Do you believe you have a "soul"?

Archeron

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?
Be that whatever you may consider it to be, a religious thing, a spiritual thing, or even just a little spark of intelligence or humour, do you feel that there is actually more to you than the flesh and bones of your body?

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too .

Although I do enjoy reading about religions and their teachings, I dont have any particular firm belief as to what will happen to this "soul" when I leave this world and the flesh and bones cease to function. I do however hope that the world I inhabit now is not the last place I will see, and that after this life, I will exist in some other way, and maybe some other place. I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

Mods, I put this thread here, as its not really related to any specific religious or spiritual forum, I just wonder if the concept of a "soul" is an important part of what makes us human. I hope thats okay.

t-ha

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?

No.

Archeron wrote: »

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too .

I wouldn't say it's conceited as such, most people wish to be seperated somewhat from being 'just another rubber plant on the shelf of life' so I'd say it's a fairly normal aspect of the human condition. I do think that it's wishful, more than objective, thinking.

Archeron wrote: »

I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

You should google brain injuries and the profound effects that they can have on a person, not just in terms of their mental capabilities, but also their base personalities - ultimately who they are. Also some mental illnesses and the results of their treatments would lead me to believe that there is no aspect of a person that remains 'indestructably' them. Everything about someone can be messed with by tampering with the brain either physically, chemically or come other means.

Archeron wrote: »

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

No, I've got my own opinions which, besides posting on this thread I guess, I tend to keep to myself mainly & I let others have theirs.

DadaKopf

No.

Wacker

I don't believe in a soul. It is certainly a nice idea, but I think it is another way of trying to deal with the scary notion of mortality.
Also, I think it is very hard to reconcile a notion of a soul (at least in terms of the conventional understanding, which is largely to do with differentiating humans from animals) with a belief in evolution. If we all evolved from less complex animals, then when does the sould come into the equation? Doesn't seem workable to me.

Dave!

I don't believe in a soul.

I don't know what it is that makes me 'me', but maybe we'll figure that out some time in the future. I'm content not currently knowing everything!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

just to be different, no.

nacho libre

"do all dogs go to heaven"?

t-ha

nacho libre wrote: »

"do all dogs go to heaven"?

No, they go to a big farm in Cork.

normar

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?

No I do not believe we have a soul.

We have intellegence yes.

I believe we should use that intellegence, and not get carried away.

Terrlock

Just to be different form what seems to be the norm

Yes I believe in a soul.

I believe that we are made up of mind, soul and body.

aidan24326

Do you believe you have a "soul"?

No.

I see no reason to believe we're anything more than biological machines, and that our consciousness is fully explainable as brain physiology ,even if all the details aren't fully understoof yet.

Sandwich

No.

Seems to be the predominant answer. Try a poll and see how it really breaks out.


We are just bioligical organsims carrying out a process. But ones complicated enough to consider such questions, but not complicated enough to be able to resist the alure of the idea of a soul to explain that which we are incapable of understanding.

robert2000

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Sandwich

robert2000 wrote: »

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Why so?

You will not find out whether you have a soul or not (whatever a soul is). So it makes no difference to your life whether you have one or not. So why hope one way or the other?

Why is not having a soul too awful to think about?

I feel the concept of a soul is just a feftover from the blind alley of assorted religions that flourished in a world of ignorance and domination.

dsmythy

Well there is that theory i heard once about brain waves or something along those lines that might continue to exist somehow outside of what science has so far discovered. Science could yet make inroads into the question your answering.

I'll also be going against the majority and saying yes to something one might describe as a soul existing. Probably not what religion is telling you it is though.

I don't buy into religion, but if you were to go down that route then your answer for when souls came into being considering our evolutionary path could be that at some point (probably the time we started burial rituals) the souls from heaven or wherever began to occupy physical bodies. Be that in space or a different dimension or whatever.

One outrageous thing to end on. Maybe there is something more. This is all a big virtual reality game and we are a hypercomputer's creation that gives us the illusion of being alive. Maybe

normar

robert2000 wrote: »

i really hope we do have a soul, just because the alternative is to awful to think about.

Robert, just what is this "awful alternative" you are so afraid of.

It might help to discuss it here with others who may be able to offer another viewpoint.

For example there is no emperical evidence whatever and there never has been any evidence to even suggest that such a thing as a soul exists.

It is a common belief but thats all it is a belief. Even if millions of people believe in a soul it still will not be true that one exists.

