YAY!!this scumbag had a bad day!!

TwoShedsJackson · 28-02-2008 05:07PM

Raspberry wrote: »

I'm not a home owner, but the house I live in has been broken in to four or five times in the past 10 years and valuables have been stolen. In every case the gardai were informed and the criminals who were well known to the gardai were caught. What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

No I'm not trolling. I'm just stating that life is more valuable than possessions and property. Killing is only really justified in self defense or the defense of others, but even then it should only be a last resort.

Congratulations so, I've reported six or seven crimes to the Gardai over the last fifteen years including one assault, three breakins/theft from where I work, and two attempted car thefts and in all cases absolutely sweet fu<k all was done. In fact, I never heard another word from anyone about any of these crimes, ever.

When you say life is more important then posessions and property, you are right. However people also have a right to protect themselves and their property, and frankly what this man did was quite understandable. Try to think about how you might react if someone was in your home and holding a knife to the throat of your two year old child.

Sam Vimes · 28-02-2008 05:31PM

Raspberry wrote: »

Stabbing someone for breaking in to a house is not justice. What the burglar had been killed? How can you justify killing someone over probably a few hundred quids worth of stolen goods? I think the person who owned the house is just as much of a scumbag for stabbing the guy. The only way I could think that stabbing another human being is right is if he was in fear for his life.

what if the burglar had been killed? i'd go and piss on his grave. good riddance to him.

for all the guy knew the burglars were off their heads on heroin. they could have done anything if they'd been given the chance. if i found someone in my house i would assume they were prepared to kill me and act first

watna · 28-02-2008 05:52PM

Raspberry wrote: »

I'm not a home owner, but the house I live in has been broken in to four or five times in the past 10 years and valuables have been stolen. In every case the gardai were informed and the criminals who were well known to the gardai were caught. What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

No I'm not trolling. I'm just stating that life is more valuable than possessions and property. Killing is only really justified in self defense or the defense of others, but even then it should only be a last resort.

As said above, according to reports he held a knife to a two year olds throat. If that's not threatening someone's life, I don't know what is.

The homeowner had every right to whatever he could to protect his families life. Someone that can do that do a child is sick in the head, who knows what else they'd do.

GLaDOS · 28-02-2008 05:56PM

Raspberry wrote: »

I'm not a home owner, but the house I live in has been broken in to four or five times in the past 10 years and valuables have been stolen. In every case the gardai were informed and the criminals who were well known to the gardai were caught. What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

No I'm not trolling. I'm just stating that life is more valuable than possessions and property. Killing is only really justified in self defense or the defense of others, but even then it should only be a last resort.

The had a knife and hammer

You think they wanted to do a bit of sneaky DIY?

Dashticle · 28-02-2008 05:58PM

Even if he had not threatened the child, the guy robbing the house had it coming. People should of course be allowed to use force to defend their property.

astraboy · 28-02-2008 06:00PM

2 guys broke into his home with a hammer and a knife. They were hardly there to cook breakfast for the family lets be honest about it! The prick of a burglar got less then he deserved. You break into a persons home and violate their property, possibly hurt their family, you take what comes. If you don't want to get stabbed don't rob houses.

Dashticle · 28-02-2008 06:01PM

Raspberry wrote: »

I'm not a home owner, but the house I live in has been broken in to four or five times in the past 10 years and valuables have been stolen. In every case the gardai were informed and the criminals who were well known to the gardai were caught. What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

And what, it's tough luck if you happen to be robbed from guys who are more competent at being criminals and not well known? Lucky you that the guys that robbed your house were caught, but it's often the case that the gards don't give a **** because they know unless the burglars are still climbing out the window when they arrive, they're likely to get away with it.

rubadub · 28-02-2008 06:18PM

Raspberry wrote: »

What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

IMO it is the burglars who value property more than their own lives. They are the ones risking their lives for a few quid. They know what they are getting into, do you really think the other burglars are thinking "the cheek of the bastard, all we did was break into his house, hold knife to his kids throat, and he goes and stabs me!"

Should he just have politely asked them to leave?

Raspberry · 28-02-2008 06:22PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Try to think about how you might react if someone was in your home and holding a knife to the throat of your two year old child.

You'll find the answer to this question in one of my previous posts where I said the use of deadly force is only right in cases of self defense, used as a last resort. You should re-read my posts in this thread because you've seemed to miss my point since apparently you think that I claimed that deadly force was wrong no matter what the circumstances.

Also, to everyone else. My posts justifying my stance were not aimed specifically at this case, they were more aimed at the general attitude of the responses in this thread. I would say that this guys reaction was justified due to the fact that the intruders had weapons and were threatening his family.

rubadub wrote: »

IMO it is the burglars who value property more than their own lives. They are the ones risking their lives for a few quid. They know what they are getting into, do you really think the other burglars are thinking "the cheek of the bastard, all we did was break into his house, hold knife to his kids throat, and he goes and stabs me!"

