Do I need to lift heavier/push myself more?

onewoman · 06-02-2008 04:14PM #1

Hi guys,

A few weeks ago I was asking about the benefits of cardio/resistance for women and you were all really helpful, thanks

I've been doing weights, incl. squats, benchpresses, lat pulldown for about 40 minutes and 15 - 20 minutes of fairly intense cardio (about three times a week) since then. While my clothes fit better (yay!), progress seems to be quite slow.

I'm 5"3 and weight 8 st 12. A couple of months ago, when not doing any real exercise, I was also this weight. Now, although the same weight, my bodyfat has dropped from 24.7% to 23%, so I have lost a little bit of fat, and like I say, my clothes fit a bit better, so something must be right.

I'm just wondering, should I push myself harder now - should I try and manage heavier weights? At the moment I can't do any more than 9 or 10 reps.

Another thing is that I've become slightly lax with my diet lately - eating more starch and sugar than I was a couple of weeks ago, but that's also because I want to be realistic about the kind of food I can reasonably live with in the longterm!

I'd still like to be a bit slimmer; any advice would be appreciated - thanks!

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 04:23PM

Broad question. I would not increase the weight if I was doing more than 15 reps. When I was able to do fifteen reps then I would increase weight by next increment. The reason you are still the same weight is that muscle is heavier than fat. Therefore as mentioned you are losing you fat weight.
The benefit of gaining muscle mass is that muscle will burn calories all the time (even when your resting) whereas cardio is only burning while you are doing the exercise. Don't be afraid of getting too muscular because women do not have the level of testosterone to cause the muscles that men get (unless they take some kind of supplements)

Remember though that diet is extremely important so keep up the good work.

Qualified ACE Personal Trainer

Colm_OReilly · 06-02-2008 04:36PM

Yes, always aim to lift heavier until form breaks down or you can't complete the reps. As a novice lifter, you'll have linear progression, ie you should be able to step up the weight lifted each session, quicker in some lifts than others.

So your clothes are looser and you are making progress? Nice work!

I'd advise lifting more for strength, as it produce a faster response. So stick to a weight you can lift about 5 times, rather than pushing towards ten.

If you'd like to post your current routine we could tweak it to increase the rate of improvement?

Colm

cowzerp · 06-02-2008 04:39PM

onewoman wrote: »

I'm just wondering, should I push myself harder now - should I try and manage heavier weights? At the moment I can't do any more than 9 or 10 reps.

Another thing is that I've become slightly lax with my diet lately - eating more starch and sugar than I was a couple of weeks ago, but that's also because I want to be realistic about the kind of food I can reasonably live with in the longterm!

I'd still like to be a bit slimmer; any advice would be appreciated - thanks!

O'k 1st of, cut out the sugars and cut down on the starch!

if your challenged for 9-10 reps your doing fine, if its anyway easy push the weight up so its a challenge-the diet is your main concern right now though..

ali.c · 06-02-2008 04:41PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Broad question. I would not increase the weight if I was doing more than 15 reps. When I was able to do fifteen reps then I would increase weight by next increment. The reason you are still the same weight is that muscle is heavier than fat. Therefore as mentioned you are losing you fat weight.

If i was to follow that advice I never would of made any progress in the gym. Specifically for me on the excercise I have progressed the most with i have done so by dropping the rep range down to 5-8 per set.
Really IMHO (and i have no qualifications) if i get stuck at a weight i mixed up the sets/reps for a while and that usually helps push through the barrier between weights.

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 04:41PM

Lifting weight that you can only lift 5 times are more suitable to rugby players. Also chance of not lifting correctly and injuring yourself are higher. I presume you are not looking to lift as heavy a weight as you can five times. Bit advanced me thinks

cowzerp · 06-02-2008 04:44PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Lifting weight that you can only lift 5 times are more suitable to rugby players. Also chance of not lifting correctly and injuring yourself are higher. I presume you are not looking to lift as heavy a weight as you can five times. Bit advanced me thinks

2/3rds of human body is made up of white fibre types that are activated in the lower rep zones, if you want to be toned then its better to hit 2/3rds than focusing on just 1/3rd of the red fibres which are for higher repetitions!
mix it up and use good form.

ali.c · 06-02-2008 04:45PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Lifting weight that you can only lift 5 times are more suitable to rugby players.

Why??

Malteaser! · 06-02-2008 04:45PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Lifting weight that you can only lift 5 times are more suitable to rugby players. Also chance of not lifting correctly and injuring yourself are higher. I presume you are not looking to lift as heavy a weight as you can five times. Bit advanced me thinks

I assume by the rugby players comment you mean more suitable for strength and muscle?? It's not just as simple as low weight and lots of reps equals fat burning in fact heavy sets where you're building more muscle and elevating your BMR is probably more effective when it comes to fat loss.