Its basis is religious indoctrination into us when we were children with no ability to defend ourselves intellectually.

The soul is used by those who believe in the "Meek and Mild Jesus" (who brought to us the concept of everlasting and agonising burning in "hell" as revenge for sinning-- New Testament) as the object by which this everlasting burning and agony for ever and ever of sinners can be achieved. No rational human would even consider treating a plagued rat in that awful fashion.

Anyway be of good cheer because not once in all human history has one been found. And btw neither has hell.


..

robert2000

The thing i can't get my head around is, if there is no soul and we are just highly evolved animals, then we just stop at death cease to be :eek: this keeps me awake some nights. I understand we will never know the answer and we should live our lives and enjoy it while we can but how can we with an invisible countdown timer over or heads, even if religion heaven and hell are just ideas created to keep us in line or stop us going mad, i envy anyone who has faith in something anything.

takola

Archeron wrote: »

As per the thread title, do you believe that you have a soul?
Be that whatever you may consider it to be, a religious thing, a spiritual thing, or even just a little spark of intelligence or humour, do you feel that there is actually more to you than the flesh and bones of your body?

Possibly naively, I do personally believe that there is more to me than my physical presence. I have no idea as to what that actually constitutes, but at a wild guess, I would say that its my spirit which incorporates the aspect of my mind that makes me "me" as opposed to just another rubber plant on the shelf of life. Thats probably quite conceited too .

Although I do enjoy reading about religions and their teachings, I dont have any particular firm belief as to what will happen to this "soul" when I leave this world and the flesh and bones cease to function. I do however hope that the world I inhabit now is not the last place I will see, and that after this life, I will exist in some other way, and maybe some other place. I suppose to put an image to what I see the "soul" as, probably something minutely small that carries the essence of what I am and what makes me (in my limited and narrowminded opinion)unique.

So do you believe you have a soul, and if so, what do you think it is? If you dont believe, do you scoff at those who do?

Mods, I put this thread here, as its not really related to any specific religious or spiritual forum, I just wonder if the concept of a "soul" is an important part of what makes us human. I hope thats okay.

I'm pretty much believe the exact same as you Archeron.

I'm still questioning religion and I don't follow any in particular. Things I'm clear on is yes I believe there's a god, yes I have a soul, I don't believe in Satan, there is no heaven or hell. I'm young yet and there's plenty that I hope to find as I get older but I'm certain on those points for right now. I suppose it could change as I get older and study more, find more if that makes sense.

I can completely see why someone would want to believe in something to avoid the alternative. I don't like the alternative. If there's nothing at the end of life what's the point in doing anything with it? why bother at all?

I can honestly say I've never questioned whether or not there's a God. It's always been absolutely crystal clear to me that yes there is one. And most of my friends don't believe in one and we laugh at each other all the time about it. If they ask how I know the only thing I've ever been able to say is I feel it. Which is incredibly embarrassing being honest but there ya go! It's the same with a soul. I've never questioned it. I've always known it's there.

Not everyone feels it. Fair enough. But I do.

AngryHippie

I propose that there is. The soul is the little bit of your mind that makes you decide stuff that is either too complex or abstract to rationalize. It lives somewhere between what we call gut feeling and je ne ce qois. Our emotional brain, while rational, does things from time to time that are very hard to decipher even in psychoanalytical or psychological terms. For me, its called the soul. Its the ever shrinking shadow of understanding within the human mind. On the brain injuries mentioned above, have a look at mapping the mind by Rita Carter, It has some very good examples of how brain injuries have changed peoples lives, and behaviour, but not there preferences or reactions.
I do believe that this soul is not eternal, but it is undeniably yours, and individually so.

Dades

AngryHippie wrote: »

I do believe that this soul is not eternal, but it is undeniably yours, and individually so.

I like the way you think, although I think what your actually referring to is your character.

Eternal soul? I wish it were so, but don't believe it.

nmk

I don't believe in a soul there to be rewarded or tormented forever as described by normar. On some level, however, it makes sense to me that some people take something from the cosmos when we come into being, not quite reincarnation but some connection with the past, whether through genes or something more elusive.

toiletduck

I don't believe in a "soul" or anything that makes us "us" surviving death. I'm open to correction though, sure we'll all find out one way or another!

Medina

Hi all,
My answer is yes I believe we have souls.

