Times when you should question your religious belief!

the_syco · 10-12-2007 04:37AM

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

and that non belief is a faith in and of itself

How the f**k can not believing be a faith?

Requiem4adream · 10-12-2007 05:30AM

You have to admire his dedication though. It's like the Hunger Strikers back in the early 80's - retarded in most peoples eyes but i certainly wish i could take that determination and apply it to something in my life!

Statso · 10-12-2007 06:26AM

Requiem4adream wrote: »

You have to admire his dedication though. It's like the Hunger Strikers back in the early 80's - retarded in most peoples eyes but i certainly wish i could take that determination and apply it to something in my life!

Did you seriously just call Bobby Sands and the rest of the hunger strikers retarded?!

condra · 10-12-2007 06:51AM

I agree that this is a NSFW, considering the images of the man. I understand why some people think its funny, but personally I find it tragic.

Mods! - Please, please don't move this thread to A&A. I think its great that people are discussing religion here in After Hours.

ThatGuy wrote:

Really feel sorry for the guy - but at the same time it's self inflicted.
(Not the tumor - but his refusal to have it treated)

One might argue that his religion is not self-inflicted. Like most religious people, he may well have been indoctrinated during childhood.

Either way, it reminds me of an episode of South Park where Kyle gives one of his "gay little speeches" after Chef became a scientologist. When deciding where to place the blame he said:

It wasn’t really Chef, it was that fruity little club that scrambled his brains!

I have sympathy for this man, and don't hold him responsible for his current condition. I see him as a victim of religion.

pretty-in-pink wrote: »

I am happy with my religon, I do not think I'm a lame brain for having one.

Good for you.

we are no more sheep then non-believers are (and that non belief is a faith in and of itself)

Eh, No! Trust me. Atheism is not belief. It is the polar opposite.

Perhaps you should be glad of this fact, most theists see faith as a virtue.

Some people are crazy, some religons are crazy, as are most cults- JWs are a pretty messed up one. As are all fundamentalist religons, and the same applies to the fake ones (scientology ffs).

As far as most atheists are concerned, all religions are "fake", though I get what you mean. Scientology is slightly more ridiculous than Christianity.

Still, I'm sure there are plenty of aspects of most religions which could be considered harmfull, or potentially harmfull, apart from the sheer time and energy wasted on a delusion.

the_syco wrote:

How the f**k can not believing be a faith?

LMAO. Some people eh?

SubjectSean · 10-12-2007 07:10AM

the_syco wrote: »

How the f**k can not believing be a faith?

Surely as an atheist you 'believe' the universe to be accidental randomness and have no prime cause? Is this not faith?

condra · 10-12-2007 07:36AM

SubjectSean wrote: »

Surely as an atheist you 'believe' the universe to be accidental randomness and have no prime cause? Is this not faith?

Dude, seriously. Get over it.

atheism
Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god.

Some things, many things, are just plain fact, and we dont call belief in them "faith" because they are supported by overwhelming EVIDENCE.

Everyone knows that 4 plus 4 = 8.
Those who don't are stupid or deluded.

Everyone knows that fish generally live in water, and that if people dont eat, they die of starvation.
Those who don't are stupid or deluded.

If something is theory, we may say that we subscribe to the theory.

If you can't get your head around the fact that atheism is not "belief" or "faith", you need help. When in respect of religion and theology, the words "belief" and "faith" usually refer to belief in things which are NOT supported by overwhelming evidence, particularly the existence of gods.

Sean, I suspect yourself and PIP both realise that your comments annoy and frustrate atheists, and I'm guessing that's why they were made.

Still, your tactics have worked, we have been distracted from the issue at hand, which is a man whos life has been completely wrecked because of a superstitious delusion.

I bet you love when atheists call religion a superstitious delusion.

thefinalstage · 10-12-2007 08:47AM

The chap in the first link doesn't give a crap about his condition. In fact he uses it to make money :P.

seamus · 10-12-2007 10:24AM

SubjectSean wrote: »

Surely as an atheist you 'believe' the universe to be accidental randomness and have no prime cause? Is this not faith?

That depends.

Many atheists are probably atheist because they reckon that on the balance of probabilities, the most likely thing is that God doesn't exist. It's probably not something they would give a whole pile of thought to otherwise.
"Faith" implies a belief which is strongly held and on which you base most of your actions and opinions. Atheism doesn't include any doctrine or otherwise any direction on how to live your life.
Faith also implies belief in spite of there being no evidence. Atheists would consider themselves the exact opposite of that - they believe *because* there is no evidence.

Dudess · 10-12-2007 10:47AM

Statso wrote: »

Did you seriously just call Bobby Sands and the rest of the hunger strikers retarded?!

Yeah he/she did. Definitely.

Why don't you actually read the post properly...?

10-12-2007 10:52AM

That was sickest thing I've ever seen... there really should be lines drawn when something like this happens.

