the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

Wook

I have been following this sad story, the only part i don't understand in many of those Youth crimes is, that the media is not dragging the parents through the ordeal of what their kids have caused.

Would it not be a very good deterrent knowing what your kid does will reflect on you one way or another?
Kids stabbing somebody in the head with a fricking screw driver just seems like parent who did a crap job at their job raising the teenagers.

agree/disagree?

the dee

Well the suspects are minors so they are given anonynimity (?) until charged aren't they? Once they are charged or convicted or otherwise identified then the media storm against them and their parents will begin.

At the moment we don't know who we should be talking about.

Xavi6

Why is it necessarily the parents' fault? The kids could be little sh*ts for a variety of reasons i.e. bad network of friends.

Hagar

Second guy has died I believe.
Two wasted lives. Madness, sheer madness.

danniemcq

yeah just heard the other guy died too, what the frak is going on these days. if the guys are ever got they'll be out agin in 5 years. I detest the way irish law is set

Ulysses Gaze

what the frak is going on these days

Break down of law and order followed by ineptitude of police/legal system?

BigglesMcGee

They should all be equally hel accountable for these murders. They were all involved in the systematic murders of these 2 guys, not just the scumback with the screwdirver.

sombaht

Why is it necessarily the parents' fault? The kids could be little sh*ts for a variety of reasons i.e. bad network of friends.

Because its the parents responsibility to be aware of who their kids socialise with. Can be difficult, but not impossible and does not have to "invade" their little darlings privacy.

If you know your kids are hanging out with a bunch of scumbags do you honestly stand idly by and let it happen?

Granted blame can't be laid entirely at the parents feet, but they are responsible fora large part of it

Cheers,
sombaht

SheroN

They're little sh1tbags. Anyone hear them talking on newstalk about carrying knives around etc?

You'd swear they were living in south central LA. One of the little tards said "If we go down to Rathmines we know what to expect and if they come up here they know what to expect too, so i carry knife"

It's trully sickening.

RIP the two Polish guys.

missmatty

Yeah heard them on newstalk, laughing about knifing someone before they knife you... :mad:

Little scumbags, they won't rat on each other either. I'd be surprised if they get anyone for this.

SheroN

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why is it necessarily the parents' fault? The kids could be little sh*ts for a variety of reasons i.e. bad network of friends.

**** that. They're little sh1tbags. If I could find a womb big enough I'd shove them into it and try and abort them (what the parents should have done in the first place). They're a waste of human organs.

seamus

I think that if your child gets convicted of a headline crime (murder, rape, etc), then each parent should have to serve half of the minimum sentence and all of their children should be taken from them and permanently put into care.

Raising a person who as a child can murder another person takes actual effort. Plain old neglect isn't sufficient. If your child murders someone (as a child), you're clearly incapable of raising children and guilty of criminal neglect at the very least.

Beruthiel

seamus wrote: »

I think that if your child gets convicted of a headline crime (murder, rape, etc), then each parent should have to serve half of the minimum sentence and all of their children should be taken from them and permanently put into care.

Raising a person who as a child can murder another person takes actual effort. Plain old neglect isn't sufficient. If your child murders someone (as a child), you're clearly incapable of raising children and guilty of criminal neglect at the very least.

I couldn't agree more.
And am I right in saying, that these two men died because they refused to buy drink in the off licence for this gang of scumbags?

biko

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0228/breaking6.htm

Second man dies after Drimnagh attack

Gardaí have opened a double murder investigation following the death of a second man after an attack in Drimnagh at the weekend.

Pawel Kalite (26) originally from Poland and with an address on Benbulbin Road, Dublin 12, died in St James's Hospital after being stabbed in the throat with a screwdriver.

His friend Marius Szwajkos (27), from Szczucin in Poland, died on Monday after he was stabbed in the head during the attack.

Gardaí had opened a murder case following the death of Mr Szwajkos and are questioning a third teenager today. The 17-year-old was arrested at 4pm yesterday after going to Sundrive Road Garda station.

Two other teenagers, aged 19 and 15, have already been questioned by gardaí and released without charge.

Gardaí believe the three were on Benbulben Road, Drimnagh, just before 7pm on Saturday. Files are being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Both the victims came to Ireland last year looking for work in the construction industry. It is believed they were attacked after they refused to buy alcohol for a group of local teenagers.

The victims' families have arrived in Ireland from Poland. Accommodation has been provided by Dublin City Council, and a fund for the families has been set up at the AIB on Dublin's Naas Road.

Terry

It takes a special kind of scumbag to stab someone.
It takes an extremely unique type of scumbag to stab someone in the head.

They're only kids and once they realise that they are going to spend a long time locked away, they will crack and tell all, if they already haven't.
You can be guaranteed that at least one of them is in floods of tears right now after being told that they will now be done for murdering two people.

Like Gordon said, take the kids from the parents and put the parents away.
At least if they are in jail, the chances of them continuing to breed are slim.

ShagNastii

It is believed they were attacked after they refused to buy alcohol for a group of local teenagers.

This would make you sick!

little lady

the dee wrote: »

Well the suspects are minors so they are given anonynimity (?) until charged aren't they?

