Owning an SUV means you can do what you like

passive · 25-02-2008 01:01AM

ronoc wrote: »

God you people really are something else. Go ahead keep trying to justify it to yourself. Wait until you get your car keyed for no reason some day. Enjoy the big bill:):):)

And here is where our paths diverge and our argument stems, though we are all at heart rational and like-minded folk. You may have had your car keyed for no reason. That is wrong and something you don't deserve. The person who did it to you deserves great misfortune to happen to them. Great, bricky, misfortune.

People parking inconsiderately/dangerously in tanks veer a little further away from no reason... But I don't think this person should have had their car keyed if there were plenty of other spaces around... If, however, you urgently needed to park somewhere, everything was full and something like this was taking 2 or 3 spaces; There is a strong case for keying/otherwise inflicting a punishment on the random asshole (who is like whoever keyed your presumably innocent car).

25-02-2008 01:02AM

passive wrote: »

Living in France at the minute... Not so big on the phone calls or engaging strangers in conversation thing, due to language difficulties . But consider your sanity questioned in any case...

Passive aggressive tendencies and violent thoughts, perhaps you should be questioning your sanity...

muckwarrior · 25-02-2008 01:02AM

ronoc wrote: »

God you people really are something else. Go ahead keep trying to justify it to yourself. Wait until you get your car keyed for no reason some day. Enjoy the big bill:):):)

Is what you're saying not like comparing someone coming up and punching you in the face for no reason and someone coming up and punching you in the face after you told them their girlfriend was a filthy whore?

25-02-2008 01:03AM

muckwarrior wrote: »

Is what you're saying not like comparing someone coming up and punching you in the face for no reason and someone coming up and punching you in the face after you told them their girlfriend was a filthy whore?

Do you often try to make a coherent point by comparing two things that have nothing to do with what is being talked about?

passive · 25-02-2008 01:03AM

ronoc wrote: »

Passive aggressive tendencies and violent thoughts, perhaps you should be questioning your sanity...

I'm not the one with flash-rape in my sig

.
And, incidentally, I do... But that isn't the issue at hand!

edit...

ronoc wrote:

Do you often try to make a coherent point by comparing two things that have nothing to do with what is being talked about?

I think you need to reread my last post, then reread his, then think about it a bit. You may see the comparison only if you allow yourself to... Punched for no reason = Puncher is an asshole. Punched for "girlfriend whore" incident = You're an asshole and got punched. Keyed for no reason = "Keyer" is a ****. Keyed for parking humm-vee in middle of road/handicapped space/on a puppy = driver is an asshole, keyer's probably dodgy enough too, if we wanna be honest about it.

Following?

muckwarrior · 25-02-2008 01:14AM

ronoc wrote: »

Do you often try to make a coherent point by comparing two things that have nothing to do with what is being talked about?

Yes. It's called an analogy.

25-02-2008 01:15AM

passive wrote: »

I'm not the one with flash-rape in my sig .
And, incidentally, I do... But that isn't the issue at hand!

edit...

I think you need to reread my last post, then reread his, then think about it a bit. You may see the comparison only if you allow yourself to... Punch no reason = he's an asshole. Punch girlfriend whore = you're an asshole and got punched. Keyed no reason = keyer is a ****. Keyed parked middle of road/handicapped space/on a puppy = driver is an asshole, keyer's probably dodgy enough too, while we're at it.

Following?

That is an interesting way of putting it to say the least.. Discarding that whole punching argument and getting back to keying someones car.

You may think its an appropriate punishment but society as a whole does not. If you choose to key someone's car you are in my mind scum.

Petey2006 · 25-02-2008 01:19AM

ronoc wrote: »

Don't try justify what you said you passive aggressive tosser. Maybe you should get a job as a parking attendant seeing how you care about traffic laws.

My my, we are an angry little man, aren't we? Harboring some deep rooted resentment over someone keying your car in the past? Either way, the comment about keying the car was just that. A comment. Stop getting your knickers in such a twist.

And I'm perfectly happy in my job as it is, thanks.

rubadub · 25-02-2008 01:20AM

ronoc wrote: »

God you people really are something else. Go ahead keep trying to justify it to yourself. Wait until you get your car keyed for no reason some day. Enjoy the big bill:):):)

I already said I do not agree with it! I was simply explaining the mentality behind such an act, and questioning your declaration that it is a cowardly act. Would calling the gardai anonymously in this situation be brave or cowardly?

It is a convenient act to do, more convenient than calling the gardai, who might not turn up in time. Some people will become vigilantes for many reasons, not wanting to waste garai resources would be one. Doesn't mean it is right, or that I agree with it.

