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Lazy Teachers

135678

Comments

  • #62
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    dame wrote: »
    No they just sit up at night instead wasting time on baords because they are super-humans who don't need any sleep before going into work the next day. :rolleyes: It must be a very stressful job.

    Well in my defence of that one, I don't teach Thursdays and Fridays, I just observe or go to college. This week I managed to get some free time so I took the (rare) chance to get home and see my family and boyfriend.

    Also, I definitely correct all homework I give out. Students, especially younger students, don't see something as important unless you put some time into correcting it. If you give out homework and only correct it once in awhile, then your students will take a gamble and not bother doing it. It is also a useful way to check that the students understand something.

    I do all this correcting at home, because in between classes I have to evaluate my classes to see if they went well, photocopy, make out/change lesson plans, etc. I only teach 5 classes (although some weeks I am asked to cover full days because of in service days or class trips, etc.) a week because I am a Dip, and I can only imagine how difficult it must be for a fully qualified teacher.


  • #63
    knird evol
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭knird evol


    Trotter wrote: »
    Every exercise a child writes in my class, in 3 or 4 subjects a day, gets corrected by me.

    Towards what end.


  • #64
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Rubbish, tbh. My mother usually spent 2-3 hours an evening marking homework. She taught 4th, 5th and 6th, and usually had at least 30 pupils between the 3 classes ... one year she had 38.

    i always felt guilty about this so to alleviate some of the stress, i never did homework


  • #65
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    At least they work - better that than a dole-leeching fcuktard.

    At the same time im p1ssed off cos my programmer lecturer is a completely clueless muppet: all our notes are taken right out of google and you couldnt ask her a question and expect an intelligible answer. At least my other teachers know what their talking about regardless of their other faults.

    Its hard to find a lazy secondary teacher imo: they do the dirty. Shoutouts to Jamesie O Connors Economics and Fuzzy McInerney's English :D


  • #66
    RuailleBuaille
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭RuailleBuaille


    dame wrote: »
    Your friend must be doing her Dip year then. Teachers usually give up all those hours of prep every evening once they're over that first year. Ask any teacher (who has been qualified a few years) if you can see their lesson plans and they won't have many recent ones (or any at all) to show you.

    Absolute ****e. Teachers are required by the DES to have yearly, monthly and weekly schemes and plans of work done in EVERY subject, dip year or not. And these cannot be done in class time. So while I finish 'early' (2.40)pm, I'm still in work until half four every day preparing for the days and weeks ahead. Don't know how many teachers you've asked this of, but I strongly suspect you are just generalising and actually don't know what you are talking about.


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  • #67
    RuailleBuaille
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭RuailleBuaille


    dame wrote: »
    Primary teachers very very rarely spend time in the evenings marking work. They are usually expected to do a set of standard tests every year and will probably mark those outside of school, but otherwise they will generally mark things during the day.

    Secondary teachers might have more need to mark things outside of school hours (class tests, mock exams, etc). Then again, secondary teachers may have free periods during their day which very few primary teachers have. Those free periods can be used for marking.

    Primary teachers can do optional training (a few days) during the summer but doing it gives them "course days" that they may take at any stage during the next school year. I presume this is what kbannon was referring to? Secondary teachers have the option of supervising exams or marking exams, both of which they will be paid for (on top of their salary for working the rest of the year). If it's optional then they can't really complain about it.

    I'm embarrassed for you, you have no idea what you are talking about. Course weeks MUST be done during the summer, it is not optional. It is about teacher development, improving ourselves and the level of help we can offer our students, not just to get course days. And why wouldn't primary school teachers spend time correcting in the evening? Do you go and check this? I teach second class, we have 5 textbooks, 8 copybooks and countless worksheets and you think we 'generally mark these during the day'? So when do we get teaching done? And are you taking into account the free time, UNPAID time teachers put in organising Christmas plays, art exhibitions, science/ maths/ Gaeilge/ fundraiser days? They are all extra-curricular and unpaid. Teachers do their jobs because they want to be teachers, not for the holidays. 8 weeks holiday means nothing if you don't love your job. You couldn't do your job proficiently if you did it only for the holidays. Believe me, the holidays are well deserved when you consider you are dealing with THIRTY children of varying abilty 5 days a week ,not just to educate them in 12 different subject areas (in a 25 hour week, like to see you make that fit) but to develop their emotional wellbeing, deal with learning difficulties, emotional disorders and difficult home lives. Thin you have a very cynical view of teachers in general which is ironic considering your lack of knowledge on the subject.


