Body Fat Reduction - Diet/Routine not working

danindublin · 12-02-2008 12:37PM #1

Hey guys,

Just wondering if you could give me some pointers on this and where I might be going wrong. Been on the same diet since the 1st Jan but havent noticed any major loses over the past 5 weeks. I'm 5'9" and currently 11 stone 9. At the weekends it always goes to 11 stone 6 but by mid week its back up again (even though my diet doest change). Was sitting around the 12 stone mark after xmas.

Routine :

Breakfast (9am)

Wheetabix (2) with 150mls of Supermilk
Smoothie (little yougart mainly frozen berrys with apple/orange juice) 200mls

Snack (11am)

Banana - sometimes a coffee could be 1/2 hour before or after this

Lunch (1pm)

4 Slices of lean ham or 150g of chick, with salad
1 Probiotic yougart

Snack (3pm)

Apple or handful of cashew nuts

Dinner (6pm)

Grilled chicken breast, salmon or cold tuna
Salad (Lettuce, red onion, carrott with a little light italian dressing)
Boiled Carrotts and Green Beans - (Sometimes some onions and mushrooms steamed in their own juice)

Snack (9pm)

Post gym protien drink made with supermilk - 200mls

Have been going to the gym 5/6 times a week ususally divided up into:

3 Nights Cardio (25mins threadmill, 5 rowing, 10/15 x-trainer) with a cool down swim.

2/3 nights Pull downs, squats, brench press, shoulders.

Before I go down to the gym I usally do 10 mins on my abs. Problem is that even though I can feel them when I lie down, I cant really see much definition standing up. I'm doing 6 different exercises so I'm working at it from all angles. I do the abs exercises everyday regardless of whether I go to the gym or not.

My main thing for my now is to continue to loose or reduce more body fat but I'm not sure if this is the right diet or routine to be doing that. I'm not expecting miracles but have noticed very little change over the past 3 or so weeks. I have noticed a small change in my pecks which seem to be somewhat forming (or just that my man boobs are getting some shape :eek:)

Any advice much appreciated!

D

rubadub · 12-02-2008 12:41PM

Have you calculated your calorie in take properly? My mate had a "handful" of peanuts the other night when pissed, I reckon it was about 800-1000kcal!

g'em · 12-02-2008 12:47PM

Fewer carbs (e.g. eggs for breakfast), fewer yoghurts/ smoothies (lots of hidden sugars), more protein (e.g. chicken breast or 10-15 almonds) as snacks. Less fruit, more veg.

But more importantly - be patient. It can take weeks to see sizeable change if you lose fat slowly and steadily.

aye · 12-02-2008 12:54PM

danindublin wrote: »

I do the abs exercises everyday regardless of whether I go to the gym or not.

why do you them every day?
they are the same as any muscle in your body and need time to rebuild.
donig them everyday is overtraining.
also you wont see them until the body fat reduces from your stomach, so i wouldnt be too concerned with not seeing them.
i would advise doing a plank and more core ab movements than situps.
the plank will help tighten the inner abdominals, making your stomach look flatter.

what kind of rep/weight range are you doing in the gym?

danindublin wrote: »

2/3 nights Pull downs, squats, brench press, shoulders.

what do you do for your shoulders? what dont you work your back?
if you are going to work your chest, you must balance it out by working your middle back.

Colm_OReilly · 12-02-2008 01:11PM

Who designed your weights routine? Here's a much better one.

As for your cardio, I'd say it's well below optimal. Are you increasing the distance each week, or just doing the same? Maybe do some sprint intervals, or HIIT.

Overall the workout seems like you're going through the motions (no offence intended, most people are spending their gym time with inefficient routines. If you're dedicated enough to hit the gym 5/6x a week I think you should spend your time CrossFitting. Follow the workouts there, take the advice on the lecture/demo clips, browse the forums, and notice the difference. All the workouts are scalable to your ability level and would be much better than your current routine. Which, if you're not seeing results, you've nothing to lose from abandoning it for another one.

danindublin · 13-02-2008 10:49AM

aye wrote: »

what kind of rep/weight range are you doing in the gym?

what do you do for your shoulders? what dont you work your back?
if you are going to work your chest, you must balance it out by working your middle back.

Hey Guys,

Just a little update:

Heres my weight routine at present (its from years ago after I got a full assessment done), usually split into 2 on alternate nights:

Night #1

Leg Extension - 12*3 @ 50
Leg Curl - 12*3 @ 50
Leg Press - 12*3 @ 220
Hip Adductions - 12*3 @60

Night #2

Shoulder Press - 12 *3 @ 50
Chest Press - 12*3 @ 60
Lat Pull Down - 12*3 @ 35
Shrugs - 12*2 @ 7.5
Shoulder Abduction - 12*2 @ 5

Am I covering everything in that or am I waayyyy off the mark?

