Aussies say Sorry

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 10:46AM

Terry wrote: »

So you haven't had much contact with the Aboriginies, but you feel qualified to say that all they want is handouts from the government and that pretty much all they do is sniff petrol and drink mouthwash?
I don't care for the term "Abo" either. Don't use it again and cut down on the racist comments.
If you can't discuss this without using racist comments, then don't post in this thread again.

Eh sorry I didn't use any racist comment, I used the word 'Abo' as an abbreviation.

Just because I haven't hung out with them doesn't mean my eyes and ears are closed. I work as a journalist so get a lot of exposure to all forms of media stories. Why do you think mouth wash was taken off the market in Alice Springs last year? It wasn't because people's breath was too nice.

Terry · 13-02-2008 10:51AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Eh sorry I didn't use any racist comment, I used the word 'Abo' as an abbreviation.

Just because I haven't hung out with them doesn't mean my eyes and ears are closed. I work as a journalist so get a lot of exposure to all forms of media stories. Why do you think mouth wash was taken off the market in Alice Springs last year? It wasn't because people's breath was too nice.

Would you use the term "Abo" in one of your articles?

I've no idea why mouthwash was taken off the market in Alice Springs.
Can you show me a story explaining why it was taken off the market?

Again, being a journalist doesn't give you leeway to make derogatory comments about a race of people who you have had very little personal contact with.

MrJoeSoap · 13-02-2008 10:53AM

Terry wrote: »

Just because some people use the term "pikey", doesn't mean it's the right thing to do and doesn't excuse derogatory comments.

That wasn't the argument at all, he wasn't "using" the term pikey, he was pointing out its use. Huge difference. You could cover your ears and ignore the fact it exists or wake up and realise its presence.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 10:59AM

Terry wrote: »

Would you use the term "Abo" in one of your articles?

I've no idea why mouthwash was taken off the market in Alice Springs.
Can you show me a story explaining why it was taken off the market?

Again, being a journalist doesn't give you leeway to make derogatory comments about a race of people who you have had very little personal contact with.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Abbott-probes-mouthwash-abuse-claims/2007/05/02/1177788193050.html

Health Minister Tony Abbott is seeking further evidence that some indigenous people in Alice Springs are now abusing mouthwash because of its alcoholic content.

Alice Springs Council mayor Fran Kilgariff said on Tuesday there was anecdotal evidence of the new form of substance abuse.

There's plenty more too.

And no I wouldn't use the term 'Abo', no more than I would use text speak.

Terry · 13-02-2008 11:03AM

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

That wasn't the argument at all, he wasn't "using" the term pikey, he was pointing out its use. Huge difference. You could cover your ears and ignore the fact it exists or wake up and realise its presence.

He was equating a clearly racist term with the word "Pikey".
He was trying to defend the usage of that word by saying that similar words are used everywhere.

I'm not denying the usage or existence of these words. I'm merely pointing out that they are quite clearly derogatory terms. They only exist to make small minded people feel better abut themselves by slamming another group of people.

Terry · 13-02-2008 11:08AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Abbott-probes-mouthwash-abuse-claims/2007/05/02/1177788193050.html

There's plenty more too.

And no I wouldn't use the term 'Abo', no more than I would use text speak.

Health Minister Tony Abbott is seeking further evidence that some indigenous people in Alice Springs are now abusing mouthwash because of its alcoholic content.

Alice Springs Council mayor Fran Kilgariff said on Tuesday there was anecdotal evidence of the new form of substance abuse.

So there is some anecdotal evidence of some aboriginies abusing mouthwash.
Well that clinches it then. They're all at it.
In Leixlip in the late 80's/ early 90's there was a problem with teenages drinking on the streets.
The local rag at the time ran an article titled "Confey cider mob terror".
I remember that article well because I used to sell the paper door to door and I was one of the cider mob terrorists.
Pretty much all we did was get drunk, sing a few songs and go home.
However, the son of the paper's owner got a kicking from some of the older guys and that is what brought about the article.
A couple of other things happened after that. Long story short, 2 litre bottles of cider were banned from sale in Leixlip until the late 90's.
All because of a bit of anecdotal evidence and hysteria.

Now you're equating the term "Abo" with text speak?
Trying to justify its usage in that way doesn't wash with me.
You know damn well that it's a derogatory term and now you're just trying desperately to justify it.
You know damn well that if you used it in an article that it would be the last article you would ever have published, and not because you used an abbreviation.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 11:16AM

Terry wrote: »

So there is some anecdotal evidence of some aboriginies abusing mouthwash.
Well that clinches it then. They're all at it.

Now you're equating the term "Abo" with text speak?
Trying to justify its usage in that way doesn't wash with me.
You know damn well that it's a derogatory term and now you're just trying desperately to justify it.
You know damn well that if you used it in an article that it would be the last article you would ever have published, and not because you used an abbreviation.

Ah here how many times are words like 'knacker' and 'scumbag' all used to generalise in AH? For good sake it was a tongue in cheek remark and you're taking the high moral ground over it as if I said it about you.

