Grand Slam Sunday

Brethitmanhart · 19-03-2008 12:17PM

Finnan would easily beat Neville on head to head. Finnan is a much better player. One of the most underrated in the premiership.

United win the clear ones is it?
Ferdinand v. Carra is clear, considering that Rio makes so many mistakes.
Agger should be in, and in which case you would actually be pitting Agger v. Rio, Carra v. Vidic (footballing defender v. footballing defender), and Agger thrashes Rio. Skrtel could be in for Hyypia and is alot closer to Vidic than Sami (Sami's a legend but just too old)

Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard win comfortably too.

Reina hammers VDS.
Torres does clearly beat Rooney, as does Ronaldo clearly beat Kuyt.

----
BTW, I am saying that Agger should be in if not inured, like said about Finnan v. Neville.

cournioni · 19-03-2008 12:20PM

Arsenal

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Finnan would easily beat Neville on head to head. Finnan is a much better player. One of the most underrated in the premiership.

United win the clear ones is it?
Ferdinand v. Carra is clear, considering that Rio makes so many mistakes.
Agger should be in, and in which case you would actually be pitting Agger v. Rio, Carra v. Vidic (footballing defender v. footballing defender), and Agger thrashes Rio. Skrtel could be in for Hyypia and is alot closer to Vidic than Sami (Sami's a legend but just too old)

Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard win comfortably too.

Reina hammers VDS.
Torres does clearly beat Rooney, as does Ronaldo clearly beat Kuyt.

Jesus, I'm really scared now... We are clearly going to be outclassed by a better team.

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2008 12:22PM

Draw

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Finnan would easily beat Neville on head to head. Finnan is a much better player. One of the most underrated in the premiership.

United win the clear ones is it?
Ferdinand v. Carra is clear, considering that Rio makes so many mistakes.
Agger should be in, and in which case you would actually be pitting Agger v. Rio, Carra v. Vidic (footballing defender v. footballing defender), and Agger thrashes Rio. Skrtel could be in for Hyypia and is alot closer to Vidic than Sami (Sami's a legend but just too old)

Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard win comfortably too.

Reina hammers VDS.
Torres does clearly beat Rooney, as does Ronaldo clearly beat Kuyt.

:eek::eek::eek::eek: are you serious? really like, are you?

on that basis so, why are united 8 points clear of liverpool with a game in hand? if liverpool are so much better, then why are you not 8 points clear instead? as for finnan, if both players are fully fit, neville is streets ahead. neville is the best RB in the premiership for the past 15 year. his honours speak for themselves.

by the way, has the standard dropped in getting in here? there has been some crazy posts this week from "newbies".

PHB · 19-03-2008 12:26PM

Chelsea

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Finnan would easily beat Neville on head to head. Finnan is a much better player. One of the most underrated in the premiership.

United win the clear ones is it?
Ferdinand v. Carra is clear, considering that Rio makes so many mistakes.
Agger should be in, and in which case you would actually be pitting Agger v. Rio, Carra v. Vidic (footballing defender v. footballing defender), and Agger thrashes Rio. Skrtel could be in for Hyypia and is alot closer to Vidic than Sami (Sami's a legend but just too old)

Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard win comfortably too.

Reina hammers VDS.
Torres does clearly beat Rooney, as does Ronaldo clearly beat Kuyt.

----
BTW, I am saying that Agger should be in if not inured, like said about Finnan v. Neville.

Wow, what's amazing then is that United are so far in front of Liverpool. Infact, I'm right in saying that the only players United have that are better under that first 11 are Ronaldo compared to your winger, and Evra? Fergie must be some manager getting those players to play like that.
Or It's as if your classification of players is completely and utterly wrong

Or else Rafa is just a terrible manager who can't get the best out of a team of amazing players.

zAbbo · 19-03-2008 12:28PM

Draw

We can have all the willy waving in the world, but the proof will be on Sunday.

I'd say Utd are more concerned with the Bolton game tonight.

I think United can afford to draw or even lose to Liverpool (obviously they'll want a win), I think Chelsea will take Arsenal as well.