As for injuries, the chances of your form breaking down later on in high rep sets is much greater than with low reps, assuming you're not using a weight thats too heavy to lift with good form. So to that end, low rep sets really aren't any more dangerous than sets of 12 - 15.

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 04:50PM

All very interesting, can people put there qualifications at end of posts.

If I were working with the above client ,I would not want to scare her away by doing what is being mentioned, I presume she is a average person who just want to do a reasonably sensible program. Why don't we advise her to do Mike Mentzers High intensity training to failure all together or how about negative only training as it cause better fibre stimulation, better again why not go witl Little's Max contraction training

BrokenArrows · 06-02-2008 04:53PM

If he op was more into losing fat should she not be going to low intensity workout to aid the burning of fat.

Everyone here seems to be advising the upping of the intensity.

I dont know much but the general rule is low intensity = fatburn, high intensity=cardio.

ali.c · 06-02-2008 04:55PM

jj1310 wrote: »

All very interesting, can people put there qualifications at end of posts.

I already stated i didnt have any was just sharing my experience

I presume she is a average person who just want to do a reasonably sensible program.

So doing sets of 15 on deadlifts is what sensible now??

Why don't we advise her to do Mike Mentzers High intensity training to failure all together or how about negative only training as it cause better fibre stimulation, better again why not go witl Little's Max contraction training

If the OP hits a bit of a plateau wrt to strength increases then mixing it up will help her to break through it!!

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 04:59PM

No mention of deadlifts above

g'em · 06-02-2008 05:00PM

jj1310 wrote: »

No mention of deadlifts above

Right so can you clarify what your advise is? Reps, sets and suggested exercises?

Malteaser! · 06-02-2008 05:05PM

jj1310 wrote: »

All very interesting, can people put there qualifications at end of posts.

If I were working with the above client ,I would not want to scare her away by doing what is being mentioned, I presume she is a average person who just want to do a reasonably sensible program. Why don't we advise her to do Mike Mentzers High intensity training to failure all together or how about negative only training as it cause better fibre stimulation, better again why not go witl Little's Max contraction training

I started off as the 'average' person and it was suggested to me to work with lower rep sets but to increase the number of sets that I"m doing so I could learn the individual movements without having my form break down. Since then, I've gone from a size 10 to an 8 without making any other major changes to my diet. I don't need to have a qualification to share information that has worked for me.

And don't be so sensationalist...Nobody is suggesting something as brutal as HIT for this woman.

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 05:05PM

My personal advise would be get a qualified personal trainer.

Problem is you see we have no screening information. We would have to discuss what the clients goals are. Would have to assess her current level of fitness. For example lets say this client has a heart pressure problem, would a heavy, high intensity weight for five lifts be suitable???? that why I leaned towards a lighter weight, safety first .

Anyway even the experts in resistance training vary in what they reckon is the best way to do any particular type of weights program.

onewoman · 06-02-2008 05:08PM

Wow, thanks for all the replies people!

I'm getting the message about upping the weights a bit and mixing it around. Also, I know I have to stop having wholewheat pasta in the evenings and cadbury's creme eggs (they've just been everywhere lately!) -- was just hoping somebody could tell me that there was a way of keeping that kind of stuff in my diet if I worked harder at the gym or something.

Malteaser! · 06-02-2008 05:10PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Me personal advise would be get a qualified personal trainer.

Problem is you see we have no screening information. We would have to discuss what the clients goals are. Would have to assess her current level of fitness. For example lets say this client has a heart pressure problem, would a heavy, high intensity weight for five lifts be suitable???? that why I leaned towards a lighter weight, safety first .

Anyway even the expert in weight vary in what they reckon is the best way to do any particular type of weights program.

Nobody said that the sets of 5 would be to failure, in fact I believe failure is detrimental to progress when it comes to weight training so I guess thats a moot point. I would hazard a guess that sets of 15 have a much greater effect on raising heart rate than sets of 5 would. Think about the shortness of breath and 'the pump' caused by increased blood flow to the muscles, it would seem that this is as a result of the heart working harder?

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 05:15PM

Sorry Onewomen, if you want to PM with more specific questions, I will offer my professional advice. This has turned into a silly argument what I deal with on a regular basis. Experts with little to no qualifications. Sorry if this offends anyone but correct me if I wrong. I’m not trying to be arrogant but I regularly get clients who are told this and that by non professionals and I end up getting them referred from their Physio with an injury.

onewoman · 06-02-2008 05:15PM

Malteaser! wrote: »

Since then, I've gone from a size 10 to an 8 without making any other major changes to my diet.

Malteaser, I like the sound of that! I'm a size 10 at the moment - did it take you long to achieve results? It's not that I especially want to be a size 8, but if I stop exercising/watching my food for a while, I drift towards a 12 on the hips - and that's what I want to get control over. Do you have a specific workout that you would mind sharing with me please?