I have some questions for the people who said they don't believe we have souls. Just to say though I don't intend to argue/attack your beliefs, I just want to explore what you believe ok.

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

Also, a little more complex maybe ,but for everyone, but what do you think of the fact we all have various beliefs on this matter? i.e. Can we all be right? Can some be right and some be wrong? Like some believe in a soul that's different to what religion says it is, some believe in no soul, some believe in a soul as described by religion etc etc.

I respect that people have a right to choose what they believe and that we have different beliefs, but I do believe myself that there can be only one right answer. Either we do or we don't have souls.

Dades

Medina wrote: »

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

Anything is possible. That's why I would say I don't believe I have a soul, rather than I know I don't have a soul.

Besides you can't discount something altogether that is completely invisible and intangible to anybody who is alive, annoying as that may be.

Medina

Dades wrote: »

Anything is possible. That's why I would say I don't believe I have a soul, rather than I know I don't have a soul.

Besides you can't discount something altogether that is completely invisible and intangible to anybody who is alive, annoying as that may be.

If you think there is a possibility of it , then have you/would you consider the possible consequences for your soul? I don't mean consequences of your actions, I just mean what you think might happen to it?

listermint

Of course i believe we have a soul, how else do the automatic doors open??:)

AckwelFoley

Soul like Ray Charles.. yes.

Soul like a spare part from Jesus.. NO

aidan24326

Medina wrote: »

Do any of you believe that there is a possibility you do have a soul and after you die you will find out (if there is not just nothing after death) ? i.e. you believe you don't have a soul but there is a possibility you do.

'Soul' itself is a very vague and undefined term though. Depends what you mean. I would take it to mean our conscious mind. The uniqueness that makes you 'you' and me 'me'. For that to survive your death, there must necessarily be mind/matter duality. Considering that that question has not been conclusively answered the possibility of a soul (and by extension an afterlife) is still open. However if our mind or that essence you may call a soul is wholly explainable by brain physiology, then to me that rules out any slim possibility for an afterlife, and would confirm that we are, like it or not, just clever machines. I think it highly likely that that's exactly what we are, but wouldn't rule out other possibilities completely given our lack of a complete understanding.

Also, a little more complex maybe ,but for everyone, but what do you think of the fact we all have various beliefs on this matter? i.e. Can we all be right? Can some be right and some be wrong? Like some believe in a soul that's different to what religion says it is, some believe in no soul, some believe in a soul as described by religion etc etc.

I respect that people have a right to choose what they believe and that we have different beliefs, but I do believe myself that there can be only one right answer. Either we do or we don't have souls.

I agree with you that we can't all be right. The differing beliefs/opinions are not mutually exclusive. Either we possess an ethereal soul or we don't. Personally I don't think we do. Those like yourself who belive in a mystical soul are doing so based on a personal subjective feeling, it is not based in the reality of anything we know.

dsmythy

snyper wrote: »

Soul like Ray Charles.. yes.

Soul like a spare part from Jesus.. NO

Leaving out religion, it still a no?

Medina

aidan24326 wrote: »

we are, like it or not, just clever machines. I think it highly likely that that's exactly what we are, but wouldn't rule out other possibilities completely given our lack of a complete understanding.

Three things:
1. Can a clever machine make itself? Can something as complex as a human being create itself or be a product of nature? Can a software application make itself and is there not a developer behind it? While you cannot see the developer you know one must exist for such a logical ordered thing to exist. It didn't create itself. Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

3. If you're not ruling out other possibilities then what do you think might possibly happen to your soul (whatever anyone construes that to be) after you die?

aidan24326

Medina wrote: »

Three things:
1. Can a clever machine make itself? Can something as complex as a human being create itself or be a product of nature?

Well yes, we do appear to be a product of nature. Once you strip away the mystical veneer, there is no reason why we couldn't be. The biological processes that have shaped us are becoming increasingly understood, and surprising as it may be they do not necessarily require a supernatural designer. And at a future time, if and when intelligent artificial life becomes a reality, those types of clever machine may be able to replicate themselves much more quickly and efficiently than we do.

Can a software application make itself and is there not a developer behind it? While you cannot see the developer you know one must exist for such a logical ordered thing to exist. It didn't create itself. Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

Evolution by natural selection and has stacks of evidence to support it. Something as extraordinarily complex as a human body is likely to only come about by exactly that type of slow evolutionary process. That's the beauty of it, it shows how complexity can arise in gradual steps given the right initial conditions, and they only had to exist once.

