Irish Patriotism

Corega · 06-08-2002 02:12PM

That national anthem thing is such a load of cack, "republican" night clubs never do that up north, except for some drunk screaming his head off at the end of the night

I do know it, i do know who the first president was.............../me looks up google, DeVelera btw, who was an ***hole btw. I would like to think I'm patriotic, my grand-father cycled around Dublin with machine-gun parts for the 'ra during the rising. I am proud of this country, I am not proud of the blood-shed that went on to achieve this country and I am not proud of the government we have. That is all the clever things I can think of at the moment. Not even clever tbh. :rolleyes:

stevoslice · 06-08-2002 02:29PM

I do know it, i do know who the first president was.............../me looks up google, DeVelera btw

amm, methinks twas one Douglas Hyde.

SheroN · 06-08-2002 02:34PM

i thought douglas hyde was the first president?

gurramok · 06-08-2002 02:46PM

Originally posted by Slutmonkey57b
People who live in the mainland UK could not give half of a flying toss about the constituionality, legal ownership or otherwise of northern ireland.

Is Ireland some tiny offshore island or something ? !!

seamus · 06-08-2002 02:54PM

Originally posted by Kappar
How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

In Irish only.

How many people here, if the seen someone flying the Irish flag outside their house would say ‘Look at that lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

I reckon stuff like this is meaningless inside the country. "Oh, I'm in Ireland? I almost forgot" :rolleyes: I always associate it with scumbags as they seem to have a real anti-british, pro-IRA attitude. The irony of showing defiance by flying an Irish flag in Ireland is lost on them.

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

Nope, but I'd be interested in giving a read at some point.

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state? Who the first president was, etc?

I literally know the basics.

I haven't heard any pubs play the national anthem at the end of the night in a long time. Maybe it's just the pubs I go to. Personally I enjoy Bruxelles playing the theme from fraggle rock far more than the Irish anthem, but it is good to see when we're watching matches that people shut up and/or join in. I don't see any relevance for playing it at the end of a night anyway.

Corega - I don't agree. The bloodshed was a kind of 'fight fire with fire' thing. Pretty much every other avenue was closed or had been exhausted. Even British nobles couldn't use their influence to help the Irish free themselves - Wolfe Tone for example. They had nothing to do but fight. No-one died when we declared ourselves a Republic either - which was 33 years after the Easter Rising. Governments in other countries have been established after far bloodier campaigns - the USA as a prime example.

As for NI - I don't think many Irish or British would be too concerned if we cut them loose and let them become a state all of their own. The only people who would complain are the residents (mostly).

Corega · 06-08-2002 03:02PM

I blame google and excessive drinking to be honest, yes in fact the first president was Douglas Hyde

Fidelis · 06-08-2002 07:39PM

I walked around London, draped in the tri-colour, last Saturday night. I got some miffed looks but no verbal abuse whatsoever. I was mildly impressed at the civility of it all!

mike65 · 06-08-2002 10:22PM

Originally posted by Fidelis
I walked around London, draped in the tri-colour, last Saturday night. I got some miffed looks but no verbal abuse whatsoever. I was mildly impressed at the civility of it all!

Damn! As a Brit I was hoping you got a damn good pasting!

I wonder what would happpen if I tried the reverse here...?

Mike.

Slutmonkey57b · 07-08-2002 08:50AM

Posted by Iceman:

When stones are thrown by kids at houses of people in a highly unionist area it gets blasted all over the news and that it must be a republican plot and that the ceasefire is over. When a pipebomb gets thrown into the house of a catholic with no political links, it gets classed as probably kids having fun.

I've never heard pipe bomb throwing described on the news by anyone as "kids having fun".

You'd easily give your hearts to all the victims of other countries - funny how you're blind to the victims in your own country. And I don't accept that you see N.I. as another country because it's not. It's one island!! Yes it has a border and it is split into a republic but it's 1 island. Deal with the problems on your own front door (Or even if you want to call us your neighbours) before you throw your hearts out to the poor victims in other countries!!!

Northern Ireland isn't another country because it's on the same island? Then I suppose France and China are the same country because they're also on the same island, albeit a large one? Spain and Portugal are the same country, are they? Rubbish. Even the Irish constitution says N.I. is a different country.Nobody in the south is blind to the suffering of catholics in the north - but neither are they perpared to accept that that suffering should be dealt out in kind to people totally unconnected with the north, which is what both sides of the conflict tend to do.
Nor are they (and particularly I) prepared to be TOLD what their country is, or what it should be, or what its "real" borders are, or who should be allowed in it. Should unionists up north be allowed to dictate that same position to the other residents? No.

