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Do the 'nations' belonging to the 'nation' of the UK have an identity crisis?

2»

Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mike65 wrote: »
    Were'nt many of the "planted" the decendents of Irish who went to SW Scotland in the 8th/9th century?

    Mike.

    Don't think so, I believe that most of the "planted" were Lowland Scots, decendants of Vikings etc, not celts.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hagar wrote: »
    When was the last time you ordered in a Unionist meal?
    Don't tell me your fruiterer delivers oranges.:D

    I only know of ONE "Indian" resturant run by Indians, the rest are Pakistani or Bengladeshi run.

    Unionist meal, what would be in it :confused: (answers on a postcard) ;)


  • #34
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Some people just prefer to build walls rather than bridges

    I actually agree with him - f!ck them......they were planted there, they threw native Irish off their own land and now want the North of this country to not be Irish. No time for these people tbh. Actually it could be argued they are mentally disturbed - the Unionists. They are far from logical people. They also get a buzz from being under a sense of siege. I wonder why......


  • #35
    county
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,800 ✭✭✭county


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I only know of ONE "Indian" resturant run by Indians, the rest are Pakistani or Bengladeshi run.

    Unionist meal, what would be in it :confused: (answers on a postcard) ;)

    charcoal feinien perhaps


    back on topic,i am english and british,no identity crisis here


  • #36
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    latchyco wrote: »
    Yea, thats how ironic and they have being pointing this out in the british press for years now, but equally their are threads on here about how people in the ROI are worried about how their irishness and culture is being lost and diluted by the same influx of emmigrants (on a smaler scale ) as in uk , i am sure ? .

    OP is referring to UK, so ROI doesnt really come into it as such. But with regards Ireland and Irish culture been diluted, can't see it that way myself, far from it,if people have fears about this,personally I think they may have other issues.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I suppose the sense of nationhood only deteriates when traditions unique to that country are allowed to die out, in England, morris dancing for example, is only for the tourists, no one really identifies with it any more.
    A lot of old English traditions have either died out altogether or are now international and no longer considered English.


  • #38
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Now that Ireland have got Italy in world cup draw, we are never going to hear the end of the 1990 world cup when we won, actually we won no matches in normal time.

    Why, when we could go on about 1994, when we beat Italy in normal time (rewengay!), something not even "champions" Brazil could manage, making us de facto winners, if it hadn't been for those pesky Dutch kids.

    Campione, campione, etc., etc.
    Deleted User wrote: »

    Unionist meal, what would be in it :confused: (answers on a postcard) ;)

    Beedled champ, of course. :rolleyes:


  • #39
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Why, when we could go on about 1994, when we beat Italy in normal time (rewengay!), something not even "champions" Brazil could manage, making us de facto winners, if it hadn't been for those pesky Dutch kids.

    Campione, campione, etc., etc.


    I forgot about that:D


  • #40
    Cionnfhaolaidh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭Cionnfhaolaidh


    latchyco wrote: »
    Yea, thats how ironic and they have being pointing this out in the british press for years now, but equally their are threads on here about how people in the ROI are worried about how their irishness and culture is being lost and diluted by the same influx of emmigrants (on a smaler scale ) as in uk , i am sure ? .

    The majority of Irish culture has already been lost to British culture.


  • #41
    robinph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭robinph


    darkman2 wrote: »
    However why then in Football and most other sports do they play as other 'nations' like Scotland, Wales and England.
    For football at least there is a reason for them to want to keep the seperate compteting countries despite only being the one nation* as they then get the majority vote on any rule changes or other things that the likes of Fifa might decide upon. The UK has four seats on the games governing body, the rest of the EU gets two seats I think and then another one or two for the rest of the world to share between them.


    * Might have got the usage of 'country' and 'nation' the wrong way round but we'll ignore that for now.


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  • #42
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,640 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    darkman2 wrote: »
    Its a big topic and loads of contradictions can be found but do you think the British have an identity problem?