Should he just have politely asked them to leave?

Thats a very backwards way of thinking. Why do you feel you have a right to kill someone who is trying to steal from you? Both are wrong, how ever killing is far worse than theft.

Agamemnon · 28-02-2008 06:32PM

Raspberry wrote: »

Thats a very backwards way of thinking. Why do you feel you have a right to kill someone who is trying to steal from you? Both are wrong, how ever killing is far worse than theft.

There's a very simple solution to this problem. Just tell the burglars not to break into any more houses and there will be no danger of any of them being killed. They'll listen to reason, won't they?

Raspberry · 28-02-2008 06:38PM

Agamemnon wrote: »

There's a very simple solution to this problem. Just tell the burglars not to break into any more houses and there will be no danger of any of them being killed. They'll listen to reason, won't they?

Actually no, I've changed my mind. We should just get all the criminals in the world, no matter what their crime is, and then we should gas them. That's a pretty good solution. They shouldn't have commit the crime in the first place. amirite?

Seriously, that's the logic behind the arguments in this thread.

TwoShedsJackson · 28-02-2008 06:40PM

Raspberry wrote: »

You'll find the answer to this question in one of my previous posts where I said the use of deadly force is only right in cases of self defense, used as a last resort. You should re-read my posts in this thread because you've seemed to miss my point since apparently you think that I claimed that deadly force was wrong no matter what the circumstances.

Maybe you should be re-reading the reports in the newspaper where it states that one of these guys held a knife to the throat of a two year child and threatened to kill the child. Does that not come under the 'self-defence' bracket for you.

Or should the child be allowed to be harmed as it's too young to defend itself and the father should do nothing because strictly speaking he isn't defending himself? :rolleyes:

phasers · 28-02-2008 06:41PM

the homeowner is gonna get sued now

Raspberry · 28-02-2008 06:42PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Maybe you should be re-reading the reports in the newspaper where it states that one of these guys held a knife to the throat of a two year child and threatened to kill the child. Does that not come under the 'self-defence' bracket for you.

Or should the child be allowed to be harmed as it's too young to defend itself and the father should do nothing because strictly speaking he isn't defending himself? :rolleyes:

Well done. In the very post that I tell you that you should read my posts more carefully, I post the following:

Raspberry wrote:

Also, to everyone else. My posts justifying my stance were not aimed specifically at this case, they were more aimed at the general attitude of the responses in this thread. I would say that this guys reaction was justified due to the fact that the intruders had weapons and were threatening his family.

TwoShedsJackson · 28-02-2008 06:43PM

Raspberry wrote: »

Actually no, I've changed my mind. We should just get all the criminals in the world, no matter what their crime is, and then we should gas them. That's a pretty good solution. They shouldn't have commit the crime in the first place. amirite?

Seriously, that's the logic behind the arguments in this thread.

I don't advocating 'gassing' them. If they break into someones house and get stabbed as a result, tough $hit. They shouldn't commit the crime in the first place. If they do, they deserve whatever they get.

Ideally they should be getting a decent education and not be being brought up as scumbags but clearly somewhere along the line, someone's fallen short.

Sam Spade · 28-02-2008 06:48PM

Suspected burglar stabbed at house in north Dublin

Wednesday February 27 2008

Gardai in Dublin are investigating an incident in north Dublin this morning in which a suspected burglar was stabbed.

The Gardai say they were alerted shortly before 4am and told that a house had been broken into on Templeview Row in Clarehall and a male culprit had been apprehended.

Two men apparently broke into the house armed with a knife and a hammer.

A couple and three children were at home at the time and the man of the house chased the suspected burglars.

A confrontation took place and the struggle ended up in the kitchen of a neighbouring house, where the alleged 21-year-old culprit remained lying on the floor until Gardai arrived.

He had sustained stab wounds and was taken to Beaumont Hospital, where his condition is not believed to be life threatening.

No arrests have been made and investigations are ongoing.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Personally, I have no problem with what the guy did. I think anybody who breaks into a house with any kind of weapon deserves what happens to him.

The problem that the house owner here might have is that the guy seems to have been stabbed outside the house....

TwoShedsJackson · 28-02-2008 06:52PM

That article doesn't say where the guy was or wasn't stabbed. No doubt we'll find out when the little fu<ker takes the homeowner to court.

