Pundits talking nonsence

Tusky · 12-03-2008 05:14PM #1

One thing that annoys me more than anything is uninformed pundits spouting opinions as if they are facts when they are clearly wrong. Most recently, Rednapp and Andy Grey, sperately, going on about how if you took Torres & Gerrards goals away from Liverpool they would be 13th in the league.

Heres some statistics.

League
Liverpool: Goals overall-53. Torres & Gerrard-29 55% of goals scored
ManU: Goals overall-58, Ronaldo & Tevez- 32 55% of goals scored
Arsenal: Goals Overall-57, Adebayor & Fabregas-26 46% of goals scored

Chelsea are substantially lower with Lampard & Drogba scoring 26% but its been a mediocre year for those two and Drogba was away in Africa. Last season the percentage would have been much much higher.

If you take the two top scorers out of the big four, here are the goals scored by the rest of the team.

Cheski- 56
Arsenal - 55
Liverpool- 45
Man Utd - 35

Also the way they go on about Rafa resting Torres you would swear that he only played half of the games this season. He has started 30 times and been used as a sub 4 times. Thats a total of 34 apperances.

Liverpool have played around 37 Champions League/League games. Torres was also out for a month with an injury.

Compared with Utd, Ronaldo has started 30 games and been used as a sub 4 times. Rooney has made 27 apperances. I know they had injuries but they have also been rested on occasion.

I just wish they would do a bit of research into what they are spouting.

citytillidie · 12-03-2008 05:17PM

I stopped listening to them, they just dont seem to like Liverpool having a bit of success

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:19PM

citytillidie wrote: »

I stopped listening to them, they just dont seem to like Liverpool having a bit of success

They like entertaining football by the sounds it.

Something Liverpool rarely produce

Tusky · 12-03-2008 05:19PM

citytillidie wrote: »

I stopped listening to them, they just dont seem to like Liverpool having a bit of success

Ive no problem with someone criticizing a team, player or performance but when they are getting basic facts wrong its frustrating because then you have people watching this on tv and taking it as a truth.

I mean, these guys get paid BIG BIG money for their opinions...its hard to believe.

ntlbell wrote: »

They like entertaining football by the sounds it.

Something Liverpool rarely produce

Leave it out, has nothing to do with this thread. Please dont let this turn into another Liverpool are crap, no they are good, no they are crap, no they are good thread..

Jazzy · 12-03-2008 05:23PM

yup, pretty much exactly what i thought of too when they came out with those stats. dunphy tho treats them as gospel and as long as no1 is around to ask him hard questions about his punditry he'll continue to use them to spout sh1te.
italian football is h1te and the PL is hype.... but didnt roma knock out la liga leaders real madrid eamonn? sure ignore that, dont mention it.... it might cause ppl to question why they pay their licence fees

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:23PM

Tusky wrote: »

Ive no problem with someone criticizing a team, player or performance but when they are getting basic facts wrong its frustrating because then you have people watching this on tv and taking it as a truth.

I mean, these guys get paid BIG BIG money for their opinions...its hard to believe.

Leave it out, has nothing to do with this thread. Please dont let this turn into another Liverpool are crap, no they are good, no they are crap, no they are good thread..

I'm being honest dunphy and the gang are all about "flair"

Liverpool are very boring to watch and I'm sure if you're an adult and a Liverpool fan you can safely admit they don't have the flair or play with very little player and most of the team is pretty average.

That's all the lads are saying and it's not far from the truth.

United and Arsenal play beautiful football Liverpool don't

It doesn't mean they're bad it's just not "sexy"

Hire a dutch manager.

Tusky · 12-03-2008 05:26PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm being honest dunphy and the gang are all about "flair"

Liverpool are very boring to watch and I'm sure if you're an adult and a Liverpool fan you can safely admit they don't have the flair or play with very little player and most of the team is pretty average.

That's all the lads are saying and it's not far from the truth.

United and Arsenal play beautiful football Liverpool don't

It doesn't mean they're bad it's just not "sexy"

Hire a dutch manager.

Completely off topic. Reported because it will derail the initial intention of thread.

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:28PM

Tusky wrote: »

Completely off topic. Reported because it will derail the initial intention of thread.

Eh, fair enough.

ditpoker · 12-03-2008 05:29PM

the facts may be wrong but the point remains... liverpool are more dependent on torres and gerrard than united are on ronaldo and tevez in my opinion. i agree redknapp and gray's facts are wrong, but the point they're communicating is that liverpool are very very very dependent on 2 players... much much more so than the other teams. Some will disagree, but this would be an opinion i agree with.

i think the difference with torres being rested is he is rested away at portsmouth for example whereas, rooney might get rested against derby at home. all players get rested. I think a bigger issue is made regarding torres because it started with him a very fit guy in his early twenties being "rested" after about 4 games which is ridiculous. its different to rest ronaldo after 16 games in a row, than to rest torres after 3 or 4 games. no premiership footballer (other than ledley king) needs a rest after 3 or 4 games.

edit: i also agree with ntlbell... liverpool are effective but dull as dishwater...

