New scam for gettin ripped off at ATM's

dloob · 26-01-2008 03:03PM

I found a similar case from portadown.
www.portadowntimes.co.uk
I notice that the women arrested have addresses in Dublin

Crazy Christ · 26-01-2008 03:04PM

Is that article about ATM fraud from the Daily Mail? hehe

So what happened to the card then? The money wouldn't come out unless the card had been removed. Who removed the card and where did it go?

Was wondering that myself.

ztoical · 26-01-2008 03:06PM

gurramok wrote: »

Racism i hear?

See this from breaking news(http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfcwqlkfau/), it involves a 15 yr old Romanian boy(whether Roma or not) committing said scam on ATM's

Hardly an urban legend.

Another involving a 12yr old Romanian girl(whether Roma or not)
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfeyqlkfey/

Hardly an urban legend.

See this article in the newspaper (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x283/gurra2011/Misc/DSCN0159.jpg ).
Its not related to Roma kids but verifies that all skimming at ATM's that has occurred in this country has been committed by ahem 'non-nationals'.

Miss Dillon of the IPSO(Irish Payment Services Organisation) states that 'The gangs come into the country for a few days and leave. They travel around the country. Every single county in Ireland has been hit. The people involved tend to be Eastern European. No Irish people have been involved to date

Hardly an urban legend.

I think the issue here is the racial sterotyping I've got a hundred stories just like those cept the person doing all the bad things is Irish and no one wants to here about that. The crap in the last paragraph no Irish people have been involve to date is just that crap - those ATM scams were happening long before the big influx of people from eastern europe and else where it just makes for nice headlines now as it plays on peoples fear and racism.

monkeyfudge · 26-01-2008 03:13PM

I still haven't heard what happened to the bank card.

There's actually some good advice in that Snopes article by the way on staying safe at a bank machine.

There are precautions folks can take to lessen their chances of being victimized when using ATM or cashpoint machines. While some work to protect users from having their financial information stolen and others to lessen the chances of being mugged at the machines, they all bear taking to heart:

* Always shield your PIN from prying eyes. Use your body to block anyone's view of the keypad, or cup your non-keying hand over the pad as you use it. Do this whether you're at an ATM, a gas pump, or inside a store.

* Don't use an ATM if people insist upon standing around it. Politely ask them to move aside, and if they refuse, go somewhere else. If you find yourself being crowded while in the middle of a transaction, hit the "Cancel" button, remove the card from the machine and go elsewhere.

* Don't use any ATM that appears to be out of the ordinary. Turn up your nose at cashpoints sporting signs affixed to the machines or instruction screens asking you to do things that don't seem right (such as entering your PIN multiple times). Report these discrepancies immediately to the bank in question or the police.

* Get into the habit of using the same ATM for almost all of your transactions so as to better recognize when something is different with the machine. Be wary of any changes you see on its outside. If the ATM is affixed to a bank, walk in and ask why the changes were made.

* Never take advice from "helpful" strangers about how to get your card back if an ATM keeps it. Report a machine-trapped card to your bank as soon as possible so that the card can be deactivated if it is was not kept for legitimate reasons.

Crazy Christ · 26-01-2008 03:15PM

and watch out for jedi street urchins who can remove your card and money using the force

monkeyfudge · 26-01-2008 03:16PM

Crazy Christ wrote: »

and watch out for jedi street urchins who can remove your card and money using the force

God damn younglings... they can read your PIN right out of your mind as well.

gurramok · 26-01-2008 03:18PM

ztoical wrote: »

I think the issue here is the racial sterotyping I've got a hundred stories just like those cept the person doing all the bad things is Irish and no one wants to here about that. The crap in the last paragraph no Irish people have been involve to date is just that crap - those ATM scams were happening long before the big influx of people from eastern europe and else where it just makes for nice headlines now as it plays on peoples fear and racism.

Why is it crap when the watchdog IPSO disagrees with you?

Of course Irish people have robbed others from ATM's. Can you find proof that Irish people have been involved in skimming? (now i say skimming not a junkie holding his syringe to an ATM user type robbery)

The sophisticated ATM car skimming has been reported as primarily carried out by non-nationals, it's been highlighted as fact and you deny it.

ztoical · 26-01-2008 03:24PM

gurramok wrote: »

Why is it crap when the watchdog IPSO disagrees with you?