Thanks!

Colm_OReilly · 06-02-2008 05:20PM

Intensity in weight training is a percentage of maximal strength, and greater adaptations occur at higher intensities (Kilgore & Rippetoe - Practical Programming)

Also chance of not lifting correctly and injuring yourself are higher. I presume you are not looking to lift as heavy a weight as you can five times.

Now, not all form breakdowns are dangerous, or have a potential to cause injury. Repeated and consistent training with poor form can create imbalances which may lead to injury. Plus, I know of no evidence based on my experience as a trainer, nor of studies, that shows one rep scheme to be more prone to injury than another.

I would not want to scare her away by doing what is being mentioned, I presume she is a average person who just want to do a reasonably sensible program.

The OP has posted before and we've given her advice. She has made improvements and is back for more, so she is happy with our advice thusfar. But yes, caveat emptor. We are, after all, people on an internet forum.

I dont know much but the general rule is low intensity = fatburn, high intensity=cardio.

Debated and debunked ad nauseum on this forum.

Can people provide their name when posting?

Colm
-CrossFit Level 1 Trainer
-SBG Trainer
-IAWA Level 1 Coach
-BSc Sports Management

Colm_OReilly · 06-02-2008 05:21PM

onewoman you certainly know how to start threads!

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 05:23PM

She certainly does. My advice is to pay a few bob and get a personal trainer. Try a few sessions and if you thinks its not worth the cash, don't continue with my advise.

Dragan · 06-02-2008 05:34PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Qualified ACE Personal Trainer

Your breaking some charter rules matey.

Try giving them a read before you post further. Keep the attitude going and i'll just ban you. This is not a place for the qualified to come on and talk about how qualified they are.

It is a place for information sharing.

Don't feel bad, if Chad Waterbury, Eric Cressey and Dan John came here and posted in the same fashion i'd slap them on the wrist as well.

Now, reign back the attitude or post no more.

The choice as they say, is yours.

Dragan -
Moderator

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 05:41PM

Apologies, not my intention. Just advice given should really come from professionals in field in my opinion especially when it comes to people health and safety.

Anyhow I apologise wholeheartedly

Roper · 06-02-2008 05:43PM

jj1310 wrote: »

My personal advise would be get a qualified personal trainer.

Problem is you see we have no screening information. We would have to discuss what the clients goals are. Would have to assess her current level of fitness. For example lets say this client has a heart pressure problem, would a heavy, high intensity weight for five lifts be suitable???? that why I leaned towards a lighter weight, safety first .

Anyway even the experts in resistance training vary in what they reckon is the best way to do any particular type of weights program.

While I understand your safety first attitude, over-cautious attitudes towards fitness is the reason very few people acheive fitness goals when they join a gym. "Don't do that you might hurt yourself". Obviously high blood pressure is a medical probmen and should be dealt with medically, but would you recommend high reps for a perfectly healthy person trying to acheive a higher level of fitness?

ali.c · 06-02-2008 05:49PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Just advice given should really come from professionals in field in my opinion especially when it comes to people health and safety.

Its the internet though... its not like every poster can have there credentials validated so too speak and no offense intended but for all anyone else knows you might actually not really be qualified~!

Vegeta · 06-02-2008 05:50PM

Roper wrote: »

but would you recommend high reps for a perfectly healthy person trying to acheive a higher level of fitness?

Good question, I am wondering the same thing

jj1310 · 06-02-2008 05:51PM

Point taken. People do need to be careful with advice they give

onewoman · 06-02-2008 05:51PM

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

onewoman you certainly know how to start threads!

It's not deliberate, Colm, believe me! I just want to be strong and slim!

Who knew that fitness was so controversial?

And, btw, I have only ever seen one other woman in the weights section with me (and that was just once). I'm convinced that there are lots of people out there telling us girls that they just need to do those silly leg lifts. I did those for years on and off and got nowhere - I know my progress is slower than I'd like here but at least I can actually see a difference with the heavy weights. Raarr

OK, rant over. Go back to fighting amongst yourselves.

Dragan · 06-02-2008 05:53PM

jj1310 wrote: »

Apologies, not my intention. Just advice given should really come from professionals in field in my opinion especially when it comes to people health and safety.

Anyhow I apologise wholeheartedly

Not to worry! The first rule that we have is that we keep things polite, and the second is to remember its the Internet!

All advice here is just that, general advice and discussion. When us Mods feel that something would be better left up to the pro's we tend to just advise as such and shut down the thread.

The joy of a forum like this is that while millions of people google these questions everyday, at least here they get a good mix of answers from all types of levels and also the benefit of speaking to both the trainee and trainer at times about personal experience!

Anyway, glad to have you on the board and looking forward to reading more from you!

Do I need to lift heavier/push myself more?

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