And you's always wonder...

Mr Alan wrote: »

To the EL mafia,

It is none of your ****ing business who anyone chooses to support.

Plus you should count yourselves almost lucky. The crack you have at matches is probably far superior to most PL matches where half the crowd are people who have idea about the team they are there to watch, the history and traditions of the club or area only there on coporate tickets, stag weekends etc etc.

And in conclusion, its none of your ****ing business who anyone chooses to support.

Thank you.

No-one is saying you cant support some Plc in a town in another country you have no affinity to or in a majority of cases, never been.

But what I think the OP is getting at is you should have the wit to realise that by exclusively supporting foreign football you help ensure we might end up with Terry Venebels while other similar size countries can hire Haan, Hodgkinson, Rehhagel etc.

Your decision damages Irish football and us Irish football fans are well within our rights to look down our noses at you. It fundamentally comes down to this. Irish Rovers, Pats, Shels and Cork fans are better fans than Liverpool, Man Utd, Sunderland supporters. You are consumers, we are fans.

Thank You.

Haha this thread is about to erupt.

God, here we go again.

Look, its pretty simple. Until the eL registers as a charity organisation, I don't see why anyone would or should give them their hard earned cash to support a product that they don't enjoy when they can get a far superior one. The clubs have no money to invest, but there is money there and people willing to invest, so if I were the clubs and the fans, I'd be doing everything in my power to get that investment in.

In the meantime, it's dreadful to see Kilkenny City (but Kilkenny is just a town ) go, but it's not the fault of people who don't support the eL. It's the fault of the eL clubs, the FAI and the government.

Of course, none of them will talk to you on a football forum, so best take your frustrations on people who will.

DSB wrote: »

Obviously. But there is definitely more to it than that. I'm 100% sure we aren't the only country with a poorly run league (even though it is improving in many ways). It really is the attitude of Irish people, and it stretches beyond football. Even in music, local acts are largely ignored, at the expense of foreign acts. I'm sure the argument could be put forward that its because they're more talented. But I don't really buy that. We seem to be 1 of those countries who never really exerted our independence after getting it. An inferiority complex of some kind or something. Of course when you're U2 or the Irish national team and given undeserved media attention people show an interest, but in general the clubs and acts with heart are ignored because they're not high profile enough or something? I've nothing against the Premiership and I do follow Aston Villa but I wouldn't dare call myself a proper fan.

There may be more to it, but I don't think so. Irish music does pretty well by the way as do Irish actors - so much so that there have been some notable indie acts from other countries that moved to Ireland.

The problem is, there grass is always greener and there is always more money abroad.

The English league is as big as it is now due to money. Plain and simple. It was always popular but then Irish league clubs did better before Sky arrived. Fans are fickle and they know what they like. You can't blame them for going with their preferences anymore than you can blame someone from opting for a Radiohead gig the night of an Irish indie act gig.

I've seen the MLS rebuilt from scratch here. They did it with marketing, investment and gimmicks. They did it by latching on to the south american immigrant love of soccer. But they did it. The MLS soccer coverage on TV is awful, but it's still better than TV3 - which is just shocking when you think about it.

Ireland has a ready made fanbase of soccer enthusiasts. With the right approach, something could be done. But it's catch 22. Nothing can be done without money and people aren't going to attend until something is done.

Current eL fans don't understand this anymore than a hardcore GAA fan understands why someone supports football. They might say they do, but if they did, they certainly wouldn't be directing their resentment at people for not supporting something they don't like.

Mr Alan wrote: »

so you go to matches DSB just out of curiousity?

Villa matches i mean

Sometimes yeah, I try to make 2 or 3 a season. It's pretty fun like.

psi wrote: »

There may be more to it, but I don't think so. Irish music does pretty well by the way as do Irish actors - so much so that there have been some notable indie acts from other countries that moved to Ireland.

The problem is, there grass is always greener and there is always more money abroad.

The English league is as big as it is now due to money. Plain and simple. It was always popular but then Irish league clubs did better before Sky arrived. Fans are fickle and they know what they like. You can't blame them for going with their preferences anymore than you can blame someone from opting for a Radiohead gig the night of an Irish indie act gig.

I've seen the MLS rebuilt from scratch here. They did it with marketing, investment and gimmicks. They did it by latching on to the south american immigrant love of soccer. But they did it. The MLS soccer coverage on TV is awful, but it's still better than TV3 - which is just shocking when you think about it.

