the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

tomster · 29-02-2008 08:51AM

Terry wrote: »

Including the "lost marbles" bit?
I'd imagine that would be a bit confusing.

http://www.gazeta.ie/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=41697&view=findpost&p=178461

SimpleSam06 · 29-02-2008 09:24AM

Coffea wrote: »

I'm also horrified by what has happened and I'm utterly ashamed to be Irish.

Why are you ashamed to be Irish? You think Poland hasn't got scumbags and random murders?

BraziliaNZ wrote:

The Garda are a joke, only in Dublin would you see 6 year old kids verbally abusing the police and throwing things at them, I've seen this in town before. A lot of the coppers on the beat are hapless morons with no streetsmarts and no balls. They need to toughen up and take NO sh*t from these kids. Something wrong with their training I think.

The Gardai are doing the best that they can given the resources and legal constrictions they work under, which are there for very good reasons. If you want them to be able to do more, you should mention it to your representative, but remember special powers can be used on non-scumbags as well.

We've based our legal system and punishments system largely on the UK model, and to an extent the US model, which is in turn based on the idea of treating citizens in a humane and equal fashion. You can remove that if you really want to, but that will come with a price. Maybe its a price worth paying.

Wook · 29-02-2008 10:22AM

I don't think you should be ashamed to be Irish, since in my opinion it has nothing to do with nationality but more with how some people raise their kids.

as some of you pointed out, this doesn't happen overnight, to make a quick decision in stabbing someone in the head. Normally raised people would do such a thing perhaps in a bout of madness but these kids were almost 'feral' running the streets with not contest on their behavior for such a long time.

Me personally i blame the parents first, they clearly don't give a damn.
If i was the parent, damn i would publicly sit on my knees begging the polish family for forgiveness.

Degsy · 29-02-2008 10:32AM

missmatty wrote: »

Little scumbags, they won't rat on each other either. I'd be surprised if they get anyone for this.

Oh yes they will,snivelling,cowardly little shiites.

0ubliette · 29-02-2008 10:55AM

**** like this is so depressing to read. Makes me genuinely never want to leave my house again. What the hell is happening to this country? What is so rotten in our society that a 16yr old can stab TWO men to death with a ****ing screwdriver??
I know this makes me sound like an old fogey but kids have no disciplne these days, and zero respect for ANYONE. Used to be if you stepped out of line in school you got a ****in smack upside your head. Now its all 'oh you cant lay a finger on little johnny, its not right, you just have to let him do what he likes so we wontg et sued and he can grow up to be a murdering theiving bastard and a cancer in our society'. A parent cant even smack a child without fear of social services taking the kid away....good job hippies.

Coffea · 29-02-2008 11:06AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Why are you ashamed to be Irish? You think Poland hasn't got scumbags and random murders?

I'm ashamed to share a nationality with murderous thugs. What don't you understand about that? Yes, there are scumbags everywhere but these murders have brought the failings of our Government, Criminal Justice System and Irish society in general on to an international stage and I find it shameful.

Saying I'm ashamed is also my way of attempting to express my disgust at what has happened. Although, I don't think there are any words that would fully express my level of absolute disgust and repulsion at what happened to these two Polish men and at the amount of similar crimes that have happened in Dublin in recent months.

SimpleSam06 · 29-02-2008 11:38AM

Coffea wrote: »

I'm ashamed to share a nationality with murderous thugs. What don't you understand about that?

Everyone shares a nationality with murderous thugs. No exceptions. I feel no responsibility whatsoever for these individuals, and the fact that they come from my country has no impact on me or the pride I feel in being Irish. These twats don't represent me or my culture, and taking on some burden of blame for their completely aberrent behaviour is a bit silly.

0ubliette · 29-02-2008 11:49AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

These twats don't represent me or my culture,

Sadly they are more and more starting to represent irelands burgeoning 'yoof culture'.

watna · 29-02-2008 11:50AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Everyone shares a nationality with murderous thugs. No exceptions. I feel no responsibility whatsoever for these individuals, and the fact that they come from my country has no impact on me or the pride I feel in being Irish. These twats don't represent me or my culture, and taking on some burden of blame for their completely aberrent behaviour is a bit silly.