I am simply stating why people would do such a thing, in case anybody else couldn't understand why. You said "Wait until you get your car keyed for no reason", in which case it is just pure vanalism, not a form of vigilantism. I cannot understand the mentality of vandals.

passive · 25-02-2008 01:22AM

ronoc wrote: »

That is an interesting way of putting it to say the least.. Discarding that whole punching argument and getting back to keying someones car.

You may think its an appropriate punishment but society as a whole does not. If you choose to key someone's car you are in my mind scum.

Well... okay. The disapproval of other good people and the labelling of me as scum would be the reason I personally wouldn't key someone's car, moreso than the legal side of things. To me the "someone" in your sentence is the key issue and affects the judgement one should make about the act, with the above facetious examples being what I mean about the someone.

The most extreme act of passive agressive vigilantism I've ever performed in reality was to leave a note beside a guy sleeping on a bus telling him that his blaring heavy metal could be heard about 12 seats back, was pissing off everyone on the bus and that I couldn't possibly imagine how the **** he was sleeping through it. The advice of the note was that if he wasn't a complete dickhead then he should be aware of how inconsiderate that is, and if he was and did so knowingly, then I, and many other random people, wish harm upon him.

Clocked myself in the face with the metal bar as I escaped heroically down the stairs afterwards... That probably has significance.

25-02-2008 01:22AM

Petey2006 wrote: »

My my, we are an angry little man, aren't we? Harboring some deep rooted resentment over someone keying your car in the past? Either way, the comment about keying the car was just that. A comment. Stop getting your knickers in such a twist.

And I'm perfectly happy in my job as it is, thanks.

Yes I have had my car keyed in the past.

What do you do if they are parked on double yellows? Break their back windows? Rip their wing mirrors off perhaps?

Wise up.

Edit: All the would be vandals seem to be back peddling. Hopefully you have all seen the error of your ways

passive · 25-02-2008 01:26AM

ronoc wrote: »

Yes I have had my car keyed in the past.

What do you do if they are parked on double yellows? Break their back windows? Rip their wing mirrors off perhaps?

Wise up.

Depends on if they're doing no harm, and just happen to be upon some lines that're yellow, or if there's an ambulance trying to get around a corner that can't pass... An ambulance on its way to save a cute little orphan.

http://drx.typepad.com/psychotherapyblog/images/2007/03/13/orphan.jpg

In that case, I'd gladly use my indignant good citizen strength to toss their car into the sun... Wouldn't you?

Petey2006 · 25-02-2008 01:28AM

The most fun thing to do is find cars that have paid for parking and overstayed their alotted time. What I do then is kick off their wing mirrors and take a dump on their windscreens.

rubadub · 25-02-2008 01:30AM

ronoc wrote: »

Yes I have had my car keyed in the past.

Do you think it was an act of vandalism or vigilantism.

ronoc wrote: »

Edit: All the would be vandals seem to be back peddling. Hopefully you have all seen the error of your ways

I would describe them as would be vigilantes. A vandal perfoms wanton destruction, with no reasoning behind it. A vigilante is issuing their own justice, and hope it works as a deterrent to committing crimes, just like how the real law works.

ronoc wrote: »

What do you do if they are parked on double yellows? Break their back windows? Rip their wing mirrors off perhaps?

Legally they should contact gardai, they will be fined and give them a monetary punishment in that manner. Rather than monetary punishment in the form of repair. Some "victims" might be financially better off with the vigilante approach, and could be just as unlikely to commit the "crime" again.

I wouldn't like to see my car keyed for no reasons, nor would I like to receive a fine for no reason.

25-02-2008 01:30AM

Petey2006 wrote: »

The most fun thing to do is find cars that have paid for parking and overstayed their alotted time. What I do then is kick off their wing mirrors and take a dump on their windscreens.

But only the vehicles which are ostentatious shows of wealth. Because deep down that's what this SUV thing is really about right?
I doubt a battered volvo would have provoked the responses the BMW X5 did.

passive · 25-02-2008 01:32AM

ronoc wrote: »

Edit: All the would be vandals seem to be back peddling. Hopefully you have all seen the error of your ways

Well, no... Everyone's spent the last few minutes trying to explain to you the difference between "no reason" and "with reason." And a quick glance back over the thread finds me nobody who said "I would personally key cars that annoy me" who has now in any way backtracked. We've both explained our positions rationally, there are merits to both sides. Nobody back peddled and your personal problem over what happened to your car is the huge driving force behind your inability to see why some people, other people who do bad things might deserve misfortune inflicted by a random passer by, when they would go otherwise unpunished by inefficient legal processes.

Petey2006 · 25-02-2008 01:34AM

Wouldn't have mattered if it was an SUV, Skoda, tractor or motorbike. I'd have posted anyway. That it was an SUV just made it more nuts since they have such a bad reputation as it is.

25-02-2008 01:35AM

rubadub wrote: »

Do you think it was an act of vandalism or vigilantism.

