First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

imeddyhobbs · 14-03-2008 12:40am

Terry wrote: »

Why didn't they just excavate the area before the road was due to be built?

There is nothing to really find here,there wont be the equivalent to the ardagh chalice found or anything like that,these are monuments and ancient forts,most likely what you see is what you get in this case.

intheknow · 14-03-2008 12:53am

Bleedin nutters, they should be taken out by a sniper, Most I have heard on radio have English accents, Professional protesters, or maybe nothing else to do. They travel the world for a cause, their cause !! Most of them as as mad as...well....me !! exit stage left

darkman2 · 14-03-2008 4:07am

'Squeaks' name is 'Lisa' apparently.......

Lisa! Go to your room!!!!!!!!!

Get her out of the hole she dug for herself please:D

bauderline · 14-03-2008 10:34am

"clink.." "cha-chink.." "whizzzz.." "plummphh.." ...... "FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!"

Mizu_Ger · 14-03-2008 10:46am

lostexpectation wrote: »

as said tara is not just the hill rath lugh is tara

http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/Tara_M3.html

listen to the country expert on tara say that on pat kenny on monday he said the road should never been taken through the skryne valley (streaming audio of interview http://www.savetara.com/Audio/TodayPK031008.html)

The NUI Galway map on that link shows a huge amounts of historical sites in Meath. Most of them are along the route of the motorway. If it was rerouted wouldn't there be more discoveries made on the new digs? I get the feeling that you couldn't stick a shovel in the ground anywhere in Co. Meath without uncovering something.

I think that ireland (compared to other countries) does a fairly good job of archaelogically surveying an area that is earmarked for construction. We can't expect to save everything.

Is it worth saving an area that very few people will know about or want to visit? I don't know the answer to this question, but I'd like to see some kind of poll on it.

bauderline · 14-03-2008 10:59am

Just one more thing... The saving of "20 minutes" argument that is put forward by the Save Tara / Rath Lugh lobby applies to eutopia type road conditions.... These may be experienced on the N3 at about 5.30am on a Sunday morning....

As for peak traffic times which this motorway will provide the most relief for you can roughly count on the following in the evenings....

20-30 minutes delay in Dunshauglin.
20-30 minutes delay through Navan.
15-20 minutes delay through Kells.

So from the above we can see there is often a 55-80 minute delay on this route at peak times. A similar story for going inbound in the mornings plus you can count on long delays (upwards 15 - 20 mins) at the staggered junction at fairyhouse or whatever its called...

If you are making an argument and want people to take you seriously, start be telling the truth and lay off the propaganda....

humanji · 14-03-2008 11:03am

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

The NUI Galway map on that link shows a huge amounts of historical sites in Meath. Most of them are along the route of the motorway. If it was rerouted wouldn't there be more discoveries made on the new digs? I get the feeling that you couldn't stick a shovel in the ground anywhere in Co. Meath without uncovering something.

Well, Squeak dug an entire tunnel and didn't find anything

machiavellianme · 14-03-2008 11:15am

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

The NUI Galway map on that link shows a huge amounts of historical sites in Meath. Most of them are along the route of the motorway. If it was rerouted wouldn't there be more discoveries made on the new digs? I get the feeling that you couldn't stick a shovel in the ground anywhere in Co. Meath without uncovering something.

I think that ireland (compared to other countries) does a fairly good job of archaelogically surveying an area that is earmarked for construction. We can't expect to save everything.

Is it worth saving an area that very few people will know about or want to visit? I don't know the answer to this question, but I'd like to see some kind of poll on it.

Ah here, that road is about as well planned as the M50. Straighten her up for one, or run her down the left along the river. It looks to me like they picked the route with the most sites (not including the Hill itself) and played join the dots. :pac:

In fairness though, look at the amount of Yellow/Green dots found during the planning stages. 43 new sites found because of a road being built. If the road wasnt built would we ever have found them? What happened when previous roads were built in Meath? Did the engineers just keep quiet when they found something?

Access · 14-03-2008 11:33am

I HATE HIPPIES!!!!!!!!!!

Get out of that hole you fool and go and collect your dole!

abccormac · 14-03-2008 11:45am

In fairness though, look at the amount of Yellow/Green dots found during the planning stages. 43 new sites found because of a road being built. If the road wasnt built would we ever have found them? What happened when previous roads were built in Meath? Did the engineers just keep quiet when they found something?

Every road scheme throws up archaeological sites that were previously unknown. These all get excavated and recorded. During the planning process, archaeological sites are one of several considerations taken into account when choosing a route.

The NRA also have to take into account the impact a route has on environmentally sensitive areas, people who live near a particular route and the impact a new road would have on them, the number of houses that need to be demolished to clear the route for the road, engineering issues and all sorts of other considerations.