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:30PM

ditpoker wrote: »

the facts may be wrong but the point remains... liverpool are more dependent on torres and gerrard than united are on ronaldo and tevez in my opinion. i agree redknapp and gray's facts are wrong, but the point they're communicating is that liverpool are very very very dependent on 2 players... much much more so than the other teams. Some will disagree, but this would be an opinion i agree with.

i think the difference with torres being rested is he is rested away at portsmouth for example whereas, rooney might get rested against derby at home. all players get rested. I think a bigger issue is made regarding torres because it started with him a very fit guy in his early twenties being "rested" after about 4 games which is ridiculous. its different to rest ronaldo after 16 games in a row, than to rest torres after 3 or 4 games. no premiership footballer (other than ledley king) needs a rest after 3 or 4 games.

Ching Ching.

Pigman II · 12-03-2008 05:31PM

Statistics eh? What's the point?

Dya know If Liverpool had played all their games this season with no goalkeeper they would probably have had less clean sheets.

lpool2k05 · 12-03-2008 05:36PM

ditpoker wrote: »

the facts may be wrong but the point remains... liverpool are more dependent on torres and gerrard than united are on ronaldo and tevez in my opinion. i agree redknapp and gray's facts are wrong, but the point they're communicating is that liverpool are very very very dependent on 2 players... much much more so than the other teams. Some will disagree, but this would be an opinion i agree with.

i think the difference with torres being rested is he is rested away at portsmouth for example whereas, rooney might get rested against derby at home. all players get rested. I think a bigger issue is made regarding torres because it started with him a very fit guy in his early twenties being "rested" after about 4 games which is ridiculous. its different to rest ronaldo after 16 games in a row, than to rest torres after 3 or 4 games. no premiership footballer (other than ledley king) needs a rest after 3 or 4 games.

edit: i also agree with ntlbell... liverpool are effective but dull as dishwater...

In the premiership torres hasnt being rested since the Birmingham game last September so the idea of him being rested is a bit ridiculous at this stage!!

Tusky provided the facts above that both Liverpool and Man Utd do rely on their dynamic duo's to score goals but everyone else has their individual job in the team.

Dunphy just really doesnt like Liverpool and even if they did play 'sexy football' he would always find something negative to say!Anybody know who he actually supports?

What is sexy football?Passing the ball around 50 times before being back where you start from?

_blank_ · 12-03-2008 05:37PM

lpool2k05 wrote: »

Anybody know who he actually supports?

Nuneaton Borough.

mike65 · 12-03-2008 05:39PM

Regarding TV pundits, the words of Dirty Harry spring to mind - Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one.

Mike.

lpool2k05 · 12-03-2008 05:39PM

DesF wrote: »

Nuneaton Borough.

:D:D:D:D:D:D Bet they play 'sexy football'

DSB · 12-03-2008 05:41PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm being honest dunphy and the gang are all about "flair"

Liverpool are very boring to watch and I'm sure if you're an adult and a Liverpool fan you can safely admit they don't have the flair or play with very little player and most of the team is pretty average.

That's all the lads are saying and it's not far from the truth.

United and Arsenal play beautiful football Liverpool don't

It doesn't mean they're bad it's just not "sexy"

Hire a dutch manager.

John Giles has always been mad into his flair yeah:rolleyes:

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:41PM

lpool2k05 wrote: »

What is sexy football?Passing the ball around 50 times before being back where you start from?

Not just pass it, be well presented and look "good" passing it.

This rules out launching high balls into any long donkeys.

I'm referring to Niall Quinn here not CROUCH.

gucci · 12-03-2008 05:42PM

Pundits get paid to talk nonsense.....alot of the posters on these boards would be equally well paid if it came to talking nonsense!

I think this season is an exceptional one for Liverpool regards being over reliant on Gerrard and Torres. (Obviously Gerrard has dug them out in the past and Torres wasnt there previously!) But last season Kuyt, Crouch and Bellemy (even Garcia and Zenden) were scoring goals too. Whereas we have lost bellemy,garcia and zenden, the replacements havent scored as many goals as soon, and kuyt......well i just cant explain how blunt he looks infront of goals this season.

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:43PM

DSB wrote: »

John Giles has always been mad into his flair yeah:rolleyes:

John loves a bit of flair as long as there's something at the end of it.

E.g. he wouldn't mind 10k step overs as long as the ball was put in the right place and a goal at the end of it.

Giles loves a bit of flair.

gucci · 12-03-2008 05:44PM

DSB wrote: »

John Giles has always been mad into his flair yeah:rolleyes:

hes more into hard graft, honesty and integrity!

Helix · 12-03-2008 05:44PM

Tusky wrote: »

One thing that annoys me more than anything is uninformed pundits spouting opinions as if they are facts when they are clearly wrong. Most recently, Rednapp and Andy Grey, sperately, going on about how if you took Torres & Gerrards goals away from Liverpool they would be 13th in the league.

Heres some statistics.

