the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

kmick · 28-02-2008 12:23PM

Boggles wrote: »

Parents own there kids until they are 18. If my dog bit someone, I'd be accountable, same difference IMO.

Easy to say but id hate to have to take the fall for someone else - you do your best with your kids. You can keep your dog on a leash but a 17 year old does whatever thye like.

These guys will get what they deserve. It must have been some attack for them both to die. Lots of lives ruined its crap.

skywalker · 28-02-2008 12:31PM

This thread was the first Id heard about this. Shocking stuff. They should never get out of prison for something like that. Agreed with whoever said they better not end up with concurrent sentences.

seamus · 28-02-2008 12:33PM

kmick wrote: »

you do your best with your kids.

Most people do. Those who don't, breed pieces of **** like this.

calahans · 28-02-2008 12:36PM

Jesus its amazing the vitriol being spouted here! They should have been aborted!!! Stick a screwdriver in their eyes!!!!!!

What has occurred is terrible, but you cant blame the parents. I grew up in a large family with good parents. All bar one of us was grand and caused no trouble, except for one brother. He was a terrible kid and was always in trouble. When he was 15 we had a local vigilante call to the door and tell my parents that there would be trouble unless he was brought under control. This upset my parents but there was nothing they could do. If they locked him in he would climb out a window. He took a few beatings from my father (nothing bad) but wouldn't stop him. I stress that the other 5 kids were grand. I suppose now he would be diagnosed with ADHT or something. He turned out fine when he hit his late twenties.

Revenge or vigilantes is not the way. Where does it stop? If someone is accused of rape should we cut their balls off or let the court decide?

Dyr · 28-02-2008 12:50PM

My sisters kids had terrible problems with some little scummer in their area, the cops basically told her that they knew he was a psycho and some day they'd be hauling him in for murder but because of his age there was **** all he could do.

delinquent cull ftw

SheroN · 28-02-2008 12:51PM

calahans wrote: »

Revenge or vigilantes is not the way. Where does it stop? If someone is accused of rape should we cut their balls off or let the court decide?

Let the courts decide if they're guilty. If they are, cut thier balls off.

sombaht · 28-02-2008 01:08PM

you cant blame the parents.

The simple fact of the matter remains that a parent is responsible for their children until they reach the age of 18. No "ifs", "buts" or "ands". The effectiveness of locking them in a room, beating them etc is a whole different topic and would require a thread of its own.

Cheers,
sombaht

The Hill Billy · 28-02-2008 01:31PM

And another thing that písses me off is that these ****ers are being released after being questioned & charged. For Christ's sake they stabbed two innocent men in the head with a screwdriver! They are a danger to society. Surely it is the duty of the state to protect the rest of us from these ****ers & remand them in custody until their trial. Yeah, yeah, innocent until proven guilty & all that - but just look at the amount of crime being committed by those already out on bail for other offences. (Frog Ward anyone?)

ntlbell · 28-02-2008 01:45PM

seamus wrote: »

I think that if your child gets convicted of a headline crime (murder, rape, etc), then each parent should have to serve half of the minimum sentence and all of their children should be taken from them and permanently put into care.

Raising a person who as a child can murder another person takes actual effort. Plain old neglect isn't sufficient. If your child murders someone (as a child), you're clearly incapable of raising children and guilty of criminal neglect at the very least.

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

seamus · 28-02-2008 01:54PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

I'm not talking about your average delinquent here. I'm not talking about kids that are brought home by the Gardai every second weekend and who throw rocks at busses. I'm talking about kids that have gone so far down the road of dirtbaggery that they're committing subhuman atrocities.

Murder and rape and other crimes where you completely and utterly disregard another human life are hitting the bottom of the barrel. They're reserved for people with little or no morals.

