[Eve] my eve experience !!!

You didn't try the PVP side? Probably what your missing tbh

The Trinity expansion was really just an overhauled GFX engine with shiny ships, and a few new new classes.

Well I'd discourage joining a griefer corp since lets face it they're just jerks who's only pleasure in life is ruining other peoples' fun, rather a sad existance....
However there are many, many, PVP corps, who regularly wardec other corps and make fleet ops into red space (non-empire, PvP space) and loads of whom have permanent bases in red space that always need more defenders or players to raid neighbouring corporation's bases.

Also you were probably doing lv 1 missions for the trial, as you do higher level missions they get much harder. Different agent types give different mission types too, with some (e.g. manufacturing) giving mostly courier missions (take x to station y) and others (e.g. security) giving mostly PvE missions.

Zillah wrote: »

What exactly do you think the purpose of PVP is? To make the other guy sigh in satisfaction and wish you luck?

PvP and griefing are very different things, PvP is a skill and only happens if you agree to it, griefing is using the game mechanics to ruin other people's game experience.

http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_12.asp wrote:

A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.

This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.

Zillah wrote: »

We are totally griefing Bob to be honest.



If by "agree to it" you mean "ever undock from station"...

Tut, tut...


As to undocking from station being an agreement to partake in PvP, only really if your corp/alliance has been wardeced or you're in redspace, otherwise as long as you don't encounter any griefers who'll either use the suicide gank (why CCP haven't fixed this I don't know, there are enough forum posts complaining about it and all it'd need would be to have losing a ship to concorde invalidate the insurance policy, you'd still get the odd instance where the transport was carrying an obscene amount of wealth in items, but it'd be much, much rarer) to attack or tricking you into allowing them to legally attack you shouldn't have to give so much as a second thought to it. But yup, in theory undocking puts you at risk, I actually know one player who claims to have undocked for the first time in months the other night, he seems to make his isk playing the market.

Maddzy wrote: »

By "Grief" corp I meant a corp who war decs bigger alliances in Empire and fights them in fair pvp engagements. This is a good way for new players to train themselves in PVP. I did NOT mean some pussy pricks who can bait noobs or "trick" players into pvp.

Also I've never heard the term "redspace" before, do you mean low-sec or 0.0?

Ah, I'd simply consider those PvP corps, no problems with them, though I know some who do:rolleyes:, as lets face it you get 24hrs warning to refit your ships accordingly or to simply sit in station until it blows over. So while I can understand it might upset a player's schedule and does tend to put a halt to recruiting new members it's just a nuisance if you play sensibly, fun if you decide to use it for some PvP action yourself (in a jump clone though!).

Redspace = anything below 0.5, so low sec and 0.0, basically anywhere you're definitely fair game for shooting at without a wardec or an aggression timer.
0.5 = yellowspace
>0.5 = greenspace

Ry wrote: »

Are Pirates Griefers then in your opinion farohar?

Pirates as in rats (npc enemies) or as in players who hunt in redspace?
The rats have no sentient thought and do not use trickery to ruin gameplay, players who hunt in redspace do not usually use it either and since you've entered redspace you've effectively aggreed to the possible PvP combat that may result while in redspace.

Every time you enter your username and password and click connect you are agreeing to the possibility of you being shot or you shooting someone and one of you end up dying. This isn't Hello Kitty Online ya know

kyp_durron wrote: »

For all the above to work it requires your target to be a complete retard. If you have played the game long enough to lose something worth while to can baiting in a noob system then you must have ****ing brain damage or be inbred. If anything they get thought some important game mechanics (Should have joined Eve Uni anyway, then they would never have lost that Bantam).

