Do you believe you have a "soul"?

Archeron · 08-01-2008 2:47pm #1

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?
Be that whatever you may consider it to be, a religious thing, a spiritual thing, or even just a little spark of intelligence or humour, do you feel that there is actually more to you than the flesh and bones of your body?

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too

.

Although I do enjoy reading about religions and their teachings, I dont have any particular firm belief as to what will happen to this "soul" when I leave this world and the flesh and bones cease to function. I do however hope that the world I inhabit now is not the last place I will see, and that after this life, I will exist in some other way, and maybe some other place. I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

Mods, I put this thread here, as its not really related to any specific religious or spiritual forum, I just wonder if the concept of a "soul" is an important part of what makes us human. I hope thats okay.

t-ha · 08-01-2008 3:00pm

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?

No.

Archeron wrote: »

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too .

I wouldn't say it's conceited as such, most people wish to be seperated somewhat from being 'just another rubber plant on the shelf of life' so I'd say it's a fairly normal aspect of the human condition. I do think that it's wishful, more than objective, thinking.

Archeron wrote: »

I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

You should google brain injuries and the profound effects that they can have on a person, not just in terms of their mental capabilities, but also their base personalities - ultimately who they are. Also some mental illnesses and the results of their treatments would lead me to believe that there is no aspect of a person that remains 'indestructably' them. Everything about someone can be messed with by tampering with the brain either physically, chemically or come other means.

Archeron wrote: »

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

No, I've got my own opinions which, besides posting on this thread I guess, I tend to keep to myself mainly & I let others have theirs.

DadaKopf · 08-01-2008 4:06pm

No.

Wacker · 08-01-2008 6:04pm

I don't believe in a soul. It is certainly a nice idea, but I think it is another way of trying to deal with the scary notion of mortality.
Also, I think it is very hard to reconcile a notion of a soul (at least in terms of the conventional understanding, which is largely to do with differentiating humans from animals) with a belief in evolution. If we all evolved from less complex animals, then when does the sould come into the equation? Doesn't seem workable to me.

Dave! · 08-01-2008 9:33pm

I don't believe in a soul.

I don't know what it is that makes me 'me', but maybe we'll figure that out some time in the future. I'm content not currently knowing everything!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 08-01-2008 9:35pm

just to be different, no.

nacho libre · 09-01-2008 3:59pm

"do all dogs go to heaven"?

t-ha · 11-01-2008 4:10pm

nacho libre wrote: »

"do all dogs go to heaven"?

No, they go to a big farm in Cork.

normar · 20-01-2008 1:48am

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?

No I do not believe we have a soul.

We have intellegence yes.

I believe we should use that intellegence, and not get carried away.

Terrlock · 20-01-2008 1:51am

Just to be different form what seems to be the norm

Yes I believe in a soul.

I believe that we are made up of mind, soul and body.

aidan24326 · 20-01-2008 3:38pm

Do you believe you have a "soul"?

No.

I see no reason to believe we're anything more than biological machines, and that our consciousness is fully explainable as brain physiology ,even if all the details aren't fully understoof yet.

Sandwich · 20-01-2008 3:44pm

No.

Seems to be the predominant answer. Try a poll and see how it really breaks out.

We are just bioligical organsims carrying out a process. But ones complicated enough to consider such questions, but not complicated enough to be able to resist the alure of the idea of a soul to explain that which we are incapable of understanding.

robert2000 · 20-01-2008 3:46pm

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Sandwich · 20-01-2008 8:55pm

robert2000 wrote: »

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Why so?

You will not find out whether you have a soul or not (whatever a soul is). So it makes no difference to your life whether you have one or not. So why hope one way or the other?

Why is not having a soul too awful to think about?

I feel the concept of a soul is just a feftover from the blind alley of assorted religions that flourished in a world of ignorance and domination.

dsmythy · 20-01-2008 9:29pm

Well there is that theory i heard once about brain waves or something along those lines that might continue to exist somehow outside of what science has so far discovered. Science could yet make inroads into the question your answering.

I'll also be going against the majority and saying yes to something one might describe as a soul existing. Probably not what religion is telling you it is though.

I don't buy into religion, but if you were to go down that route then your answer for when souls came into being considering our evolutionary path could be that at some point (probably the time we started burial rituals) the souls from heaven or wherever began to occupy physical bodies. Be that in space or a different dimension or whatever.

One outrageous thing to end on. Maybe there is something more. This is all a big virtual reality game and we are a hypercomputer's creation that gives us the illusion of being alive. Maybe

normar · 20-01-2008 9:57pm

robert2000 wrote: »

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Robert, just what is this "awful alternative" you are so afraid of.

It might help to discuss it here with others who may be able to offer another viewpoint.

For example there is no emperical evidence whatever and there never has been any evidence to even suggest that such a thing as a soul exists.