As I say, it takes serious effort on the part of a parent to turn someone so low before they hit 18. If your child is convicted of such a crime it's time to say; "Game Over. You've failed as a parent and your extreme neglect has resulted in the death of another human being". The point of having children is to produce a better offspring and impart on them your knowledge and skills and push them to do better than you did.
Spawning a child murderer is a pretty good indicator that you ****ed up good and proper in this regard and you don't deserve another chance to try, lest someone else end up dead.

danniemcq · 28-02-2008 01:59PM

to the ones sayin death to the scumbags (or similer words) thats to good for the little ****s, cripple them for life castrate them in public. shot in the head pish over to quick

Idbatterim · 28-02-2008 02:03PM

if one of the perpetrators is 19, he can be tried as an adult. I hope the scum rots in jail.

ambro25 · 28-02-2008 02:07PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Wow, I have to say I'm pretty surprised at your thought process here for you're usually a very well leveled headed guy..........

I'm still waiting for someone to come with a way that parents can know where there kids are 100% of the time 100% of the time if you have kids you know bar locking them up it's almost impossible and anyone who states under wise is delusional........

I'm all for the parents to be punished in some way but for to help out the tax payer so we don't pay the 100k a year for there sons time in mosney.

The parents should be made fund the stay in prison and where they're out of work they fund it by doing community service etc

Putting parents in prison is just madness

Works without hiccups in other large European countries, e.g. France, Belgium, Luxembourg (for sure) and Germany (i seem to recall).

That's in adition to the parents pay for the criminal damages (in case they don't have civil insurance to pay out, which is e.g. compulsory for school kids in France, Benelux and Germany). Yup - kiddie nicks the Astra down the road for a spin and gets nabbed? Bailiffs turn up and repo everything to the tune of the damage under Court Order. Simple, equitable (in civil law jurisdictions, no less!), love it.

Fancy that, countries where "parental responsibility" still means just that

seamus wrote: »

As I say, it takes serious effort on the part of a parent to turn someone so low before they hit 18. If your child is convicted of such a crime it's time to say; "Game Over. You've failed as a parent and your extreme neglect has resulted in the death of another human being".

I'd say that, on the contrary, it proves that no parenting efforts were expended whatsoever to try to turn someone into an even semi-decent person.

Rightly, the parent should be pulled up on it, to the extent of the failure.

Latchy · 28-02-2008 02:13PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Break down of law and order followed by ineptitude of police/legal system?

Yes, thats exactly whats happening in th uk .We have had in one weeek 3 phycopatic serial murderers/rapists given life sentences .All 3 had previously commited serious offences and only for the ineptitude of police /legal system might well have being locked up long ago and not free to continue their horrific crimes .How many like them are still out there ? .

Howjoe1 · 28-02-2008 02:13PM

it makes me ashamed to be Irish when something like this happens.

The person have a responsiblity. It's a vicious circle insofar as the future kids of the perpurtrators will turn out even worse.

So much for the Celtic Tiger.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 28-02-2008 02:16PM

wtf? a tiger killed someone not too long ago in dublin zoo.

the celtic tiger is alive and kicking

well, biting.

gazzer · 28-02-2008 02:20PM

Its such a sad sad story. Those poor guys. According to some reports I read that 16 year old scumbag is from the inner city. Him and his delinquent parents (who are alledgedly known to the gardai) where 'transferred' from their council flat out to Drimnagh and that 16 year olds mates started to come from the inner city out to Drimnagh to hang around with their 'waste of a human life' friend. So many people seem to be outraged about this case in the area. I wonder though will anybody stand up to be counted and admit they know what happened (if they have seen anything that is).

The brother of one of the guys who was arrested (19 year old one) was on Adrian Kennedy the other night saying even though his brother didnt kill the guys and even though they both know who did it they will not 'rat' on him cos thats not how you do things out there. FCKWITS..

galwayrush · 28-02-2008 02:21PM

How come we can breed such scum in Ireland, and when we do, we have no means of halting their descent into crime, we send them to prisons for short periods of time, although long enough for them to learn more from fellow Scum and come out even worse scum than they originally were. Death is too good for them, but at least it will rid us of the useless cancer on society.

SheroN · 28-02-2008 02:41PM

According to the front of the Herald ( I know it's a piece of sh1t) but i happened to see it in the shop at lunch.

