Aussies say Sorry

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 12:18AM

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

to be fair, there are some people that still feel strongly about it.

while it means nothing to you or i, or most of the world in general, do you not think that if it makes even a single person feel better, then its worth it?

i mean, there are jews in america who are still looking for apologies over the nazi concentration camps. is it a crock of siht for them as well? are you or i qualified enough to belittle something that means so much for those people?

I understand apologies in the immediate aftermath of an incident but decades down the line is a bit much for me. Yes the Nazi concentration camps etc were horrible but it's not the fault of the current government so why should they be apologising for something a completely off the wall regime did 60 years ago? Does Ireland look for apologies for the years of oppression suffered at the hands of the British?

To be blunt, does there not come a time when you need to be over it?

OPENROAD · 13-02-2008 12:22AM

Rob_l wrote: »

Didn't blair already apologise for english involvement in the slave trade

He did, but it was full Britain's involvement, not just England

WhiteWashMan · 13-02-2008 12:34AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yes the Nazi concentration camps etc were horrible but it's not the fault of the current government so why should they be apologising for something a completely off the wall regime did 60 years ago?

as i said, if it makes people feel better, is that a problem?

Xavi6 wrote: »

Does Ireland look for apologies for the years of oppression suffered at the hands of the British?

i dont know, does it? do you think there are people in ireland that would get emotional satisfaction from an apology? do you think it would put some demons to rest?

Xavi6 wrote: »

To be blunt, does there not come a time when you need to be over it?

do you think its up to you to put a time limit on something like that, or is it each individuals right as to whether or not the feel an apology would be the 'right thing to do', even if it is decades, or centuries later?

dr.bollocko · 13-02-2008 12:37AM

As Rudd himself pointed out, the stolen generations were taken, in numbers of up to 50,000 up until the early seventies. That's 50 years of families being separated for Naziesque reasons.
The aim, to breed out the aboriginal population. That's a pretty sick policy. It isnt the first time Australia has attempted an apology with marches etc. but it is the first time it came from the houses of parliament. and the indiginous population here DO in fact care.
There were thousands of them who pilgrimaged to Canberra to hear the apology. They played it on big screens in Melbourne and Sydney. Work stopped for the half hour speech and people were interested. I still dont know how it has gone down, waiting for the press response. it seemed to try to link the apology to what australia can do, going forward, to aid the aboriginal population to acheiving a place in society above where they are now.

You Suck! · 13-02-2008 12:37AM

To be blunt, does there not come a time when you need to be over it?

30 years seem a bit short?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generation

What are ya complaining about, it's a nice bit of pr and benefits are a small price to pay for a continent, well done Austrailia!

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 12:45AM

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

as i said, if it makes people feel better, is that a problem?

I never said it was a problem. It's just not something I believe in.

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

i dont know, does it? do you think there are people in ireland that would get emotional satisfaction from an apology? do you think it would put some demons to rest?

No I don't think so because an apology is just words. It can't undo the wrongs from the past.

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

do you think its up to you to put a time limit on something like that, or is it each individuals right as to whether or not the feel an apology would be the 'right thing to do', even if it is decades, or centuries later?

Nope of course it's not up to me. When did I say it was? I'm entitled to my opinion.

WhiteWashMan · 13-02-2008 01:57AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

No I don't think so because an apology is just words. It can't undo the wrongs from the past.

Then you are different to a lot of people.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Nope of course it's not up to me. When did I say it was? I'm entitled to my opinion.

I didnt say you said that. I asked you a question about it. no one is censoring your opinions.

Xavi6 wrote: »

. It can't undo the wrongs from the past.

WRT this one, I dont think anyone is trying to unright any wrongs, or sweep anything under the carpet so to speak.
Its more about acknowledging that this has happened, and accepting the part part played by the Australian government during those times.

dunno, I dont think an apology means that all is well and all shall be forgotten. seems that some people do. *shrug*

nialinho · 13-02-2008 03:34AM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

As Rudd himself pointed out, the stolen generations were taken, in numbers of up to 50,000 up until the early seventies. That's 50 years of families being separated for Naziesque reasons.
The aim, to breed out the aboriginal population. That's a pretty sick policy. It isnt the first time Australia has attempted an apology with marches etc. but it is the first time it came from the houses of parliament. and the indiginous population here DO in fact care.
There were thousands of them who pilgrimaged to Canberra to hear the apology. They played it on big screens in Melbourne and Sydney. Work stopped for the half hour speech and people were interested. I still dont know how it has gone down, waiting for the press response. it seemed to try to link the apology to what australia can do, going forward, to aid the aboriginal population to acheiving a place in society above where they are now.