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

Our brains may have the same components but it's how they're put together that matters in making us different, the pattern of arrangement rather than the actual building blocks. There is an estimated 200 trillion connections in the brain, needless to say they're not all going to be the same for everyone.

What's more, the brain is now considered (based on modern research) to be dynamic, in other words new connections and networks are being created all the time, so the arrangement of neurons in your brain and mine is based on a combination of our initial DNA code, our early experiences, environment, learning etc et.c In other words we started out different and just got increasingly different along the way!

Not forgetting there are of course certain fundamental similiarities in all of us too.

3. If you're not ruling out other possibilities then what do you think might possibly happen to your soul (whatever anyone construes that to be) after you die?

I don't believe there is any such thing as a soul in the sense that religious believers think of it. If we're to call the conscious mind a 'soul', then I believe that my consciousness, that essence which makes me 'me', will cease to exist when I die. Heart packs in, brain and nervous system soon die, aidan24326 is no more. We simply have no evidence for anything else.

neuro-praxis

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C. S. Lewis

Dades

Medina wrote: »

Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

Human beings (and all other life) evolved, Ferraris are created by design. With all due respect, if you can't see the difference, it is clear you do not understand what evolution entails.

Medina wrote: »

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

Our brains are not the same. Try telling a neurologist that I dare you!

Medina wrote: »

If you're not ruling out other possibilities then what do you think might possibly happen to your soul (whatever anyone construes that to be) after you die?

That's like speculating what colour God is. Pointless. The only reason to not discount the existence of a soul is that is completely impossible to disprove. You can't say "if you did believe in it - what would it do?"

Medina

Medina wrote: »

Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

We know cars have designers because we have previous experience of people making cars and we know for a fact people make cars. it has nothing to do with how "complex and beautiful" said car is.

"one thing is complex and beautiful, already know it has a designer -> all complex things have designers" is not a valid extension.

Archeron

Medina wrote: »

I respect that people have a right to choose what they believe and that we have different beliefs, but I do believe myself that there can be only one right answer. Either we do or we don't have souls.

I would disagree somewhat with that statement. I cant fully (or even begin to) describe what my soul may be, because I have no idea as to what form it could take; in fairness other posters above have put it better than I could.

I believe it is possible that the soul could continue in some other spectrum or dimension as yet undiscovered and possibly never to be discovered, by man, to continue on whatever journey its on. So while I would keep my mind open to the fact that it could exist after death in some manner other than what we view as "reality", others may not agree that existing outside of the only physical reality we really know is actually existence at all.

If that soul may be there and continue wherever, whenever, and whatever it does after death, that would then make me right.
But those who don't believe in a soul as a concept, or part of the fabric of the universe we inhabit are right also, because in (their) reality; which is the only one they may recognize, it doesn't exist. So there could actually be more than one right answer.
So while some people accept other realities, but not the soul, this reality only with and without the soul, and any combination therein, depending on your perspective, they could all be right.

CodeMonkey

Medina wrote: »

2.As regards the brain being the source of uniqueness, making you 'you' and me 'me', since we all have brains with the same components why is there such difference then between you and me? It doesn't explain why we are all different?

Like what others have said, same building blocks but different neuron connections caused by different experiences. Look at feral children like Genie for example. http://surfbreak.blogspot.com/2006/04/feral-children-critical-period.html

Locked in a room with no stimulation or experiences until she was 13, she basically behaves like a toddler when found. Our uniqueness are due to our experiences.

Dogs and other animals also have unique personalities. Do you think they have souls?

normar

Medina wrote: »

Three things:
1. ......Can something as complex as a human being create itself or be a product of nature? Something as sophisticated and complex and beautiful as a Ferrari you know didn't come without a designer , yet you think complex creatures such as humans do?

All living creatures on this planet have come about through the process of Evolution by natural selection. This is a scientific fact and can be proved over and over again.
All it took was a chance event for a simple replicating molecule to happen and the process took off.

What you are saying above is called the argument from personal incredulity. It goes along the lines that because you can't accept the evidence and facts of evolution, (the incremental development of living creatures over billions of years by evolution) you must assume someone or some thing makes each individual living thing.
That assumption for you has it logical conclusion in a supernatural deity.