New players will not be aware of Eve university and should not have to join any specific corp, or even join a corp for that matter, in order to be made aware of the pathetic playstyle of some others. For a new player every last isk is important and the loss of a ship that costs a few k can be a major set back, do you want a closed off game where no-one new joins in to play?
Then there's the issue as to if it's the loss is supposed to not be worth while to the new player who only just started then whatever salvage the griefer gets is definitely not worth while to them => clearly the only point to it is to put the new player off playing. If I went up to a 5 year old, lure them somewhere with a load of chocolate and beat the crap out of them to get their pocket money I could argue that they

must have ****ing brain damage or be inbred

for falling for it, still clearly a ****ty thing to do since the amount would be meaningless to me yet mean a lot to the kid and it's picking on someone who hasn't a hope of defending themselves against me since I'm bigger and stronger (better ship and more skils in the case of Eve).

kyp_durron wrote: »

There have been a million and one whine threads about Suicide ganking, mostly, if not all by people who like to think they can auto pilot their t1 frig with officer/faction mods in their cargo through the Jita/Amarr pipe. These are the people that consider it an exploit. **** those people is what I say and it seems CCP agree cause they haven't called it as a exploit after all these years.

Joining alliances simply to escape wardecs, and then quitting them has also been around for a VERY long time and yet was only recently declared an exploit so the fact that CCP haven't yet done so for suicide ganking doesn't mean a thing. Since this prevented PvP corps from being feasible in Empire space it's a good thing, and as I said you get 24hrs warning to find somewhere to sit low or refit your ship accordingly anyway so wardecs tend to just be a nuisance IMO.

If someone manages to bait me fair enough, I've been around long enough to know the story, but then lets face it the people who fall for it are usually new with only a minority of more experienced players letting themselves get duped so such griefplay is really targetting the newer players.

kyp_durron wrote: »

No, a ship that cost a few k can not be a 'major setback' for ****sake, thats just nonsense. I was about 2 days old when I learned that taking from other peoples cans flagged you, it's not ****ing rocket science. Also what's that **** about a closed off game, the amount of subs have risen exponentially the past year.

A ship that cost a few K CAN be a major setback for a new player since a few k is all you start with and due to what funds & the kind of skill selection you start with you are very much just trying to scrape together funds to get better stuff and skills. Just because a few K, perhaps even a few mil is no big thing for you don't go assuming that all players should also feel the same.
"closed off game", as all the new players have such bad experiences in the trial time that they couldn't be bothered to pay a subscription (have encountered quite a few of these).

kyp_durron wrote: »

That's a terrible analogy. This is not RL,

Which is the only reason why it's not a good analogy, people feel it's ok hide behind the anonymity of the internet so they can bully others as they are detached from the event as they don't witness how the other person reacts & feels about it.

kyp_durron wrote: »

and applying your RL morals and ethics to Eve is stupid. It's a sandpit, you can be what you want to be and do what you want to do. You don't own anything in Eve, it's the proptery of CCP and you have no god given right to expect to it be kept safe.

Just as you've no right to expect the service to continue if the flow of new players is stopped simply because some pathetic people need to pick on players who haven't a hope of defending themselves against them just to feel big. Heck for all you know the person piloting that little frigate may in fact be some 5 year old kid who's now wondering where his ship went and what he did wrong, highly unlikely but still possible.

kyp_durron wrote: »

I remember a dev saying that they don't plan to change it and saying they liked the idea that you could suicide gank, I will try and find a link later. New players don't get suicide ganked. They dont have the items expensive enough for it to be worth their while.

Part of Eves appeal to me is that it's a harsh universe, it's what set's it apart from other MMO's. If people like you got their way it seems like we would be playing WOW in space and that is not a good thing. I'm sure most Eve players would tend to agree.

Fixed that for you. Being in a corp that's mostly in empire space and recruiting from there, as well as having read many posts on forums for Eve and for the other games I've played I can tell you that the griefing does put many people off Eve. Perhaps that is a significant part of the reason why as MMOs go it has a very small number of subscribers.
As to if most Eve players would agree, if that were so why are there regular complaints about the game being top heavy, in that most players are sticking to empire space, where the universe is less "harsh"? Also why are there entire alliances who's uniting ethos is that they are anti-grief-play?
And WoW and Eve are VERY different games, even on the PvP WoW servers the games have little in common.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's a game. If the rules allow it then you do it if you feel like it. I would have thought it was quite simple really.....

