Child discipline . Smacking - Yea or Nay

RoundyMooney · 12-02-2008 08:50PM

ADD, among other "modern" ailments, while it does exist, is used far too often as an excuse for bad parenting and learning.

Saying "now Johnny, you can't pull that ladies plate from under her nose while she's trying to enjoy Sunday lunch", or overcompensating with ill placed anger when the red mist descends because you have failed to instruct your child adequately and consistently up to that are equally ridiculous.

I have had to tap my eldest daughter on the leg twice. She's getting on for four. She is also well rounded and well behaved, and will behave appropriately in "quiet" places (churches, restaurants etc.) better than many children twice her age.

It didn't do me any harm, and neither will it her, or her younger sister, if it is ever needed (less if anything, because #1 is already attempting to lead by example).

Some people will blame anything for the ills of the world, as long as its not themselves or their own actions.

Wertz · 12-02-2008 08:50PM

This old chestnut again.
I say beat the sh*t out of them and let the psychiatrists sort it out later.
Seriously though (and I'm not getting into a debate here), a slap/smack within reason, when appropriate is a necessary tool, when new age stuff like time outs and naughty corners just don't cut it...like it or not, fear and pain in very small amounts gets the point across where no amount of talking does. Obviously there is a fine line that borders on it becoming abusive, but I think if you love your child, as most parents do, the last thing you want to do is hurt them so you'll stay within the boundaries of reason...but that said, not disciplining them could hurt them in other ways.
In the finish up it should be down to the individual parent(s)...I would strongly be against the state telling people how to go about bringing up their offspring. The difficulty though is deciding where discipline stops and abuse starts.

Chinafoot · 12-02-2008 08:52PM

I will have no problem with a little smack on the arse for serious bad behaviour. I certainly don't agree with beating or with parents who hit their kids constantly. Hitting a child every single time they misbehave will just result in the slap having absolutely no impact whatsoever. I guess it's more about the shock value and letting the child know how serious you in reprimanding them.

Kids will push the boundaries and see how far they can get. A smack on the bum when they seriously misbehave is ok in my book. Never did me any harm.

Terry · 12-02-2008 08:54PM

Pighead wrote: »

Relax the cacks there Preachy McPreacherson. We're talking about a little slap on the arse here. Whats that got to do with beating up paedophiles! My word such a leap.

Thats like Pighead saying "You people are horrible maggots of society, you think its ok to let our children on sunbeds yet we're not allowed to throw rapists onto bonfires :mad:"

Attack the post, not the poster.

Pighead · 12-02-2008 09:02PM

sueme wrote: »

Such a leap indeed...

If you met me,Pighead and I behaved badly, would you feel you could give me a little slap on the arse?

slipss · 12-02-2008 09:02PM

Peared wrote: »

What kind of message do kids get when people much bigger and stronger than them inflict pain on them to get them to do their will? And we wonder why there are so many little f*uckers out there.

If you (feel you) have to slap you are a sh*t parent.

Have to agree with that. Kids should be thought to understand the difference between right and wrong, not thought to fear punishment. Particuarly not corporol punishment because you get to a stage where they are too big to hit and then the threat of punishment is gone. What your left with in alot of cases is teenagers that have very poor judgment in relation to whats moral and ethical, who have been brought up to think that violence is an exceptable way to excerpt control over those weeker than them and who are now left with parents whos primary form of punishment is obselete running around with out a clue how to control their little brats.

My mother ran a creche/playschool for 10 years for kids from 3 to about 8 and never had to hit one of them once. She was in charge of about 10 kids at a time, 5 days a week, several hours a day. I used to help her out every now and again during the school holidays, if a kid did something wrong (broke a toy/hit another kid) she'd sit them down and talk to them, ask them why they did it, explain to them that they ruined the toy for the other kids ect. They all behaved themselves 90% of the time, they never screamed back at her or threw a tantrum and she never had to lay a finger on one of them. Maybe she was doping them up with some sort of mind controlling lolly pops, or maybe it was the fact she took a course in child psychology and attended several parenting style courses in preperation for her opening the creche so that she knew what she was doing instead of just taking the easy option and bullying them with her superior physical strenght as a short term fix, it was one or the other.

