the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

Cianos · 29-02-2008 07:38PM

I really don't understand why Ireland is so violent. It seems to be a level above others for random acts of violence. I'm living in Berlin, which is a poorer city than Dublin with higher unemployment rates etc and it feels totally safe. I have seen 0 incidents...not even a hint of any kind of trouble whatsoever. Whereas going out in Dublin you expect to see something happen on any weekend night. And I think the same applies to nearly every city I've lived in other than Dublin.

kravmaga · 29-02-2008 07:43PM

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0229/drimnagh.html?RTEMAILID

If anybody wishes to donate to the victims' families ,the account and sort code for AIB,Naas Road are enclosed in link above.

shqipshume · 29-02-2008 07:52PM

:(Out for trouble they were from minute one, Carrying screwdrivers around needs to be curfews on little scumbags like this and if seen out parents held accountable maybe?
I have a 15 year old and he is never out wandering the streets.I would kick his ass.

P.s who ever said bad friends i had bad friends and never followed their lead u make decisions for yourself.

Very sad may the RIP and god bless the families

raemie21 · 29-02-2008 08:21PM

Ryaller wrote: »

See what you did there?

I couldn't give a rat's ass if these scumbags weren't hugged enough as a baby, or that they turn to ASB because they're bored, or whatever. Bored are you? Read a f*cking book, you might learn something.
These vermin should be locked in a dark hole for a long, long time.

Glad to hear you had a nice upbringing with lots of hugs yourself. I bet these guys don't know their alphabet never mind being able read a book.

Think it's only me and DadaKopf who are on this wavelength - not making excuses for the teenagers but nobody chooses to turn into this and making wild statements about life-imprisonment, torture etc. is ridiculous. I don't want to be attacked either but maybe take some time to think about the bigger picture. There's nothing out there for kids or families like this - even when it's clear at age five/six that they have serious difficulties with empathy, aggression or behaviour, it's kinda like yeah well best of luck with that, read about you in the papers in a few years time.

Ryaller · 29-02-2008 10:57PM

raemie21 wrote: »

Glad to hear you had a nice upbringing with lots of hugs yourself. I bet these guys don't know their alphabet never mind being able read a book.

Think it's only me and DadaKopf who are on this wavelength - not making excuses for the teenagers but nobody chooses to turn into this and making wild statements about life-imprisonment, torture etc. is ridiculous. I don't want to be attacked either but maybe take some time to think about the bigger picture. There's nothing out there for kids or families like this - even when it's clear at age five/six that they have serious difficulties with empathy, aggression or behaviour, it's kinda like yeah well best of luck with that, read about you in the papers in a few years time.

What are you trying to get at? What's the bigger picture? Two innocent people are now dead. Murdered with a screwdriver. And you find a suggestion of life imprisonment ridiculous? A "wild statement" no less! What would you prescribe? A role-playing session on how "knives-are-bad" with pizza for afters?
I didn't mention torture, but now that you brought it up..
I could honestly care less that there's nothing out there for these parasites. Your life's sh1t? Boo hoo. Everyone's life is. Learn something. Educate yourself. You might be able to crawl out of that hole you've been born into. Whoever did this should be locked up for life. End of discussion.

raemie21 wrote: »

Think it's only me and DadaKopf who are on this wavelength - not making excuses for the teenagers but...

I will anyway.

Oh, and kudos for calling me on my silver spoon middle-class upbringing - It's like you've pointed a mirror into my very soul. I feel so small.

lennox1 · 01-03-2008 12:43AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

The Garda are a joke, only in Dublin would you see 6 year old kids verbally abusing the police and throwing things at them, I've seen this in town before. A lot of the coppers on the beat are hapless morons with no streetsmarts and no balls. They need to toughen up and take NO sh*t from these kids. Something wrong with their training I think.