I'm pretty sure Polish people feel that Irish people shouldn't be ashamed too. On the news last night the Polish ambassador made a speech about how hoolaganism transcends borders and frontiers and it's a problem all nations face.

However, I do think we should be ashamed of the Irish jucidial system. I was just talking about this the other day, when you're in American you're scared of the police, here the gardai don't scare anyone.

DadaKopf · 29-02-2008 11:59AM

Wook wrote:

as some of you pointed out, this doesn't happen overnight, to make a quick decision in stabbing someone in the head. Normally raised people would do such a thing perhaps in a bout of madness but these kids were almost 'feral' running the streets with not contest on their behavior for such a long time.

Me personally i blame the parents first, they clearly don't give a damn.

Please do not take this to mean that I'm excusing their behaviour, but these kids, by and large they come from deprived and difficult backgrounds. Many of these kids have dropped out of school, perhaps because their parents are drug addicts, alcoholics, in prison, unemployed, they may have learning difficulties and in those communities, they compensate for their insecurities in horrifying ways. This kids have little to look up to, or live for, and they see their opportunities and horizons very differently to most of us.

I actually know about some of the kids involved in these murders. But I can't say I understand why they act like this.

All I'm saying is that it's easy for us to judge, and that its wrong and dangerous for societies reaction to reduce everything to 'drugs', 'alcohol', 'bad parenting', 'racism'. All of these may have played their part in the murders, but when politicians invoke these arguments, it just takes us further away from developing the solutions we need to implement.

Those solutions could be: restorative justice programmes, a massive increase in early-school-leaver schools and community centres, proper funding for support to the structurally unemployed including education, more funding for health and drugs/alcoholism programmes... the list goes on. If we're to take this issue seriously, we have to force our politicians take daring steps instead of calling for even more draconian laws and policing which really solves nothing.

SimpleSam06 · 29-02-2008 12:00PM

watna wrote: »

However, I do think we should be ashamed of the Irish jucidial system. I was just talking about this the other day, when you're in American you're scared of the police, here the gardai don't scare anyone.

As I said earlier, if you want to give them more power, do so. Be aware its a double edged blade though.

watna · 29-02-2008 12:07PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

As I said earlier, if you want to give them more power, do so. Be aware its a double edged blade though.

True, I guess it's a fine line.

gurramok · 29-02-2008 12:46PM

3rd teenager released this morning, 'file on way to DPP' :mad:

Dadakopf wrote:

Please do not take this to mean that I'm excusing their behaviour, but these kids, by and large they come from deprived and difficult backgrounds. Many of these kids have dropped out of school, perhaps because their parents are drug addicts, alcoholics, in prison, unemployed, they may have learning difficulties and in those communities, they compensate for their insecurities in horrifying ways. This kids have little to look up to, or live for, and they see their opportunities and horizons very differently to most of us.

I come from a single parent family and from a deprived area and didn't turn out scumbaggery(yet:D). Point being, thousands of people have the same background and never turn out to be scum.
One third of our workforce only have max Junior Cert, they ended up working for a living and not acting like scum.

astraboy · 29-02-2008 12:54PM

watna wrote: »

However, I do think we should be ashamed of the Irish jucidial system. I was just talking about this the other day, when you're in American you're scared of the police, here the gardai don't scare anyone.

Thats my point. I've lived in the US and found the cops courteous and helpful in minor incidents(buddy was a little lost and drunk one night and they called me and bought him back to the pub so we could take him home. Very kind of them), however they take NO CRAP from people disrespecting them or causing hassel and they are harsh when they need to be. In Ireland the cops are not even respected any more, they are viewed as ineffectual civil servants with little power. They need to be allowed to do their job and tackle this scum, with backup from the courts and Gov with harder sentences and harder prison time.

DadaKopf · 29-02-2008 01:04PM

gurramok wrote: »

3rd teenager released this morning, 'file on way to DPP' :mad:

I come from a single parent family and from a deprived area and didn't turn out scumbaggery(yet:D). Point being, thousands of people have the same background and never turn out to be scum.
One third of our workforce only have max Junior Cert, they ended up working for a living and not acting like scum.