  • #68
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    dame wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

    Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.

    I'm a newly qualified teacher and I wasn't made aware of this. But yea, we do get a handy number in some rewards like travel tax back and a clothing allowance too (although I have no idea how to apply for these or seek info on it). I teach senior infants but I'm in school at 8:30 (latest) every morning and out at 3:30, I have a to stay until 2:30 but I'm not finished preparing til later. That's a 7 hour day. Although I'm only paid for under 6 hours. If I'm out sick my class will prob be split up or the principal will take them (not the end of the world). If out longer I think a sub gets a portion of your wage to pay for it, but I'm not sure on that...

    The government is promising 4000 new teachers and well, that many people don't want to apply for it so they might as well make it more appealing. God knows, I'm a psychcologist, nurse, parent, mediator, social welfare officer all rolled into one. I'm fekn knackered at the end of the day and I have 2 hours of lectures at night too (for honours degree). ON top of this, I'm doing my Dip and have MASSIVE folders and a HUGE workload.
    My sunday (DAY OFF) is spent typing up my weekly plans, my Friday is spent preparing them, as in looking through books and online. Do you think I get paid for my sunday or friday evening? NO. Mid terms and term breaks have at least one full weekend gone prepparing termlies, assessment, IEPS, MAKING RESOURCES, cuntas miosuil etc etc....

    Teachers also have to go to lectures and workshops in St. Pats and do online courses. Really, it's a job that you're NEVER finished training for. And it's not like we have a CHOICE as to whether there are long holidays or not, I'm sure you'd be whinging if the kids weren't getting holidays. And by the way, staff in my school also run a summer camp for the kids, a breakfast club and after school club because it's a band one disadvantaged school.

    But of course, we're totally lazy. I mean, I do nothing ALL day long....


  • #69
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    dame wrote: »
    No they just sit up at night instead wasting time on baords because they are super-humans who don't need any sleep before going into work the next day. :rolleyes: It must be a very stressful job.
    Well, I agree that reading your comments in this thread has been fairly much a waste of time, but for the record, I for one am not a primary / secondary techer, so whatever time I am on Boards is absolutely irrelevant to the argument.
    Commander Vimes wrote: »
    i always felt guilty about this so to alleviate some of the stress, i never did homework
    :D
    ItchyInside wrote: »
    ... but I strongly suspect you are just generalising and actually don't know what you are talking about.
    You think? :D


  • #70
    RuailleBuaille
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭RuailleBuaille


    Lil Kitten wrote: »
    I'm a newly qualified teacher and I wasn't made aware of this. But yea, we do get a handy number like travel tax back and a clothing allowance too. I teach senior infants but I'm in school at 8:30 every day and out at 3:30, I have a to stay until 2:30 but I'm not finished preparing til later. That's a 7 hour day. Although I'm only paid for under 6 hours.

    The government is promising 4000 new teachers and well, that many people don't want to apply for it so they might as well make it more appealing. God knows, I'm a psychcologist, nurse, parent, mediator, social welfare officer all rolled into one. I'm fekn knackered at the end of the day and I have 2 hours of lectures at night too. My sunday (DAY OFF) is spent typing up my weekly plans, my Friday is spent preparing them, as in looking through books and online. Do you think I get paid for my sunday or friday evening? NO. Mid terms and term breaks have at least one full weekend gone prepparing termlies, assessment, IEPS, cuntas miosuil etc etc....

    Teachers also have to go to lectures and workshops in St. Pats and do online courses. Really, it's a job that you're NEVER finished training for. And it's not like we have a CHOICE as to whether there are long holidays or not, I'm sure you'd be whinging if the kids weren't getting holidays. And by the way, staff in my school also run a summer camp for the kids, a breakfast club and after school club because it's a band one disadvantaged school.

    But of course, we're totally lazy. I mean, I do nothing ALL day long....

    Good point, well made. I'm proud to be a teacher and TBH justifying ourselves to somebody who owns their own business and spends hours on boards bitching about other professionals taking liberties is laughable. Keep up the good work Kitten!


  • #71
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    knird evol wrote: »
    Towards what end.

    So I can gauge their progress and identify who needs help, and so that I can confirm to myself that the children are learning what they need to know.


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  • #72
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,407 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    dame wrote: »
    No they just sit up at night instead wasting time on baords because they are super-humans who don't need any sleep before going into work the next day. :rolleyes: It must be a very stressful job.