Yet, speak out against this, or fail to support it, and again you run the risk of being "not patriotic". You're "selling out" your fellow countrymen by not supporting nationalist or unionist agenda. Again Patriotism is worn under the yoke of opression. You will support your country in this manner or else... you are not allowed to think <whatever> because it's not "patriotic". Rubbish.

And pyjamaMan, point well made. I've over-emphasised your own point needlessly.

JarJar bink · 16-08-2002 10:36PM

How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

Yes, I know it.

How many people here, if the seen someone flying the Irish flag outside their house would say ‘Look at that lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

I would think they've got balls as some might find it offensive and phone the police.

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

I do, but my ex-girlfriend gave it to me, she insisted I study it ( She was a bit strange).

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state?

A little and I hope to learn more, especially on things like Henry's reign, the Famine, Slavery....

But it seems learning this stuff today doesn't help you understand history instead it makes you an extreemist

Crash · 17-08-2002 01:11AM

How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

Yup, know the whole thing. got it drilled into me in primary

How many people here, if the seen someone flying the Irish flag outside their house would say ‘Look at that lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

No, but it'd get kinda irritating after a while if it was constantly in my line of sight after a while

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

Nope

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state? Who the first president was, etc?

Yes, but possibly only cus i've just finished the JC, which is probably why.

sceptre · 17-08-2002 12:47PM

Originally posted by mike65
I wonder what would happpen if I tried the reverse here...?

Four words.

Not a good idea

Some yob would probably interpret it as an invitation to treat.

sceptre · 17-08-2002 12:55PM

Originally posted by Kappar
How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

Yup. Doesn't make me any more patriotic as I complain about the lyrics (and the four verses are as bad)

How many people here, if the seen someone flying the Irish flag outside their house would say ‘Look at that lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

Never got too caustic about people flying the Vatican flag outside their houses (go on - you all remember) so probably wouldn't even notice. Unless it was Belfast. Then I'd be taking photos and coming back later to get myself on the news.

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

Yup.

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state? Who the first president was, etc?

Yup.

Thing is, answers above don't say that I'm patriotic. I know the words to the US anthem too, have a copy of their constitution, couldn't give a damn about some redneck putting a spangled banner on his bumper and can probably name all the US dates and presidents as well. Ditto with the UK (no copy of the constitution for obvious reasons) - but I do have Magna Carta and the 1689 Bill of Rights

Originally posted by ][cEMAN**

And I don't accept that you see N.I. as another country because it's not. It's one island!! Yes it has a border and it is split into a republic but it's 1 island.

I could never quite understand the rationale behind the Ri Ra telling us that Ireland had to be one State as an island was "indivisible" while still supporting the right of the Scots and the Basques to independence and self determination on a majority basis. If you can reconcile this using somewhere between one and two thousand words I'd be greatly obliged. If anyone can, I'd be ever so grateful.:D

DadaKopf · 17-08-2002 12:59PM

How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

I used to but let it slip with my Irish.

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

I own about four of five of them.

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state?

Yes. It's very important for us not to forget how we got here. Out attitudes toward it, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter.

TacT · 17-08-2002 02:46PM

I know the national anthem in Irish because it was rammed down my throat untill I could sing it and no longer had to learn the words off by heart during my childhood. Oh the joys of conditioning :rolleyes:

I would not fly the flag outside my house and I think people who do it for the world cup etc, well and fine but people who have it there 24/7 are excessive and obsessive and probably spend more time looking at the past than the present and future.

Not personally but we have one in the house but I'll be buggered if I'm gonna look at it unless I'm going to study law or something similar.

I know Douglas Hyde was our first president thanks to this thread.

Wasn't there something about patriotism somewhere here :rolleyes:

DadaKopf · 17-08-2002 03:03PM

I know Douglas Hyde was our first president thanks to this thread.

There's a debate raging in the papers as to whether he really was! But it's all academic. Nevertheless, the truth does matter.

TacT · 17-08-2002 04:03PM

but it hurts soooo much

/me wipes a tear from his eye

BJJ · 09-09-2002 05:46PM

‘Look at that TERRORIST lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

The Corinthian · 09-09-2002 06:05PM

Originally posted by Kappar
How many people here know the National Anthem, by heart?

Yes.

How many people here, if the seen someone flying the Irish flag outside their house would say ‘Look at that lunatic’s house, he’s flying the flag and it’s not even the world cup’?

No. I'm not American.

How many people own a copy of the constitution?

Yes.

How many people know the basics of Irish history, When Ireland became a republic, When Ireland became a free state? Who the first president was, etc?

Yes.

Trojan · 09-09-2002 11:29PM

So, I guess I'm not cool because I do consider myself patriotic? Because I know Amhran Na bhFiann? You guys think I'm a terrorist too, because I own an Irish flag?

This thread reminds me of an anti-racism ad run during the soccer world cup: "Colour is not an issue in The Green Army".

