premiership medal.
Both were woeful in the premiership.

I think his point was they have the experience of winning a league and at this time of year going into pressure games it is a huge advantage having players that have done it all before.

PHB · 20-03-2008 03:20PM

Chelsea

Bottom line is, both teams have quality squads. Utd have more quality in theirs but that doesnt mean Liverpool have a **** squad.

True, but I think some of Liverpools players are just overrated.

Alonso was great in his first season, but Carrick was the better midfielder last year, and this year, both have been averageish to good. People remember the Alonso of old, not the current Alonso.

I think Hargreaves and Mascherano are pretty similar, cept that I think in the long run Mascherano can be a better player.

I don't think Agger is up there yet, and I think Carragher is a dodgy player unless he plays next to the right player. I think Liverpools defence in full back positions is weak, and I think the fact that they are as a whole more defensive as a team has kinda hidden this fact. If Liverpool shift to the attacking mindset, your defense gets exposed. This is what happened at the start of the season, and happens whenever Liverpool switched.
I think its largely down to a lack of pace to be honest. Infact, I think Liverpools defence as a whole is overrated.

That said, when you have players like Gerrard and Torres, any match is winnable. Liverpools spine is extremely solid, their weakness is on the sides, and that's where I think they fall down. I think its no surprise that the matches they are best at are tight tight games with not much space, because it puts more focus on their midfield.

What the United game will be like I'm not sure.

RasTa · 20-03-2008 03:23PM

Draw

I see the usual nonsense is going on in here then.

Carrick was pretty bad the past two seasons but he has being arguably our best midfielder whilst playing this season.

I'd take Gerrard and Torres in our side at any time

Finally we are 11 points clear from the Pool so we are the better team this season.

Roll on Sunday, I'll be there!

PHB · 20-03-2008 03:27PM

Chelsea

I think Arsenal are gona beat Chelsea, making this a clear 2 horse race if United can win.

_blank_ · 20-03-2008 03:29PM

Draw

Every option can be picked in the poll.

I think Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United will win, and the two matches will be a draw.

Peyton Manning · 20-03-2008 03:29PM

Draw

DesF wrote: »

Every option can be picked in the poll.

I think Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United will win, and the two matches will be a draw.

Nice, we'll get 4 points out of this one! But if Liverpool win then we get zero aswell.......so thats 4........plus 0............

40 points, excellent!

PHB · 20-03-2008 03:31PM

Chelsea

You have multiple choices in order to vote on the two matches.

Tusky · 20-03-2008 03:33PM

PHB wrote: »

True, but I think some of Liverpools players are just overrated.

Alonso was great in his first season, but Carrick was the better midfielder last year, and this year, both have been averageish to good. People remember the Alonso of old, not the current Alonso.

I think Hargreaves and Mascherano are pretty similar, cept that I think in the long run Mascherano can be a better player.

I don't think Agger is up there yet, and I think Carragher is a dodgy player unless he plays next to the right player. I think Liverpools defence in full back positions is weak, and I think the fact that they are as a whole more defensive as a team has kinda hidden this fact. If Liverpool shift to the attacking mindset, your defense gets exposed. This is what happened at the start of the season, and happens whenever Liverpool switched.
I think its largely down to a lack of pace to be honest. Infact, I think Liverpools defence as a whole is overrated.

That said, when you have players like Gerrard and Torres, any match is winnable. Liverpools spine is extremely solid, their weakness is on the sides, and that's where I think they fall down. I think its no surprise that the matches they are best at are tight tight games with not much space, because it puts more focus on their midfield.

What the United game will be like I'm not sure.

I agree. Liverpools weaknesses are definitely along the flanks, specially in full back positions. However, Liverpool have only conceded 21 goals this season and lost 3 games. Thats the second best defensive record in the league in terms of games lost and goals conceded. So what I'm saying is, the defense obviously isn't as weak as you or others on this board may think. If Agger was fit, I think the defense would have been even tighter.

You may say this is because they play defensive football but Liverpool have scored 55 goals in the league, only 6 less than utd, 3 less than Arsenal and more than Chelsea. In all comps Liverpool have scored more any anyone in the league.

Most Liverpool fans over-rate their own players, its only natural. However, most Man U fans under-rate Liverpools players. Thats my point. The truth is somewhere in between.

IrishMike · 20-03-2008 03:53PM

Chelsea

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im just going to stop responding now cos you just keep coming out with classics. id be here for an hour responding to all the wrongness in this post. feel free to keep posting, work is busy and i need a laugh from time to time. cheers.

Nice capitulation.

Bubs101 · 20-03-2008 04:13PM

Draw

Really can't see anything other than a victory for us. Our home form is insatiable and Arsenal have been doing fairly badly recently. Also think pool will do us a favour but by think I mean hope

whatawaster · 20-03-2008 04:14PM

Mascherano has been absolutely immense all season. I think he has far more to him than Hargreaves. Similarly i think Alonso, while he's been inconsistent, has more to his game than Carrick. As well as being imo a better passer, he works very well in tight situations, hassles opponents well and works a lot harder.

I think Reina is top goalkeeper, as good as any in the premiership. Arbeloa is a good, though not great player. Carragher is a great defender. Agger is in my opinion our best defender, not just for his defending, but also for how he brings the ball from defense. Skrtel has looked very good. I think he and Agger could well be the future for us. We desperately need a new left back, or else we need Insua to make the step up next season (i'm convinced he can). We also need a new right back (Rafinha?)

We obviously need at least one new winger, though i think Babel will be better next season and a Torres-lite as backup. Preferrably someone young and cheap. I really like the formation we are using at the moment.

For Sunday:

Reina

Arbeloa

Carragher

Strtel

Aurelio

Mascherano

Alonso

Kuyt

Gerrard

Babel

Torres

ibh · 20-03-2008 04:35PM

Bubs101 wrote: »

Really can't see anything other than a victory for us. Our home form is insatiable and Arsenal have been doing fairly badly recently. Also think pool will do us a favour but by think I mean hope

what sort of favour?? Do you think they should just not show up?? I don't see how Arsenal playing badly affects UTD vs Pool???

Spud83 · 20-03-2008 04:52PM

Draw

ibh wrote: »

what sort of favour?? Do you think they should just not show up?? I don't see how Arsenal playing badly affects UTD vs Pool???

Look at the poll, which includes the results for all the games.

He was talking about Chelsea beating Arsenal and Liverpool doing chelsea a favour by beating Utd.

emc2 · 20-03-2008 04:53PM

Chelsea

DesF wrote: »

Every option can be picked in the poll.

I think Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United will win, and the two matches will be a draw.

Yea Zabbo has backed every possible result so he's on a winner for sure!

Grand Slam Sunday

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