It is a common belief but thats all it is a belief. Even if millions of people believe in a soul it still will not be true that one exists.

Its basis is religious indoctrination into us when we were children with no ability to defend ourselves intellectually.

The soul is used by those who believe in the "Meek and Mild Jesus" (who brought to us the concept of everlasting and agonising burning in "hell" as revenge for sinning-- New Testament) as the object by which this everlasting burning and agony for ever and ever of sinners can be achieved. No rational human would even consider treating a plagued rat in that awful fashion.

Anyway be of good cheer because not once in all human history has one been found. And btw neither has hell.

..

robert2000 · 21-01-2008 12:18am

The thing i can't get my head around is, if there is no soul and we are just highly evolved animals, then we just stop at death cease to be :eek: this keeps me awake some nights. I understand we will never know the answer and we should live our lives and enjoy it while we can but how can we with an invisible countdown timer over or heads, even if religion heaven and hell are just ideas created to keep us in line or stop us going mad, i envy anyone who has faith in something anything.

takola · 21-01-2008 12:47am

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?
Be that whatever you may consider it to be, a religious thing, a spiritual thing, or even just a little spark of intelligence or humour, do you feel that there is actually more to you than the flesh and bones of your body?

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too .

Although I do enjoy reading about religions and their teachings, I dont have any particular firm belief as to what will happen to this "soul" when I leave this world and the flesh and bones cease to function. I do however hope that the world I inhabit now is not the last place I will see, and that after this life, I will exist in some other way, and maybe some other place. I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

Mods, I put this thread here, as its not really related to any specific religious or spiritual forum, I just wonder if the concept of a "soul" is an important part of what makes us human. I hope thats okay.

I'm pretty much believe the exact same as you Archeron.

I'm still questioning religion and I don't follow any in particular. Things I'm clear on is yes I believe there's a god, yes I have a soul, I don't believe in Satan, there is no heaven or hell. I'm young yet and there's plenty that I hope to find as I get older but I'm certain on those points for right now. I suppose it could change as I get older and study more, find more if that makes sense.

I can completely see why someone would want to believe in something to avoid the alternative. I don't like the alternative. If there's nothing at the end of life what's the point in doing anything with it? why bother at all?

I can honestly say I've never questioned whether or not there's a God. It's always been absolutely crystal clear to me that yes there is one. And most of my friends don't believe in one and we laugh at each other all the time about it. If they ask how I know the only thing I've ever been able to say is I feel it. Which is incredibly embarrassing being honest but there ya go! It's the same with a soul. I've never questioned it. I've always known it's there.

Not everyone feels it. Fair enough. But I do.

AngryHippie · 21-01-2008 1:18am

I propose that there is. The soul is the little bit of your mind that makes you decide stuff that is either too complex or abstract to rationalize. It lives somewhere between what we call gut feeling and je ne ce qois. Our emotional brain, while rational, does things from time to time that are very hard to decipher even in psychoanalytical or psychological terms. For me, its called the soul. Its the ever shrinking shadow of understanding within the human mind. On the brain injuries mentioned above, have a look at mapping the mind by Rita Carter, It has some very good examples of how brain injuries have changed peoples lives, and behaviour, but not there preferences or reactions.
I do believe that this soul is not eternal, but it is undeniably yours, and individually so.

Dades · 21-01-2008 11:37am

AngryHippie wrote: »

I do believe that this soul is not eternal, but it is undeniably yours, and individually so.

I like the way you think, although I think what your actually referring to is your character.

Eternal soul? I wish it were so, but don't believe it.

nmk · 21-01-2008 12:51pm

I don't believe in a soul there to be rewarded or tormented forever as described by normar. On some level, however, it makes sense to me that some people take something from the cosmos when we come into being, not quite reincarnation but some connection with the past, whether through genes or something more elusive.

toiletduck · 22-01-2008 12:29pm

I don't believe in a "soul" or anything that makes us "us" surviving death. I'm open to correction though, sure we'll all find out one way or another!

Medina · 23-01-2008 2:01pm

Hi all,
My answer is yes I believe we have souls.

I have some questions for the people who said they don't believe we have souls. Just to say though I don't intend to argue/attack your beliefs, I just want to explore what you believe ok.

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

Also, a little more complex maybe ,but for everyone, but what do you think of the fact we all have various beliefs on this matter? i.e. Can we all be right? Can some be right and some be wrong? Like some believe in a soul that's different to what religion says it is, some believe in no soul, some believe in a soul as described by religion etc etc.

I respect that people have a right to choose what they believe and that we have different beliefs, but I do believe myself that there can be only one right answer. Either we do or we don't have souls.

Dades · 23-01-2008 2:30pm

Medina wrote: »

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

Anything is possible. That's why I would say I don't believe I have a soul, rather than I know I don't have a soul.