The 16 year old high fived some of his mates moments before he was hauled off by the gardai. Apparently one of his mates who was in the crowd shouted "go back to ****ing Poland" or some such.

nikki 122 · 28-02-2008 02:52PM

this country is seriously corrupt we need to take action against all this racism and violence.. does anyone have an opinion on the parents being punished?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 28-02-2008 02:53PM

rofl

read the ****ing thread before you post

BigEejit · 28-02-2008 02:57PM

Some of the problem is that they are not afraid of the repercussions, the sentences handed out are usually a joke (or seem to be ok, but then the scumbag is left out early)..

Prison time should be bloody hard. Digging holes and filling them in again if nothing better is available. Or if they could figure out a way of getting the prisoner to actually work enough to cover the cost of him being in jail in the first place would be ideal (and if he picked up a trade its a win/win situation)

In the news in the Uk there have been several stories that shocked me recently ... absolutely NO prison spaces left, where are the newly sentenced scumbags going to go???

sickpuppy · 28-02-2008 03:00PM

What a waste of life and i feel sorry for the men and there familys.
Theses scumbags dont care what nationality someone is they have no respect for life.
It is very possible that it was racially motivated.
The irish justice system is ajoke the main suspect has a string of convictions for carrying stanley knives and other blades.
Just last week a guy was bludgeoned to death in limerick he had killed a girl in a stolen car 20 years previous and then he was charged with manslaughter when he killed some other guy,and yet hes back on the streets.
I fear that this will not be the end of this story i can see many more attacks like this in the future.
All it well do will alienate the large foreign presence in ireland.
The resentment of foreign workers in ireland is growing especially with a slowdown in the economy,
with many especially unskilled construction workers losing there jobs and many being replaced by foreign guys i have seen it first hand the last few years.
I fear in the near future that horrific crimes like this will be more common place and large scale race problems will arise.

lost marbles · 28-02-2008 03:05PM

SheroN wrote: »

According to the front of the Herald ( I know it's a piece of sh1t) but i happened to see it in the shop at lunch.

The 16 year old high fived some of his mates moments before he was hauled off by the gardai. Apparently one of his mates who was in the crowd shouted "go back to ****ing Poland" or some such.

guaranteed the little **** is sobbing his little heart out looking for his mammy and getting the comforting hug from his social worker while those big bold guards are hassling the poor mite [sarcastic hat on] jesus whats to be done with the likes of these scum .maybe like rats poison them
release a load of bad coke or heroin or e onto the streets really cheap and cull the f#cking lot

Loomis · 28-02-2008 03:17PM

Murdering someone because they don't do you a 'favour' is beyond comprehension. These people are, obvious scumbags aside, truly braindead. To kill someone because they won't buy you alcohol is the same mentality as telling your mother you hate her because she didn't buy you sweets when you asked. Obviously the reactions aren't the same but their view of them clearly must be. How else can you explain how they arrived at the decision to do it. They must see it as inconsequential. As staggering as that is to get your head around. They were hardly thinking 'Fecker won't get us drink, I know, I'll stick this in his neck and he might change his mind' so it must be the other

bartholomewbinn · 28-02-2008 03:21PM

sickpuppy wrote: »

What a waste of life and i feel sorry for the men and there familys.
Theses scumbags dont care what nationality someone is they have no respect for life.
It is very possible that it was racially motivated.
The irish justice system is ajoke the main suspect has a string of convictions for carrying stanley knives and other blades.
Just last week a guy was bludgeoned to death in limerick he had killed a girl in a stolen car 20 years previous and then he was charged with manslaughter when he killed some other guy,and yet hes back on the streets.
I fear that this will not be the end of this story i can see many more attacks like this in the future.
All it well do will alienate the large foreign presence in ireland.
The resentment of foreign workers in ireland is growing especially with a slowdown in the economy,
with many especially unskilled construction workers losing there jobs and many being replaced by foreign guys i have seen it first hand the last few years.
I fear in the near future that horrific crimes like this will be more common place and large scale race problems will arise.