Wacker · 10-12-2007 11:22AM

KaG1888 wrote: »

That was sickest thing I've ever seen... there really should be lines drawn when something like this happens.

I disagree - if a guy wants to ruin his life then there are hundreds of ways of doing it. For some, they sit around drinking all day and live off the cahrity of others. For this guy, it means not getting treatment. I wish all these people would get their sh*t together, but I don't believe any attempt to force them would work.

What I don't understand is why his siblings would put it him. Now, I haven't seen the documentary, and even that would only give a brief glimpse of their lives. I can honestly admit that I would never feel a family bond so strong as to help a brother of mine if he were in such a situation and was unwilling to help himself.

ScumLord · 10-12-2007 11:44AM

womoma wrote:

Eh, No! Trust me. Atheism is not belief. It is the polar opposite.

Yes it is, Atheists are religious about there disbelief. The opposite of love isn't hate, if Atheists truly believed religion has such a load of pooie they wouldn't get so worked up about it. I think if you compared the brains of a religious person thinking about god to an Atheist thinking about how untrue God is you'd see the same part of the brain lit up.

Back to tumor face, he's a fool. I don't know where they picked blood transfusions out of a 2000 year old book but this reminds me of that joke about yourman stuck on the top of his house during a flood, 2 rescue boats and a chopper come to save him but he sends them away saying God will save me. Just before the water goes up over he's head and he's about to die he asks God "Why didn't you save me?" To which God replies "I sent 2 boats and a feckin Helicopter what more do you want??!"

With a condition like he has I'd say he has surgeons from all over the world beggin to cure him, for FREE! He's an utter tool.

Wacker · 10-12-2007 12:08PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes it is, Atheists are religious about there disbelief. The opposite of love isn't hate, if Atheists truly believed religion has such a load of pooie they wouldn't get so worked up about it. I think if you compared the brains of a religious person thinking about god to an Atheist thinking about how untrue God is you'd see the same part of the brain lit up.

Who's getting worked up? Imagine if someone said to you that you (e.g.) collect model trains. You then pointed out that you don't. That guy then insists that you do. You, naturally, get a little bit angry and insist that you don't. If he then says that you kind of do, because you spend all your time going on about model trains, and thus you must be obsessed, he'd be talking rubbish, right? This is a comparable situation.

I am not a religious person. When someone says that I am, I tell them that they're wrong. Usually they'll accept this. Sometimes they'll then pass on some rubbish that they heard someone else say in the hope of coming across as smart about my being religiously against religion. Well, I guess I'm also model-train-collectingly against collecting model trains.

Rob_l · 10-12-2007 12:08PM

His need to seek religous acceptance is nearly as appalling as his physical appearance

ScumLord · 10-12-2007 12:21PM

Wacker wrote: »

Who's getting worked up? Imagine if someone said to you that you (e.g.) collect model trains. You then pointed out that you don't. That guy then insists that you do. You, naturally, get a little bit angry and insist that you don't. If he then says that you kind of do, because you spend all your time going on about model trains, and thus you must be obsessed, he'd be talking rubbish, right? This is a comparable situation.

I am not a religious person. When someone says that I am, I tell them that they're wrong. Usually they'll accept this. Sometimes they'll then pass on some rubbish that they heard someone else say in the hope of coming across as smart about my being religiously against religion. Well, I guess I'm also model-train-collectingly against collecting model trains.

I think that's a bad example, who in there right mind wouldn't love model trains???

5uspect · 10-12-2007 12:41PM

SubjectSean wrote: »

Surely as an atheist you 'believe' the universe to be accidental randomness and have no prime cause? Is this not faith?

I try not to hold beliefs on such matters. I look at the evidence and current theories regarding the origin of the universe and must accept or reject them until a more satisfying hypothesis is developed which must explain more of the facts with fewer assumptions.

To assume that the universe is either random or results form a prime cause are hypothesis that you appear to invest faith in one of.

condra · 10-12-2007 02:14PM

KaG1888 wrote: »

there really should be lines drawn when something like this happens.

Do you he think he should be forced to get medical help, including a blood transfusion if required?

Stercus Accidit · 10-12-2007 02:33PM

Can we please get a ****ing warning next time, I wasnt prepared for that.

That sort of thing would drive me TO religion. (not really)

10-12-2007 02:37PM

Still though, he isn't as bad as the Half Man, Half Tree dude.

I don't understand why blood transfusions are against religion though.

10-12-2007 02:40PM

womoma wrote: »

Do you he think he should be forced to get medical help, including a blood transfusion if required?

Well I look at it this way. Is it in their beliefs that suicide is wrong? Answer: Yes .Therefore letting himself fall into this life threatening state he is in is surely suicide in the long run? Suicide being a more serious issue should surely push the bondaries of what they can and cannot do.

Rob_l · 10-12-2007 02:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Still though, he isn't as bad as the Half Man, Half Tree dude.