    There are not contradictions. They are complexities that have evolved over time because of political decisions and the voluntary associations of peoples of these islands. Why does Ireland play as a single team at rugby, but two teams at soccer? Why does the Republic have a common travel agreement with Britain but not France? Why have more Irishmen died fighting for Britain than ever fought against it? Why do do the Celtic nations cheer for whoever is playing against England, except when it is rugby and we all play together as the British and Irish Lions? Why do we call ourselves Celtic when we don't even speak the language anymore and aren't Celtic by blood?

    I could go on. But just go with the flow. A 1000-page history book would only scratch the surface of all these complexities...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #43
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »
    The majority of Irish culture has already been lost to British culture.
    Maybe so , but hasn't the influx of immigrants in recent years to ireland brought other cultures to the fore as well ? .


  • #44
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »
    The majority of Irish culture has already been lost to British culture.

    It has.

    Chinese Take aways, Indian Take aways, Pizza, Bagels, McDonalds, 24x7 kwikimarts, Heinekan, Grolsch, customising cars, Gucci, Prada, Dior, BMW, Mercedes, Facebook....damn those Brits:D

    There is a lot of British influence, but mainly as part of the globalisation of brands such as Tesco and the Premier League and the Irish obsession with Corrie and Eastenders but that is due in part to the complete crap that is RTE.

    The above list shows other influences that are non british but have had just as much effect on Irish culture.


  • #45
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Aren't there more Irish theme pubs in England than there are English theme pubs in Ireland? In fact, are there any English theme pubs in Ireland at all? If there are, I wonder what the fire-insurance premium would be.:D


  • #46
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Aren't there more Irish theme pubs in England than there are English theme pubs in Ireland? In fact, are there any English theme pubs in Ireland at all? If there are, I wonder what the fire-insurance premium would be.:D

    I love Irish theme pubs, you can tell them, they have words like "Enjoy the Craic" written above the door and you can buy bad Beamish served by an Australian on a gap year.:D:rolleyes:

    They are usually full of Americans


  • #47
    Cionnfhaolaidh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭Cionnfhaolaidh


    latchyco wrote: »
    Maybe so , but hasn't the influx of immigrants in recent years to ireland brought other cultures to the fore as well ? .

    Yes of course. It's a great thing for the island. Ireland needs a kick up the arse in relation to culture and identity, so it's great to see these immigrants comming here injecting some life into the place.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There is a lot of British influence, but mainly as part of the globalisation of brands...
    The above list shows other influences that are non british but have had just as much effect on Irish culture.

    The idea of "British influence" in modern Ireland is absolutely negligible. The Irish are British. There is nothing that differentiates you from England, Scotland or Wales. Name one thing that makes Ireland different to the rest of the UK. Irish people are content with every aspect of British culture. The English language, literature, ideals, laws, sports and arts, these are all rooted deeply into Ireland and its people.

    The only native culture in Ireland is Gaelic culture and there is very, very little of it left. The Irish lost their Brehon Laws, their language, literature, arts, music and sports, all in favour of the "British ways".

    I reckon only 3% of Irish people still practice true Irish culture, me being one of them. I've put a lot of effort into learning about every aspect of Gaelic culture. I speak Gaelic, I play Irish music and I study Gaelic history. At this stage I feel that I have truly earned my Irish citizenship.

    It's good to see new nationalities coming into this island. They have already made their own cultural mark in a big way in Ireland - just walk down Parnell Street! Meanwhile, the rest of you are absolutely oblivious to the fact that you actually have your own culture. Use it! Show it off for God's sake!


  • #48
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I love Irish theme pubs, you can tell them, they have words like "Enjoy the Craic" written above the door and you can buy bad Beamish served by an Australian on a gap year.:D:rolleyes:

    They are usually full of Americans

    and have a bike in the window and road sign telling me how many miles it is to Galway:D

    To be honest the best nights I have had out have actually been in English bars in London, was one pub I used to go to on a Saturday night, quality bitter, Frank Bruno look a like, ex army who used to play cds, people dancing on tables and the bar counter, encouraged by the staff, really friendly locals, pissed people with manners. Best night was few years ago, Ireland had beaten England in the rugby, full of England supporters, a bloke in an Irish top walks in, congragulated by the English lads all night,and finally the sight of England supporters dancing and singing The Irish rover.