... And you had access to booze, possibly drugs, did many of the things these bold kids did. But you didn't do this, true. So the issues are more complex, but these are contributing factors. Point is: there have to be solutions that work at the macro and micro levels.

Wook · 29-02-2008 01:31PM

DadaKopf wrote: »

... And you had access to booze, possibly drugs, did many of the things these bold kids did. But you didn't do this, true. So the issues are more complex, but these are contributing factors. Point is: there have to be solutions that work at the macro and micro levels.

Its called responsible parents

Ryaller · 29-02-2008 01:43PM

DadaKopf wrote: »

Many of these kids have dropped out of school, perhaps because their parents are drug addicts, alcoholics, in prison, unemployed.

DadaKopf wrote: »

All I'm saying is that it's easy for us to judge, and that its wrong and dangerous for societies reaction to reduce everything to 'drugs', 'alcohol', 'bad parenting', 'racism'.

See what you did there?

I couldn't give a rat's ass if these scumbags weren't hugged enough as a baby, or that they turn to ASB because they're bored, or whatever. Bored are you? Read a f*cking book, you might learn something.
These vermin should be locked in a dark hole for a long, long time.

0ubliette · 29-02-2008 01:55PM

astraboy wrote: »

Thats my point. I've lived in the US and found the cops courteous and helpful in minor incidents(buddy was a little lost and drunk one night and they called me and bought him back to the pub so we could take him home. Very kind of them), however they take NO CRAP from people disrespecting them or causing hassel and they are harsh when they need to be. In Ireland the cops are not even respected any more, they are viewed as ineffectual civil servants with little power. They need to be allowed to do their job and tackle this scum, with backup from the courts and Gov with harder sentences and harder prison time.

Yeah, noone has respect for them any more. Last saturday i was crossin the ha'penny bridge, and i saw a cop who had obviously been giving a verbal warning to some scumbag who looked to be in about his mid 30's or so, who was pissed out of his brain at 1pm. So the cop sends the guy on his way, and scumbag is like 'alreet tanks bud' and puts out his hand for the cop to shake, cop goes to take his hand this this, yoke, pulls his hand back and does the whole 'nyaaah nyaaah!!!' thing at him, high 5's his mate and they stroll off laughing, and abusing passers by as the cop looks on. Imagine if that was back int he 60's or 70's, yer man wouldve had his ****in skull broken by some big country boyo copper.

DadaKopf · 29-02-2008 01:56PM

Wook wrote:

Its called responsible parents

Sure, but lets assume the kids are brought up badly, or traumatised. We're talking about individual kids here. Is it so easy to just wish that away? What I'd like to know is: where are the support networks for kids when things in their private/family life go wrong?

Ryaller wrote:

These vermin should be locked in a dark hole for a long, long time.

Not saying they shouldn't be punished, but you think this is a long-term solution?

Dyr · 29-02-2008 01:57PM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

The Gardai are doing the best that they can given the resources and legal constrictions they work under, which are there for very good reasons. If you want them to be able to do more, you should mention it to your representative, but remember special powers can be used on non-scumbags as well.

We've based our legal system and punishments system largely on the UK model, and to an extent the US model, which is in turn based on the idea of treating citizens in a humane and equal fashion. You can remove that if you really want to, but that will come with a price. Maybe its a price worth paying.

sure they do

right to silence..nope
right to trial by jury.. nope
you can be convicted of certain offences on the word of a senior garda
you can be held for extended periods without being charged
you can be arrested for loitering, unless they changed that law

the gardai have beaucoup powers, but them and the govt have their own priorties about where they should be applied.

hotshots85 · 29-02-2008 02:41PM

lost marbles wrote: »

heres just some stuff that have affected me and my family from the scum
right im a taxi driver so we seem to attract the scum plus i see alot more than joe public .
twice ive had attempted robberies
i have a nepthew who has a steel plate in his head after trying to stop his car been stolen his father had a counter case for assualt against him by the scum
my son was robbed in the city center of his wallet and mobile by two little whores who had the gaul to answer the phone and give me their names and address in summerhill and invite me down to
"try get the bleeding phone back "
now this is just my family plus i hear loads of other storys from passengers and then bertie gets on the tv and says "its a rear occurrence for stuff like this to happen in ireland ".that ivory tower of his must and its rose tinted windows :mad:

Ah get out of it Lost marbles if that is your real user name, sure fecking al taxi drivers are the same making stuff up and exagerrating.