I work here in oz and the feeling of some of the aussies here in the office is that its that the apology shouldnt be coming from this generation

dr.bollocko · 13-02-2008 03:40AM

I think that perception is true. But its not like we are talking about a different age. This was the 70's, as you can imagine, most of Australian current policies would have been well implemented by then. Its the same government structure, You know?
THe most important thing to note is that whatever we think about it, the aboriginal people get screwed and got screwed and they are owed an apology by someone, andsomething back to try and resolve the problems they have here.

But yes. Generationally speaking, words mean nothing, not to the white joe on the street. But historically, it is at least a chance to let the water go under the bridge and go towards building something solid for htem.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 04:41AM

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=379155

Crowds around Australia boo Nelson's speech

Opposition leader Brendan Nelson's reply to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's Stolen Generation apology has prompted a furious response around the country.

Dr Nelson's speech, which touched on the achievements of white Australians and the need for practical solutions to Aboriginal problems, hit a discordant note for many.

In stark contrast to the thunderous applause that greeted Mr Rudd's speech, Dr Nelson prompted booing, walk-outs and other shows of dissatisfaction at gatherings in Australia's major cities.

In Perth, the broadcast of the Opposition leader's speech was cut as Aboriginal people clapped to drown him out.

Midway through Dr Nelson's speech an Aboriginal woman, Catherine Coomer, started yelling out that the Opposition leader was degrading Aboriginal people.

Ms Coomer stood up and turned her back to the screen, and the crowd then began clapping loudly, before the broadcast was unplugged.

Premier Alan Carpenter said afterwards it was unfortunate Dr Nelson missed the mark.

In the grounds of Parliament House in Canberra, Aboriginal people expressed deep dissatisfaction with the Opposition leader's speech.

Many in the crowd turned their backs as Dr Nelson spoke, with some clapping and others shouting "shame".

At Sydney's Martin Place, a crowd of around 5000 people booed, clapped and chanted as the Opposition leader spoke.

Crowds in Melbourne's Federation Square gave Kevin Rudd a standing ovation, but several booed as Dr Nelson gave his response.

Halfway through, the entire crowd stood and turned their backs on Dr Nelson and people began chanting "Get him off".

Dr Nelson's speech called on Australians to focus on the need for contemporary reconciliation.

"Spare a thought for the real, immediate, seemingly intractable and disgraceful circumstances in which many indigenous Australians find themselves today," he said.

"Whether Australian by birth or immigration, each one of us has a duty to understand and respect what has been done in our name.

"In most cases, we do with great pride, but in others it is with shame."

dr.bollocko · 13-02-2008 04:47AM

Holy disgruntled minorities Mancityman!
John Howard showed up too. He mooned Kevin Rudd from the aisle, but kept his boxers up, because "sorry" was written across the arse of them.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 04:58AM

The minorities probably didn't realise what was really going on anyway due to the excessive consumption of petrol fumes and mouth wash.

dr.bollocko · 13-02-2008 05:02AM

And that's good Howard government mouthwash too.
The rudd government mouthwash is harder to swallow.

landcruiserfj62 · 13-02-2008 05:13AM

I just finished writing a large post on how Australia resembles an English village from the 60's , 70's era. And how if you dont look good on the lawn bowls..lawn... or dont like devenshire teas...your not welcome. Even tho it is a black peoples country.

Anyhow, i stopped! Ah well. Maybe theyll look back in a few hundred years and cringe at themselves. Has to be seen to be believed

dr.bollocko · 13-02-2008 05:21AM

U think australia resembles an english village from the 60s?
Have you ever been? Sydney? Melbourne? Brisbane? Perth? Surfer's Paradise?
What are you on about? Is it the social structure, or the actual place resembles an English village? Either way, I reckon you are incorrect.

landcruiserfj62 · 13-02-2008 06:41AM

Its kind of like..when your driving thru some lil old town in the middle of the desert, and you see all theese signposts "devonshire teas" and lawn bowls. the grammer schools! the school uniforms. its weird in my opinion
...im actually thinking of tenent creek in the northern territory here..then you go down the town further tho to see the most desolate destitute peoples i have ever seen... and do you think the so called "aussies" have any compassion??????

