The bastardisation of Dublin Bus/16A route

blackbelt · 20-12-2007 11:07PM #1

I work in Dublin Airport and do the early shifts.The buses I get home are the 16A/41 or 746.The 16A leaves me closer to my house than the other two buses and is usually a 10 minute walk from my house.As I'm wrecked tired,an extra 5-7minute walk after work is not fun after spending all morning and afternoon on my feet.

This is what I'm enduring when I get on the 16A these days.The 16A route is supposed to service Cloghran (Old Airport Road),Santry,Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road and Collins Ave at the bingo hall.

On Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday,the 16A did not service Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road or Collins Ave because the bastard bus drivers are going down the fly-over by Whitehall Church.On Monday,I questioned the bus driver who then told me that he told everybody that he wasn't going to Beaumont when in fact he didn't.The same happened again on Tuesday.

On Wednesday,the driver turned right to go down the flyover.I ran downstairs not expecting this for a third time on the trot and asked him why he did not go straight.My question was met with mumbling about the "traffic".I walked that way and there was no traffic whatsoever and freezing people standing at the bus stops.

Does anybody use the 16A route and have they experienced this?They are doing these areas a disservice by not bothering to go through them when the route specifically states that the bus has to go down these routes.

I'm going to write/ring to Dublin Bus complaining.I have the rough time I got on the bus.I hope those drivers concerned get a slap on the wrist for this.

markpb · 20-12-2007 11:35PM

I guess the drivers are directed by the route controller to avoid Beaumont to try to stay on schedule. The junction at Beaumont House can be pretty awful and I'm sure it makes keeping the city and south parts of the route on time very hard.

It's poor of the driver not to tell people when they board or when they get instructions. At a guess, I presume you use a weekly ticket so the driver didn't know where you were going. He still should have tried to let you know though.

Stark · 20-12-2007 11:36PM

Even if the driver did let people on the bus know, that's not much good to the people waiting at the stops. No wonder people are loathe to use public transport.

blackbelt · 20-12-2007 11:42PM

I used coins.Monday,I got the bus at 2:10pm roughly and 1:15pm Tuesday.I got the bus on Wednesday at 5:30pm approx.

It happens occasionally that the route controller converses with the driver and usually the bus drivers make it very loud and clear whats happening but this has happened to me 3 days in a row with no clear informing of the route.It seems to me that some of these drivers are taking liberties with the route.

PS Beaumont junction can be a pain in the ass.They have the stop right outside the Beaumont House in front of the lights.

MiniD · 21-12-2007 12:21AM

This practice is not new, and not exclusive to the 16A. I often wonder what is the point in having a timetable and route map, when drivers and controllers change buses because of bad traffic or a late journey.
It's similar to drivers leaving the terminus early. Many claim to be just following instructions from the controller, which poses the question of who the bus service is actually for - passenger or controller?

Pulling a bus out of service is one thing, but pulling a bus off route mid journey to suit the controller without any notice to passengers is a disgrace. Even if the traffic at Beaumont House is bad, this should not be inflicted on passengers. Dublin Bus chose to route the 16A this way, and should run the bus regardless. Whatever about passengers waiting in the city for the bus, a thought must be spared for the passengers standing at Beaumont House waiting for their advertised service, which has now decided to bypass their stop?

I agree with Stark, it's incidents like this which force people away from using the bus.

My advice is to make a note of the times and departures involved with the 16A. If you know the bus number, include this also. Send an email to head office and the controller of Summerhill depot.

ucdperson · 21-12-2007 12:44AM

Do consumer authorities have no role in bus service provision? This is a case of Dublin Bus deliberately deciding not to provide an advertised service.

21-12-2007 01:38AM

It hasn't happened to me on the 16A, I get off before the mentioned stops, but something similar does happen with the 79 at times. Rather than going via Heuston Station the driver will turn up through Islandbridge on to Conyngham Road. Almost missed a train once because of it. Another favourite on the same route is where the driver or controller decides not to turn on to the south quays towards Dame Street and instead goes down the north quays via O'Connell Bridge to D'Olier Street and turns to Westmoreland Street where the route terminates.

I'm guessing the reason is traffic but I know that in some of the cases with the 79 the passengers weren't given sufficient notice.

meanmachine3 · 21-12-2007 04:10PM

i'll answer this best i can.
in the mornings going into the city centre from either the Airport or Santry between the hours of 07.30ish and 09.30ish the 16/16A do not service beaumont because of the heavy volumes of traffic on the beaumont road.