    Dame, it seems that no matter what comment is made here that you have decided to construe it negatively. Grow up. If I choose to spend some of my free time on boards, that's my business. We could ask what you are doing wasting your time on boards. It should have nothing to do with anyone's profession


  • #73
    dame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭dame


    ItchyInside wrote: »
    I'm embarrassed for you, you have no idea what you are talking about. Course weeks MUST be done during the summer, it is not optional. It is about teacher development, improving ourselves and the level of help we can offer our students, not just to get course days.

    No courses during the summer are definitely NOT compulsory.


  • #74
    dame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭dame


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Dame, it seems that no matter what comment is made here that you have decided to construe it negatively. Grow up. If I choose to spend some of my free time on boards, that's my business. We could ask what you are doing wasting your time on boards. It should have nothing to do with anyone's profession
    :rolleyes:
    Grow up yourself rainbowtrout. I was simply replying humorously to a comment you made.


  • #75
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,407 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    dame wrote: »
    Well, teachers here have said that they cannot correct work during free classes because they are spent supervising classes for other teachers who are absent. Must be a lot of absenteeism among teachers where you folks work!


    Again another point that you have twisted. There isn't a lot of absenteeism, but if teachers are required to bring students to football matches, musical rehearsals, on educational tours, someone must look after their other classes. It's not all due to absenteeism.

    Yes, I agree actually, the DES should be only training people for jobs that actually exist. That's why there are so many PE teachers around the country doing the Hibernia course in order to become Primary teachers instead. That's obviously not what they'd really like to be doing.


    That's like saying all college courses that do not provide 100% employment to their graduates should be scrapped. There wouldn't be many courses left if that was the case. A number of my current leaving certs are obsessed with doing forensic science in college, thanks to CSI. There aren't (m)any jobs in it. Should I tell them not to bother and should those courses be scrapped as well. Are philosophy degrees pointless as there are no obvious jobs in that area? The DES does not train teachers, it employs them, colleges train teachers and the more students they have on their courses, the more funding they get.


  • #76
    dame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭dame


    Lil Kitten wrote: »
    I'm a newly qualified teacher and I wasn't made aware of this. But yea, we do get a handy number in some rewards like travel tax back and a clothing allowance too (although I have no idea how to apply for these or seek info on it). I teach senior infants but I'm in school at 8:30 (latest) every morning and out at 3:30, I have a to stay until 2:30 but I'm not finished preparing til later. That's a 7 hour day. Although I'm only paid for under 6 hours. If I'm out sick my class will prob be split up or the principal will take them (not the end of the world). If out longer I think a sub gets a portion of your wage to pay for it, but I'm not sure on that...

    The government is promising 4000 new teachers and well, that many people don't want to apply for it so they might as well make it more appealing. God knows, I'm a psychcologist, nurse, parent, mediator, social welfare officer all rolled into one. I'm fekn knackered at the end of the day and I have 2 hours of lectures at night too (for honours degree). ON top of this, I'm doing my Dip and have MASSIVE folders and a HUGE workload.
    My sunday (DAY OFF) is spent typing up my weekly plans, my Friday is spent preparing them, as in looking through books and online. Do you think I get paid for my sunday or friday evening? NO. Mid terms and term breaks have at least one full weekend gone prepparing termlies, assessment, IEPS, MAKING RESOURCES, cuntas miosuil etc etc....

    Teachers also have to go to lectures and workshops in St. Pats and do online courses. Really, it's a job that you're NEVER finished training for. And it's not like we have a CHOICE as to whether there are long holidays or not, I'm sure you'd be whinging if the kids weren't getting holidays. And by the way, staff in my school also run a summer camp for the kids, a breakfast club and after school club because it's a band one disadvantaged school.

    But of course, we're totally lazy. I mean, I do nothing ALL day long....

    Oh hi there Lil Kitten, I remember you ranting about being a teacher and all the vast experience you had of sorting out all their personal problems and making a huge difference in their lives (while you were still a student). [If anyone's interested then you can trawl through the extremely long Childfree thread in After Hours to see what a fool of herself Lil Kitten made with her bragging]. You're a prime example of the kind of exaggeration I was expecting here. How did all your teaching disadvantaged kids for that whole week in Africa this summer go?