Quigs Snr · 28-02-2008 07:04PM

The trouble is that in the heat of the moment rationality goes out the window. I was burgled several years ago, the GF at the time said someone was in the house (she often used to think that), so bleary eyed I marched downstairs in my underpants thinking it was the TV or something and sure enough, 4 armed scumbags waving butcher knifes and bats. Herself followed me down, they threatened her with the knife, I pulled her away, they legged it, I tried to call the police but they had cut the phones, so I lost it, grabbed a rifle and went after them. They gave me the slip. It would have been a disaster if I caught em, because that night I realised that I could kill someone if I had to, when I saw her there with a knife to her, that was it - the red mist came down. You can postulate all you want about justice, peace, love, save the whales man, but when its you, you don't think about the consequences, this is your house, your stuff you worked hard for and your loved ones. You don't sit there and evaluate the danger. You go into shock. Some people curl up in a ball and freeze, I like this guy, lash out. I have no doubt I would have shot someone that night, not because of them taking my stuff, but because of the threat I felt and when they fled, the rage that they had the cheek to come into my house and do this, I was locked, loaded and reminding myself of target drills, making sure to steady before I shot and working out the distance I needed to be at. Crazy stuff. I look back now and can remember everything. Funnily enough although I wasn't thinking rationaly I was thinking clearly. I didn't occur to me that trying to put an end to a fleeing scumbag would put me in jail, nope, all I was thinking about was making sure that I made the 5 rounds in the clip count.

I scared myself really, so I got rid of the gun, sold it to a Garda shortly after mostly at the behest of the better half. To be honest I would rather have kept it, but I think as scared as she was of the robbers, she was more scared of what I might do in the heat of the moment. To put this in perspective, I am a mild mannered type who does not get into fights, is and never has been violent. I guess you just do not know until you are in that situation.

Its a traumatic event too, we eventually split after many years together and that trauma was identified as one of the places where it started to go wrong, she got very depressed, waking up in the night etc.. eventually we had to move house because she felt the place was violated and that it wasn't ours anymore, it ruined it for her, and the subsequent stress of another big move and the money troubles that came with it probably had a big hand in putting an end to us too. Even these days, 5 years on, I am extremely security conscious, paranoid even.

I don't feel sorry for the scumbag who got stabbed, no loss to society. I feel sorry for the guy who felt he had to do it. They guy who went to bed that night after watching tv and putting the kids to bed, who was forced to inflict bodily harm on someone and has to live with that.

For the robbers its like this, you come in with a knife, I have to assume you will use it, especially if family and loved ones are depending on me, I don't know what you are capable of, I do know that you are capable of walking into a strangers home with a weapon, therefore I have to do whatever it takes to make sure you cannot use it. If that means sticking it in your throat. Too bad, I don't want to do it, I wanted to get up, have my breakfast and go to work tomorrow, not be in a police station with this on my conscience, maybe its not justice, but you know what, you brought it on yourself, its more of an injustice to me.

nlgbbbblth · 28-02-2008 07:21PM

So let's assume the homeowner is charged with stabbing the burglar.

Will the burglars be charged with breaking into the house?

or is it a case of (yet again)

punish the retaliator not the instigator?

MissHoneyBun · 28-02-2008 07:57PM

A legend in his own underpants

rubadub · 28-02-2008 08:09PM

Originally Posted by Raspberry View Post
What makes you all think that your property is worth more than someones life?

rubadub wrote: »

IMO it is the burglars who value property more than their own lives. They are the ones risking their lives for a few quid. They know what they are getting into, do you really think the other burglars are thinking "the cheek of the bastard, all we did was break into his house, hold knife to his kids throat, and he goes and stabs me!"

Should he just have politely asked them to leave?

Raspberry wrote: »

Thats a very backwards way of thinking. Why do you feel you have a right to kill someone who is trying to steal from you? Both are wrong, how ever killing is far worse than theft.

I never said I feel I have the right to kill over some simple petty theft. My post was in reference to you saying "you all" think your property is worth more than someones life. I think only 2 posters and yourself mentioned killing. One said he would kill if his families welfare was in danger. The other said he would presume somebody illegally in their house was prepared to kill them.

My point is that it is the burglars who do not value their lives. They read the papers and see what happens, what can they expect, some burglar might be reading this and think twice about going into a house. These burglars threatened to kill a child, for property, they value the property more than the child. By putting themselves in danger of being injured or killed they do not respect their own lives either.

You keep talking about killing,YOU brought it up, saying he could have died. If the man punched him in the face he could have died too. I don't know where he stabbed him but I doubt he intended to kill him.

Like the other poster I too would presume somebody in my house carrying a knife was prepared to kill me. You are talking of killing and stealing. Most posters are not mentioning the monetary value of their goods at all. It is not like they are saying "some lad stole my jacket in the pub, I will now slit their throat". Everybody is talking of self defence, the guy needn't be robbing anything, he is a threat to their and their families lives. You said yourself killing is worse than theft. And threatening the kids life is a more serious crime than nicking some cds.