Dennis the Stone · 13-02-2008 11:20AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah here how many times are words like 'knacker' and 'scumbag' all used to generalise in AH? For good sake it was a tongue in cheek remark and you're taking the high moral ground over it as if I said it about you.

If it was a tongue in cheek remark, could you not just move on and make sure you don't say it again? Why do you have to drag it on, defending yourself, trying to show that it wasn't meant to be racist? It's a racist term. You used it, enough said.

Terry · 13-02-2008 11:22AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah here how many times are words like 'knacker' and 'scumbag' all used to generalise in AH? For good sake it was a tongue in cheek remark and you're taking the high moral ground over it as if I said it about you.

Knacker and scumbag are generally used to describe people who regularly break the law and are general nuisances.
I really don't believe it was tongue in cheek due to your other comments.

MrJoeSoap · 13-02-2008 11:23AM

Terry wrote: »

Knacker and scumbag are generally used to describe people who regularly break the law and are general nuisances.

Can we call aborigines knackers and scumbags so?

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 11:23AM

Kemos wrote: »

If it was a tongue in cheek remark, could you not just move on and make sure you don't say it again? Why do you have to drag it on, defending yourself, trying to show that it wasn't meant to be racist? It's a racist term. You used it, enough said.

If I had been politely asked not to use it again I wouldn't have but instead I was attacked and called a racist so yeah I'm gonna defend myself to the PC crowd.

Fine, I'll say no more about them

Dennis the Stone · 13-02-2008 11:28AM

I don't think anyone thinks you are a racist. This whole 'PC gone mad' argument doesn't wash. Ninety percent of the time it is just an argument wheeled out by people who use terms that shouldn't be used and when they know they shouldn't be used.

tallus · 13-02-2008 11:47AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I never said it was alright. You say it as if it's some shocking thing for people to have a term for a minority group. You called it "institutionalised racism in Australia" but neglected to mention that it happens everywhere else too.

Well the thread is about Australia, and the dogs on the street know that racism is not just confined to Australia, but your comment suggested that you found it ok to be racist in Australia just because it happens in other countries too.
I find that kind of thinking a bit weird tbh.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 11:57AM

tallus wrote: »

Well the thread is about Australia, and the dogs on the street know that racism is not just confined to Australia, but your comment suggested that you found it ok to be racist in Australia just because it happens in other countries too.
I find that kind of thinking a bit weird tbh.

Ah so you know what I'm thinking now as well?

Look, that term is used in general conversation here, whether right or wrong. No more or less than knacker is used at home. I apologise if it offended some people, that wasn't it's intention. I don't appreciate being labelled a racist though.

Terry · 13-02-2008 12:09PM

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Can we call aborigines knackers and scumbags so?

Just the ones who regularly break the law.

Xavi6 wrote: »

If I had been politely asked not to use it again I wouldn't have but instead I was attacked and called a racist so yeah I'm gonna defend myself to the PC crowd.

Fine, I'll say no more about them

Who called you a racist?
Point them out to me and I'll ban them, just like I'll ban anyone else who calls someone here a racist.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah so you know what I'm thinking now as well?

Look, that term is used in general conversation here, whether right or wrong. No more or less than knacker is used at home. I apologise if it offended some people, that wasn't it's intention. I don't appreciate being labelled a racist though.

Have you asked an Aboriginie if they find the term offensive?
Would you use that term in front of them?

super_furry · 13-02-2008 01:22PM

Abo is as racist as Paki is. Both abbreviations, but both racist slurs.

Fratton Fred · 13-02-2008 01:26PM

super_furry wrote: »

Abo is as racist as Paki is. Both abbreviations, but both racist slurs.

Is the word Brit racist because it is an abbreviation?

it is usually not the words that are racist, but the way they are said.

Dennis the Stone · 13-02-2008 01:30PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is the word Brit racist because it is an abbreviation?

it is usually not the words that are racist, but the way they are said.

Brit is not a derogatory term. Many British people call themselves Brits. Abo is.

MrJoeSoap · 13-02-2008 01:32PM

Kemos wrote: »

Brit is not a derogatory term. Many British people call themselves Brits. Abo is.

Many black people call themselves the N word, that doesn't mean it isn't derogatory.

williambonney · 13-02-2008 01:34PM

super_furry wrote: »

Abo is as racist as Paki is. Both abbreviations, but both racist slurs.

What on earth is all the fuss about? The term abo , which everyone knows is short for aboriginal has been used in Australia for donkeys years. It’s neither a put down or a term of endearment; it’s just what the Australians call them (the indigenous people). So why are people here in Ireland getting hot under the collar about it?

Fratton Fred · 13-02-2008 01:41PM

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Many black people call themselves the N word, that doesn't mean it isn't derogatory.

And I know a lot of Pakistanis who call themselves Pakis.

I also know quite a few Irish people who call themselves paddies, but it is not a term I would use as I feel uncomfortable using it. Same with the term Fenian, I only ever heard that as a slur so I don't feel comfortable using it.