But who knows

Brethitmanhart · 19-03-2008 12:31PM

I didn't say every player was better, Its still close player to player.
Liverpool have a much better midfield. simple as that. But Liverpool have had alot of disrupting problems this season.
Aggers injury one of the biggest. Alonso and Torres have both been out for a nice portion of the season. While Liverpools main problems with depth lie at centre back and strikers. (Skrtel now bought to fill that CB void).

Apart from injuries like that, you have your Owner problems, Liverpool were flying in the league early and doing well until October/November.

You might say, oh but injuries are injuries, well Agger is massive to Liverpool and he would have been the difference in many draws which should have been victories. Take Rooney out of Uniteds team through injury, all bar 1 of Uniteds losses have been without Rooney.

No I didn't say only Ronaldo and Evra, Vidic and an extremely close battle between Rio and Carra aswell, also Tevez on form beats Babel.
But United have more depth in certain areas, whereas Liverpool have lost vital players at bad times (Agger all season, Torres)

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2008 12:34PM

Draw

LuckyCharms wrote: »

I'd almost tolerate a loss on sunday if we beat them in the Cl final
GGMU

no buddy,no. u not understand? this is united v liverpool, nobody cares about the last game or the next game. this is 90 minutes of hatred and passion. this game is all about winning. if we lose this on sunday, i will be gutted and most united fans will be. liverpool fans will be the same im sure. there is no such things as "this game does not matter". it f**kin does, end of story, infact, i would nearly say that next sunday, is the biggest day of the season so far. who ever wins the league title,will look back on next sunday as they day they won it. both teams may not get past the next round of the CL. lets forget about that. Once the whistle goes against bolton tonight, its 100% focus on sunday, defeat is not an option.

event · 19-03-2008 12:36PM

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

Agger thrashes Rio

:rolleyes:

oh for gods sake

homerjay2005 · 19-03-2008 12:40PM

Draw

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

I didn't say every player was better, Its still close player to player.
Liverpool have a much better midfield. simple as that. But Liverpool have had alot of disrupting problems this season.
Aggers injury one of the biggest. Alonso and Torres have both been out for a nice portion of the season. While Liverpools main problems with depth lie at centre back and strikers. (Skrtel now bought to fill that CB void).

Apart from injuries like that, you have your Owner problems, Liverpool were flying in the league early and doing well until October/November.

You might say, oh but injuries are injuries, well Agger is massive to Liverpool and he would have been the difference in many draws which should have been victories. Take Rooney out of Uniteds team through injury, all bar 1 of Uniteds losses have been without Rooney.

alot of excuses there, its the same every year. united have had injuries too.bue we brought in the right players this year to cover it.

can der sar - has missed over 10 games.
neville out all year (no cover at RB now and CB as a result of browne playing)
silvestre out all year (not been able to rest evra)
hargreaves - constant niggly injuries
Scholes - 4 months, and he is not the same player since
saha - saha
rooney - has been injured 3 times for a month each time

owner problems are your own fault. and i dont get your point about rooney? i already said this above. and torres aint exactly missed many games either.

ibh · 19-03-2008 12:44PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

gerrard v rooney - even

the mascherano and alonso v carrick/scholes and hargreaves is a matter of personal opinion. you cannot say and be correct that either party is better. personally i would not swap uniteds midfield at the moment as its the strongest we have had in 9 years.

Not really good enough to put Gerrard vs Rooney and then say even.. Personally i would take Gerrard. Out of all the head to heads they are probably the least similar going against each other. I would have been inclined to pit Gerrard against Scholes, with a clear winner in it and Rooney against Babel (again a clear winner..) even though they technically don't play the same role.

Of course the mascherano-alonso vs hargreaves-carrick/scholes is a matter of opinion. I think if the team lined up like for like with 2 holding m/f's, one a more destructive tackler and the other a more constructive passer then most people, pool fans and neutrals anyway would plump for Masch-Alonso ahead of Harg'-Carrick. I don't consider Scholes to be a defensive MF so i wouldn't include him in this area.