I thought that because of their age they won't be named at all.

I think that some of the blame lies with the parents and how they raised their children but then again the suspects are between 16 and 19 years old and they are not completely stupid, they do know the difference between right and wrong and no matter how messed up you are you know that it is wrong to stab someone regardless of what part of the body.

In circumstances like this I think that whomever is found guilty should be named regardless of age and they should be put away for a VERY long time, non of this "sentances running concurrently" c**p that our judges hand down.

kittensoft1984

yeah that was very scary!

happened around the corner from my home in Dublin!

DonJose

Scumbags, life should mean life!!!

mike65

I love the reactions from the locals - "a its a lovely area no trouble round here its terrible that this has happened" etc. How many of these locals would stand up and be counted I wonder?

Mike.

gurramok

Yeh, if it's a lovely area, they won't have any bother standing up. (Not standing up in a bad area i understand.)

Would these be classified as racist murders? (not sure if there has been any in Ireland in recent years?)

Dennis the Stone

****ing love if a vigilante group took these bastards up to the Wicklow Mountains

seamus

gurramok wrote: »

Would these be classified as racist murders? (not sure if there has been any in Ireland in recent years?)

I don't think we distinguish between types of murder in this country. The motivation for the murder would simply be used as evidence or taken into account at sentencing time.

nikki 122

SheroN wrote: »

**** that. They're little sh1tbags. If I could find a womb big enough I'd shove them into it and try and abort them (what the parents should have done in the first place). They're a waste of human organs.

nicely said ..in my opinion the parents should be punished to a certain extent that way they will force thier kids to behave but those little murderers should be severly punished i mean what is wrong with our society , two people were savagely attacked by kids and died i just dont understand all this madness!!!

kittensoft1984

mike65 wrote: »

I love the reactions from the locals - "a its a lovely area no trouble round here its terrible that this has happened" etc. How many of these locals would stand up and be counted I wonder?

Mike.

well i for one am i local and i wouldnt say its a nice area etc etc!

its not a bad area either to be honest, but there has been a fair few murders and stabbings etc!

mike65

Thats the way things are isn't it? A location could be hell but when the media come knocking everythings grand until an area gets such a bad rep there is no point pretending otherwise.

Mike.

Hagar

Bloody forriners, coming here and being our murder victims...

MIN2511

I think it's unfair that the sins of the parents fall on the kids or vice versa

5starpool

Those little fcuks should get screwdrivers stuck through their balls and be hung up by them. I am not usually an eye for an eye type, but pricks like these are the reason that there are arguments in favour of capital punishment (which I am generally against)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

omg, those americans are so stupid being allowed to carry guns. I think we can all be incredibly grateful those two murdered poles weren't allowed carry weapons to defend themselves, and thank jesus we live in a free country.

freedom!

Boggles

MIN2511 wrote: »

I think it's unfair that the sins of the parents fall on the kids or vice versa

Parents own there kids until they are 18. If my dog bit someone, I'd be accountable, same difference IMO.

kmick

Boggles wrote: »

Parents own there kids until they are 18. If my dog bit someone, I'd be accountable, same difference IMO.

Easy to say but id hate to have to take the fall for someone else - you do your best with your kids. You can keep your dog on a leash but a 17 year old does whatever thye like.

These guys will get what they deserve. It must have been some attack for them both to die. Lots of lives ruined its crap.

skywalker

This thread was the first Id heard about this. Shocking stuff. They should never get out of prison for something like that. Agreed with whoever said they better not end up with concurrent sentences.

seamus

kmick wrote: »

you do your best with your kids.

Most people do. Those who don't, breed pieces of **** like this.

calahans

Jesus its amazing the vitriol being spouted here! They should have been aborted!!! Stick a screwdriver in their eyes!!!!!!

What has occurred is terrible, but you cant blame the parents. I grew up in a large family with good parents. All bar one of us was grand and caused no trouble, except for one brother. He was a terrible kid and was always in trouble. When he was 15 we had a local vigilante call to the door and tell my parents that there would be trouble unless he was brought under control. This upset my parents but there was nothing they could do. If they locked him in he would climb out a window. He took a few beatings from my father (nothing bad) but wouldn't stop him. I stress that the other 5 kids were grand. I suppose now he would be diagnosed with ADHT or something. He turned out fine when he hit his late twenties.

Revenge or vigilantes is not the way. Where does it stop? If someone is accused of rape should we cut their balls off or let the court decide?

Dyr

My sisters kids had terrible problems with some little scummer in their area, the cops basically told her that they knew he was a psycho and some day they'd be hauling him in for murder but because of his age there was **** all he could do.


delinquent cull ftw

SheroN

calahans wrote: »

Revenge or vigilantes is not the way. Where does it stop? If someone is accused of rape should we cut their balls off or let the court decide?

Let the courts decide if they're guilty. If they are, cut thier balls off.

sombaht

you cant blame the parents.

The simple fact of the matter remains that a parent is responsible for their children until they reach the age of 18. No "ifs", "buts" or "ands". The effectiveness of locking them in a room, beating them etc is a whole different topic and would require a thread of its own.