Of course Irish people have robbed others from ATM's. Can you find proof that Irish people have been involved in skimming? (now i say skimming not a junkie holding his syringe to an ATM user type robbery)

The sophisticated ATM car skimming has been reported as primarily carried out by non-nationals, it's been highlighted as fact and you deny it.

I don't deny that non-nationals have carried it out but I think your over sensationalising it as it plays on peoples fears of the big evil eastern european. Can you prove that no irish person has ever been involved in skimming? The roma and other eastern europeans are becoming the irish version of the fear of attack by a black man in the US

Bard · 26-01-2008 03:31PM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I still haven't heard what happened to the bank card.

I would assume that the person grabbing the money is standing to the side of the machine that the money is dispensed on and couldn't reach across to the side that the card comes out without being noticed.

Neamhshuntasach · 26-01-2008 03:36PM

i just got bank from the bank machine and it gave me the money first and then it spit out my card. Think it was a TSB one.

the south americans are great for the aul scams. such precision

steveland? · 26-01-2008 03:38PM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I still haven't heard what happened to the bank card.

There's actually some good advice in that Snopes article by the way on staying safe at a bank machine.

I agree with ya here monkeyfudge...

breakingnews.ie seem to have left out an important part of the story.

Bold bit is left out:
Card entered, pin entered, amount entered, card removed, money given

There's always a delay of a couple of seconds between entering the amount, the bank authorising the transaction, the card coming out, the card being removed and the money coming out...

I'd imagine it'd be difficult to distract someone from one side long enough for the guy on the other side to enter the amount, wait for the transaction to be authorised, wait for the card to come out, remove the card, wait for the money to come out and then grab the money...

The first post makes it sound like they just noticed someone touching the keypad and were pissing down Henry st with it in a split second...

Too many holes in that story for me to believe it...

Although having said that the ATMs in places like Spar and Centra sometimes ask you to put your card in and remove them before going about the transaction. It'd be slightly less time and you wouldn't have to worry about the card being taken out to steal money but those also have to wait for the transaction to be authorised before the money comes out... Plus you're in a shop, probably surrounded by people and if there's small Roma kids hanging around an ATM in this day and age I'd imagine the manager and staff would be wary of them and usually kick them out...

Kold · 26-01-2008 03:40PM

It's hardly innovative. People should be aware of this sh*t when they use an ATM anyway ffs. I would've actually slapped the sh*t out of the kid.

gurramok · 26-01-2008 03:41PM

ztoical wrote: »

I don't deny that non-nationals have carried it out but I think your over sensationalising it as it plays on peoples fears of the big evil eastern european. Can you prove that no irish person has ever been involved in skimming? The roma and other eastern europeans are becoming the irish version of the fear of attack by a black man in the US

LOL...so you put onus on me to prove no Irish person has been involved in skimming yet its me digging up info to prove you wrong.
There have been no newspaper or court reports of Irish people involved in such activity, can you dig up such info? (hint: try a google search)

Irish people ram raiding ATM's with JCB's don't count as we are specifically talking about skimming.

The IPSO of which every single banking institution in this coutry operates has membership disagree with you and proclaim no Irish person has been involved, yet you call them liars!

Your the one playing the race card, i'm highlighting a tiny minority of foreigners who are involved in skimming activity.
In case your wondering, I work with 7 hard working eastern europeans so try not to play the race card on that one.

ztoical · 26-01-2008 03:51PM

gurramok wrote: »

LOL...so you put onus on me to prove no Irish person has been involved in skimming yet its me digging up info to prove you wrong.
There have been no newspaper or court reports of Irish people involved in such activity, can you dig up such info? (hint: try a google search)

Irish people ram raiding ATM's with JCB's don't count as we are specifically talking about skimming.

The IPSO of which every single banking institution in this coutry operates has membership disagree with you and proclaim no Irish person has been involved, yet you call them liars!

Your the one playing the race card, i'm highlighting a tiny minority of foreigners who are involved in skimming activity.
In case your wondering, I work with 7 hard working eastern europeans so try not to play the race card on that one.

I was trying to keep this on topic with the OP - with the telling of that story it shouldn't matter what race the children are - same goes for all the skimming and what not going on with. My issue isn't wither or not people are scamming ATM's they are but the fact that alot of people on this thread started sharing stories of "i saw this roma do this" or "i heard this story about a roma.." Monkyfudge posted a good list of what you should be doing at ATMs to protect yourself from fraud - people should go and read that rather then freaking out about hoards of roma children coming to rob them.