Was goin to change it to

Week #1
Monday - Night #1
Tuesday - Jog
Wedesday - Night #2
Thursday - Jog
Friday - Night #1
Saturday/Sunday - One day Jog & Night #2/ One day off

Week #2
Monday - Night #2
Tuesday - Jog
Wedesday - Night #1
Thursday - Jog
Friday - Night #2
Saturday/Sunday - One day Jog & Night #1/ One day off

Reduce the abs to the days when I'm doing the jogging as a pre-jog warming up?

Is this a little two much or am I way off the mark?

I've also cut the wheetabix and banana out of my morning food intake.

D

Racing Flat · 13-02-2008 10:01PM

Firstly - you HAVE lost weight - 12stone to 11stone6/9 is extremely significant.

And...
Can't see why you want to lose weight - 5foot9 and 11stone6/9 would be quite slight I imagine? I'm 5foot9/10 and 10stone10/12 and most people say I need to put on weight...

Diet - am I missing something, or am I the only person who thinks you are eating WAY TOO LITTLE. It seems to me like you're eating hardly anything - this is hardly sustainable? I think you need to eat more in general and I will probably be banned forever from this forum and maybe even banished to some remote island for saying this, but you need to get some carbs into you. Complex carbs preferably, brown rice, brown pasta, sweet potatoes.

My diet (and this would be restrictive/training pre-competition trying to keep the weight down time of year):

7.30 big bowl porridge made with water (taste reasons, not calories), with sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds and raisins

1.00 large bowl soup, 2 slices brown bread (if easy training day).....chile con carne with rice (hard training day), banana and apple

5.00 (hard training day only) bowl cereal (muesli/rice krispies) or fruit or energy drink, depending on hunger levels/time

8.00 500ml energy drink within 30mins post-training (powerbar or lucozade sport).
Dinner - complex carbs rice/pasta/potatoes with meat (rare fillet steak(large)) or fish (tuna steak/rainbow trout) and some vegetables.

The exercise is fine if it makes you breathless and you enjoy it.

Maybe you're not losing weight because
a) you've very little or none to lose
b) you are putting on muscle whilst losing fat (so maybe concentrate on how clothes fit etc rather than weight)
c) individual reasons? I find that in the weeks before a marathon when training is intense my weight can be very stable, then for a few weeks after the marathon when I am doing absolutely no exercise and eating whatever I want and lots and lots of bad food (my reward...) the weight falls off, I can lose up to half a stone. Weird.

PS I am absolutely astounded by some of the advice above in response to the OP. And now he/she has cut the weetabix out?!?! Or am I just on a different planet in thinking that OP needs to eat more?

celestial · 13-02-2008 10:30PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Firstly - you HAVE lost weight - 12stone to 11stone6/9 is extremely significant.

And...
Can't see why you want to lose weight - 5foot9 and 11stone6/9 would be quite slight I imagine? I'm 5foot9/10 and 10stone10/12 and most people say I need to put on weight...

Diet - am I missing something, or am I the only person who thinks you are eating WAY TOO LITTLE. It seems to me like you're eating hardly anything - this is hardly sustainable? I think you need to eat more in general and I will probably be banned forever from this forum and maybe even banished to some remote island for saying this, but you need to get some carbs into you. Complex carbs preferably, brown rice, brown pasta, sweet potatoes.

My diet (and this would be restrictive/training pre-competition trying to keep the weight down time of year):

7.30 big bowl porridge made with water (taste reasons, not calories), with sesame seeds, pumpkin seeds and raisins

1.00 large bowl soup, 2 slices brown bread (if easy training day).....chile con carne with rice (hard training day), banana and apple

5.00 (hard training day only) bowl cereal (muesli/rice krispies) or fruit or energy drink, depending on hunger levels/time

8.00 500ml energy drink within 30mins post-training (powerbar or lucozade sport).
Dinner - complex carbs rice/pasta/potatoes with meat (rare fillet steak(large)) or fish (tuna steak/rainbow trout) and some vegetables.

The exercise is fine if it makes you breathless and you enjoy it.