Resorting to hitting children is the absalute height of laziness and if you turn around and say "ohh it doesn't matter what you say to little Johnny, the only thing he understands is a smack" then you should have done your job properly earlier on or you should learn to do it properly now.

TequilaMockingBird · 12-02-2008 09:07PM

I don't see, in this scenario, the difference between a slap, a "nudge" (?) or a beating. It is all physical violence towards a child. I stand by my opinion that if you feel you must resort to striking a child then you have fu*cked up. Badly.

My child is here beside me, and I have explained to her that some people think it is okay to hit a child. She is confused as to why, when she has been taught all her life to respect people, that some would think it is acceptable to hit another person.

Dudess · 12-02-2008 09:07PM

Well there is a difference between a tiny slap and a beating - whatever the scenario. I know what you're saying: physical violence is physical violence is physical violence, but I'm saying there are varying degrees. A beating is way off the chart extreme and it's not appropriate to place it in the same context as a tiny flick of the hand that barely hurts.

This is directed to non parents who view it as wrong:
Unless you're a parent how can you know whether you'd do it or not though? And I think most reasonable people would only administer a slap as a last resort or in the absolute heat of the moment. Who's to say they don't feel sh!t afterwards either?

deemy · 12-02-2008 09:09PM

Chinafoot wrote: »

I will have no problem with a little smack on the arse for serious bad behaviour. I certainly don't agree with beating or with parents who hit their kids constantly. Hitting a child every single time they misbehave will just result in the slap having absolutely no impact whatsoever. I guess it's more about the shock value and letting the child know how serious you in reprimanding them.

Kids will push the boundaries and see how far they can get. A smack on the bum when they seriously misbehave is ok in my book. Never did me any harm.

+1. I don't ever remember being slapped as a kid but I was a well behaved one till I hit teens anyhow. If i have kids i agree that a tap in extreme circumstances is fine. My poor boyfriend and his brother were chased with wavin pipes and flowerpots. He has a scar on the back of his head from a flower pot:D:D. But don't forget this was in a different age and they were total tearaways. Plus a lot of it was threating rather than actually hitting. He just got unlucky

littlebitdull · 12-02-2008 09:13PM

You cant reason with a five year old... maybe not. But you can put them in time out, you can take away their tv time, you can spend quality time with them so they are not
misbehaving to get your attention.

You can indeed disapline children without resorting to violence. Slapping/smacking kids is a release for the parent. Its a way of getting your frustration out. Its not the best way of correcting inapproaprate behaviour. There are better ways.

The better ways are harder, and harder to stick to. Its so so much easier to just smack the child. To then justifiy it to yourself that "sure it never done me any harm..." But in reality it just releases your own anger. Its not the answer.

All it teaches kids is that its ok to be violent.

And yea most of the time as a parent you do feel pretty crap for hitting your child.

Rb · 12-02-2008 09:15PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well there is a difference between a tiny slap and a beating - whatever the scenario. I know what you're saying: physical violence is physical violence is physical violence, but I'm saying there are varying degrees. A beating is way off the chart extreme and it's not appropriate to place it in the same context as a tiny flick of the hand that barely hurts.

Exactly, and it absolutely baffles me as to why sueme, a supposed adult, cannot differentiate between the terms "slap" and "beating"

Catari Jaguar · 12-02-2008 09:18PM

Smacking kids will only teach them fear and not wrong from right, and probably make them violent and unable to deal with anger. Physically punishing kids makes them better at one thing; not getting caught.