  • #49
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »

    The idea of "British influence" in modern Ireland is absolutely negligible. The Irish are British. There is nothing that differentiates you from England, Scotland or Wales. Name one thing that makes Ireland different to the rest of the UK. Irish people are content with every aspect of British culture. The English language, literature, ideals, laws, sports and arts, these are all rooted deeply into Ireland and its people.

    The only native culture in Ireland is Gaelic culture and there is very, very little of it left. The Irish lost their Brehon Laws, their language, literature, arts, music and sports, all in favour of the "British ways".


    Have to say I agree with you.


  • #50
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    I always thought, and am probably wrong but..

    I thought that Britannia was the Roman name given to the Island of Britain.
    Hence recognising it as Britain recognises it as an entity inclusive of Scotland Wales etc.

    United kingdom means technically the same thing, uniting each kingdom ie wales etc accepting that its a monarchial state.

    Then us lot, the Irish, were included in that in the early 1800's as an add on.

    Either way England recognises it more realistically. I keep having to reiterate that to my nordie other half who thinks he's from the UK in general conversation. :confused:

    If someone could historically tell me where the "great" bit in great britain came from, that would be interesting. Or perhaps educmacate me further.


  • #51
    Cionnfhaolaidh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭Cionnfhaolaidh


    bug wrote: »
    I always thought, and am probably wrong but..

    I thought that Britannia was the Roman name given to the Island of Britain.

    If someone could historically tell me where the "great" bit in great britain came from, that would be interesting. Or perhaps educmacate me further.

    The ancient Greeks and Romans called the peoples of these Isles the "Britannic", referring to the majority Celtic peoples that inhabited both islands.

    With the rise of English power in Britain, the term 'British' became synonymous with the English monarchy and its territory.

    That's why many Irish people reject the term "British Isles" in relation to Ireland because it has political connotations.

    "Great" Britain just means the greater (larger) of the British islands; Ireland being the the lesser island and Britain being the largest. "Great" does not mean better or grander.


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  • #52
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »
    The ancient Greeks and Romans called the peoples of these Isles the "Britannic", referring to the majority Celtic peoples that inhabited both islands.

    With the rise of English power in Britain, the term 'British' became synonymous with the English monarchy and its territory.

    That's why many Irish people reject the term "British Isles" in relation to Ireland because it has political connotations.

    "Great" Britain just means the greater (larger) of the British islands; Ireland being the the lesser island and Britain being the largest. "Great" does not mean better or grander.
    The Romans they go in the 'ouse

    The Romans referred to this island as Hibernia.
    Britannia was only a part of England and Wales.
    Scotland was known as Caledonia.


  • #53
    Cionnfhaolaidh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭Cionnfhaolaidh


    Terry wrote: »
    The Romans they go in the 'ouse

    The Romans referred to this island as Hibernia.
    Britannia was only a part of England and Wales.
    Scotland was known as Caledonia.
    Were you trying to undermine my post or add to it?

    The fact remains: Britannic was the name given to the Celtic inhabitants of these Isles during the Roman Empire.


  • #54
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »
    The fact remains: Britannic was the name given to the Celtic inhabitants of these Isles during the Roman Empire.

    Link?

    So the Romans label a group of people that resided here as Britannic and its accepted as fact? :)

    Guess Hibernia didn't exists then either..lol


  • #55
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    Best night was few years ago, Ireland had beaten England in the rugby, full of England supporters, a bloke in an Irish top walks in, congragulated by the English lads all night,and finally the sight of England supporters dancing and singing The Irish rover.

    was that before or after England won the word cup :D


  • #56
    Cionnfhaolaidh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 141 ✭✭Cionnfhaolaidh


    gurramok wrote: »
    Link?

    So the Romans label a group of people that resided here as Britannic and its accepted as fact? :)

    Guess Hibernia didn't exists then either..lol

    lol


  • #57
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    was that before or after England won the word cup :D


    before.


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