While archaeological impact is important, and known sites will generally be avoided as much as possible, it is just one aspect of picking a route. When you build miles of new motorway through the countryside you will always impact on archaeological sites.

niallb · 14-03-2008 12:50pm

There may well have been less houses to CPO along this route because of where it is.
In the past, people may have simply been less willing to build their houses on "sacred" ground.

bauderline wrote: »

... snip ...
from the above we can see there is often a 55-80 minute delay on this route at peak times. A similar story for going inbound in the mornings plus you can count on long delays (upwards 15 - 20 mins) at the staggered junction at fairyhouse or whatever its called...
... snip ...

A pretty good estimate, but that's all the more reason to rethink it.
That's up to an 80 minute <i>delay</i> each way on top of the time it takes to drive it.
Kells was talking about a promised bypass in the mid 1960's, and Dunshaughlin was
promised one before the election in 1999, due to be completed by 2003.
These works have been absorbed into the M3, and seemingly nothing will
happen in Meath except as part of this. Noel Dempsey even stated a few weeks ago
that he'd consider putting the contentious high voltage power line also planned for the
county underground, but only if it was done along the current route of the M3!

"Let's build a bigger road" is not the answer. Particularly one that lands all this extra
traffic into the busiest junction already in existence in the country.
This road was planned also without consideration of a rail route.
In Meath railway can be defined as something that is talked about before every election and then forgotten, or at least put forward to a timeframe where it will have nothing to do with the current government.

The M50 WestLink was only supposed to be tolled for 10 years.
Once people started to remember that, it was extended to take account
of the extra traffic now using a motorway to get around within a city, and
the extension works qualified it to continue tolling it seems indefinitely.

It might take 5 years to fill the road, or even 10, but then we're back where we started,
but paying a fortune to get to Dublin, and living our lives in such an exhausted haze
that we can't get it together to do anything about it- like thinking before voting.

Accepting this road as "progress" without question is accepting that the people of Meath
and Cavan along with their kids are expected to work in Dublin for generations.

The underhand timing with which work has often been done on this road is damning.
There have been decisions made a day or two before Christmas with 3 weeks to object.
An outgoing minister has signed papers in case the new minister got it wrong.
This is not a million miles removed from the convoy arriving yesterday morning to
dismantle the camp hours before an injunction hearing which could have stopped work.

If the process had recorded the many objections made over the last eight years,
this might be different, but to deny statements because they were out of context, or to
forbid people who have waited patiently to make such a statement to mention heritage
is not reasonable and distorts the evidence available to those who must make the decisions.
It can only be said that someone is given a fair chance to speak if someone is listening.

I'm glad someone at least is still willing to go "Squeak".

seamus · 14-03-2008 12:58pm

niallb wrote: »

Accepting this road as "progress" without question is accepting that the people of Meath
and Cavan along with their kids are expected to work in Dublin for generations.

It's not about getting people to their jobs quicker. It's about easing the movement between all of the major areas in the country and it's a critical component of decentralisation. We will never convince companies to build their new factories in small towns if that small town only only has a single-lane road to link it to Dublin 100 miles away. If on the other hand, the company can put their trucks on a motorway and have their produce at Dublin Airport or the docks in about 2 hours, then they'll be more eager to locate/relocate to smaller towns.

Far from providing a road for people to get to Dublin, this is providing a road so that people no longer are forced to work in Dublin.

ScumLord · 14-03-2008 1:29pm

seamus wrote: »

Far from providing a road for people to get to Dublin, this is providing a road so that people no longer are forced to work in Dublin.

I don't know about that. Once you get past the end of the m4 there's no development at all. The CC seem to fill there time doing minor or pointless work.

Now in fairness they have been doing allot of cleanup work in my town but if they're past work is anything to go by it'll all fall apart by this time next year.

There seems to be no thought put into anything this government or any of the CC do. It's either to little too late or utterly useless. Fair enough Dublin's come on leaps and bounds (compared to the rest of the country) but your not going to convince anyone outside the pale that these road works do anything other than serve Dublin's needs.

Your sincerely,
Disgruntled bogger.

bauderline · 14-03-2008 1:42pm

niallb,

There is no reason to rethink it. It was needed five years ago and no further delays are required. Lets debunk some of the points often raised about this.

1. Railway lines are a point to point system, Dublin is a big place and the ability of a railway line to deliver a people to their place of work in a manner that is both timely and conveinent for them is limited to a small area within the proximity of the railway station. Anything outside of this would require using further public transport, hence further time delays, cost and hassle to the commuter. Not very attractive. A lot of commuters work in the business parks on the periphary of Dublin... for obvious reasons. Railway no use here.