I also agree it is the strongest MF for years for MU but i don't think it has a patch on previous teams. I think it is still the weakest area of the MU team.

I disagree with anyone who would have Arbeloa ahead of Brown. Brown's had a good season and would get the nod, so pretty much a MU back 4. Although you would have to question how many teams would leave Carra out.

Unearthly · 19-03-2008 01:31PM

Draw

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

)and Agger thrashes Rio.

just after choking

somone call for an ambulance

Tusky · 19-03-2008 02:00PM

All this comparing of teams is silly. The fact is, Utd have been better than Liverpool this season and for the any season in recent memory. I think the utd side at the moment is really strong (although its missing a good right back, left winger and striker) and is a bit better than the Liverpool first XI. However, the gap between the two is probably at the closest it has been in years.

There isnt a massive difference in quality between the two sides. Utd benefit hugely from having a manager in place that knows the premiership inside and out. Someone that has the team playing his style of football continuously for a couple decades.

Saying that only two Liverpool players would get into the Utd side is just as silly as saying 7 Liverpool players would get into the Utd side. Realistically, it would be somewhere in the middle.

walshki · 19-03-2008 02:05PM

Draw

I actually think directly comparing players is meaningless for these matches. I'm a pool fan but I acknowledge that united have the edge overall. However, in recent times the games have been crap and many players have badly underperformed. E.g. no point in talking about Ronaldo and Torres as both were crap at Anfield.

Likely to be a crap but tense game and a draw quite likely.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 19-03-2008 02:16PM

Chelsea

Ahhh ya gotta love a good old fashioned Man U Liverpool thread. There's a certain traditional progression to it that boards wouldn't be the same without

cournioni · 19-03-2008 02:28PM

Arsenal

ibh wrote: »

Of course the mascherano-alonso vs hargreaves-carrick/scholes is a matter of opinion. I think if the team lined up like for like with 2 holding m/f's, one a more destructive tackler and the other a more constructive passer then most people, pool fans and neutrals anyway would plump for Masch-Alonso ahead of Harg'-Carrick. I don't consider Scholes to be a defensive MF so i wouldn't include him in this area.

I also agree it is the strongest MF for years for MU but i don't think it has a patch on previous teams. I think it is still the weakest area of the MU team.

Aren't you forgetting one of United's best players this season in Anderson?! I'd personally take him above any of the Liverpool midfielders. His performance at Anfailed being just one example of why he's better than Gerrard or Mascherano.

Mascherano is no better nor worse than any other holding midfield player, be it Hargreaves or Makalele, he's a work horse, no more no less. I would put him down as equal to Hargreaves in this case. As for Alonso, well I think I can raise you with a Scholes on that one...

Carrick gets an honorable mention.

Lister1 · 19-03-2008 02:30PM

Draw

homerjay2005 wrote: »

2 - go see him play live. the workrate off the ball of him is amazing. he is alot more than a goalscorer.

Hehe, could say the same thing about Kuyt! Instead of playing up front and missing a hatfull of chances he's now being playing out on the wing and has created plenty of assists recently. I think his work rate is better suited to his current position rather then up front where he never seemed to be in the right place due to all the tracking back that he does. Currently playing in the same position for Holland I believe. On recent form he is a danger that shouldn't be dismissed...

The Insider · 19-03-2008 02:38PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting one of United's best players this season in Anderson?! I'd personally take him above any of the Liverpool midfielders. His performance at Anfailed being just one example of why he's better than Gerrard or Mascherano.

:rolleyes:

Better then Gerrard based on one performance... your having a laugh right? I know we are all biased in here but you can't honestly believe that.

Tusky · 19-03-2008 02:38PM

So much wrong with this post.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting one of United's best players this season in Anderson?! I'd personally take him above any of the Liverpool midfielders.

Better than all of the Liverpool midfielders ? wow. Man U tinted glasses there mate. Theres no doubt that he is a very good player and will most likely develop into a great player for Utd but that is such a silly statement. Anderson has 0 goals and a couple of assists from 30 odd apperances. Theres no doubt he was a great buy but your statement is really rather silly.