Cheers,
sombaht

The Hill Billy

And another thing that písses me off is that these ****ers are being released after being questioned & charged. For Christ's sake they stabbed two innocent men in the head with a screwdriver! They are a danger to society. Surely it is the duty of the state to protect the rest of us from these ****ers & remand them in custody until their trial. Yeah, yeah, innocent until proven guilty & all that - but just look at the amount of crime being committed by those already out on bail for other offences. (Frog Ward anyone?)

ntlbell

seamus wrote: »

I think that if your child gets convicted of a headline crime (murder, rape, etc), then each parent should have to serve half of the minimum sentence and all of their children should be taken from them and permanently put into care.

Raising a person who as a child can murder another person takes actual effort. Plain old neglect isn't sufficient. If your child murders someone (as a child), you're clearly incapable of raising children and guilty of criminal neglect at the very least.

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

seamus

ntlbell wrote: »

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

I'm not talking about your average delinquent here. I'm not talking about kids that are brought home by the Gardai every second weekend and who throw rocks at busses. I'm talking about kids that have gone so far down the road of dirtbaggery that they're committing subhuman atrocities.

Murder and rape and other crimes where you completely and utterly disregard another human life are hitting the bottom of the barrel. They're reserved for people with little or no morals.

As I say, it takes serious effort on the part of a parent to turn someone so low before they hit 18. If your child is convicted of such a crime it's time to say; "Game Over. You've failed as a parent and your extreme neglect has resulted in the death of another human being". The point of having children is to produce a better offspring and impart on them your knowledge and skills and push them to do better than you did.
Spawning a child murderer is a pretty good indicator that you ****ed up good and proper in this regard and you don't deserve another chance to try, lest someone else end up dead.

danniemcq

to the ones sayin death to the scumbags (or similer words) thats to good for the little ****s, cripple them for life castrate them in public. shot in the head pish over to quick

Idbatterim

if one of the perpetrators is 19, he can be tried as an adult. I hope the scum rots in jail.

ambro25

ntlbell wrote: »

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

Works without hiccups in other large European countries, e.g. France, Belgium, Luxembourg (for sure) and Germany (i seem to recall).

That's in adition to the parents pay for the criminal damages (in case they don't have civil insurance to pay out, which is e.g. compulsory for school kids in France, Benelux and Germany). Yup - kiddie nicks the Astra down the road for a spin and gets nabbed? Bailiffs turn up and repo everything to the tune of the damage under Court Order. Simple, equitable (in civil law jurisdictions, no less!), love it.

Fancy that, countries where "parental responsibility" still means just that

seamus wrote: »

As I say, it takes serious effort on the part of a parent to turn someone so low before they hit 18. If your child is convicted of such a crime it's time to say; "Game Over. You've failed as a parent and your extreme neglect has resulted in the death of another human being".

I'd say that, on the contrary, it proves that no parenting efforts were expended whatsoever to try to turn someone into an even semi-decent person.

Rightly, the parent should be pulled up on it, to the extent of the failure.

Latchy

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Break down of law and order followed by ineptitude of police/legal system?

Yes, thats exactly whats happening in th uk .We have had in one weeek 3 phycopatic serial murderers/rapists given life sentences .All 3 had previously commited serious offences and only for the ineptitude of police /legal system might well have being locked up long ago and not free to continue their horrific crimes .How many like them are still out there ? .

Howjoe1

it makes me ashamed to be Irish when something like this happens.

The person have a responsiblity. It's a vicious circle insofar as the future kids of the perpurtrators will turn out even worse.

So much for the Celtic Tiger.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

wtf? a tiger killed someone not too long ago in dublin zoo.

the celtic tiger is alive and kicking

well, biting.

gazzer

Its such a sad sad story. Those poor guys. According to some reports I read that 16 year old scumbag is from the inner city. Him and his delinquent parents (who are alledgedly known to the gardai) where 'transferred' from their council flat out to Drimnagh and that 16 year olds mates started to come from the inner city out to Drimnagh to hang around with their 'waste of a human life' friend. So many people seem to be outraged about this case in the area. I wonder though will anybody stand up to be counted and admit they know what happened (if they have seen anything that is).

The brother of one of the guys who was arrested (19 year old one) was on Adrian Kennedy the other night saying even though his brother didnt kill the guys and even though they both know who did it they will not 'rat' on him cos thats not how you do things out there. FCKWITS..

galwayrush

How come we can breed such scum in Ireland, and when we do, we have no means of halting their descent into crime, we send them to prisons for short periods of time, although long enough for them to learn more from fellow Scum and come out even worse scum than they originally were. Death is too good for them, but at least it will rid us of the useless cancer on society.

SheroN

According to the front of the Herald ( I know it's a piece of sh1t) but i happened to see it in the shop at lunch.

The 16 year old high fived some of his mates moments before he was hauled off by the gardai. Apparently one of his mates who was in the crowd shouted "go back to ****ing Poland" or some such.

nikki 122

this country is seriously corrupt we need to take action against all this racism and violence.. does anyone have an opinion on the parents being punished?