In the case of some A's not going through beaumont this would be an instruction given to the driver not to go there because in most cases he/she are runing dead late. The driver will NOT deviate from the route unless instructed. blackbelt i can assure you they are not taking liberties. most of the drivers on that route are a good bunch of lads.

on numerous occasions i have pointed out in here, drivers do not have enough time to do cross city routes.the driver only has about 1 hr 45 minutes to get from the airport to nutgrove picking up passengers all the way

There are some buses that leave the car park at whitehall church, go down collins ave. turn left onto beau. road ,turn left onto shantalla and then left again on top of the fly over heading back into town in the mornings

darkman2 · 21-12-2007 04:14PM

blackbelt wrote: »

I work in Dublin Airport and do the early shifts.The buses I get home are the 16A/41 or 746.The 16A leaves me closer to my house than the other two buses and is usually a 10 minute walk from my house.As I'm wrecked tired,an extra 5-7minute walk after work is not fun after spending all morning and afternoon on my feet.

This is what I'm enduring when I get on the 16A these days.The 16A route is supposed to service Cloghran (Old Airport Road),Santry,Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road and Collins Ave at the bingo hall.

On Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday,the 16A did not service Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road or Collins Ave because the bastard bus drivers are going down the fly-over by Whitehall Church.On Monday,I questioned the bus driver who then told me that he told everybody that he wasn't going to Beaumont when in fact he didn't.The same happened again on Tuesday.

On Wednesday,the driver turned right to go down the flyover.I ran downstairs not expecting this for a third time on the trot and asked him why he did not go straight.My question was met with mumbling about the "traffic".I walked that way and there was no traffic whatsoever and freezing people standing at the bus stops.

Does anybody use the 16A route and have they experienced this?They are doing these areas a disservice by not bothering to go through them when the route specifically states that the bus has to go down these routes.

I'm going to write/ring to Dublin Bus complaining.I have the rough time I got on the bus.I hope those drivers concerned get a slap on the wrist for this.

Happened to me twice - same bus/same route also getting off at beaumont. They seem to go through in the afternoons though but still its a pain in the arse.

trellheim · 21-12-2007 04:57PM

This diversion is in fact mentioned on the webpage

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=16 [ at the bottom ]

marmajam · 21-12-2007 05:35PM

I'm more worried about the Dublinisation of bastards.

Ste.phen · 21-12-2007 06:25PM

I thought the OP was complaining about the route deviation taking place in the afternoon/evening?
THe timetable does indeed show the 07.30-09.00 reroute

Victor · 21-12-2007 09:56PM

trellheim wrote: »

This diversion is in fact mentioned on the webpage

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=16 [ at the bottom ]

Do I get the impression that these buses operate 'the wrong way'?

Flukey · 21-12-2007 10:16PM

meanmachine3 wrote: »

on numerous occasions i have pointed out in here, drivers do not have enough time to do cross city routes.the driver only has about 1 hr 45 minutes to get from the airport to nutgrove picking up passengers all the way

Well get the bus controllers to get on to whoever decides the times and change the timetables to allow them longer than the 1hr 45mins and put on a few more buses to fill the gap.

The other thing that happens is buses changing numbers mid-route. This evening I was in town. At around 16:45, as regularly scheduled, a 46B started on its journey, with number and destination clearly on the front. I was among the first passengers. We got to Donnybrook and we had a driver change.

When it came to the point where a 46B turns off the Stillorgan dual carriageway to head up towards Mount Merrion, it went on straight. The driver was questioned by a number of passengers as to why it was happening and they were told it was now a 46A. There were a number of disgruntled passengers, as you can imagine, that were inconvenienced by this sudden change. They all knew full well that they had got on to a 46B and even when I pointed out to the driver that it had left at the scheduled time of the 46B, he still insisted it was a 46A. It didn't matter in one sense at that stage, as we were well past the turn it had to make, but there were some very annoyed people who wanted and specifically got on to a 46B. Buses changing routes and/or numbers mid-journey and inconveniencing passengers in the process, should not happen.

shltter · 21-12-2007 10:21PM

blackbelt wrote: »

I work in Dublin Airport and do the early shifts.The buses I get home are the 16A/41 or 746.The 16A leaves me closer to my house than the other two buses and is usually a 10 minute walk from my house.As I'm wrecked tired,an extra 5-7minute walk after work is not fun after spending all morning and afternoon on my feet.