yeah ive been all over oz. Perth was nice. the rest is kind of a mixture between the US deep south, and some old village in Kent (if that makes sense) Particularly in Queensland

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 07:24AM

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

Its kind of like..when your driving thru some lil old town in the middle of the desert, and you see all theese signposts "devonshire teas" and lawn bowls. the grammer schools! the school uniforms. its weird in my opinion
...im actually thinking of tenent creek in the northern territory here..then you go down the town further tho to see the most desolate destitute peoples i have ever seen... and do you think the so called "aussies" have any compassion??????

yeah ive been all over oz. Perth was nice. the rest is kind of a mixture between the US deep south, and some old village in Kent (if that makes sense) Particularly in Queensland

This post gets a big huh?

landcruiserfj62 · 13-02-2008 07:39AM

Hey, didnt you just say "The minorities probably didn't realise what was really going on anyway due to the excessive consumption of petrol fumes and mouth wash"???....this is a type of attitude thats sadly very typical in Australia. the point im making is, i feel the "Aussise" are racists...there, i said it!

Also, since when did u feel like you could speak for a whole internet forum "huh"? (btw, im currently in Australia fyi, and im leaving veryyy soon)

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 07:49AM

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

Hey, didnt you just say "The minorities probably didn't realise what was really going on anyway due to the excessive consumption of petrol fumes and mouth wash"???....this is a type of attitude thats sadly very typical in Australia. the point im making is, i feel the "Aussise" are racists...there, i said it!

Learn to recognise a tongue in cheek comment when you see one.

landcruiserfj62 wrote: »

Also, since when did u feel like you could speak for a whole internet forum "huh"? (btw, im currently in Australia fyi, and im leaving veryyy soon)

I didn't speak for the whole internet, I spoke for myself after reading your nonsensical rubbish. Why you leaving then? Being picked on for being too pastey white?

tallus · 13-02-2008 09:23AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Learn to recognise a tongue in cheek comment when you see one.

It sounded more derogatory than tongue in cheek, and I think it shows what your real attitude towards Aborigines is like.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 09:31AM

tallus wrote: »

It sounded more derogatory than tongue in cheek, and I think it shows what your real attitude towards Aborigines is like.

:rolleyes:

I haven't had enough personal dealings with them to either love or hate them. There is however a lot of animosity and hatred on both sides of the fence between them and the 'white folk'. It's no exaggeration that they are involved in a lot of crime and trouble and that they are fond of getting high in their communities so if I'm a racist for stating that fact then so be it.

Hagar · 13-02-2008 09:44AM

I notice he didn't make any apology for the treatment of the native Tasmanians, no point really I suppose, since they were completely wiped out.

tallus · 13-02-2008 09:49AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I haven't had enough personal dealings with them to either love or hate them. There is however a lot of animosity and hatred on both sides of the fence between them and the 'white folk'. It's no exaggeration that they are involved in a lot of crime and trouble and that they are fond of getting high in their communities so if I'm a racist for stating that fact then so be it.

Just be aware that I didn't accuse you of being a racist. Tho there is a bit of institutionalised racism in Australia, I worked with guys who spent a few years there, they told me some of the aussie guys called the aborigines "Bongs" and why ? Because that's the sound they make when you hit them with the bull bars on your 4X4.
Pretty sickening tbh.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 09:53AM

tallus wrote: »

Just be aware that I didn't accuse you of being a racist. Tho there is a bit of institutionalised racism in Australia, I worked with guys who spent a few years there, they told me some of the aussie guys called the aborigines "Bongs" and why ? Because that's the sound they make when you hit them with the bull bars on your 4X4.
Pretty sickening tbh.

Yeah 'bongs' is a slang them rarely used. Same as 'pikey' or 'culchie' it's a slang term to describe a particular group. I think you'll find them in most countries.

tallus · 13-02-2008 09:55AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah 'bongs' is a slang them rarely used. Same as 'pikey' or 'culchie' it's a slang term to describe a particular group. I think you'll find them in most countries.

Oh well that makes it alright then.
Weird logic.

Xavi6 · 13-02-2008 10:10AM

tallus wrote: »

Oh well that makes it alright then.
Weird logic.