2. The busiest junction on the M50 is/was the N7 mad cow as I understand it, this has been backed up with figures at some point I believe. The N3 junction on the M50 is due for upgrade soon, those filtering down onto the M50 should no longer cause delays for those travelling down the Navan road. The new barrier free flow system should also help alleviate the current issues here. Note that I do not believe all the problems at this junction will be solved by these measure, but they WILL help.... a lot !

3. Whilst it is true that even with a Motorway commuters will still experience delays getting in and out of the city center, why continue to hit them with a "double whammy" of another average of 60 minutes delays when they make it out of the city.... do people find this amusing or something ?

4. I would dearly love to work somewhere close to my home, but decent jobs for many professions are hard to find, and often the positions that are available have utterly crap terms and conditions. At the moment many of us have no alternative, I am looking long and hard at starting up my own business, but that takes time and risk. It's also hard to attract investment into an area without proper infrastructure. Again rail won't cut it here, especially in Ireland, we need the roads ! Unless someone has a cunning plan to persuade a number of Multi Nationals to open shop in Meath and Cavan we are stuck commuting. What is the alternative ? McDonalds..... I think not....

5. Another important thing to take note of is the number of fatalities on this road in the last few years. Whilst this is often down to inappropriate driver behaviour for the road type / conditions there is no easy way to change this. When you have multiple junctions and private dwelling entrances exiting onto a VERY busy road you will always have a recipe for disaster. So how will the M3 motorway sort that out ? N1 -> M1 upgrade .... Q.E.D.

I have been travelling this road for eight years, it reached and passed maximum capacity some time ago, the motorway is needed in terms of safety and quality of life for the people of Meath and Cavan. Over 80 percent of the people in these counties want the motorway... and we will get it. The project is too far along for anyone to even consider a U-Turn.

Rodney Trotter · 14-03-2008 1:59pm

21st Century and the commuters of the North West still have to travel through the hell-holes that are Dunshaughlin, Navan and kells. FFS the ring-road (It was called a bypass when built) in Navan has SEVEN sets of traffic lights.

And the biggest and best reason for the M3 is to allow commuters escape the sh1thole that is Dublin.

Ireland needs a decent infrastructure. We were promised dual-carriageway between all the major cities by 2006, it now looks like it could be up to 9 years behind schedule.

Recently we had Seymore Crawford, FG TD for Cavan-Monaghan, compalining about the standard of broadband in Cavan. Bertie Ahern's response was he was only concerned with the Republic of Ireland. Just goes to show why the M3 stops at the Cavan Meath county bounds.

Imagine what kind of country we would have if the likes of "Squeak" was running it? That b1tch should do time for her actions.

Terry · 14-03-2008 2:02pm

Rodney Trotter wrote: »

21st Century and the commuters of the North West still have to travel through the hell-holes that are Dunshaughlin, Navan and kells. FFS the ring-road (It was called a bypass when built) in Navan has SEVEN sets of traffic lights.

And the biggest and best reason for the M3 is to allow commuters escape the sh1thole that is Dublin.

Ireland needs a decent infrastructure. We were promised dual-carriageway between all the major cities by 2006, it now looks like it could be up to 9 years behind schedule.

Recently we had Seymore Crawford, FG TD for Cavan-Monaghan, compalining about the standard of broadband in Cavan. Bertie Ahern's response was he was only concerned with the Republic of Ireland. Just goes to show why the M3 stops at the Cavan Meath county bounds.

Imagine what kind of country we would have if the likes of "Squeak" was running it? That b1tch should do time for her actions.

Did Berite really say that?
I'm voting FF at the next election if he did say that.

bauderline · 14-03-2008 2:16pm

Yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6py-JbDHgUc

And the wife forgot to feed Enda by the looks of it...

BL.

Suaimhneach · 14-03-2008 2:19pm

bauderline wrote: »

I have been travelling this road for eight years, it reached and passed maximum capacity some time ago, the motorway is needed in terms of safety and quality of life for the people of Meath and Cavan. Over 80 percent of the people in these counties want the motorway... and we will get it. The project is too far along for anyone to even consider a U-Turn.

And mores the pity - a lot of the trouble that is happening currently could have been avoided if it wasnt for some of the underhanded actions that have been taken (which were previously discussed). Maybe there was a point a which there could have been a re-routing done but if thats not going to happen we know who to thank.

The saddest thing of all is there was a way in which everyone could have been kept happy. Meath and Cavan could have had their much needed infrastructure and Ireland and the World could have had no damage done to the landscape and complex of Tara. But instead we fight amongst ourselves while Bertie and his brown envelopers smile and get their way.

Terry wrote: »

Did Berite really say that?
I'm voting FF at the next election if he did say that.