This is what I'm enduring when I get on the 16A these days.The 16A route is supposed to service Cloghran (Old Airport Road),Santry,Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road and Collins Ave at the bingo hall.

On Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday,the 16A did not service Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road or Collins Ave because the bastard bus drivers are going down the fly-over by Whitehall Church.On Monday,I questioned the bus driver who then told me that he told everybody that he wasn't going to Beaumont when in fact he didn't.The same happened again on Tuesday.

On Wednesday,the driver turned right to go down the flyover.I ran downstairs not expecting this for a third time on the trot and asked him why he did not go straight.My question was met with mumbling about the "traffic".I walked that way and there was no traffic whatsoever and freezing people standing at the bus stops.

Does anybody use the 16A route and have they experienced this?They are doing these areas a disservice by not bothering to go through them when the route specifically states that the bus has to go down these routes.

I'm going to write/ring to Dublin Bus complaining.I have the rough time I got on the bus.I hope those drivers concerned get a slap on the wrist for this.

Drivers are instructed to do this sometimes literally when they are on the flyover.

If they have a couple of buses stuck in beaumont road it makes no sense to pile more buses in behind them whilst it will undoubtedly will inconvenience a number of people it is nothing compared to the number of people on the rest of the route that would be inconvenienced if 5 or 6 buses arrive late over in Rathfarnham and have to be sent back out of service so there is no service on that side for a couple of hours.

Also if the buses are taking too long to get through Beaumont then the controller may only allow every second or third bus to serve that area it has to be viewed in the sense of the overall route.

I agree that people should be informed often it is hard to inform everyone some people are in a world of their own some have an ipod stuck in their ears some speak little or no English and often the driver is informed just before the diversion.

If the controller gives a lawful instruction the driver is obliged to follow it and it is not up to the driver to inform the people along beaumont road it is obviously up to the controller to organise that but they don't.

Unfortunately it is a matter of trying to provide a service in this City its not perfect but it is being done for the best of reasons.

shltter · 21-12-2007 10:23PM

Victor wrote: »

Do I get the impression that these buses operate 'the wrong way'?

yes they do

shltter · 21-12-2007 10:24PM

Flukey wrote: »

Well get the bus controllers to get on to whoever decides the times and change the timetables to allow them longer than the 1hr 45mins and put on a few more buses to fill the gap.

The other thing that happens is buses changing numbers mid-route. This evening I was in town. At around 16:45, as regularly scheduled, a 46B started on its journey, with number and destination clearly on the front. I was among the first passengers. We got to Donnybrook and we had a driver change.

When it came to the point where a 46B turns off the Stillorgan dual carriageway to head up towards Mount Merrion, it went on straight. The driver was questioned by a number of passengers as to why it was happening and they were told it was now a 46A. There were a number of disgruntled passengers, as you can imagine, that were inconvenienced by this sudden change. They all knew full well that they had got on to a 46B and even when I pointed out to the driver that it had left at the scheduled time of the 46B, he still insisted it was a 46A. It didn't matter in one sense at that stage, as we were well past the turn it had to make, but there were some very annoyed people who wanted and specifically got on to a 46B. Buses changing routes and/or numbers mid-journey and inconveniencing passengers in the process, should not happen.

I would imagine that is was a mistake I have never heard of it happening on purpose

zanardi · 22-12-2007 01:24AM

The irony is that the 16a was originally brought in to service Beaumont, now it's either skipping it altogether or coming fully loaded with tourists from the Airport.

The real icing on the cake is 9 to 9:30 in the morning when it's impossible to tell which side of Beaumont/Shantalla road to stand on for a 16a towards town. No wonder everyone is now walking down as far as the viscount, past where our luas stop was meant to be.

At least we're getting fit.

jd · 22-12-2007 01:55AM

What happens is the junction gets blocked for traffic heading south on Shantalla Rd turning right on to Beaumont Rd . Perhaps the best thing would be to ban that right turn except for buses/taxis.

shltter · 22-12-2007 03:05AM

jd wrote: »

What happens is the junction gets blocked for traffic heading south on Shantalla Rd turning right on to Beaumont Rd . Perhaps the best thing would be to ban that right turn except for buses/taxis.