Its not the training I think,more like the Ombudsman.These kids parents will be rushing to the ombudsman office to complain about the horrible Gardai who dare to try and deal with their little darlings,and the Ombudsman makes the Gardas life a misery while they investigate the complaint.The media then make it a headline story,'Complaints against the Gardai increase 1000% etc etc.and the media become judge and jury and then go on to 'execute' all Gardai.I don't blame the Gardai,they are not being supported by politicians or the judiciary or parts of society who should be less sensationalist and more fair and balanced in their viewpoint.
Teachers,Gardai,neighbours can see those children at 4 and will predict with uncanny accuracy, how that child will turn out.Intervention by anyone won't change the outcome as the most important people in the situation, the parents,don't give a damn,they are too busy selfishly looking after their own needs,but if the Garda or teacher dares to say anything to the child,they suddenly become the worlds best parents defending their children against the 'brutal' Garda or 'bitch 'of a teacher.
Children like that then become the teenagers who commited this awful crime on two innocent people and some sections of society blame 'society'

tomster · 01-03-2008 01:58AM

lennox1 wrote: »

Its not the training I think,more like the Ombudsman.These kids parents will be rushing to the ombudsman office to complain about the horrible Gardai who dare to try and deal with their little darlings,and the Ombudsman makes the Gardas life a misery while they investigate the complaint.The media then make it a headline story,'Complaints against the Gardai increase 1000% etc etc.and the media become judge and jury and then go on to 'execute' all Gardai.

True, true, true. In 10 years time the only option will be to get a gun, turn house into a fortress and pray to God to keep hordes of "darlings" away. Where are you going Ireland?

Dyr · 01-03-2008 02:48AM

lennox1 wrote: »

Its not the training I think,more like the Ombudsman.These kids parents will be rushing to the ombudsman office to complain about the horrible Gardai who dare to try and deal with their little darlings,and the Ombudsman makes the Gardas life a misery while they investigate the complaint.The media then make it a headline story,'Complaints against the Gardai increase 1000% etc etc.and the media become judge and jury and then go on to 'execute' all Gardai.

Get off the stage, the gardai have been ignoring the downward spiral of parts of dublin for long before an ombudsman was even dreamed of.

Still, it's funny, an ombudsman is put in place to try male sure that the 5-O dont go fitting anyone else up for murder and all of a sudden you reckon they cant do their jobs because the evil ombudsmen is harrasing them. :rolleyes: While you're at it link a few of those media headlines that are bashing the gardai.

Tha Gopher · 01-03-2008 12:05PM

Cianos wrote: »

I have seen 0 incidents...not even a hint of any kind of trouble whatsoever. Whereas going out in Dublin you expect to see something happen on any weekend night. And I think the same applies to nearly every city I've lived in other than Dublin.

Compared to most Irish country towns Dublin city centre at the weekend is relatively safe. Cant remember the last time I saw a fight.

celt2005 · 01-03-2008 12:54PM

lennox1 wrote: »

Its not the training I think,more like the Ombudsman.These kids parents will be rushing to the ombudsman office to complain about the horrible Gardai who dare to try and deal with their little darlings,and the Ombudsman makes the Gardas life a misery while they investigate the complaint.'

What complaints are you talking about , be specific , can you back up this assertion ...

Are you inferring we should get rid of ombudsman, and allow garda free access , maybe you should look at the Mc Brearty case ...

I also would like to add my condolences to family and friends of these two men, ashamed to be Irish at present.

SimpleSam06 · 01-03-2008 02:27PM

celt2005 wrote: »

ashamed to be Irish at present.

Would you rather be Polish?

WooPeeA · 01-03-2008 03:46PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Would you rather be Polish?

I think she didn't mean that. She just tried to express herself that way. I don't think that she doesn't want to be Irish anymore.;)

gazzer · 01-03-2008 07:38PM

While I am not ashamed to be Irish I am totally ashamed at our apalling judiciary who seem to be living in a totally different world to the rest of us and who let scumbag after scumbag out on the street to inflict misery on decent people.

nesf · 01-03-2008 08:59PM

seamus wrote: »

I think that if your child gets convicted of a headline crime (murder, rape, etc), then each parent should have to serve half of the minimum sentence and all of their children should be taken from them and permanently put into care.