Wouldnt surprise me if you did it yourself!

I know who you are!!!!!!

Ryaller · 29-02-2008 02:45PM

DadaKopf wrote: »

Not saying they shouldn't be punished, but you think this is a long-term solution?

I sure do - why wouldn't it be? These vermin need to be made examples of.

lost marbles · 29-02-2008 02:56PM

hotshots85 wrote: »

Ah get out of it Lost marbles if that is your real user name, sure fecking al taxi drivers are the same making stuff up and exagerrating.

Wouldnt surprise me if you did it yourself!

I know who you are!!!!!!

now now whats your name again hotsnots dont be getting your knickers in a twist there sure did,nt i save you one night
and before some mod starts banning for name calling [should have been a pm but poor hotsnots cant do those things on his computer ] i know this poor fella not very brainy stuck behind a desk waiting to be let out
off topic i know but hay its FRIDAY .what am i saying its midweek for me

hotshots85 · 29-02-2008 03:03PM

lost marbles wrote: »

now now whats your name again hotsnots dont be getting your knickers in a twist there sure did,nt i save you one night
and before some mod starts banning for name calling [should have been a pm but poor hotsnots cant do those things on his computer ] i know this poor fella not very brainy stuck behind a desk waiting to be let out
off topic i know but hay its FRIDAY .what am i saying its midweek for me

You my friend are a racist!

This behaviour will not be tolerated on Boards

Banned for two weeks!

lost marbles · 29-02-2008 03:09PM

tomster wrote: »

http://www.gazeta.ie/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=41697&view=findpost&p=178461

hi tomster thank you for that but is what i posted confusing i went over and had a look and wish i could translate maybe its a dialect thing

kravmaga · 29-02-2008 03:13PM

The Garda are now looking at a double murder enquiry here as the 2nd Polish man has died in hospital.

I would like to apologise to the Polish community in Drimnagh and am ashamed to what happened to these hard working innocent victims.

I intend to give a contribution set up for their families, AIB , Naas Rd branch is handling this I believe.

Bertie Aherne , has apologised to the Polish people whilst addressing the Polish parliament today ,as he was visiting Poland on his European tour.

What has happened to our society thats drives a number of teenagers to murder 2 human beings with a screwdriver, what has gone wrong here, why so much hate in these young people. Where are the parents in this , my opinion is that they are equally responsible for the actions of their off-spring.

What do people think about Curfews, ASBO's , Electronic tagging as a solution to Loitering teenagers outside of shops, Off Licences,take aways etc

I feel these murderers need to be caught fast and an example be made with long custodial sentences to set an example.

Any witnesses should contact the GARDA confidential telephone number with any information on the assailants who carried out the double murders.

Any comments welcome on this topic.....................

lost marbles · 29-02-2008 03:29PM

Terry wrote: »

Including the "lost marbles" bit?
I'd imagine that would be a bit confusing.

i dont get what you are saying ????

hotshots85 · 29-02-2008 03:41PM

SOA has gone a bit mental rusty! Wanna sort that out!

Hate that!

kravmaga · 29-02-2008 04:47PM

I really hope the local community come forward and give the names of these murderers to the Dectectives investigating the 2 murders.

The local community need to be stong and face up to the evil in their community.

Locals must know these teenagers who were loitering otside takeaway/shops in question, I am sure they were hanging around this location for a long time, they should be known to the locals.

This concept on not informing on your mates business has to stop, if it was your son or daughter, brother would they feel the same way.

I am really disgusted by the murders does this now mean we need to have a knive or baseball bat to go into a local shop now for protection.

donaghs · 29-02-2008 06:28PM

If the law is no use in cases like this where there been serious crime committed, then its only a matter of time before this sort of thing reoccurs, and vigilantism makes a comeback.

the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

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