Supernanny never hits the kids and they are all under perfect control. Nip a situation in the bud when the kid is young, and show them who's boss and what's acceptable and what isn't. Same with school, many primary teachers have really well behaved kids in a controlled classroom environment and NEVER raise a hand to them (or threaten to). You can be firm and set boundaries w/o resorting to violence.

Bad behaviour is learned behaviour, kids don't make themselves spoiled, attention seeking little brats. Too many kids are raised by TV these days and their parents buy their love and turn them into monsters. The parents should be the ones getting slapped!

Toots · 12-02-2008 09:23PM

I think a slap on the arse or the hand is ok. Sure I got the wooden spoon as a kid and I turned out grand! I think sometimes when kids are having a tantrum and really losing the rag a slap can snap them out of it. However if it's overused it loses it's effectiveness. I got a few slaps as a kid, but tbh, most of the time all my parents had to do was threaten it and we'd behave, but if you keep threatening and never go through with it the kid will eventually work out you're not going to do it and will run rings around you.

There's nothing worse than some bold little st!te who's parents are too afraid to discipline them. When I have kids I'll give them the odd ass reddening if they're acting the b*llocks!

Dudess · 12-02-2008 09:28PM

Toots85 wrote: »

I think a slap on the arse or the hand is ok. Sure I got the wooden spoon as a kid and I turned out grand!

No you didn't. You seem like an unbalanced loner to me... so it's the wooden SPOON what done it!

TequilaMockingBird · 12-02-2008 09:30PM

A flick of the hand or a beating. Who measures the strengh of this, if we need to get to the nitty gritty of it. A flick of the hand from an 8 st female, who has lost the rag? A 20 st man who is doing it for peace sake. Or a 15 st man who has had enough??

Violence towards a child is violence towards a child. We can't do it in any other areas of society, why is it okay in this situation?

The violence to the child is not about the physical pain, its the humiliation, the fear, the anticipated fear, the helplessness and the loneliness.

As for "you can't communicate with a 5 year old"? Well I could. Feel free to PM me for any help.

Dudess · 12-02-2008 09:33PM

There are sadly parents who inflict unthinkable horrors on their children - like http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/gloucestershire/6449027.stm

You are unintentionally trivialising those children's experiences by comparing them to someone like, say, me who grew up in a very comfortable household with a loving family yet got the very odd slap on the hand, leg or arse.

Chong · 12-02-2008 09:35PM

I agree, it moulds ya!!!!

Obviously I am not saying I think you deserved a slapping

Catari Jaguar · 12-02-2008 09:36PM

Sugar Drunk wrote: »

A mate has 2 kids and it drives me crazy. There are no rules. They do not have a bedtime, they go when they like. They are allowed to dictate the TV and tantrums ensue if they cannot watch what they want. The other day he wouldnt eat in the living room as 'I dont let the boys do it so its not fair If I do it'. b**locks. there are different rules for adults and kids and kids should not be expecting the same rights as adults. Theres no concept of money either just 'i want' and tears of they don't get.

So these parents never set any boundaries and let the children run the house? The poor kids are so mixed up as to who the parents are and the parents give them whatever they want and make it clear to the child that tantrums work.

My God! The kids deserved to be punished? What other way would they behave in that household?? I think it's being made pretty clear to the kids for their whole lives that this is the status quo and what they are doing is allowed. How will slapping the kids improve this situation?????

What that house needs are RULES. Not slaps. Those parents need to wake up and cop the fcuk on and realise that THEY ARE IN CHARGE, enforce rules and stick to them. Next time a kid wants to do something, try saying a firm "NO". If the kid has a tantrum, just let them and walk off. They'll soon get bored of this when they see it doesn't work and generally feel silly.

And for all you who think "slapping never did me any harm". It did, it taught you that it's ok to hit kids because you can't hack it as parents.

Toots · 12-02-2008 09:37PM

Dudess wrote: »

No you didn't. You seem like an unbalanced loner to me... so it's the wooden SPOON what done it!