You do realise that headline crimes in this country include things like bicycle theft and while I agree that we need to crack down on the illegal removal of two wheeled vehicles, I think blaming the parents to be a bit harsh.

nesf · 01-03-2008 09:06PM

DadaKopf wrote: »

Not saying they shouldn't be punished, but you think this is a long-term solution?

It depends on whether you think sentences should punish, rehabilitate or some mix of the two. Personally, I think that putting them in prison won't help them or fix anything but it's a few less screwdriver wielding idiots off the street which is something. It's not going to be much of a deterrent to the kind of people who do these things though.

gurramok · 01-03-2008 09:43PM

gazzer wrote: »

While I am not ashamed to be Irish I am totally ashamed at our apalling judiciary who seem to be living in a totally different world to the rest of us and who let scumbag after scumbag out on the street to inflict misery on decent people.

gazzer has come on boards before detailing the harassment from the same type of scumbags he deals with on a daily basis in his neighbourhood.

Don't go out to them gazzer when they next brake your window, your life is more important and not worth losing it over material damage.

Run_to_da_hills · 02-03-2008 01:08AM

Its scum like this that is turning Ireland into a CCTV surveillance police state.

Tha Gopher · 02-03-2008 01:13AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its scum like this that is turning Ireland into a CCTV surveillance police state.

And unless you are a scumbag you shouldnt have anything to fear from the CCTV. Or compulsory ID cards. Or recording of websites you visit, as long as the info is confidential. Yes, it may be a rather bad scenario if you end up falling for the ex gf of a guy from the govs monitoring programme, and on your wedding day he interrupts the proceedings to announce you once watched 2 Girls 1 Cup, but really, come on like.

Police state my hole. The lads are back out while the DPP decides whether to proceed. Get a fookin grip.

Run_to_da_hills · 02-03-2008 02:02AM

Tha Gopher wrote: »

And unless you are a scumbag you shouldnt have anything to fear from the CCTV. Or compulsory ID cards. Or recording of websites you visit, as long as the info is confidential. Yes, it may be a rather bad scenario if you end up falling for the ex gf of a guy from the govs monitoring programme, and on your wedding day he interrupts the proceedings to announce you once watched 2 Girls 1 Cup, but really, come on like.

Police state my hole. The lads are back out while the DPP decides whether to proceed. Get a fookin grip.

Several years down the line your kids could be restricted by curfu from certain parts of the city in the interest of "curbing yob culture". CCTV, Compulsory ID and registered transit smart cards would make the job very convenient for the authorities.

Interesting article from the Indo. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/martina-devlin/polish-deaths-were-result-of-yob-culture-1303200.html

R.I.P. Two Polish lads.

Irish-trucker · 02-03-2008 02:20AM

Terrible story ,what a waste of 2 lives

Scum are taking over this country , and the sad part is there being let .
The honest hard working people of this country are coming out worst nearly all the time.

I had to laugh at Bertie Ahern's reaction also - 'Thankfully we don't get too many crimes of this nature' - You know 2-3 ...What of it like :rolleyes:

R.I.P Polish lads

John

Tha Gopher · 02-03-2008 03:00AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Several years down the line your kids could be restricted by curfu from certain parts of the city in the interest of "curbing yob culture". CCTV, Compulsory ID and registered transit smart cards would make the job very convenient for the authorities.

Wait.

You mean these laws could mean, hypothetically, if I am working until midnight and trust my 13 year old to be home by 9, the state may force them to obey?

Oh no!!! :rolleyes:

As for that indo article, raising the drinking age to 21? Like most indo writers shes talking out of her arse. If anything it sounds like our teen drink laws were partly to blame for this confrontation.

kravmaga · 02-03-2008 03:28AM

Does anybody know if the vigil went ahead as planned by a local councillor in the area??

Gazza22 · 02-03-2008 03:31AM

blueeyedboy wrote: »

Does anybody know if the vigil went ahead as planned by a local councillor in the area??