His performance at Anfailed being just one example of why he's better than Gerrard or Mascherano.

Calling Anfield Anfailed just proves that you are not up to a reasonable, logical debate. You are always going to see things in a pro utd way.

Mascherano is no better nor worse than any other holding midfield player,
.

Err...so all holding midfielders are completely equal in quality ? That is a ridiculous thing to say. I am of the opinion that he is far better than Hargreaves anyway.

PiE · 19-03-2008 03:04PM

Chelsea

Tusky wrote: »

Calling Anfield Anfailed just proves that you are not up to a reasonable, logical debate.

Are you really expecting a reasoned, logical debate with someone called 'PORNAPSTER'? Really?

Score draw at Old Trafford with an away win at Stamford Bridge would do me.

Tusky · 19-03-2008 03:05PM

PiE wrote: »

Are you really expecting a reasoned, logical debate with someone called 'PORNAPSTER'? Really?

Score draw at Old Trafford with an away win at Stamford Bridge would do me.

bahaha. I actually didnt even notice his user name.

IrishMike · 19-03-2008 03:14PM

Chelsea

Tusky wrote: »

Err...so all holding midfielders are completely equal in quality ? That is a ridiculous thing to say. I am of the opinion that he is far better than Hargreaves anyway.

He is almost the complete defensive midfielder at 23.
Defensive hub of the Argentian team.
Makelele on his day is still a better player but Mascherano is about as good
as there is in the world today in his position.
To say Anderson who has not even played 20 games for United is better than
him is a bit of a stretch to say the least.
He is hugely talented but ronaldo after 20 games wasnt the best winger in the
world, he had huge potential but took 2 years to realise it.
Anderson will be the same.
Wenger said that its not Fabregas undoubted talent that makes him world
class, its the fact that he can play at 95% in every game whereas others
with similiar talent can only do it every 2-3 games.
Anderson is undoubtedly hugely talented but he has gone missing in games.
Mascherano is normally Liverpools best player every game

whatawaster · 19-03-2008 03:16PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting one of United's best players this season in Anderson?! I'd personally take him above any of the Liverpool midfielders. His performance at Anfailed being just one example of why he's better than Gerrard or Mascherano.

Mascherano is no better nor worse than any other holding midfield player, be it Hargreaves or Makalele, he's a work horse, no more no less. I would put him down as equal to Hargreaves in this case. As for Alonso, well I think I can raise you with a Scholes on that one... Carrick gets an honorable mention.

So much to be ridiculed about this post. At the moment, if we had Anderson, Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano as our midfielders, then Anderson, much like Lucas, would be fourth choice. I think he'll be a terrific player though.

Mascerhano has been absolutely immense all season - his workrate, tackling and even his passing have been very good, as well as his eye for goal!

gracehopper · 19-03-2008 03:16PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

gerrard v rooney - even

Do you think so? I dont think they're close at all. Rooney is a far superior player

whatawaster · 19-03-2008 03:25PM

gracehopper wrote: »

Do you think so? I dont think they're close at all. Rooney is a far superior player

No, no, no. if anyone is superior it's Gerrard. There's probably nobody else in the world who can be relied upon to single-handedly pull a team from a deperate situation to a winning one (*******kos, FA Cup final). Gerrard has scored more, created more and played better than rooney all season. Rooney is a wonderful talent, and a great player, but it's ridiculous to say he is far superior to Gerrard, who has proved his class on the biggest stages far more than Rooney has, often, unfortunately, having to carry along a lot of average players with him.

FatherTed · 19-03-2008 03:28PM

Some comical posts on here I must say.... I dont know why people are comparing Rooney to Gerrard when they dont play the same positions. If anything, Rooney has been played out of position most of this year due to lack of a target man(Saha injuries) and not in his proper position as a support striker.

In any case, it is pointless to compare player with player. If football was an individual one on one game then we should do that. But football is a TEAM game. The sum of the individuals does not equal the sum of team.

Stop this nonsense now!