Beaumont Rd turning into Collins ave is the main problem

jd · 22-12-2007 03:10AM

shltter wrote: »

Beaumont Rd turning into Collins ave is the main problem

possibly/probably- I was just giving an opinion on what I have seen on Shantalla.
jd

shltter · 22-12-2007 03:12AM

zanardi wrote: »

The irony is that the 16a was originally brought in to service Beaumont, now it's either skipping it altogether or coming fully loaded with tourists from the Airport.

The real icing on the cake is 9 to 9:30 in the morning when it's impossible to tell which side of Beaumont/Shantalla road to stand on for a 16a towards town. No wonder everyone is now walking down as far as the viscount, past where our luas stop was meant to be.

At least we're getting fit.

In fairness the company are using a bit of initiative to try and provide a service to the area while keeping the buses moving.

Going the Normal way during peak hours can take 30 or 40 minutes to clear the area while reversing the run the area can be cleared in 10 minutes

It is confusing for people there is no doubt and better signage would help the other confusion is that the time buses return to normal routing is determined by their departure time not the time they reach beaumont so if traffic is light and a bus gets down to beaumont quickly you can have buses on both sides of the road going to the same place

shltter · 22-12-2007 03:14AM

jd wrote: »

possibly/probably- I was just giving an opinion on what I have seen on Shantalla.
jd

Shantalla can be bad as well but at the junction at Collins Ave the traffic coming up grace park road fills Collins Ave so there is no where for the traffic turning right to go

AlekSmart · 22-12-2007 01:29PM

Quote Blackbelt : "On Monday,Tuesday and Wednesday,the 16A did not service Shantalla Road,Beaumont Road or Collins Ave because the bastard bus drivers are going down the fly-over by Whitehall Church."

"I'm going to write/ring to Dublin Bus complaining.I have the rough time I got on the bus.I hope those drivers concerned get a slap on the wrist for this." END ]

I would suggest that any complaint to ANY agency is made in somewhat less colourful terms than those seeping from beneath Blackbelt`s covers

The points which are raised by this post really do relate to important stuff,such as EFFECTIVE Bus Priority Measures being introduced and AVAILABLE in short order.

For example the same situation is in effect over t`udder side at Blackrock village where at times Drivers will be told to "go in the straight" rather than thread their buses delicately between the lines of parked cars whose oweners have just popped in to browse through the Artwork.

If Blackbelt can rein in the epithet`s then a couple of letters to such agencies as the QBN Office in Dublin City Council might bring results..

trellheim · 22-12-2007 04:49PM

Ha ha ha that's a good christmas joke alek

Stark · 22-12-2007 04:53PM

AlexSmart wrote:

For example the same situation is in effect over t`udder side at Blackrock village where at times Drivers will be told to "go in the straight" rather than thread their buses delicately between the lines of parked cars whose oweners have just popped in to browse through the Artwork.

There should be some law allowing buses to plough through cars parked on double yellow lines.

MiniD · 22-12-2007 06:57PM

shltter wrote: »

Also if the buses are taking too long to get through Beaumont then the controller may only allow every second or third bus to serve that area it has to be viewed in the sense of the overall route.

I find this situation unacceptable. The 16A is a service between the Airport and Santry/Beaumont. It is not like a 41, which is a direct route to the City Centre. If what you're suggesting is correct, then there could be gaps of over an hour for buses between The Airport and Beaumont. That would be a serious reduction in the advertised timetable.

If there is a problem, then would it not be better to have the early morning diversion in place throughout the day also?

blackbelt · 22-12-2007 07:49PM

The 16A is specifically advertised to go through these areas except at the stated times.We have the 16 bus which goes from Santry (Shanowen Road) and goes out to Nutgrove as well.I see way more 16 than 16A buses btw.

The only difference is that the 16A goes from the airport.If Dublin Bus/16A route controller is so concerned about the traffic and passengers in Rathfarnham and Terenure,they should take that into account that there is a bus (16) that goes from a closer location that could deal with the time issue more effectively.The 41 goes to Abbey St and is a more direct route and the 746 goes to Dun Laoighaire.The 41 and 746 are direct in the sense that they are specifically advertised as servicing Cloghran,Santry,Whitehall,Drumcondra etc ie turning right to go down the flyover by Whitehall Church.