The small-minded opinions as expressed by the patriotism critics here are the antithesis of what they claim to believe in - open-mindedness and acceptance in particular.

I don't have a constitution, but I do have a proclaimation. I don't normally fly my flag, but don't consider myself an IRA supporter if I do (I abhor violence and totally disagree with them). I am not proud of my government (bunch of muppets), but I am proud of my national team (don't stand near me in Lansdowne during the 6 nations, you'll be deafened). I am damn proud to be Irish.

It seems to be in vogue to be cynical about such things as pride in your country. Shame.

Al.

PS My gf is English. Go ponder that one. Muppets.

Trojan · 09-09-2002 11:44PM

Originally posted by Trojan

bleh

And just in case any of you muppets missed the obvious point of my post, I thought I'd explain it explicitly, so as to avoid confusing your tiny little minds[1].

THE POINT:
It is possible to be patriotic, without needing to resort to hatred for your countries historic adversaries. You could even (*shock*) like some of them.
/THE POINT.

I hope you didn't miss my point. In case you can't find it, look for the words "THE POINT" above).
Al.

1. Thanks Cartman.

Helix · 10-09-2002 02:14AM

personally i dont understand patriotism, after all we all live on the same planet surely thats more important than borders

po0k · 10-09-2002 12:45PM

Anthem: Sort of. Grab the program at any GAA match and it'll be on it.

Flag: I think it's a mark of disrespect when people have the flag hanging out of their windows held on only by closing the window on it.
It's the single greatest symbol of our modern nation identity (as opposed to the shamrockerie pushed like crack to tourists).
Afaik it's actually illegal to have the flag on display in such a manner.
It should be on a flag pole, raised to the top, held tight. it should not be allowed to blow out on the breeze (like a sail).
If it is worn and tatty it should be taken down, disposed of in a respectful manner (there are guidelines for this too) and replaced with a new one.
While I wasn't terriblely riled by the guinness ad campaign, i thought it was a bit of a shameless cash in on their part.
Whatever about people having one in their house, it's a (thankfully) free country (of sorts).
In answer to the question, no i don't own one.

Constitution: I think we ahve one in the house.
Must buy my own. Library I assume?

History: I have a decent working knowledge of our history, but I've never been that interested. My opinion throughout school was that our history was a repitition of how we fnucked our selves over through petty internal squabbles etc. and we continue to do so (flotation of eircom, bertie/CJ etc.).

Mike66 · 27-09-2002 08:33PM

It's dead

Funky · 27-09-2002 08:53PM

1. Yeah (only in irish , both verses though)

2. I wouldnt call the person a lunatic , but i wouldnt do it myself

3. Nope

4. Ah yeah i'd know the basics

Gearoid · 27-09-2002 10:03PM

Firstly, I think one of the questions should have been, "What is your opinion of the Irish Language?"
Secondly, i'd like to point out to the patriotism-bashers that you don't know what it means, It means loving your country, not hating every1 elses. therefore, i think it's fine to be patriotic and it's as revelant now as it ever was.
slán go fóill.

embee · 27-09-2002 10:37PM

I know the National Anthem off by heart.

I would hang a tricolour from my house if I owned a house.

Im pretty well read on the Constitution.

I know quite a bit about Irish History.

Why though, havent you asked if anyone can speak fluent Gaeilge? Surely its a patriotic thing too to do that. I was brought up with Gaeilge as my first language and had to learn English when I went to school. Its a real shame that no one speaks it anymore.

bugler · 27-09-2002 11:43PM

Having read all this, I still don't see any reason for me to "love" my country. I'm not trying to draw a negative reaction here, but the idea of loving the random patch of land you were born into and other peoples achievements while on this land seems a bit absurd to me.

Patriotism is fine by me if it means striving to make the country you were born into a more tolerant and pleasant place for all concerned. However, it is usually a hijacked negative factor. What was the last positive instance of patriotism in Ireland? All too often patriotism means abstaining from the process of thinking for oneself.

pertinax · 28-09-2002 12:45AM

My level of patrotism varies with my mood, its somewhat tempered by the crookery that gos on in this country.
Land is one part of it but theres cultrue, history and language. Perhaps they are all part of the same thing.

Loving other peoples achievments has a purpose in encouraging yourself to achieve. I believe Patriotism has another purpose besides making the country more tolerant and plesant. It should make help other countries to become more tolerant and plesant.

I believe in defending my country, not our politicians or our tv3 presenters of course.
But ill defend it from those who are surpirsed how well dressed we are, and those who believe we have no right to exist as an independant country. That defending makes up part of my patriotism.

What was the last positive instance of patriotism in Ireland?

Maybe it was 1948 but i dont think thats a reason to invalidate patriotism. We might need it again.

Irish Patriotism

Comments