  • #77
    dame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭dame


    How long does it actually take to correct the same thing 30 times? I mean, let's say there are 30 copybooks, all with the same set of sums (about 20) in them. It's not rocket science. After the first two you'll know the answers off by heart and it's a simple tick. I'm just throwing this in for arguments sake but really, I can't see correcting be that hard (at least not for the basics in primary school, 30 essays of a few foolscap pages each would obviously take longer but there wouldn't be an essay every day).


  • #78
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    dame wrote: »
    Oh hi there Lil Kitten, I remember you ranting about being a teacher and all the vast experience you had of sorting out all their personal problems and making a huge difference in their lives (while you were still a student). [If anyone's interested then you can trawl through the extremely long Childfree thread in After Hours to see what a fool of herself Lil Kitten made with her bragging]. You're a prime example of the kind of exaggeration I was expecting here. How did all your teaching disadvantaged kids for that whole week in Africa this summer go?
    Dear ... sweet ... suffering ... Jebus!

    No comment! Just ... NO ... FARKING ... COMMENT!!1!


  • #79
    dame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭dame


    Trotter wrote: »
    Dame.. If you're an engineer, would you think I was an idiot if I said most engineers are only half qualified and are doing dodgy work off the back of a now failing construction industry?

    You'd be right to think thats what I am, because I'd be generalising about something I know nothing about. I know and have spent time with plenty of engineers. Does that mean I know enough to judge their abilities and assess their daily workload? No. It doesn't.

    You're right, you would be generalising and in fact you'd be completely guessing. I have nothing to do with the construction industry (except that I lve in a house that someone built).

    By the way, I never said teachers were only half qualified. You made that bit up.


  • #80
    beanyb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭beanyb


    dame wrote: »
    How long does it actually take to correct the same thing 30 times? I mean, let's say there are 30 copybooks, all with the same set of sums (about 20) in them. It's not rocket science. After the first two you'll know the answers off by heart and it's a simple tick. I'm just throwing this in for arguments sake but really, I can't see correcting be that hard (at least not for the basics in primary school, 30 essays of a few foolscap pages each would obviously take longer but there wouldn't be an essay every day).

    It actually takes a while. I'm not a teacher, but I did work experience in 4th year in a primary school and got to correct quite a bit. It's also the most boring and repetitive thing I've ever done, and I've done many boring, repetitive jobs. And you'll always have more than one exercise a day to correct, so correcting taking a couple of hours everyday would be pretty normal.

    Plus, there's more to just putting a tick or an X beside things. You have to figure out where the mistake was made so that you can explain it to the child, and this becomes a much longer process as the children get older and the classes get more advanced.


  • #81
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    I don't have anything against teachers in general whatsoever, and it amazes me that anyone can.

    However I do think there are some problems with the organization of the teaching profession that can probably give rise to laziness among a proportion of their numbers.
    One of these problems is the lack of performance testing. Now I know this goes on to a certain extent, but it doesn't seem to be taken very seriously at all.

    Teachers, and other publicly funded state employees need to be subject to performance testing, and under-performers should lose their jobs.


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  • #82
    Mrs. MacGyver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    dame wrote: »
    Your friend must be doing her Dip year then. Teachers usually give up all those hours of prep every evening once they're over that first year. Ask any teacher (who has been qualified a few years) if you can see their lesson plans and they won't have many recent ones (or any at all) to show you.

    When i was fully qualified i still worked my ass off till eight or nine each evening - i certainly wasn't lazy. In fact i left the profession due to stress! I never seemed to have free time to have a private life.

    I think they deserve the week off, i mean hopefully you only get married once! :)


  • #83
    Mrs. MacGyver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Mrs. MacGyver


    InFront wrote: »
    I don't have anything against teachers in general whatsoever, and it amazes me that anyone can.

    However I do think there are some problems with the organization of the teaching profession that can probably give rise to laziness among a proportion of their numbers.
    One of these problems is the lack of performance testing. Now I know this goes on to a certain extent, but it doesn't seem to be taken very seriously at all.

    Teachers, and other publicly funded state employees need to be subject to performance testing, and under-performers should lose their jobs.

    Does the teaching council look at this? (just wondering as out of teaching 4 years and have no clue). I agree that accountability is very NB (now i'm beginning to sound way too boring for this thread so i'll stop now to give ye peace!) :)


  • #84
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    InFront wrote: »
    However I do think there are some problems with the organization of the teaching profession that can probably give rise to laziness among a proportion of their numbers.
    Certainly, I don't think anyone here (teachers or non-teachers) would argue that all teachers are perfect / wonderful / saints! As in any profession, there are some who are round pegs in square holes, and some who are just lazy time-servers who get away with as much as they can. Luckily, as yet these are not that common, I believe anyway.