How is it then that you have difficulties accepting the proven evidence of evolution as the reason for living creatures.
You state that a complex machine like a Farrari must have had a designer.
Yet you can accept or believe that an all powerful, all knowing, made everything in the whole Universe deity has existed for all time. What process made this deity? Even he/she/it must have had a beginning. After all this deity is more complex than a Farrari and by your logic since the Farrari needed a designer this deity must have been designed too. Who designed the designer and it's designer......

The argument from personal incredulity does not nullify the evidence and facts of evolution as the basis of all living creatures.

You of course must believe what you wish to believe.
I have a tendency to base my beliefs on reason and science for at least some answer that stands up to questioning from my critical faculties.

There has never been any evidence for a soul any more than there has been for the existence of fairies at the bottom of gardens or of pots of gold at the end of rainbows.

neuro-praxis

normar wrote: »

All it took was a chance event for a simple replicating molecule to happen and the process took off.

Bloody hell, it is well documented that 50% of the world's leading evolutionists believe in a creator God, so stop trying to skew this conversation about a soul into something that denies that evolution and theism can work together. They always have and always will. Dawkins is a remarkably narrow minded man.

P.S. Where did the "simple replicating molecule" come from? Did it originate itself? Ironically logic flies out the window in this passionate defense of anti-theism. If you don't have an answer you can at least admit it is problematic?

normar

neuro-praxis wrote: »

.... it is well documented that 50% of the world's leading evolutionists believe in a creator God, ..........evolution and theism can work together......

P.S. ........Where did the "simple replicating molecule" come from? Did it originate itself?.........

Show me where this " documented " evidence for your statement can be found (peer reviewed) please.

Evolution and theism are mutually opposing theories, with this difference, that the principles of evolution can be scientifically proven again and again. Why else are the religious right spending millions and millions of dollars to ridicule evolution.

To the "simple replicating molecule" question the answer is yes. But the molecule's origin pales into insignificance compared to the origin of the supernatural, all powerful, all knowing god who made the whole universe and who made everlasting souls for every person who ever lived and ever will live.

Did he/she/it originate itself like the simple molecule?

I will stick with evolution and give the soul thing a miss.


..

CodeMonkey

P.S. Where did the "simple replicating molecule" come from? Did it originate itself? Ironically logic flies out the window in this passionate defense of anti-theism. If you don't have an answer you can at least admit it is problematic?

Hmmm, you've never heard of the origin of life experiments then. I've seen documentories on it and this appears to be an article on the original experiment. http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/2948/orgel.html
The experiment basically shows that continuous exlectrical discharge like lightning in the right atmosphere can create amino acids and simple compounds which are building blocks for living things.

As for evolutionists believe in god. Well, I thought a lot of them just credits the origin of the universe to a creator/engineer. That is, the creator might have started the big bang and created a universe with the physical laws we know about. It's like a simulation they started and then galaxies formed, planets and then life etc. The creator has no direct influence on anything. So they kinda believe in a god cause they don't know what was before the big bang etc. That's not the same as theism and their believes in a god creating life on earth in his image malarky.

aidan24326

neuro-praxis wrote: »

Bloody hell, it is well documented that 50% of the world's leading evolutionists believe in a creator God, so stop trying to skew this conversation about a soul into something that denies that evolution and theism can work together. They always have and always will. Dawkins is a remarkably narrow minded man.

P.S. Where did the "simple replicating molecule" come from? Did it originate itself? Ironically logic flies out the window in this passionate defense of anti-theism. If you don't have an answer you can at least admit it is problematic?

It's amusing that you accuse normar of 'skewing the converation' when that's exactly what you've done yourself with your comment about 50% of evolutionists.

It's true that some evolutionists may believe in, or at least accept the possibility of, a designer/creator of the universe itself. That's a big big difference from the popular theist belief that god created all life on earth with a wave of his magic wand. Some would have you believe that this happened only thousands of years ago. I can assure there is not a credible evolutionary biologist in the world who believes in any of that. Note I said 'credible', i.e not a pseudo-science quack from the creationist camp.

Tar.Aldarion

No, we are bioelectrochemical machines, that is it. We are no different from a biological computer.

neuro-praxis

This is late but worth a look.

Scientists still believe in God.

nacho libre

'In 1916, when scientists were emerging as the high priests of a new technological culture, everybody cared about what they thought and believed,'' Dr. Marsden said. ''But the prestige of science peaked in 1960 and has been declining ever since. Do people still care whether scientists believe in God? I'm not so sure.''

nice finish...