I don't understand why blood transfusions are against religion though.

some religious beliefs come from sound scientific advise the blood one would have been sound way back in the day in that an exchange of blood is medically dangerous back then but that does not mean you should keep century old beliefs because they were wrote down in a book 2000 years ago.

seamus · 10-12-2007 02:55PM

KaG1888 wrote: »

Well I look at it this way. Is it in their beliefs that suicide is wrong? Answer: Yes .Therefore letting himself fall into this life threatening state he is in is surely suicide in the long run? Suicide being a more serious issue should surely push the bondaries of what they can and cannot do.

That would be an ecumenical matter, not a medical or legal one.

ScumLord · 10-12-2007 03:04PM

Rob_l wrote: »

some religious beliefs come from sound scientific advise the blood one would have been sound way back in the day in that an exchange of blood is medically dangerous back then but that does not mean you should keep century old beliefs because they were wrote down in a book 2000 years ago.

Did they do blood transfusions back then?

Rob_l · 10-12-2007 03:12PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Did they do blood transfusions back then?

no but some ancient customs may have involved exchange of bodily fluids passing disease I dont think it talks about blood transfusions in the bible i think it talks about swapping or exchanging blood somehow

bleg · 10-12-2007 03:17PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think if you compared the brains of a religious person thinking about god to an Atheist thinking about how untrue God is you'd see the same part of the brain lit up.

What?!

Is that actually a serious argument? You think that the same sections of the brain would be "lit up." What has that got to do with anything?

Have you got any evidence to support what you think?

Well until you do I'm not going to accept what you think might be happening in the brains of a theist or atheist.

Much in the same way that I'm not going to believe in a supernatural being without any evidence to support such a belief.

Doctor DooM · 10-12-2007 03:20PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes it is, Atheists are religious about there disbelief. The opposite of love isn't hate, if Atheists truly believed religion has such a load of pooie they wouldn't get so worked up about it. I think if you compared the brains of a religious person thinking about god to an Atheist thinking about how untrue God is you'd see the same part of the brain lit up.

Back to tumor face, he's a fool. I don't know where they picked blood transfusions out of a 2000 year old book but this reminds me of that joke about yourman stuck on the top of his house during a flood, 2 rescue boats and a chopper come to save him but he sends them away saying God will save me. Just before the water goes up over he's head and he's about to die he asks God "Why didn't you save me?" To which God replies "I sent 2 boats and a feckin Helicopter what more do you want??!"

With a condition like he has I'd say he has surgeons from all over the world beggin to cure him, for FREE! He's an utter tool.

Very simple flaw in your argument here:

Only atheists you notice are the ones who get worked up. The ones you dont notice simply dont care, and therefore dont rise to comments like this.

And there are squigillions of them.

Mossy Monk · 10-12-2007 03:26PM

Where was his God when that thing started growing on his face.

Rob_l · 10-12-2007 03:28PM

SDooM wrote: »

Very simple flaw in your argument here:

Only atheists you notice are the ones who get worked up. The ones you dont notice simply dont care, and therefore dont rise to comments like this. And there are squigillions of them.

I think a lot of people who call themselves atheists may in fact be agnostics
just a personal believe before im nailed to a cross for saying it:D

Rob_l · 10-12-2007 03:29PM

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Where was his God when that thing started growing on his face.

busy leaving man with free will on earth in all that entails

Lockstep · 10-12-2007 03:34PM

In my experience, the people who label themselves atheists the first time you meet them are often every bit as intolerant as the worst fundamentalist.

I met a girl the other day who gave me a big long speech about how religion is all based on astrology and cited that there are 12 constellations, 12 patriarchs, 12 tribes, 12 brothers of Joseph etc etc. Her knowledge was wacked and made references to things like Dionysos being born of a virgin and every major deity being born on the 25h of December. My favorite point was when she said "If your one of the religious people who knows about the bible(rare) then you'll remember when Jesus came from the mountain and got angry when a golden calf was made". She really reminded me of other fundamentalists I've met as she was intolerant, narrow minded and had a belief system where she warped facts in order to suit her: like a lot of fundamentalists, she had an ideology of "I know the truth, now give me the facts to support it", also made statements saying all evil is done in the name of religion while ignoring people who have done good in it's name and ignoring atheistic crimes.

People like that annoythe hell outta me, I've met many people like her and they always claim to be anti-religion, but are almost universally being rabidly anti christian but careful to be PC about Islam(worried about being called Islamophobic) and Judaism(Antisemite)

I try to keep an open mind and am open to any religion or lack thereof. But I find many atheists to be as self-righteous as any Fire-and Brimstone preacher.

That said, I've obviously met many many good, humane atheists who keep an open mind on everything. They just personally find it to be impossible for there to be no God.

Personally? I find the idea of the world coming from nothing as irrational as it coming from a God(s). So I keep an open mind on all religions.

Times when you should question your religious belief!

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