Ireland has a ready made fanbase of soccer enthusiasts. With the right approach, something could be done. But it's catch 22. Nothing can be done without money and people aren't going to attend until something is done.

Current eL fans don't understand this anymore than a hardcore GAA fan understands why someone supports football. They might say they do, but if they did, they certainly wouldn't be directing their resentment at people for not supporting something they don't like.

I understand that there could be alot more advertising done, but I genuinely believe that the average football poster on this forum anyway doesn't need that sort of thing to get into it. Football is football, the standard, although maybe not too close to being as high as in the Premiership, isn't crap even relatively when compared to the Premiership. It's definitely good enough for people to develop an interest in, if people would only get out of this mindset that people are currently in. I've read people say that they've been to Eircom League games and this gives them the right to make the statement, of course they have the right, but I genuinely believe these people went in with the mindset that it would be crap, and picked out any possible negative faults. It's definitely rich when you hear the toilets in stadiums being used as a factor. The toilets in most pubs people drink in aren't exactly top-notch either. It's about going out and having a good time and enjoying a good game of football, I like watching Villa play, also United or Arsenal games are class sometimes too, but they haven't a patch on travelling halfway across the country to watch your team and having a good time even if they lose.

DSB wrote: »

I understand that there could be alot more advertising done, but I genuinely believe that the average football poster on this forum anyway doesn't need that sort of thing to get into it. Football is football, the standard, although maybe not too close to being as high as in the Premiership, isn't crap even relatively when compared to the Premiership.

I agree, I should clarify. The eL is probably as good as 2/3rds of the Championship overall. The quality isn't that much below Wigan or Derby but then again, you don't get many Irish fans supporting those teams (at least not those under 40).

It's definitely good enough for people to develop an interest in, if people would only get out of this mindset that people are currently in. I've read people say that they've been to Eircom League games and this gives them the right to make the statement, of course they have the right, but I genuinely believe these people went in with the mindset that it would be crap, and picked out any possible negative faults.

Again maybe so. But you know its the person who pays that makes the choice. I just bought an season ticket to my local MLS team. I only did so after going to a few games, looking at the quality of the football, the atmosphere and the stadium. If people go to eL games and don't like what they see, they won't come back. Same as any other venue or event.

It's definitely rich when you hear the toilets in stadiums being used as a factor. The toilets in most pubs people drink in aren't exactly top-notch either. It's about going out and having a good time and enjoying a good game of football.

Well you're not seeing the bigger picture. It's hard enough to get people to start going as adults once, but doing it every generation is impossible. You want families going to games. You want Dads and kids. You want that because to be a successful club, you need a community fanbase. I'm not going to bring my kids to a stadium that I don't consider safe or appealing any more than I would to a pub.

I understand alot more could be done to attract families in, but alot of the time its hard to afford for clubs, especially if theres low gates already, and many a time we've seen what happens when clubs speculate to accumulate.

But all this aside, it doesn't change the attitude and mindset of the Irish public at large. I wouldn't be into singling out 1 United/Liverpool/Chelsea or whoever fan and telling them they weren't a real fan. But in general, I think Irish people at large are a bit ridiculous when it comes to their attitude.

Mr Alan wrote: »

well there you go, i watch a few of the howth celtic teams a bit! so **** all the EL fans, i'm the only hardcore football fan here!

Hahaha keep it up.

Unearthly wrote: »

What's this attitude? When people write off the league without ever going to or watching a few EL games? I agree someone like that is ignorant. Very common attitude.

I used to go to EL matches when i was a kid. Shelbourne were the team. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy them but for whatever reason I didn't keep it up. I think it's too late now for me too feel anything for an EL club. People will say you don't need to be a fan to go to the games, but I get bored watching football, unless it's a Man Utd game, or a fierce rival of Man Utd as they are the only team I care about.

I don't think its too late at all. I've brought lodza people from college to games mainly because I'm not really good friends with any Shels fans. They're all United fans, but come as Shels fans for the night, and you can see they get into it and when you get like a last minute winner or something, you can just tell they feel a part of it. They'll come out, and still go on like they're not much into it, but they keep coming back, and they keep enjoying it. It's definitely a matter of giving it a proper chance. If you aren't into it, maybe the problem isn't that you need to find a new league, maybe you just didn't like that particular team?