Sob!! That's what my shrink said too, but I'm working through the issues!!:(

Actually in fairness I only got the spoon once, and I'd really gone too far that time. Once was enough tho, the threat of it was enough after! If I'd been my Mum, I'd have used the spoon too!

A friend of mine used to get the slipper, or the belt. And strict as I thought my parents were, they were appauled when they heard about the belt. They both said that when they did have to slap us, they felt horrible about it afterwards. I think some people seem to think parents get some sort of enjoyment out of hitting their child, but anyone who I've talked to about disciplining their child says they feel dreadful if they slap them, but that they honestly felt that the childs behaviour warranted a slap. (let me emphasise slap not a beating)

terrier98045 · 12-02-2008 09:39PM

this violence nonsense is crap, we're assuming the post isn't about beating the livin daylights out of them.....

i reckon one of the biggest problems is that there is no respect for authority amongst children anymore, we've gone too much down the line of "treating them as adults", the fact remains that for generations of children smacking by parents and teachers was taken as a given and generally speaking kids were much better behaved in those days than now.

I'm in favour of a gentle smack from parents to teach the child in extreme circumstances that what they did was wrong

RoundyMooney · 12-02-2008 09:40PM

Dudess is right.

Making seemingly hysterical sweeping statements only cheapens the debate, as does filling a five year olds head with the vagaries of child rearing and the nasty man who beats his kids.

I mean, if you're not making the distinction here, who's to say you did when you discussed it with your child?

Cruelty to the vulnerable breaks my heart, as does watching kids being treated with often unintentional disdain by their parents, or being subjected to roared expletives, which they inevitably are so used to, that they ignore.

Being told I'm a sh1t parent, have ****3d up, or can't do my job properly by keyboard warriors who don't know me, just makes me chuckle.

Catari Jaguar · 12-02-2008 09:47PM

Slapping is totally unnecessary. And yes, if the only way you can "discipline" your child is by slapping them when they do something wrong then you need a parenting book. Not trying to being a smart arse or disrespectful. There are so many methods out there and fear is NOT a good method of control. It really isn't.

And whoever says you can't reason with a five year old, you are very wrong. i teach eleven 5 year old boys and I have firm control on them, and a very pleasant environment. Children need boundaries and rules and structure. they love it. Without it, they go mad and who can blame them? If my class got out of control and I smacked a kid (even lightly), I'd be in sh1t! If my class is out of control, I'M to blame, and it's up to me to solve the problem and not take out my frustration on them by hitting them.

And also, I teach a boy with ADHD, whose behaviour has increased by about 90% since last year because I have a good handle on him. I never slapped him no.

TequilaMockingBird · 12-02-2008 09:49PM

My final word on it is that I really believe alot of the problems we all face today are due to this attitude that violence towards your kids is okay.

How will they know that it is then wrong for them to disrespect someone else?

Helix · 12-02-2008 09:50PM

Lil Kitten wrote: »

fear is NOT a good method of control

at base level, fear is the ONLY method of control

if you punish your children by not letting them watch tv, why do they behave? because theyre afraid theyre not going to be able to watch tv

all control boils down to fear, not respect, not good behaviour, just fear

why dont people run round doing whatever they want? they fear the consequences

TequilaMockingBird · 12-02-2008 09:51PM

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Slapping is totally unnecessary. And yes, if the only way you can "discipline" your child is by slapping them when they do something wrong then you need a parenting book. Not trying to being a smart arse or disrespectful. There are so many methods out there and fear is NOT a good method of control. It really isn't.

And whoever says you can't reason with a five year old, you are very wrong. i teach eleven 5 year old boys and I have firm control on them, and a very pleasant environment. Children need boundaries and rules and structure. they love it. Without it, they go mad and who can blame them? If my class got out of control and I smacked a kid (even lightly), I'd be in sh1t! If my class is out of control, I'M to blame, and it's up to me to solve the problem and not take out my frustration on them by hitting them.