League
Liverpool: Goals overall-53. Torres & Gerrard-29 55% of goals scored
ManU: Goals overall-58, Ronaldo & Tevez- 32 55% of goals scored
Arsenal: Goals Overall-57, Adebayor & Fabregas-26 46% of goals scored

Chelsea are substantially lower with Lampard & Drogba scoring 26% but its been a mediocre year for those two and Drogba was away in Africa. Last season the percentage would have been much much higher.

If you take the two top scorers out of the big four, here are the goals scored by the rest of the team.

Cheski- 56
Arsenal - 55
Liverpool- 45
Man Utd - 35

Also the way they go on about Rafa resting Torres you would swear that he only played half of the games this season. He has started 30 times and been used as a sub 4 times. Thats a total of 34 apperances.

Liverpool have played around 37 Champions League/League games. Torres was also out for a month with an injury.

Compared with Utd, Ronaldo has started 30 games and been used as a sub 4 times. Rooney has made 27 apperances. I know they had injuries but they have also been rested on occasion.

I just wish they would do a bit of research into what they are spouting.

but, have you gone through all the games that gerrard and torres scored in, and taken those goals away from the results?

the percentage of the teams goals they have done really matter in this situation

you know, i wish some people would do a bit of research into what theyre posting

DSB · 12-03-2008 05:45PM

ntlbell wrote: »

John loves a bit of flair as long as there's something at the end of it.

E.g. he wouldn't mind 10k step overs as long as the ball was put in the right place and a goal at the end of it.

Giles loves a bit of flair.

Hahahaha yeah right.

Mr Alan · 12-03-2008 05:45PM

mike65 wrote: »

Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one

This is why you are the "Boards Soccer" Guru

_blank_ · 12-03-2008 05:46PM

gucci wrote: »

hes more into hard graft, honesty and integrity!

Don't forget Moral Courage

Likes the aul moral courage does Gilesy

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:46PM

DSB wrote: »

Hahahaha yeah right.

You're trying to say he's some hard hitting no nonsense midfielder?

Have you checked out his suits?

dude.

citytillidie · 12-03-2008 05:51PM

Helix wrote: »

but, have you gone through all the games that gerrard and torres scored in, and taken those goals away from the results?

the percentage of the teams goals they have done really matter in this situation

you know, i wish some people would do a bit of research into what theyre posting

So what your saying is if you have one main striker, who scores alot of game winning goals then its wrong?

So Torres scores alot of goals that have won games, he is the main striker its his job to score the goals. I just think alot of non Liverpool fans are jealious that Liverpool have him.

Tusky · 12-03-2008 05:52PM

Helix wrote: »

but, have you gone through all the games that gerrard and torres scored in, and taken those goals away from the results?

the percentage of the teams goals they have done really matter in this situation

you know, i wish some people would do a bit of research into what theyre posting

No I haven't, I nicked those stats from another forum as I dont have the time to go through every game individually. However, I am not on tv and am not paid 100s of thousands of pounds for my football opinions so I dont need to do extensive research.

The figures I posted reflect 90% of the picture. If you went through the games to find out what the exact affect of the goals were, the overall result wouldnt differ much.

ntlbell · 12-03-2008 05:54PM

Tusky wrote: »

No I haven't, I nicked those stats from another forum as I dont have the time to go through every game individually. However, I am not on tv and am not paid 100s of thousands of pounds for my football opinions so I dont need to do extensive research.

The figures I posted reflect 90% of the picture. If you were through the games to find out to find out what the exact affect of the goals were, the percentages wouldn't differ much.

They're paid to get people like you up on your high horse and talking about them.

Job done.

It's like saying "Mr Rednapp, gets paid thousands by sky and he's awful"

JOURNALIST DIDN'T RESEARCH OPINION

MORE NEWS AT 11

gucci · 12-03-2008 06:01PM

DesF wrote: »

Don't forget Moral Courage

Likes the aul moral courage does Gilesy

Could you imagine him mumbling his way through a few sentences pointing out some hard graft and moral courage and announcing "you cant buy moral courage.....its all about heart....you cant bottle that Bill"
well look no further lazy cowardy footballers:

photo#5022360216800506930

PHB · 12-03-2008 06:02PM

I do think to an extent Liverpool are more reliant on those two players, and that you can't necessarily infer everything from what would happen if those players weren't there.
That said, the pundits are just talking crap.

Personally I think the reason they talk this crap is the same reason they can't make it as managers, they don't really understand the game all that well.

Helix · 12-03-2008 06:07PM

Tusky wrote: »

The figures I posted reflect 90% of the picture. If you went through the games to find out what the exact affect of the goals were, the overall result wouldnt differ much.

it would yeah

you could for example have rooney and tevez both scoring a brace in 1 game, thats 4 goals of the total in a match they may have won 5-0 and someone else scored in

that means you take away 4 of the total goals and united have the exact same amount of points, you dig?

with liverpool for example, if they won 2-1 and torres and gerrard scored 1 each, thats -3 points

thats how they worked it out, its got very little to do with the amount of goals the players scored, but the results in the games where they scored them

Pundits talking nonsence

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