    One of my fears is that the increasing discipline problems in schools from an increasing number of under-socialised, undisciplined and ill-mannered children (not to mention their under-socialised, undisciplined and ill-mannered parents!), and the constant teacher-bashing which seems to be an increasing feature of our commodified and respectless society will discourage the best people from going into teaching ... leaving the field to those who are prepared to take every short-cut, and do as little as possible except plan their holidays. :rolleyes:
    InFront wrote: »
    One of these problems is the lack of performance testing. Now I know this goes on to a certain extent, but it doesn't seem to be taken very seriously at all.

    Teachers, and other publicly funded state employees need to be subject to performance testing, and under-performers should lose their jobs.
    I would have absolutely no problem with your point in principle ... the problem, which no-one seems to have adequately solved as yet, is in the practical application of this.

    To evaluate performance with any degree of consistency and fairness, criteria must be set in place, and a measurement instrument of some sort must be used. This is where the fun starts! What criteria, what instrument? Criteria which lend themselves to straightforward quantitative analysis are easy ... but do such criteria really measure the true worth of a teacher?

    If we can say about a teacher: "Her students achieved a 100% pass rate at Leaving Cert, 75% got Honours, and 25% got A grades", does this mean that we have identified a good teacher? It's probably a start in most cases, but what if those results are achieved by a teacher who is extremely sarcastic, and well-nigh verbally bullies her students into working hard and doing well, leaving them with a hatred of the subject itself, and probably self-esteem issues to boot, are we still talking about a "good" teacher? I doubt if any of us would answer "yes" ... I hope not anyway!

    And then consider for a moment problems of comparability: which is the better teacher, the teacher who manages to get all her class through pass Junior Cert English in an inner-city school fraught with social problems, truancy and absenteeism, discipline problems, substance abuse, etc., or the teacher in Newbridge College or Mount Anville whose class all achieve a B minimum on the Honours English paper?

    If we look at more qualitative measures of a good teacher, and I don't see how we cannot, these are by their nature far more difficult to measure. How exactly does one measure, accurately, consistently and fairly, a teacher's committment to her students; the quality of her interaction with them; her impact on their social and personal development, on their self-esteem and self-efficacy? Many instruments have been devised and tested, but very few have proven to be of much value, let alone adequate to the brief.

    How do we adequately measure and compare committment to extra-curricular activities?

    We must also remember that as soon as you set specific criteria, these affect the behaviour of the person to be measured. If the percentage of students in a class who achieve A grades is to be measured, for example, isn't it likely that even good teachers will subconsciously concentrate more on the high achievers to the disadvantage of those slogging away to achieve a C?

    This is a very simplistic and superficial attempt to touch on some at least of the issues involved, InFront, but I'm sure you will see the point I'm trying to make.


  • #85
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    If we look at more qualitative measures of a good teacher, and I don't see how we cannot, these are by their nature far more difficult to measure.
    I think it's a bit more straightforward than you suggest. We already have assessments for trainee teachers and for working teachers, why not upgrade these sorts of assessments to decide whether or not a teacher can continue teach or must go back into training, or change jobs?

    Are you saying that the assessments that teachers go through to complete their training cannot be said to be accurate indications of quality? Of course one can assess teaching ability, it is a common feature of teacher training, it needs to be expanded upon and rolled out to all of those in the profession.
    Teaching is not about having a job for life (nor did you suggest that), it's about educating the next generation of employees.
    Even the worst of teachers have a degree under their belts, they can, and should, work in positions of less importance


  • #86
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    We had an alcoholic teacher in secondary school.
    I used to deliberately get thrown out of German because I knew I would be put in his media studies class and be given the task of camera man.

    Cheers, Gerry.


  • #87
    projectmayhem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,480 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    Terry wrote: »
    We had an alcoholic teacher in secondary school.
    I used to deliberately get thrown out of German because I knew I would be put in his media studies class and be given the task of camera man.

    Cheers, Gerry.

    we had something similar... except it was maths. he was crazy. always smoking throughout the day to get himself through it. but he beat maths into us. best maths teacher i think i could have ever had, ironically.

    having said that, i did once see him be carried (literally) out of the school by other teachers, because he was THAT locked on the last week of the year.