It was vandalism regardless of the circumstances.

rubadub wrote: »

Legally they should contact gardai, they will be fined and give them a monetary punishment in that manner. Rather than monetary punishment in the form of repair. Some "victims" might be financially better off with the vigilante approach, and could be just as unlikely to commit the "crime" again.

You are arguing on one hand its a punishment then on the other it somehow benefits the driver. Which is it?
Some of these justifications really are stretching it a bit.

armada104 · 25-02-2008 01:37AM

May I interrupt this argument to point out part of ronoc's original statement...

ronoc wrote: »

Seeing as you thought seriously about doing it and didn't makes you a pretty worthless person.

Pretty worthless person? I don't think it's worth arguing with someone who can conclude something like this from a throwaway comment on an internet forum.

25-02-2008 01:41AM

passive wrote: »

Well, no... Everyone's spent the last few minutes trying to explain to you the difference between "no reason" and "with reason." And a quick glance back over the thread finds me nobody who said "I would personally key cars that annoy me" who has now in any way backtracked. We've both explained our positions rationally, there are merits to both sides. Nobody back peddled and your personal problem over what happened to your car is the huge driving force behind your inability to see why some people, other people who do bad things might deserve misfortune inflicted by a random passer by, when they would go otherwise unpunished by inefficient legal processes.

Lets face it, its more about revenge than punishment.

You are spitting hairs at this stage. I'll make it simple for all of you.

Do you think criminal damage is justified for minor traffic infractions?

Would you commit such an act to unilaterally punish the driver in question?

passive · 25-02-2008 01:42AM

ronoc wrote: »

It was vandalism regardless of the circumstances.

You are arguing on one hand its a punishment then on the other it somehow benefits the driver. Which is it?
Some of these justifications really are stretching it a bit.

No, he wasn't saying that he wants the driver to benefit. He was pointing out to you that when it's punishment rather than a random act of vandalism it is comparable to the fine imposed by the authorities. It was a punishment in both the cases he presented, and he has no wish to benefit the driver.

The legal route, however, is less immediate and guaranteed to have results. And you blatantly ignored his point about them not doing it again, which is the idea behind the act, rather than costing the person x amount of money.

Stop clouding the issue and cherry picking points to respond to sneeringly.

(Edit:

ronoc wrote: »

You are spitting hairs at this stage. I'll make it simple for all of you.

Do you think criminal damage is justified for minor traffic infractions?

Would you commit such an act to unilaterally punish the driver in question?

A) Yes, depending on the infraction in question and its effect on the people who share the world with the perpetrator

I've already answered this. No, I don't believe I would because it would leave people thinking I'm a scumbag and great as all this theory and explanation is, it would seem that simple to people like you (or, more importantly, people who are opposed to such behaviour without a traumatic back-story) and I'd look just as much of an asshole as the person I was trying to teach a lesson to.

I'd rather not have to talk my way out of that kind of thing, so I just do my best to be considerate of others and live as an antithesis to people who suck as much as the bus blocker or parking space hogger of our argument. I do however support others who could do such things where appropriate and not care so much what people think of them.

kona · 25-02-2008 01:43AM

meh, you may actually make the car look like its been used off road:D:D

2 flat tyres tbh. no damage, just inconvienience, that or double park and leave the aul park anywhere lights on(hazzards):D

rubadub · 25-02-2008 01:43AM

ronoc wrote: »

It was vandalism regardless of the circumstances.
You are arguing on one hand its a punishment then on the other it somehow benefits the driver. Which is it?

I am not saying it benefits the driver. It would be intended to benefit the general population, just like a fine would. i.e. it would act as a deterrent to it happening again.

I was asking if yours was vigilantism, i.e. did you illegally park somewhere and came back to a keyed car. If you had done, and there was a note saying "I just keyed your car because you were parked illegally, and I will do it again tomorrow if I see you". Then I think that would act as a deterrent to you doing it again. Just the same as if you received a fine from a warden or garda who said they would be back again tomorrow to check on you.

My point is that the driver might be deterred from doing the "crime" again to the same degree, but a fine could have cost more than the repair job. So it gets the same desired result but the driver is financially better off that the vigilante did not call the gardai

Do you really find it so hard to come with the concept of vigilantism?

Unprovoked vandalism is another story, I cannot grasp the ideology behind it.

Lawless_Samurai · 25-02-2008 01:45AM

eo980 wrote: »

Man that is bad, hope someone reported the c'nut.

Report... I hope someone Keyed the c'nut

25-02-2008 01:57AM

passive wrote: »

No, he wasn't saying that he wants the driver to benefit. He was pointing out to you that when it's punishment rather than a random act of vandalism it is comparable to the fine imposed by the authorities. It was a punishment in both the cases he presented, and he has no wish to benefit the driver.