It did indeed, with a turn out of approx 2,000 people.

utick · 02-03-2008 09:16AM

Irish-trucker wrote: »

Terrible story ,what a waste of 2 lives

Scum are taking over this country , and the sad part is there being let .
The honest hard working people of this country are coming out worst nearly all the time.

I had to laugh at Bertie Ahern's reaction also - 'Thankfully we don't get too many crimes of this nature' - You know 2-3 ...What of it like :rolleyes:

R.I.P Polish lads

John

yeah bertie aherns remarks were not very acurate, this is the third serious random attack on the polish in the space of one or two months, if thats not too many i dont how many is too many

SimpleSam06 · 02-03-2008 11:57AM

Bambi wrote: »

the gardai have beaucoup powers, but them and the govt have their own priorties about where they should be applied.

Heh just saw this, I was thinking more along the lines of subcutaneous tracking tags.

Nightwish · 02-03-2008 01:10PM

Will Bertie be sending his ADC to the funerals of these guys, as he did with coke-taker Katy French?

teetotaller · 02-03-2008 01:38PM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/absence-of-gardai-root-of-savage-stab-deaths-1303671.html

It is an article about that what happened and about people's reaction yesterday evening.

I didn't know details earlier, but I read shocking information, that one of lads was hit into his throat with screwdriver, and second polish man had scredriver inside his brain..............

as many of you said earlier - irish law in relation to youths is stupid. youngsters can do everything and they are not responsible for anything.

I live here 3,5 years at the moment and so far it happened only twice that I had problems with young feckers

I'm quite tall and well builtbut few - 12- 14 years old weren't afraid to throw petards into my direction. ( one exploded on my back and I had to put my jacket to the bin ) as I was told later by my irish friends if I would like to stop and hold underage fecker I could have problems with gardais that I'm making an offence to underage person...............

Another time some feckers were throwing stones to the cars staying in the traffic. they were behind huge wall, so nobody saw them and they were just having fun hearing stones hitting cars body....

My car got twice......... one driver stopped gardai on the bike said to him what happened and gardai shrugged his arms and went away.....

Run_to_da_hills · 02-03-2008 02:04PM

teetotaller wrote: »

Another time some feckers were throwing stones to the cars staying in the traffic. they were behind huge wall, so nobody saw them and they were just having fun hearing stones hitting cars body.... My car got twice......... one driver stopped gardai on the bike said to him what happened and gardai shrugged his arms and went away.

A well known trick before the days of immobilers is have one or two kids of about 12yo peg stones at passing cars. The driver stops, gets out and runs after them, by the time he catches up with them another few will jump out over a wall and rob the car and beep the horn looking for attention.

WooPeeA · 02-03-2008 02:37PM

A 16-year-old boy was arrested last Wednesday after he presented himself along with his father to Sundrive Road garda station. He was later released without charge. This followed the arrests of a 19-year-old and 15-year-old who were also released without charge. Their release added to the criticism of the gardai from a number of residents in the area.

Gosh!! Hope they took away their passports!! Otherwise don't be surprised if they run to Brazil to save their asses.

lennox1 · 02-03-2008 03:02PM

celt2005 wrote: »

What complaints are you talking about , be specific , can you back up this assertion ...

Are you inferring we should get rid of ombudsman, and allow garda free access , maybe you should look at the Mc Brearty case ...

I also would like to add my condolences to family and friends of these two men, ashamed to be Irish at present.

I am not inferring anything of the sort as I am in full support of the Ombudsman to root out genuine accusations of wrongdoing or corruption at every rank.Relative of mine,Garda,never touched alcohol,investigated for being drunk on duty by the parents of a little 'darling'.......colleague of his accused of and investigated for assault despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary again by.... the parents of a little 'darling!'
Until such time as parents accept or are made to accept that they are actually responsible for rearing children with respect for other human beings,nothing the rest of society,teachers,Gardai etc do will change things and we will continue to have sad events like this one.

the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

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