Yes, I think you could be right, and these were polish guys, same as us except for the language. Imagine what sort of treatment Africans in this position will get in the future as the economy slows right down and work, especially unskilled work becomes scarce. Then we will see the full picture of Irish racism which will not shock the majority of us but will be a nice wake up call for the PC idiots who still imagine that the Irish are not as racist as other Europeans.

ashisback · 28-02-2008 04:09PM

i was sick to the stomach when i heard that the 2nd man was killed just because these teenagers wanted to get drunk my boyfriend works with polish lads and he said he wounlnt blame the polish if they wanted to go home

rip polish guys

ambro25 · 28-02-2008 04:16PM

Putting aside the horrible reality of the abject, crass, bottomless imbecility involved in this case for a moment -

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

Yes, I think you could be right, and these were polish guys, same as us except for the language. Imagine what sort of treatment Africans in this position will get in the future as the economy slows right down and work, especially unskilled work becomes scarce. Then we will see the full picture of Irish racism which will not shock the majority of us but will be a nice wake up call for the PC idiots who still imagine that the Irish are not as racist as other Europeans.

That situation has played out in just about every single Eurpean country over the past 100 years or more, from the Urals to the Atlantic and from the Arctic circle down to the Med/Agean Seas, every time the downturn arrived, which always followed the boom times. Early 1900s and again early 1950s with the economically-migrating Italians, early 1970s with the economically-migrating North Africans, early 1990s with the economically-migrating Turks, throughout the entire century with the economically-migrating Mid-Europeans and political refugees (Balkans, ex-French colonials, Lebanese) etc, etc.

And of course repeated ad eternam since times immemorial the world over.

Whatever on Earth makes people think that the same won't eventually happen here? It's human nature, as hardwired in people's psyches as food, sleep and social interaction :rolleyes:

Latchy · 28-02-2008 04:28PM

Listening to the Liveline programme on radio over the last week it is saddening to hear about the two murders of the polish boys and also other people tales of murder burglary, and assaults which seems to be on the increase. As one man who's daughters boyfriend was murdered in horrific circumstances pointed out ' the judges who pass out these tap on the hand sentences are living in their ivory tours and still far removed from the reality which the familys of these victims of very serious crimes are left to deal with ' .

The man went on to say that it was his and the victims family who got the life sentence and not the killers .Thousends /millions more like him up and down the country and in the uk ( like the familys who saw 3 life sentences handed down in the uk this week ) will agree with this man .

Bertie Ahearn said today in a radio interview in poland '' this was a terrible attack on two hardworking polish men but thankfully a rare occurence in ireland '' were is he at ?

People are being burgled and molested in their homes and attacked on the streets every day of the week in ireland .

Lizzykins · 28-02-2008 04:29PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm not talking about your average delinquent here. I'm not talking about kids that are brought home by the Gardai every second weekend and who throw rocks at busses. I'm talking about kids that have gone so far down the road of dirtbaggery that they're committing subhuman atrocities.

Murder and rape and other crimes where you completely and utterly disregard another human life are hitting the bottom of the barrel. They're reserved for people with little or no morals.

As I say, it takes serious effort on the part of a parent to turn someone so low before they hit 18. If your child is convicted of such a crime it's time to say; "Game Over. You've failed as a parent and your extreme neglect has resulted in the death of another human being". The point of having children is to produce a better offspring and impart on them your knowledge and skills and push them to do better than you did.
Spawning a child murderer is a pretty good indicator that you ****ed up good and proper in this regard and you don't deserve another chance to try, lest someone else end up dead.

Couldn't agree more with everything you've said Seamus. I'd be interested to see what sentence these guys get when they're caught. Personally I'd be an advocate of a life sentence meaning life and hard labour in prison. Sewing mailbags 14 hours a day and no food until you get your quota done. Forget TVs and Playstations-you've lost the right to them.

Considering they gave a guy 12 years this week for shooting a guard they should give these lowlives 30+. As far as I know in Britain a judge can give someone a whole life tarriff so they never get out. Time for the judiciary in this country to come out of their ivory towers and Bertie to shut up with the crap and earn his salary.

the two Polish guy's that got stabbed

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