Maybe you're not losing weight because
a) you've very little or none to lose
b) you are putting on muscle whilst losing fat (so maybe concentrate on how clothes fit etc rather than weight)
c) individual reasons? I find that in the weeks before a marathon when training is intense my weight can be very stable, then for a few weeks after the marathon when I am doing absolutely no exercise and eating whatever I want and lots and lots of bad food (my reward...) the weight falls off, I can lose up to half a stone. Weird.

PS I am absolutely astounded by some of the advice above in response to the OP. And now he/she has cut the weetabix out?!?! Or am I just on a different planet in thinking that OP needs to eat more?

Hmmmm yeah that does seem to be a bit light...I am the same height and about 2 stone heavier, but then again have been doing weights for a while now. You're definitely right about the scales vs. how your clothes fit - as you do weights you can build up muscle and increase in weight while losing fat - bottom line is do not trust the scales!

Re the OP's food intake, I think it looks ok in terms of quantity - OP just make sure you're not going hungry - that's v important. except I'd switch the evening meal and the mid-day meal around perhaps.

Racing Flat I'd be more concerned about your restrictive diet where you go without food for 5 and a half hours between breakfast and lunch:)

Racing Flat · 14-02-2008 08:46AM

celestial wrote: »

Re the OP's food intake, I think it looks ok in terms of quantity - OP just make sure you're not going hungry - that's v important. except I'd switch the evening meal and the mid-day meal around perhaps.

Racing Flat I'd be more concerned about your restrictive diet where you go without food for 5 and a half hours between breakfast and lunch:)

But he's just having meat and salad or meat and salad and veg for lunch and dinner. Where are the complex carbs? Where is he gwtting his energy from? Not my field, but If I recall Inter Cert Science, there was an equation along the lines of:

Carbohydrate + Water + Oxygen = Energy + Carbondioxide

And I have been lead to believe that:

Complex carbs > simple carbs

And:
Complex carbs + protein > complex carbs.....as a source of energy and is more slow release, so you have sustained energy for longer.

so why do a lot of people give diet advice on this forum along the lines of cut out the carbs/replace the carbs with protein? Is my belief that carbs give you the energy you need for life outdated or incorrect? Or has Atkins just done such an incredibly convincing job in decrying the evils of carbs?

In relation to my own going 5.5hours without food, I may have some fruit at around 10.30 if I was hungry (just a snapshot of 1 day above) but as I eat a lot of complex carbs with protein for breakfast, I'm often still full even by lunchtime...

Scottty2Hottty · 14-02-2008 09:03AM

Racing Flat wrote: »

so why do a lot of people give diet advice on this forum along the lines of cut out the carbs/replace the carbs with protein? Is my belief that carbs give you the energy you need for life outdated or incorrect? Or has Atkins just done such an incredibly convincing job in decrying the evils of carbs?

In fairness I don't think you find to many people saying 'cut out carbs' or 'replace carbs with protein', what you might find is suggestions for people to 'reduce their simple carb intake' as they may be taking in excess carbohydrates for their specific energy requirements.. And given that most of the advice sought on this forum is either 'How to build muscle/reduce body fat?' surely an emphasis on proteins role in that process is understandable?

g'em · 14-02-2008 09:08AM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Carbohydrate + Water + Oxygen = Energy + Carbondioxide

It's glucose, not carbohydrate. And it's more than a teeny bit more complex than that

This is a misconception that people have about nutrition. Dietary carbs are NOT the only source of energy our bodies can use for metabolic process. Both proteins and fats can also be used albeit in a slightly different pathway. And volume for volume fats provide over twice the energy that carbs do, so just because a diet is low in carbs and seemingly small, it doesn't mean that you're starving your body of energy.

You come from a running background right? Well from other runners and athletes I've spoken to the singular advice for energy that thye're given is: eat more carbs. Grand, there's some reason to that, but the OP's goal isn't to run marathons or be an athlete, it's to lose fat. Different goals, different strategies.

Racing Flat wrote:

And I have been lead to believe that:

Complex carbs > simple carbs

That depends. Long-term energy release and slower digestion = complex carbs. Quick-release energy hit or intentional insulin boost (e.g. PWO) = simple carbs.

Racing wrote:

And:
Complex carbs + protein > complex carbs.....as a source of energy and is more slow release, so you have sustained energy for longer.

Yes. But does the OP have any need for sustained energy? He does two nights of weights and three nights of cardio - hardly endurance training?

Racing Flat wrote:

so why do a lot of people give diet advice on this forum along the lines of cut out the carbs/replace the carbs with protein?

If fat loss is the primary goal, it's most often the most effective dietary modification you can make. No-one (well, me anyway) is advocating complete loss of carbs - vegetables, fruit and oats provide plenty of carbs during the day. The majority of folk in ireland are over-dependent on carbs anyway.