  • #88
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    dame wrote: »
    Oh hi there Lil Kitten, I remember you ranting about being a teacher and all the vast experience you had of sorting out all their personal problems and making a huge difference in their lives (while you were still a student). [If anyone's interested then you can trawl through the extremely long Childfree thread in After Hours to see what a fool of herself Lil Kitten made with her bragging]. You're a prime example of the kind of exaggeration I was expecting here. How did all your teaching disadvantaged kids for that whole week in Africa this summer go?
    Infraction given.
    Attack the post, not the poster.

    Some of the rest of you should take note too.


  • #89
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    InFront wrote: »
    I think it's a bit more straightforward than you suggest.
    Probably ... it's not that easy to cover all aspects of an issue in depth in a post on Boards, and I'll admit to leaning somewhat to one side of the issue to make my point.
    InFront wrote: »
    We already have assessments for trainee teachers and for working teachers, why not upgrade these sorts of assessments to decide whether or not a teacher can continue teach or must go back into training, or change jobs?
    Again, I would go a certain distance with you on the principle, but I have less confidence in the existing assessment methods than you seem to have.
    InFront wrote: »
    Are you saying that the assessments that teachers go through to complete their training cannot be said to be accurate indications of quality?
    I wouldn't put it so strongly, but I would have serious doubts about their infallibility, certainly, as would many of those who both administer them and undergo them. In particular, very few would claim that they assess the full range or depth of understanding, skills and attitudes needed to be an excellent teacher.

    I know people who have come out of college with extremely good grades in both their initial degree and their teaching diploma (or in their B.Ed., in the case of primary teachers) and who have still made at best mediocre teachers, despite their best efforts. On the other hand, the best teacher I had myself as a student (and I had some damn good ones!) was quite prepared to admit that he had struggled to achieve even an honours grade in his B.Sc., and struggled even more with the HDE. He was a wonderful teacher though ... a terrific communicator; empathic and interested in his students; had a quirky sense of humour which he used to great effect to diffuse any unruliness ... which seldom occurred anyway, given his ability to engage a class; and above all, could target his teaching precisely at the level needed by each group, rather than aiming over their heads, one of the most common faults of the teacher with the "First Class Honours in Everything". Yet as the standard measurements went (i.e. his bare pass result in his teaching diploma assessment) he would have been categorised as "barely adequate" to teach, and in fact only got a permanent job in our school after a good few years doing sub and proving himself in real life.
    InFront wrote: »
    Of course one can assess teaching ability ...
    Up to a point, imho.
    InFront wrote: »
    Teaching is not about having a job for life (nor did you suggest that)
    No, indeed I did not, nor would I ever suggest it.
    InFront wrote: »
    it's about educating the next generation of employees.
    And ... OUCH, tbh! Now here I think we diverge fairly significantly. In my view, initial education should be about educating the person; fostering logical and critical thinking and analytical skills; fostering the development of a well-rounded person; educating, if you like, the next generation of citizens / neighbours / parents / etc. ... and, certainly, providing them with a good basic education in the 3 Rs and other appropriate curriculum areas. However, one can train for employment at any age, and indeed, in to-day's world, the majority of people will probably do so several times over; one can only truely educate the maturing individual once in life.


  • #90
    Catari Jaguar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    InFront wrote: »
    Teaching is..... about educating the next generation of employees.

    No no no!

    Open your mind. Look around! Don't be ignorant of the world around you! Find a passion, find yourself, know yourself and your gifts! Change the world and if you can't, at least explore what it has to offer. What do you want to do? Find it and do it! Question everything. Don't be some spoonfed brainwashed tool of the government or society...

    That's my (idealistic) view of education. :o

    And as for schooling, well, some children might need to know quadratic equations, some might just need to know how to feed and wash themselves or the difference between right and wrong.

    Some schools are trying to create honour students, the doctors of tomorrow.

    Other schools just want to keep their students away from drugs and jail.

    There's more to education than people think.


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  • #91
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    dame wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    What do you think of the fact that teachers are entitled to a week off for their wedding? I'm not joking, if a teacher gets married during the school year they are entitled to the week off, paid. Is this not taking the piss?

    Also, I know of a teacher who took a week off to get laser eye treatment. Shouldn't she just have done this during the summer, or the Halloween week off, or waited until the three weeks off at Christmas, or even the Easter holidays??? (Some) Teachers are the laziest people in Ireland! They seem to have the weakest work ethic and strongest sense of entitlement I have ever come across outside of an umemployed person who has no intention of looking for work, ever.
    You changed your tune, Dame! You posted this a while back...


This discussion has been closed.
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