I never said it was alright. You say it as if it's some shocking thing for people to have a term for a minority group. You called it "institutionalised racism in Australia" but neglected to mention that it happens everywhere else too.

Dennis the Stone · 13-02-2008 10:21AM

Australia was without doubt the country where I met the most bigoted, backward people. It was unbelievable, like travelling back in time to the 1940s

Terry · 13-02-2008 10:36AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Jesus, this could end with one half of the world apologising to the other half.

Throughout history pretty much every country on this planet has either shafted, or been shafted by, another.

And before everyone gets all self righteous, The Irish did plenty of shafting, they just did it as part of the British Empire.

No. The British did the shafting and involved Ireland under the 1801 act of union.
Any Irish people willing involved in any wars between 1801 and 1920 signed up to get money for their families and not out of love for the British empire.

voodoo_child wrote: »

Nicole Kidman has a face like a granny, Delta Goodrem is going out with the fat lad from Boyzone, and Elle Macpherson has no boobs :mad:

I saw a home made porno with the Elle Macpherson's sister, Mimi. The sister is quite hot and has nice boobies.

ejmaztec wrote: »

Are they also apologising for preventing Aborigines getting some alcohol down their necks?

Poor buggers won't even be allowed to have a celebratory drink!

Is there a point to this, or is it just some racial stereotyping?

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

better late than never,and a brave stand by the parliment i think.

I agree.
The Aboriginies were displaced and almost wiped out for a bit of land. An apology is the least they deserve.

yeah, coz its not like every irish person complains about how crap ireland is while they live in ireland, eh?
its not the fault of australians that they like their own country the best.

jesus, jingoism is ok for the irish, but begrudgery on anyone else who happens to like their own.

It's AH.
If you're Irish and don't hate your country, then your a 'ra head.
If you're not Irish and have national pride, then you're just a complete arrogant wanker.

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

to be fair, there are some people that still feel strongly about it.

while it means nothing to you or i, or most of the world in general, do you not think that if it makes even a single person feel better, then its worth it?

i mean, there are jews in america who are still looking for apologies over the nazi concentration camps. is it a crock of siht for them as well? are you or i qualified enough to belittle something that means so much for those people?

In fairness to the Jews, they got a country and a few nukes for their troubles.

Xavi6 wrote: »

I understand apologies in the immediate aftermath of an incident but decades down the line is a bit much for me. Yes the Nazi concentration camps etc were horrible but it's not the fault of the current government so why should they be apologising for something a completely off the wall regime did 60 years ago? Does Ireland look for apologies for the years of oppression suffered at the hands of the British?

To be blunt, does there not come a time when you need to be over it?

Some people do.
I wouldn't mind an apology for the entire debacle. It might help ease tensions in the North a bit more.
Even an apology for the 'shoot to kill' policy would be nice.

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm sick to the teeth of this story. The Abos themselves don't really give a f*ck about the apology, all they want is more money and benefits. It's a crock of sh1t really.

Xavi6 wrote: »

The minorities probably didn't realise what was really going on anyway due to the excessive consumption of petrol fumes and mouth wash.

Xavi6 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I haven't had enough personal dealings with them to either love or hate them. There is however a lot of animosity and hatred on both sides of the fence between them and the 'white folk'. It's no exaggeration that they are involved in a lot of crime and trouble and that they are fond of getting high in their communities so if I'm a racist for stating that fact then so be it.

So you haven't had much contact with the Aboriginies, but you feel qualified to say that all they want is handouts from the government and that pretty much all they do is sniff petrol and drink mouthwash?
I don't care for the term "Abo" either. Don't use it again and cut down on the racist comments.
If you can't discuss this without using racist comments, then don't post in this thread again.

Hagar wrote: »

I notice he didn't make any apology for the treatment of the native Tasmanians, no point really I suppose, since they were completely wiped out.

Hey, the prisoners had to have somewhere to live.

Terry · 13-02-2008 10:40AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I never said it was alright. You say it as if it's some shocking thing for people to have a term for a minority group. You called it "institutionalised racism in Australia" but neglected to mention that it happens everywhere else too.

Just because some people use the term "pikey", doesn't mean it's the right thing to do and doesn't excuse derogatory comments.

biko · 13-02-2008 10:43AM

Truganini lives!

Aussies say Sorry

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