The legal route, however, is less immediate and guaranteed to have results. And you blatantly ignored his point about them not doing it again, which is the idea behind the act, rather than costing the person x amount of money.

Stop clouding the issue and cherry picking points to respond to sneeringly.

(Edit:

A) Yes, depending on the infraction in question and its effect on the people who share the world with the perpetrator

I've already answered this. No, I don't believe I would because it would leave people thinking I'm a scumbag and great as all this theory and explanation is, it would seem that simple to people like you (or, more importantly, people who are opposed to such behaviour without a traumatic back-story) and I'd look just as much of an asshole as the person I was trying to teach a lesson to.

I'd rather not have to talk my way out of that kind of thing, so I just do my best to be considerate of others and live as an antithesis to people who suck as much as the bus blocker or parking space hogger of our argument. I do however support others who could do such things where appropriate and not care so much what people think of them.

SO what it boils down to is you don't care if people do it and in fact welcome it as a means of enforcing parking rules. As long as you don't have to do it yourself of course.

I relish the day you are in a rush and park slightly off and some one decides to smash a trolly into your car

The ironing will be delicious.

passive · 25-02-2008 02:06AM

ronoc wrote: »

SO what it boils down to is you don't care if people do it and in fact welcome it as a means of enforcing parking rules. As long as you don't have to do it yourself of course.

I relish the day you are in a rush and park slightly off and some one decides to smash a trolly into your car The ironing will be delicious.

I've highlighted the part where you blatantly ignore everything that's been discussed about justification, valid causes, effect on others etc, then I go sleep, refraining from cursing or mocking you in some way, and hope you come around and realise how much you're ignoring everything that doesn't suit you.

Yes. I think it's a good thing and should be done in certain situations (I'm not going to elaborate or stress this point further, 'cos you'll ignore it when you make your next two word put-down). No, I don't think I could do it myself. Well done taking those facts and pretending that means the thing I support must be completely invalid. May you never need a plumber.

rubadub · 25-02-2008 02:08AM

ronoc wrote: »

SO what it boils down to is you don't care if people do it and in fact welcome it as a means of enforcing parking rules. As long as you don't have to do it yourself of course

At last I think you are coming around. I prefer to see the gardai enforcing parking rules, and also would not like doing it myself. i.e. would not like being a garda nor a vigilante myself.

ronoc wrote: »

I relish the day you are in a rush and park slightly off and some one decides to smash a trolly into your car The ironing will be delicious.

He will understand the motive behind it, no real irony there, he broke the rules and took the risk and now lives with the consequences. I am sure he would be upset to comeback to a fine or damage, but will accept why it happened and move on, and think twice about doing it again.

25-02-2008 02:11AM

passive wrote: »

I've highlighted the part where you blatantly ignore everything that's been discussed about justification, valid causes, effect on others etc, then I go sleep, refraining from cursing or mocking you in some way, and hope you come around and realise how much you're ignoring everything that doesn't suit you.

Yes. I think it's a good thing and should be done. No, I don't think I could do it myself. Well done taking those facts and pretending that means the thing I support must be completely invalid. May you never need a plumber.

Of course you will never know. The chap that keyed your car is long gone and who knows if he keyed it for a reason or for the hell of it. There is my point. He might be keying your car for the very fact its a BMW. Even if your parking is crap that is no justification.

But any ways I'm done arguing with you. If you can condone this sort behaviour you are in my mind the problem.
I'm really surprised by the amount of people that support this behaviour.

passive · 25-02-2008 02:11AM

rubadub wrote: »

He will understand the motive behind it, no real irony there, he broke the rules and took the risk and now lives with the consequences. I am sure he would be upset to comeback to a fine or damage, but will accept why it happened and move on.

Hey hey hey now... Let's not get ahead of ourselves or let him away with the "slightly off" twist.. If I'm in a rush and park in a handicapped space, blocking a doorway or somesuch example of asshole parking then, yes, trolley me all you want. "slightly off" is BS though.. He's trying to pretend we're talking about being 6 degrees off perfect or touching the white line, maybe a little too far off the curb... To that I say; Trolley me not.

And goodnight -_-'

Ronoc, you don't deserve to be keyed for driving a BMW, that is not harmful to others or inconsiderate. That is a different thing than we are saying might be sometimes okay. So... yeah, we're both done. Bye.

25-02-2008 02:16AM

rubadub wrote: »

He will understand the motive behind it, no real irony there, he broke the rules and took the risk and now lives with the consequences. I am sure he would be upset to comeback to a fine or damage, but will accept why it happened and move on, and think twice about doing it again.

Yeah sure he will. I'm sure he will be trilled with summary justice that costs hundreds of euros to fix.:rolleyes: Enforced by some busy body who was having a bad day and decides to take it out on the next thing to annoy him.

Owning an SUV means you can do what you like

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