Well isnt that a worrying thought - you voted for him twice already...

bauderline · 14-03-2008 2:29pm

Tell me this, out of interest as I honestly don't know the answer....

Did anyone manage to come up with a viable alternative route other than the utter dung spouted about upgrading the existing N3 to a 2+1 or using the N2 or N1 and other such drivel....

Was there an actual alternate route for the motorway that would have kept the "sacred heritage" brigade off our backs...

If there was I would like to see a link to a diagram of it.

L1011 · 14-03-2008 2:44pm

Ahh, swampies. I noticed the rep on the news yesterday wasn't even Irish, probably claiming our dole though? Was the same with the Glen Of The Downs protest, don't remember there being many Irish involved in that either...

imeddyhobbs · 14-03-2008 2:47pm

vid link http://itison.tv/tara/?p=69

Mizu_Ger · 14-03-2008 2:54pm

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

vid link http://itison.tv/tara/?p=69

This is a continuation of their non-violent direct action. The tunnel acts like a souterrain giving the occupant protection and making it very difficult for the enemy to enter.

"the enemy": These people seem to be in a little world of their own (and I don't mean that they are stuck down a hole!).

Steve · 14-03-2008 3:09pm

This thread is turning into a right pain in a hole:pac:

Moojuice · 14-03-2008 3:16pm

Well said Niallb. You can build another road but you cannot build another Tara. The NRA and FF have been underhand about this all along. Those who support the road do so out of selfishnes. They only care about their journey time and how easy it is for them to travel. Think of the bigger picture. This country's transport is a mess and one road wont solve it. FF should be concentrating on getting people ino trains and buses rather trying to get more people into cars. Dublin is not that big a place, if a train can get you to connolly, tara or pearse, it is not much of a journey to other destinations in the city. We need an integrated approach and toll roads are not the answer, but just add to the problem. F*ck the begrudgers and well done the protesters, I wish I had as much conviction as they do.

L1011 · 14-03-2008 3:20pm

How do you get freight on to a commuter rail line? How do you get buses on a lethally dangerous road? You can't and you don't...

As goes conviction - the only conviction they have is the public order offense one they'll be getting soon enough. They do, however, have a complete lack of regard for their own personal safety.

cornbb · 14-03-2008 3:20pm

"squeak" is roughly on an intellectual par with that Australian teenager who sought notoriety through the media after trashing his parents' house with a party - they both think they're doing something smart, whereas its really just moronic and immature, and they both unfortunately have a small legion of followers who think they're actually doing something clever, brave or useful.

ScumLord · 14-03-2008 3:26pm

The rest of Europe has excellent transport networks. Look at the UK, I've spent time in Birmingham and there's is amazing. I could walk to the end of the road and either get a train or a bus to the nearest train station and the train could bring me directly to the airport. I think most major English cities have there transport networks linked up so you don't need a car. Every other countries the same.

We've had money to burn and the best public transport experts on call, yet we still squandered the boom.

Before things get any worse they should just back off and admit there completely useless and get some Brits/Germans/Spanish/French/Dutch/Finish/Swedish anyone really to do our public transport for us.

TequilaMockingBird · 14-03-2008 3:26pm

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

vid link http://itison.tv/tara/?p=69

After watching that video, I vote for the road.

L1011 · 14-03-2008 3:30pm

ScumLord wrote: »

The rest of Europe has excellent transport networks. Look at the UK, I've spent time in Birmingham and there's is amazing. I could walk to the end of the road and either get a train or a bus to the nearest train station and the train could bring me directly to the airport. I think most major English cities have there transport networks linked up so you don't need a car. Every other countries the same.

We've had money to burn and the best public transport experts on call, yet we still squandered the boom.

Before things get any worse they should just back off and admit there completely useless and get some Brits/Germans/Spanish/French/Dutch/Finish/Swedish anyone really to do our public transport for us.

The majority of Europes transport networks were built directly over 'sacred history' too, just in a time when nobody gave a damn. At that time, we had no money...

We're now building said transport network and we have swampies screaming, crying, ranting and putting themselves in extreme personal danger trying to stop it. Woohoo.

bauderline · 14-03-2008 3:37pm

Oh... I have EVERY bit as much conviction as those guys, don't worry about that !

Are you trying to tell me upwards of 80% of the people in Meath are selfish for wanting to improve their quality of life a little ? Try telling that to a few of them in person... you will learn the true meaning of conviction rather quickly I would say....

And lets get this straight, Tara and Rath Lugh "A boo" will still be there after the Motorway is built, they are not being destroyed or removed !

I wish people would stop trying to build the character of these wasters ! Look at that video, hairy features is completely stoned and smoking a spliff by the looks of it....

First with the news:Tara protesters to be removed

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