I don't see why/how passengers who want to get off in Shantalla and Beaumont should be ditched at the bridge and made walk to the advertised areas.The 16 bus can accomodate for the traffic problem in my opinion.It makes more sense to have the 746 and 41 as direct routes.The 41 is very frequent in comparison to the others.

Maybe the lads who do the 16/16A routes are sound but thats no excuse for them not to make it clear when they are not going through Shantalla and Beaumont.The "announcement" wasn't made over the intercom and I certainly didn't have any iPod stuck in my ears.

It is a pain in the arse when I find myself walking from Whitehall Church to Artane after a 9 hour day at work.

PS Why don't Dublin Bus provide a bus service from the airport that services Malahide and Howth Road?

meanmachine3 · 22-12-2007 08:03PM

PLEASE READ THESE LINES CAREFULLY.
the only way public transport is going to work in this city is if the ministers of transport and justice introduce a zero tollerence law.
what we need is a system like in london where buses have right of way. basically if you dont let them out you get 2 points and it doesn't matter what you drive be it truck car or taxi.
here you have bus lanes clogged up with taxi's that are parked. best example of this is dame street in bound the rank is from 8pm onwards and they use it as if it was a 24hr rank ,the guards do **** except "move along" if a few points went out then it wouldn't happen.
another one is Fleet street between Westmoreland street and D'olier street. this is for LOCAL ACCESS AND BUSES ONLY. right outside a garda stn and again nothing is being done to stop every joe soap using it.
from harrington street down to georges street no go area for anyone , taxi's again double and trebble parked. last buses from town not getting to o'connell street till after mid night sometimes.
bus stops right across the city being used as parking bays and everything thing else but bus stops.

the D.O.T. want to introduce a system for buses like they have on the luas. where buses would have a good run of lights as they approach them. this will only work if (A) it's enforced properly and (B) buses only.

By the way " BUSES ONLY" does not include taxi's for those of you who cant read.

rant over

blackbelt · 22-12-2007 08:17PM

meanmachine3 wrote: »

PLEASE READ THESE LINES CAREFULLY.
the only way public transport is going to work in this city is if the ministers of transport and justice introduce a zero tollerence law.
what we need is a system like in london where buses have right of way. basically if you dont let them out you get 2 points and it doesn't matter what you drive be it truck car or taxi.
here you have bus lanes clogged up with taxi's that are parked. best example of this is dame street in bound the rank is from 8pm onwards and they use it as if it was a 24hr rank ,the guards do **** except "move along" if a few points went out then it wouldn't happen.
from harrington street down to georges street no go area for anyone , taxi's again double and trebble parked. last buses from town not getting to o'connell street till after mid night sometimes.
bus stops right across the city being used as parking bays and everything thing else but bus stops.

the D.O.T. want to introduce a system for buses like they have on the luas. where buses would have a good run of lights as they approach them. this will only work if (A) it's enforced properly and (B) buses only.

By the way " BUSES ONLY" does not include taxi's for those of you who cant read.
rant over

On the bolded line,the perfect example I have of this is on the Malahide Road opposite Donnycarney church.There is a set of lights that are specifically placed there to give buses the right of way where there is a bus stop before the cross junction.Bastard taxi men use this as a rat run to by-pass normal traffic when the road markings state "Buses Only".

Whenever I'm driving and see Taxis do/attempt this,I roll the car just to the the exit of the corridor and cut them off there and then.

shltter · 01-01-2008 03:19AM

MiniD wrote: »

I find this situation unacceptable. The 16A is a service between the Airport and Santry/Beaumont. It is not like a 41, which is a direct route to the City Centre. If what you're suggesting is correct, then there could be gaps of over an hour for buses between The Airport and Beaumont. That would be a serious reduction in the advertised timetable.

If there is a problem, then would it not be better to have the early morning diversion in place throughout the day also?

No it is a service between the Airport and Rathfarnham and everywhere in between

DB have an obligation to the people in Rathfarnham who want to use the 16A to get to terenure as much as they do to people who want to get from the airport to Beaumont.

If DB allowed the entire service to get bogged down in gridlock on the Beaumont Road then they would be neglecting the rest of the people who are using the service

And this was December so it would not make any sense to implement a change for the entire route for 12 months of the year for a problem that may happen for a few hours on a few days in December.
If it was a permanent problem then it could be dealt with in such a manner but a temporary problem caused by the Christmas rush does not need an entire route change

The bastardisation of Dublin Bus/16A route

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