Except that CCP have gone on the record as saying that can baiting in starter systems is not allowed and that excessive grief-play tactics will result in disciplinary actions, so clearly, while the game mechanics may allow it, the rules do not:

http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=336
Grief play
What is grief play?



A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.


An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.

Zillah wrote: »

If it happens them more than once then they're complete retards who deserve to die repeatedly.

Well other than the word "retards":p, I'd pretty much agree, if you can't learn from your mistakes then you're dead meat in Eve. So yeah, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" is pretty apt here.

Have a corp mate who even after all the enemies in a mission have closed to within ~40KM he still insists on warping to zero everytime and yet can't understand why this makes the mission much harder for him.:(

You know.. I've never once heard of CCP enforcing that rule.. I can understand the starter systems being offlimits .. at least in some ways.. But I've never once heard of anyone even being warned for griefing..

The problem being that there is no fair warning given as to the various methods of griefing. CCP claim that can-baiting in starter systems will result in a suspension yet there's regularly cans with stuff in them just sitting outside the station (it seems to be a permanent fixture in most systems), and I seriously doubt it's because there's some generous soul leaving stuff there to help out the newbies.

Meh, Im a strong believer that the splash screen on EVEs first loadup should be "Dont take from the ****ing can you tool!" Anyway, dont they get a criminal flag warning when they steal from the can? Its on by default.

Worst come to worst, they undock in their noob frigate, steal, get wasted and receive a valuable lesson. Would it be better to get their first introduction to can baiting when theyre in their first, hard earned BC? Thats when theyd quit if they were going to. If they quit on losing their noob frigate, well okay, close the door behind you.

Which is why any decent alliance requires all recent members to also be kicked until after the war.

Dont have to kick all of them, just kick the spy tbh. Theyre not hard to spot. Its just some gimp on the other side of a monitor, not the CIA.

New players will not be aware of Eve university

Which is a shame, be good for CCP to include a reference to the work they do so new players can get a good introduction to the game.

Being in a corp that's mostly in empire space and recruiting from there, as well as having read many posts on forums for Eve and for the other games I've played I can tell you that the griefing does put many people off Eve. Perhaps that is a significant part of the reason why as MMOs go it has a very small number of subscribers.

Id say the reason is that EVE isnt some tired derivative of UO - no furries, no dance moves, no "opt-out" from PvP, no level grinding etc etc. EVEs different from WOW and its clones, it doesnt appeal to a mass audience, thats not a bad thing.

If I went up to a 5 year old, lure them somewhere with a load of chocolate and beat the crap out of them to get their pocket money I could argue that they

How do you know it isnt a 5 year old can baiting noobs outside the starter station tbh?

As to if most Eve players would agree, if that were so why are there regular complaints about the game being top heavy, in that most players are sticking to empire space, where the universe is less "harsh"? Also why are there entire alliances who's uniting ethos is that they are anti-grief-play?

Probably because empire war dec corps need soft, lazy targets that dont take responsibility for their own security and assume Concord will protect them from their own failings? Empire is the safest space in the game, but its not safe. A player whose smart, plans ahead and doesnt take silly chances will need to be very unlucky to get suicide ganked in or near Jita. Some players refuse to take those steps and get put out when theyre punished. If you give someone the motive [ loot!] and opportunity [AFK autopilot in untanked ship] to gank you, then they will. Thats part of EVEs appeal.

farohar wrote: »

Except that CCP have gone on the record as saying that can baiting in starter systems is not allowed and that excessive grief-play tactics will result in disciplinary actions, so clearly, while the game mechanics may allow it, the rules do not:

Anyone here ever heard of a corp called 'The Really Awesome Players'? [TRAPS]. They're pretty much the kings of empire griefing in Eve. Their ceo has a website where he writes stories about his wars in Eve, often boasting when their targets leave the game permanently.