And do I call the ipso lairs? I guess I do as I think its very brave/foolish to stand up and say never about anything.

DJ_Spider · 26-01-2008 04:07PM

I used to watch a program on UK TV about how to avoid being scammed. They actually showed you how they can skim your ATM card. In the UK it is easier as we have swipe cards to top up our mobiles. (you give the card over, say how much you want and they swipe it then the credit goes straight to your phone)

They attached a fake card reader to a ATM machine in a spar in London, went back a few hours later, removed it and then took it back to the lab. They got one of the top up cards, attached it to a PC via a card reader and reprogrammed it with one of the numbers scanned from the dummy reader.

They then went to a ATM and drew out £500 with it! Seriously! It was called the sting or something. They used to show you loads of scams and how the con artists do it so you would know how to aviod them.

Terry · 26-01-2008 04:08PM

gurramok wrote: »

Irish people ram raiding ATM's with JCB's don't count as we are specifically talking about skimming.

Heh.
I know a guy who did that. He's in jail now.
Heroin addiction + owning a JCB = tomfoolery.

gurramok · 26-01-2008 04:08PM

ztoical wrote: »

I was trying to keep this on topic with the OP - with the telling of that story it shouldn't matter what race the children are - same goes for all the skimming and what not going on with. My issue isn't wither or not people are scamming ATM's they are but the fact that alot of people on this thread started sharing stories of "i saw this roma do this" or "i heard this story about a roma.." Monkyfudge posted a good list of what you should be doing at ATMs to protect yourself from fraud - people should go and read that rather then freaking out about hoards of roma children coming to rob them.

And do I call the ipso lairs? I guess I do as I think its very brave/foolish to stand up and say never about anything.

Well, if alot of people are reporting stories especially with backup from courts/gardai/newspaper reporting of such reports, then its an issue wth certain Roma children involved in such activity.
Scamming(which i cannot verify myself but go by the courts and gardai events) and aggressive begging by them(i have seen this) are a day-to-day issue with the Roma community, just have a walk around the city centre and you'll see them.

I'd rather believe IPSO than yourself on the skimming reports, hope i'm proved wrong when Irish gangs start skimming which hasn't happened yet that we know of.

ireland.com wrote:

Ipso and the Garda recently issued a Christmas warning that organised criminal gangs, mainly from eastern Europe, have already stolen more than €3.5 million this year by skimming.

To sum up as someone said, if your at an ATM, you have to be careful and have common sense no matter what nationality of a person is around you.

L1011 · 26-01-2008 04:12PM

Myth wrote: »

Although this doesn't add any validity to the below story, Ulster Bank ATMs get you to put in your card and take it out at the start, so there is no delay when you're getting money back.

That last one I used didn't, but it was also so old it had a green and black screen, was made by AT&T and I suspect was steam powered...

Are you thinking of their little Easycash ATMs? All the brands of those - Ulster, BOI, AIB - make you do the card swipe but its for mag stripe cards only - all of them have to hold on to the chip cards because being able to read the info off them would defeat the entire purpose of the chip (the smartcard does the actual encoding work itself during the transaction).

gurramok · 26-01-2008 04:13PM

Terry wrote: »

Heh.
I know a guy who did that. He's in jail now.
Heroin addiction + owning a JCB = tomfoolery.

Hehe, Irish gangs tend to do the up front physical violent approach on ATM's rather than the cunning and sly approach of the foreign gangs(clarification for ztoical, so far they are 'foreign'

)

DJ_Spider · 26-01-2008 04:23PM

Just remembered the name of that show! It was called The Real Hustle. Here are some vids to show how easy it is to skim ATM machines!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFA3FlcOo8 Fake ATM Card Reader
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtOJGd0Y7s4 Fake machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G45jiJuDYM Card Switch

The last one could easily be done in Dublin as there are lots of 'people' begging on crutches.

Charlie · 26-01-2008 04:43PM

All this 'what happened to card ehh' is pissin me off.

There are plenty of ATMs that have you put in your bank card and then ask you to remove it straight away. Then you enter your pin, select cash withdraw, and then the amount. Bingo! That's what happened to the card. The person in the OPs story would probably have removed the card before she put in her pin, making the scam/robbery more than possible.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with those that this is probably not an exclusive roma/non-national scam, but it irks me that people automatically think that such a scam is not possible because Irish people are not mentioned as being the culprits. PC gone mad.