Raspberry · 28-02-2008 09:32PM

rubadub wrote: »

I never said I feel I have the right to kill over some simple petty theft. My post was in reference to you saying "you all" think your property is worth more than someones life. I think only 2 posters and yourself mentioned killing. One said he would kill if his families welfare was in danger. The other said he would presume somebody illegally in their house was prepared to kill them.

My point is that it is the burglars who do not value their lives. They read the papers and see what happens, what can they expect, some burglar might be reading this and think twice about going into a house. These burglars threatened to kill a child, for property, they value the property more than the child. By putting themselves in danger of being injured or killed they do not respect their own lives either.

You keep talking about killing,YOU brought it up, saying he could have died. If the man punched him in the face he could have died too. I don't know where he stabbed him but I doubt he intended to kill him.

Like the other poster I too would presume somebody in my house carrying a knife was prepared to kill me. You are talking of killing and stealing. Most posters are not mentioning the monetary value of their goods at all. It is not like they are saying "some lad stole my jacket in the pub, I will now slit their throat". Everybody is talking of self defence, the guy needn't be robbing anything, he is a threat to their and their families lives. You said yourself killing is worse than theft. And threatening the kids life is a more serious crime than nicking some cds.

Again, I wasn't talking about this specific case. My first post was, but after my first post I was referring to the attitude that was present in the thread towards burglars and how people were saying how they'd kill burglars and such if they had been breaking in to their hose. My point still remains and was directed at these people.

Volvoboy · 28-02-2008 09:48PM

This happend literally around the corner from where i live, and to be quite honest being put in the same situation i would have done the exact same thing if i was put in the same situation and would feel absolute no guilt in doing it too.

Its a sign of the ****ed up times we live in now, the gent will probably end up being sued, and the absolute ****ing scum will get away.

-VB-

astrofool · 28-02-2008 09:52PM

Raspberry wrote: »

Again, I wasn't talking about this specific case. My first post was, but after my first post I was referring to the attitude that was present in the thread towards burglars and how people were saying how they'd kill burglars and such if they had been breaking in to their hose. My point still remains and was directed at these people.

The second someone breaks into your property, they are a threat to your safety, if ANYONE threatened my safety, and those that I lived with, I wouldn't even think before doing whatever it took to incapacitate that person, if it meant killing them, so be it. Of course, I'd hope that nobody's safety was put in danger at all, but the person trespassing on your property has already gone past that point.

Ideally, you'd break their neck or something, in self defence, rather than outright killing them.

tech77 · 28-02-2008 10:12PM

Raspberry wrote: »

Stabbing someone for breaking in to a house is not justice. What the burglar had been killed? How can you justify killing someone over probably a few hundred quids worth of stolen goods? I think the person who owned the house is just as much of a scumbag for stabbing the guy. The only way I could think that stabbing another human being is right is if he was in fear for his life.

Troll.
Yawn.

watna · 28-02-2008 10:15PM

tech77 wrote: »

Troll.
Yawn.

+1 I was just thinking exactly the same thing.

tech77 · 28-02-2008 10:17PM

BigEejit wrote: »

God I hope you are trolling

Bleeding heart liberal sentiments are half the reason why we are in the state we are in now. Scumbag burgulars should have no rights, if you catch one in your property you should be fully entitled to beat the shít out of him and then call the police....

It has to be a troll.

AckwelFoley · 28-02-2008 10:27PM

Ive broken my fist twice.

The first time i broke my fist i hit a block wall while on the phone to my ex girlfriend while she cried telling me that there was a burgler standing at the end of her bed 10 mins earlier with a crow bar in his hand as she slept at 3 am in Galway. I for one dont care about burglers or their rights, the anger i wnet into after hearing this would havebeen vented on them if i was there that night

Padraig Nally ftw.

PS..second time i broke my fist..was when my boss was just talking to much... i hit the table.. he stopped talking. :rolleyes:

tech77 · 28-02-2008 10:28PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The had a knife and hammer

You think they wanted to do a bit of sneaky DIY?

The two year old being threatened rubbishes that Raspberry guy's argument.

But apart from that as ScienceNerd says if two guys enter your house tooled up, all bets are off.
They deserve what they get.
Personally i'm delighted.

Only caveat being: some may say he put his family in more danger by doing what he did.
All's well that ends well though

Can't believe someone is equivocating on whether the scummers deserved it though

:rolleyes:

Raspberry · 28-02-2008 10:31PM

I have a different opinion than you in which I don't think it's justified stabbing someone who tries to steal from you, therefore I am a troll. Are you actually serious?

I've put forward a valid argument. You can either contribute to the discussion, or else you can go on spouting crap like "troll" and "+1". Either way beyond this post here I will not be responding to your comments unless they have something constructive to bring to the table.

YAY!!this scumbag had a bad day!!

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