As a whole, Man Utd is a very flexible/fluid team as they are able to move players and change formations easily. Liverpool is certainly on a great run right now and their recent switching of Gerrard(playing closer to Torres) and the form of Torres are the big factors. The problem with Liverpool is if one or both of them have a bad game or are contained, then Liverpool doesnt have much else to offer. As I said before the last game at Anfield, it will come down to whether Man Utd can contain Torres. If they can they will come out on top, but that is a very big question.

ibh · 19-03-2008 03:31PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Aren't you forgetting one of United's best players this season in Anderson?! I'd personally take him above any of the Liverpool midfielders. His performance at Anfailed being just one example of why he's better than Gerrard or Mascherano.

Mascherano is no better nor worse than any other holding midfield player, be it Hargreaves or Makalele, he's a work horse, no more no less. I would put him down as equal to Hargreaves in this case. As for Alonso, well I think I can raise you with a Scholes on that one... Carrick gets an honorable mention.

Are you having a laugh?? Is he having a laugh???

WTF planet have you been on..? I fail to see how Mascherano is no better than Makelale and Hargreaves. He is not a work horse, he is a defensive MF. There is a big difference. I would class Kuyt as a workhorse. He makes up for a lack of talent with a high workrate.
Don't think you read my post cause i said that i wouldn't class Scholes as the same type of MF as Alonso. Carrick probably just about ddeserves an honourable mention, but no more than that.

IrishMike · 19-03-2008 03:32PM

Chelsea

FatherTed wrote: »

The problem with Liverpool is if one or both of them have a bad game or are contained, then Liverpool doesnt have much else to offer. As I said before the last game at Anfield, it will come down to whether Man Utd can contain Torres.

Ok Eamonn Dunphy

The problem with United is that if Rooney and Ronaldo have a poor game
then United dont have much to offer.
Stupid argument.
Every team relies on its best players and goalscorers.

FatherTed · 19-03-2008 03:40PM

IrishMike wrote: »

Ok Eamonn Dunphy
The problem with United is that if Rooney and Ronaldo have a poor game
then United dont have much to offer.
Stupid argument.
Every team relies on its best players and goalscorers.

Man Utd can also count on Tevez and Saha who are proven match winners.

Tusky · 19-03-2008 03:42PM

FatherTed wrote: »

Man Utd can also count on Tevez and Saha who are proven match winners.

League
Liverpool: Goals overall-53. Torres & Gerrard-29 55% of goals scored
ManU: Goals overall-58, Ronaldo & Tevez- 32 55% of goals scored

Ronaldo & Torres have scored again since those stats were calulated.

p.s Saha a proven match winner?!?! Whaaaaaat ?

hamnegg · 19-03-2008 03:44PM

IrishMike wrote: »

Ok Eamonn Dunphy
The problem with United is that if Rooney and Ronaldo have a poor game
then United dont have much to offer.
Stupid argument.
Every team relies on its best players and goalscorers.

Here here! stats below show just how important Ronaldo and Torres are to each team. sunday is a another test to see if Ronaldo shows up for the big game. Torres too I think its fair to say we haven't seen him have the oppertunity in a big game.......yet

Queue the abuse.........

Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United) - Goals 22 Games 25 Points won 13

Fernando Torres (Liverpool) - Gls 20 Gms 27 Pts 11

Emmanuel Adebayor (Arsenal) - Gls 19 Gms 28 Pts 10

Benni McCarthy (Blackburn Rovers) - Gls 8 Gms 26 Pts 10

Roque Santa Cruz (Blackburn Rovers, right) - Gls 12 Gms 29 Pts 9

Benjani (Portsmouth/Manchester City) - Gls 13 Gms 28Pts 9

Robin van Persie (Arsenal) - Gls 5 Gms 10 Pts 8

Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham Hotspur) - Gls 12 Gms 28 Pts 8

David Bentley (Blackburn Rovers) - Gls 6 Gms 29 Pts 8

Dean Ashton (West Ham United) - Gls 6 Gms 24 Pts 8

Grand Slam Sunday

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