Racing Flat wrote:

Is my belief that carbs give you the energy you need for life outdated or incorrect? Or has Atkins just done such an incredibly convincing job in decrying the evils of carbs?

Atkins went a long way towards demonising carbs, but I think people are begining to realise that all carbs are not created equal and are not all bad. You're aboslutely right that carbs provide energy... but so do protien and so do fats. And like I said before, keep the goal of the OP in context. Someone who needs energy for frequent long-distance runs or trains 4 or 5 times a week in a martial art or another cardio-heavy sport will have quite different dietary needs than someone who wants to look good nekkid.

I admit I make the silly mistake of assuming that people read the stickies about nutrition before launching into a "OMGZ here's what I do in the gyma nd the weight won't shift and I need helpz plz I just wanna look like Brad Pitt coz he's teh sexah" post, and in that assumption people have gone to the effort to figure out (at least roughly) what theyir daily calorie needs are. Case in point:

danindublin wrote:

I've also cut the wheetabix and banana out of my morning food intake.

Well what have you replaced it with? And what's your daily food intake like now?

accensi0n · 14-02-2008 09:38AM

And a certain weight at a certain height doesn't mean your skinner or fat, its not set in stone. People are differant.

I'm male, 5'9" and weigh 62KGs and I'm looking to lose fat.

Racing Flat · 14-02-2008 10:37AM

Thanks Gem, very informative answer, as I said not my field, but I do think people nowadays are more likely to advise people to have less carbs. I feel more appropriate advice may be to have less of everything, but have a balanced diet and not to pick on carbs!!!

Gem - do you really think the salad and meat for lunch, salad veg and meat for dinner is sufficiently healthy and balanced regardless of exercise levels or weight loss goals? Maybe I'm just stubborn but I fail to be convinced about this, unless he's having absolutely loads of salad.

Dead right accesion, I agree height should not be the sole determinant of weight, but generally speaking it's a bit of a guide. As I said I'm 5'9 or so, 10'10 and people worry that I'm underweight/sick etc., but I've massive legs that they don't see....
Steve Cram was 6'3 and 10.5stone and looked quite healthy/athletic if you ask me...

g'em · 14-02-2008 10:49AM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Thanks Gem, very informative answer, as I said not my field, but I do think people nowadays are more likely to advise people to have less carbs. I feel more appropriate advice may be to have less of everything, but have a balanced diet and not to pick on carbs!!!

Hehe, I can see where you're coming from, but both you and I (and regular readers of the forum

) will automatically equat 'carbs' to wholegrains, fibre-rich veg, brown rice and fresh pasta. But for your average punter, dietary carbs conists of pizzas, burger buns, white toast with jam, chocolate bars and Haribo mixes. So yes, while I completely agree that the "less of everything" approach is a great one, by and large the "less carbs in particular" mantra also applies simply becuase most junk food is carb-based and most forum-newcomers need to reduce junk in their diet.

Racing Flat wrote:

Gem - do you really think the salad and meat for lunch, salad veg and meat for dinner is sufficiently healthy and balanced regardless of exercise levels or weight loss goals? Maybe I'm just stubborn but I fail to be convinced about this, unless he's having absolutely loads of salad.

In the context of fat-loss, yes. In the context of someone who trains hard and needs more energy than average, possibly not. But a "salad" to me means green leaves, avocadoes, ripe, juicy cherry tomatoes, onions, seeds, nuts, beans and a whole host of other nutrition-rich ingredients, not a few limp iceberg leaves! And my meat or fish portions with those salads are fairly substantial too one whole (if not one and a half) large chicken breast or big slab of fish fillet.

People have this idea that salad + meat = boring, but if I were to indulge in my favourite salad ingredients I'd spend 75% of my wages on food. Similalry with veg; a roasted veg dish can have carrots, aubergine, turnips, onion, bell pepper, garlic and courgette in it along with a healthy dousing of olive oil. There's nothing calorie-sparse about that at all!

davyjose · 14-02-2008 09:35PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Thanks Gem, very informative answer, as I said not my field, but I do think people nowadays are more likely to advise people to have less carbs. I feel more appropriate advice may be to have less of everything, but have a balanced diet and not to pick on carbs!!!

Generally the ratio of Carbs Vs Protein and Fat in most peoples diets is too high for their daily needs. I think that's why it's often recommended to cut down on Carbs - not because they're evil but because the balance isn't right. People don't need 1000kCals of Carbs a day to sit at a desk and do half an hour on the cross trainer in the evening.