At the end of the day, anything that offends someone is an insult, people just need to be aware of that and use terms accordingly.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 02:03PM

williambonney wrote: »

What on earth is all the fuss about? The term abo , which everyone knows is short for aboriginal has been used in Australia for donkeys years. It’s neither a put down or a term of endearment; it’s just what the Australians call them (the indigenous people). So why are people here in Ireland getting hot under the collar about it?

Exactly. It's a day to day term over here.

jdivision · 13-02-2008 02:14PM

Funny how my Aussie mates never use it and say you can't use it.

Dennis the Stone · 13-02-2008 03:06PM

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Many black people call themselves the N word, that doesn't mean it isn't derogatory.

Brit has been used as an abbreviation for years. It was never used as a derogatory term. Nothing whatsoever like the N Word

Creature · 13-02-2008 04:38PM

We need an ambiguously racist abbreviation for Irish. I propose Ir.

God damn Irs.

landcruiserfj62 · 14-02-2008 12:15AM

Hey Xavi, I spent 2 months up in the Kimberleys. Some of the apprentices I worked with were Aboriginal. They were the exact same as the kids that wroked with us in Perth. When I was in Perth EVVVERYONE kept going on about how the "Abos" do this that and the other. They couldnt have been more wrong. They were lovely people.

I guarentee you would prolly get a left hook if they heard you call them "Abos"!
Also, would you walk around Sydney calling kids of Lebeneese extraction "Lebos"?? Matter of fact, funny thing with oz is, even the white people from "european stock" arnt white enuff for the rest off the aussies! They have soo many derogitory names for every nationality.

When I worked in Brisbane, the older guys at work thought my partner was jewish. Her name is Siobhan. To someone not familiar with irish names, it could be hebrew. They made no effort to pronounce her name properly untill they found out it wasnt a jewish name. They actually TOLD me this! (she also worked at the same company) They also HATED the asian people working there.

Terry · 14-02-2008 12:29AM

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

Hey Xavi, I spent 2 months up in the Kimberleys. Some of the apprentices I worked with were Aboriginal. They were the exact same as the kids that wroked with us in Perth. When I was in Perth EVVVERYONE kept going on about how the "Abos" do this that and the other. They couldnt have been more wrong. They were lovely people.

I guarentee you would prolly get a left hook if they heard you call them "Abos"!
Also, would you walk around Sydney calling kids of Lebeneese extraction "Lebos"?? Matter of fact, funny thing with oz is, even the white people from "european stock" arnt white enuff for the rest off the aussies! They have soo many derogitory names for every nationality.

When I worked in Brisbane, the older guys at work thought my partner was jewish. Her name is Siobhan. To someone not familiar with irish names, it could be hebrew. They made no effort to pronounce her name properly untill they found out it wasnt a jewish name. They actually TOLD me this! (she also worked at the same company) They also HATED the asian people working there.

Yeah, that's grwat.
The thing is, I'm sure your girlfriend was alright with it because racism happens everywhere else. That makes it ok.

landcruiserfj62 · 14-02-2008 12:40AM

We just thought there was somting funny going on lol. Like, did someone pin a note on our backs or somthing!

ajbrowne · 14-02-2008 05:42PM

The amount of times i've heard Irish people talk about Polish this and Polish that. It's not just Australia with some racist people.

They took our jobs!

Xavi6 · 15-02-2008 01:22AM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/up-to-40-stolen-claims-in-pipeline/2008/02/15/1202760542956.html

Up to 40 'stolen' claims in pipeline

The first compensation claim from a member of the stolen generations has been launched in Victoria, a leading barrister has confirmed.

Neville Austin, 44, from the northern Melbourne suburb of Reservoir, has begun proceedings for the first stolen generation claim against the State of Victoria.

Lyn Austin, the head of Stolen Generations Victoria and Mr Austin's cousin, said dozens more were preparing similar claims.

"I cannot make comment on that case at all, but ... I do know that there are another 30 or 40 that are going to be doing a civil action claim," she told ABC Radio in Melbourne.

"They have a right to pursue a claim if they wish, they were removed through the policies that were upon them."

Barrister Jack Rush, QC, who helped asbestos victims extract a $4 billion payout from James Hardie Industries, said that he had been working on Mr Austin's case for quite a while.

"All I can say is yes I'm acting for him and yes there is going to be a claim," he said.

"There could be other cases but I'm not aware of them."

Mr Austin was reportedly removed from his parents in 1964 to spend the next 18 years in foster homes and orphanages.

Mr Les Jenkins, Chair, Western Sydney Stolen Generations Support Group, said he was not aware of any similar cases in NSW.

"That's not to say that there isn't anyone in NSW," he said.

Mr Jenkins said most of his group just wanted to hear yesterday's apology by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.

"The comment that stuck out most to me was...'I feel better today than I have in years."'

Mr Austin's writ is yet to be filed with the court and does not nominate a payout figure, but claimants in other states have won between $350,000 and $500,000.

Fellow Victorian Bruce Trevorrow won $775,000 when a South Australian court ruled his removal from his family caused long-term depression.

So it looks like they do want some money after all. It was always going to happen once Rudd made the apology.

Aussies say Sorry

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