Rob_l · 26-01-2008 05:10PM

the biggest ATM scam is that the bastarding machines let me take out cash while drunk there should be some way of testing if im drunk if i am do not let me take out daily limit at 12:30 at night why would I want my daily limit im only going to spend it all on expensive booze and then Im only going to drink that booze.

Sort this problem out now banks or Im hiding my money under my mattress!

Cionnfhaolaidh · 26-01-2008 07:09PM

What happens if you press cancel before you remove your card from the slot? Does it take the money back? Could be handy if you notice some scobes nearby

Toots · 26-01-2008 07:19PM

Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »

What happens if you press cancel before you remove your card from the slot? Does it take the money back? Could be handy if you notice some scobes nearby

I don't think it does, AFAIK. I heard another version of this scam, but what happened was the little kid came up and distracted you, and pressed the €200 (or some other large amount) button, then buggered off, then when you've taken the card out and the transaction has gone through, you end up with more money that you needed and little kid has got some bigger friends waiting nearby to pickpocket you as you're heading away. Not sure how much truth is in this tho.

Have heard of machines that give your money out and then give the card, also there's those little ones in the shops that make you insert and remove your card before doing the transaction. :rolleyes:

monkeyfudge · 26-01-2008 07:22PM

charlie mchugh wrote: »

All this 'what happened to card ehh' is pissin me off.

There are plenty of ATMs that have you put in your bank card and then ask you to remove it straight away. Then you enter your pin, select cash withdraw, and then the amount. Bingo! That's what happened to the card. The person in the OPs story would probably have removed the card before she put in her pin, making the scam/robbery more than possible.

I've only ever encounter those type of ATMs inside shops myself.

In this case the OP has described exact location of an AIB Banklink machine which does require the card to be removed, it then takes some time to count out the money before dispensing it. A quantity of money this large would have taken longer to count out before being dispensed too.

26-01-2008 07:22PM

Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »

What happens if you press cancel before you remove your card from the slot? Does it take the money back? Could be handy if you notice some scobes nearby

yeah it does
the machine i was at the other week was being really slow
and when it was going "processing request" or "cash being counted" or whatever, it was just frozen for *ages* and I freaked out it would swallow my card
so I pressed cancel, the money slot opened then closed, and i got a receipt saying "your account has not been debited"

well maybe it was because the machine was so slow, but yeah try it sometime eh

monkeyfudge · 26-01-2008 07:26PM

Oh.. and something else just occurred to me.

€400 isn't one of the default cash withdrawal options, is it? You'd have to press the 'Other Amount' button and then key in 400. There would had have to be one hell of a distraction, to make this scam come off.

Terry · 26-01-2008 07:47PM

Regarding the distraction and the card.
Kid 1 causes distraction.
Kid 2 keys in amount and presses enter.
Card is then ejected.
Harassed person instinctively removes card and then the cash comes out. In some situations, this only requires pressing one button.

As monkeyfudge has already pointed out, 400 is not a default amount. Unless the person had already pressed that button, or kid 2 is extremely quick, then the most dispensed (from my experience) is 200.

billy the squid · 26-01-2008 07:58PM

briantwin wrote: »

Its not a friend of a friend. Its an aquaintance of mine. She works with my brother. As for taking the bank card. Whats the point if you dont know the PIN? Of course the card came out before the money I didn't say anything contradictory to that. If you think its a bull**** story ,fair enough. It would be a real shame if something like this were to happen to such a street savvy and open minded person as yourself.

You have to take the card out before the money comes out. for a thief to do what you claim they would have to hit the 400 euro button (which I find hard to believe anyway as any machine I have used will only let you take out 300 euro, and then take the card out followed by taking the money away.

billy the squid · 26-01-2008 08:05PM

Originally Posted by Myth View Post
Although this doesn't add any validity to the below story, Ulster Bank ATMs get you to put in your card and take it out at the start, so there is no delay when you're getting money back.

This happens at atms in shops. not on the ulster bank machines on the street.

If you are using an ATM in a shop with a credit card you are required to leave the card in the machine throughout your transaction, and remove it before you get your money.

New scam for gettin ripped off at ATM's

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