Colm_OReilly · 15-02-2008 09:13AM

davyjose wrote: »

Generally the ratio of Carbs Vs Protein and Fat in most peoples diets is too high for their daily needs. I think that's why it's often recommended to cut down on Carbs - not because they're evil but because the balance isn't right. People don't need 1000kCals of Carbs a day to sit at a desk and do half an hour on the cross trainer in the evening.

QFT

Racing Flat · 15-02-2008 11:46AM

davyjose wrote: »

People don't need 1000kCals of Carbs a day to sit at a desk and do half an hour on the cross trainer in the evening.

Don't they? Don't you need 2,500 calories or so a day just to live? And so 1000kcals of carbs is just 40%...seems like a reasonable amount to me.

celestial · 15-02-2008 07:57PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Don't they? Don't you need 2,500 calories or so a day just to live? And so 1000kcals of carbs is just 40%...seems like a reasonable amount to me.

It is a reasonable amount - generally speaking. But for someone trying to lose fat it may be too much for their goals. Everyone is different - some can get by with moderate carbs, low fat, low-moderate protein, others, mainly those who put on fat easily, usually do better with higher protein (maybe 60%+) and lower carbs.

Don't forget too that there are different kinds of carbs. What I would advocate for fat loss is a high-protein, low-moderate fibrous carb intake, with starchy carbs limited as much as possible. Plus a portion of veg could have maybe 200 kcals, the exact same portion (in say grammes) of bread or potatoes will have many times more the volume of calories.

And there is no doubt that Ireland, and Western society in general, is far too dependent on starchy carbs - toast for breakfast, rolls and sandwiches for lunch, spuds for dinner, cakes and biscuits for evening snacks! It's not so much overeating that is driving the obesity epidemic and why most people are overweight - as it is the kind of food we're eating...

davyjose · 15-02-2008 09:34PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Don't you need 2,500 calories or so a day just to live?

This is simply not true - even I don't need 2,500 kcals a day, and I'm not a little fella.
Anyway if you take a lot of people (irrelevant of their calorific needs), maybe some of those ethat wonder why they can't shift the love handles, for instance, and you take a look at their diet I would say that they take a lot more than 40% Carbs - the cereal for breakfast, the lattè and bagel at lunch etc.

Racing Flat · 16-02-2008 12:04AM

davyjose wrote: »

This is simply not true - even I don't need 2,500 kcals a day, and I'm not a little fella.
Anyway if you take a lot of people (irrelevant of their calorific needs), maybe some of those ethat wonder why they can't shift the love handles, for instance, and you take a look at their diet I would say that they take a lot more than 40% Carbs - the cereal for breakfast, the lattè and bagel at lunch etc.

But is 2,500 not the recommended daily intake for a man?
And if those who have a lot more than 40% carbs can't shift the love handles, are you saying 40% is okay? ie 1000 out of 2500?;)

Racing Flat · 16-02-2008 12:07AM

celestial wrote: »

It's not so much overeating that is driving the obesity epidemic and why most people are overweight - as it is the kind of food we're eating...

Nah, it's the over-eating. If you just ate 1000kcals a day it would not matter whether it was carbs, fat, protein or any mixture of these, you won't put on weight. If you ate 5000 a day, regardless of the kind of food, you'll put on weight.

Portions are too big, and we eat for enjoyment, so we overeat, so we've an obesity epidemic.

davyjose · 16-02-2008 01:15AM

Racing Flat wrote: »

But is 2,500 not the recommended daily intake for a man?
And if those who have a lot more than 40% carbs can't shift the love handles, are you saying 40% is okay? ie 1000 out of 2500?;)

I know what you are saying, but the essence of my point remains the same. Carbs serve a purpose for our bodies, but people take more than their body requires and then wonder why they're holding onto fat.
The 2,500kcal thing is a very general guideline too.

Racing Flat · 16-02-2008 02:23AM

davyjose wrote: »

I know what you are saying, but the essence of my point remains the same. Carbs serve a purpose for our bodies, but people take more than their body requires and then wonder why they're holding onto fat.
The 2,500kcal thing is a very general guideline too.

Ya, I get ya

Sangre · 16-02-2008 04:55PM

By the way, before we lose track, your weights routine is pretty useless. As in for the times you're spending there are a lot better ways to gain muscles and drop body fat. Do a search in these forums and you'll pick up some great routines.

Also try and avoid the machines and use free weights. try and incorporate deadlifts, squats, rows and military presses etc., into your routine.

Body Fat Reduction - Diet/Routine not working

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