Besides you can't discount something altogether that is completely invisible and intangible to anybody who is alive, annoying as that may be.

Medina · 23-01-2008 4:18pm

Dades wrote: »

Anything is possible. That's why I would say I don't believe I have a soul, rather than I know I don't have a soul.

Besides you can't discount something altogether that is completely invisible and intangible to anybody who is alive, annoying as that may be.

If you think there is a possibility of it , then have you/would you consider the possible consequences for your soul? I don't mean consequences of your actions, I just mean what you think might happen to it?

listermint · 23-01-2008 4:21pm

Of course i believe we have a soul, how else do the automatic doors open??:)

AckwelFoley · 23-01-2008 4:26pm

Soul like Ray Charles.. yes.

Soul like a spare part from Jesus.. NO

aidan24326 · 23-01-2008 5:23pm

Medina wrote: »

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

'Soul' itself is a very vague and undefined term though. Depends what you mean. I would take it to mean our conscious mind. The uniqueness that makes you 'you' and me 'me'. For that to survive your death, there must necessarily be mind/matter duality. Considering that that question has not been conclusively answered the possibility of a soul (and by extension an afterlife) is still open. However if our mind or that essence you may call a soul is wholly explainable by brain physiology, then to me that rules out any slim possibility for an afterlife, and would confirm that we are, like it or not, just clever machines. I think it highly likely that that's exactly what we are, but wouldn't rule out other possibilities completely given our lack of a complete understanding.

Also, a little more complex maybe ,but for everyone, but what do you think of the fact we all have various beliefs on this matter? i.e. Can we all be right? Can some be right and some be wrong? Like some believe in a soul that's different to what religion says it is, some believe in no soul, some believe in a soul as described by religion etc etc.

I respect that people have a right to choose what they believe and that we have different beliefs, but I do believe myself that there can be only one right answer. Either we do or we don't have souls.

I agree with you that we can't all be right. The differing beliefs/opinions are not mutually exclusive. Either we possess an ethereal soul or we don't. Personally I don't think we do. Those like yourself who belive in a mystical soul are doing so based on a personal subjective feeling, it is not based in the reality of anything we know.

dsmythy · 24-01-2008 12:09am

snyper wrote: »

Soul like Ray Charles.. yes.

Soul like a spare part from Jesus.. NO

Leaving out religion, it still a no?

Medina · 24-01-2008 12:13am

aidan24326 wrote: »

we are, like it or not, just clever machines. I think it highly likely that that's exactly what we are, but wouldn't rule out other possibilities completely given our lack of a complete understanding.

Three things:
1. Can a clever machine make itself? Can something as complex as a human being create itself or be a product of nature? Can a software application make itself and is there not a developer behind it? While you cannot see the developer you know one must exist for such a logical ordered thing to exist. It didn't create itself. Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

3. If you're not ruling out other possibilities then what do you think might possibly happen to your soul (whatever anyone construes that to be) after you die?

aidan24326 · 24-01-2008 4:31am

Medina wrote: »

Three things:
1. Can a clever machine make itself? Can something as complex as a human being create itself or be a product of nature?

Well yes, we do appear to be a product of nature. Once you strip away the mystical veneer, there is no reason why we couldn't be. The biological processes that have shaped us are becoming increasingly understood, and surprising as it may be they do not necessarily require a supernatural designer. And at a future time, if and when intelligent artificial life becomes a reality, those types of clever machine may be able to replicate themselves much more quickly and efficiently than we do.

Can a software application make itself and is there not a developer behind it? While you cannot see the developer you know one must exist for such a logical ordered thing to exist. It didn't create itself. Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

Evolution by natural selection and has stacks of evidence to support it. Something as extraordinarily complex as a human body is likely to only come about by exactly that type of slow evolutionary process. That's the beauty of it, it shows how complexity can arise in gradual steps given the right initial conditions, and they only had to exist once.

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

Our brains may have the same components but it's how they're put together that matters in making us different, the pattern of arrangement rather than the actual building blocks. There is an estimated 200 trillion connections in the brain, needless to say they're not all going to be the same for everyone.

What's more, the brain is now considered (based on modern research) to be dynamic, in other words new connections and networks are being created all the time, so the arrangement of neurons in your brain and mine is based on a combination of our initial DNA code, our early experiences, environment, learning etc et.c In other words we started out different and just got increasingly different along the way!

Not forgetting there are of course certain fundamental similiarities in all of us too.

3. If you're not ruling out other possibilities then what do you think might possibly happen to your soul (whatever anyone construes that to be) after you die?

I don't believe there is any such thing as a soul in the sense that religious believers think of it. If we're to call the conscious mind a 'soul', then I believe that my consciousness, that essence which makes me 'me', will cease to exist when I die. Heart packs in, brain and nervous system soon die, aidan24326 is no more. We simply have no evidence for anything else.

Do you believe you have a "soul"?

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