And also, I teach a boy with ADHD, whose behaviour has increased by about 90% since last year because I have a good handle on him. I never slapped him no.

+1

and 2

and 3

going to do some deep breathing excercises or something, need to get the blood pressure down.

Lockstep · 12-02-2008 09:53PM

Cianos wrote: »

Funny that nearly everyone who said that they were slapped when they were a kid also say they were little terrors. Coincidence?

Ah now,

I was an absolute terror.

I genuinely was, I was always causing havoc and making trouble. All my brothers and sisters were the usual naughty kids but I was the worst.

Thank GOd my parents weren't like those high profile Americans who prescribe their kid pills for every little children's mischief.

I see no problem with a parent disciplining their child (NEVER a teacher, coach or non parent) as long as they keep it fair. I see a lot of posts here of people who/who's parents were teachers/etc.
Bad example. Both my parents were teachers and they would give me the odd smack on the arse with their hand (the wooden spoon was never used despite being constantly threatened) and would use the usual rules of discipline in the classroom. Kids tend to naturally act deferential to non-parent adults if said adult treats the kid at all reasonably and is willing to tell them off. I'd be far more scared of some busy body pensioner telling me offf than my dad ever giving me a smack.

Although I'd find it almost impossible to hit my own kids in the event I have any.

irishthump · 12-02-2008 10:00PM

sueme wrote: »

My final word on it is that I really believe alot of the problems we all face today are due to this attitude that violence towards your kids is okay.

How will they know that it is then wrong for them to disrespect someone else?

Horsesh*t!

I have 3 boys aged 4, 6 and 10 and have never had a problem with slapping as a punishment, providing.....

a) the child has already been VERBALLY warned beforehand. ie - Junior, if you don't stop chewing the dog's tail, you're gonna get a slap.

b) the actual punishment invloves a single slap to the palm of the hand or rear end, NEVER the face. (I can hear all you purists saying, "Hand, face, what's the difference?!!", but there is a HUGE difference, believe me.)

My wife and I have always adopted that approach, and to be honest we very rarely have to slap our children. In fact, I can't remember the last time I smacked any of them.

Toots · 12-02-2008 10:04PM

irishthump wrote: »

Horsesh*t!

I have 3 boys aged 4, 6 and 10 and have never had a problem with slapping as a punishment, providing.....

a) the child has already been VERBALLY warned beforehand. ie - Junior, if you don't stop chewing the dog's tail, you're gonna get a slap.

b) the actual punishment invloves a single slap to the palm of the hand or rear end, NEVER the face. (I can hear all you purists saying, "Hand, face, what's the difference?!!", but there is a HUGE difference, believe me.)

My wife and I have always adopted that approach, and to be honest we very rarely have to slap our children. In fact, I can't remember the last time I smacked any of them.

This is exactly the kind of parenting I agree with. The slap has no merit if you see the kid doing something naughty and just go up and lamp them without saying anything! A warning (more than one perhaps) must preceed the slap. And also only to slap when the child is misbehaving, no retrospective slapping. Like if the child did something naughty during the day there's no point giving them a slap that evening. The slap is the 'short-sharp-shock' that stops them seriously misbehaving.

Lockstep · 12-02-2008 10:07PM

Toots85 wrote: »

This is exactly the kind of parenting I agree with. The slap has no merit if you see the kid doing something naughty and just go up and lamp them without saying anything! A warning (more than one perhaps) must preceed the slap. And also only to slap when the child is misbehaving, no retrospective slapping. Like if the child did something naughty during the day there's no point giving them a slap that evening. The slap is the 'short-sharp-shock' that stops them seriously misbehaving.

+1

Rb · 12-02-2008 10:07PM

sueme wrote: »

My final word on it is that I really believe alot of the problems we all face today are due to this attitude that violence towards your kids is okay.

What a crock of sh1t.

Child discipline . Smacking - Yea or Nay

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