Polish as official 3rd language

Sponge Bob · 19-10-2007 05:38PM

eo980 wrote: »

Rightyo.... you're just demonstrating that your an eejit.

Na h-abair sin le ScoobyDoo arís .

Kintarō Hattori · 19-10-2007 05:39PM

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

I think, eo980, Bob is saying that he doesn't care about your question and you answered your own question indirectly in this post above.

He is intentionally being rude actually, and he's having fun with it.

Thanks Scooby, but I've nothing more to say to Bob or in relation to anything Bob has to say. He's acting like a childish teenager. And as you pointed out, he is indeed being rude and I've lost interest in any meaningful debate with him.

An Citeog · 19-10-2007 05:44PM

Múinteoir wrote: »

Let's put the myth of 'compulsion/choice' to bed, people. Language immersion is the only way to properly learn any language. Whether it is compulsory or not has feck all to do with it.

I agree 100% with this. I never had any interest in learning the Irish language, mainly because of poor teachers and the general way it was drilled into us. I really regret that now and if I could do it all over again I'd make a lot of changes. Language immersion is definitely the only way to learn a language, be that in the gaeltacht or in any foreign country. It can be supported by work in a classroom to give you a grammatical understanding but everyday interaction is the only way to truly learn.

Sponge Bob · 19-10-2007 05:45PM

eo980 wrote: »

Thanks Scooby, but I've nothing more to say to Bob or in relation to anything Bob has to say. He's acting like a childish teenager. And as you pointed out, he is indeed being rude and I've lost interest in any meaningful debate with him.

Níl mórán seachas díoscán fada aineolais ag sceitheadh amach do thóinse faraor !

....agus bhíos beagán mímhuinte don chéad uair ansin Scooby ach ní dhéanfás aon cheartúchán ar aon aistriúchán a thiocfas uait má mian leat tabhairt faoi cheann.

Múinteoir · 19-10-2007 05:46PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

TPIMTAG

Agus muid ar fad ag plé oiriúinacht an triú teanga náisiúnta seo...mar dhea.

Nach bhfeicfeann tú an fánacht a bhaineann leis an rud ar fad ....no fiú rúinne beag íoróin .....mar a fheicimse .

Dár liomsa ní ghetto í an suoímh seo ina bhfuil codanna feiliúnacha réamh-áirithe don Ghaeilge .

There such a thing as recognising the reality of a situation, rather than trying to act purely on the basis of how you think things should be. You don't like the fact that there is a limited outlet for speaking Irish here, or that you feel that it's ghettoised here and that's fine. But that doesn't change the fact that it's true. And insisting on speaking Irish to people who don't understand it makes you look deluded at best and downright rude at worst. It reminds me of the Gaeilgeoir character on that comedy sketch show 'Stew', who let's a man drown because he won't scream to him for help in Irish! (there a clip of one of his sketches on youtube, but I can'f find it anywhere. Anybody?)

The thing is, there is a compromise situation that could avoid the ghettosation of Irish as you see it on these boards, whereby you post bi-lingually in Irish then in English underneight. But you seem too pig-headed about the issue to meet other people half way. You're just coming across as a ass and what's worse, you're getting all other Irish speakers tarred with the same brush by doing so.

Seriously, ask yourself, are you achieving anything by insisting on speaking Irish only to a bulk of people who don't understand it? Do you honestly thing they're going to have a Pentecostal conversion to fluency in the language because of it? No they're not. They just leave this place thinking that Irish speakers are pompous idiots.

Red Alert · 19-10-2007 05:47PM

Look at the number of languages in the leaving cert - now why couldn't Polish be there too? Some people actually have no interest in say going to spain but have an interest in visiting eastern europe and vice versa.

Primary schools is another matter. If any language is taught there it should be french or german or spanish - i.e. one of the main european languages which are also a handy tool if you're in south america.

Irish has an odd position. At both primary and second level we are teaching it as though it's a vernacularly used language which it isn't. The emphasis should be on one thing - oral and later on functional writing. What use is knowing a **** load of poetry in a language you can't ring for a pizza in? I'd wager a lot of LC students couldn't conduct business in Irish in one of the government departments like motor tax say. So Irish is doing badly not only because it's little use outside of ireland but also because it's being taught in a way that signs its death warrant.

I had a polish girlfriend for a couple of months and she had a very good command of the english language. Though a couple of her friends didn't but I think they were all going to english classes at their own expense. She even had a couple of words of irish when she went home.

Scoobydoobydoo · 19-10-2007 05:47PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Sin é a dúirt mé .

Ach cén chaoi ar féidir linne teanga nua oifigiúil a phlé anseo nuair atá péire againn cheana féin ???????

Mar a deir (dúirt is dócha :rolleyes:) lucht na Laidine, Reductio Ad Absurdum

Talk about indireach, why do you dance around with words when you speak Irish? Yes, of course we already have two, so why don't you ple as Bearla le daoine nach bhfuil aon Gaeilge acu????
What do you mean how? Are you unable to debate in English all of a sudden, or are you being rude, or just showing off? Otherwise, what is the point of your posting in Irish? And now, Latin too?!!!:rolleyes:

An Citeog · 19-10-2007 05:50PM

projectmayhem wrote: »

maybe inform the Polish that this is Ireland, our primary language is English and we have our own culture etc.

if I went to live in germany, before doing so i'd take a course in german to get me by. why in the name of god should an entire society change to have a 3rd language, new schooling etc. etc. because a minority have moved in, so to speak?

we'll get to an american type situation where muslims protest at the sight of a christmas tree.

if you want to speak polish, go to poland.. don't try and change an entire country to suit your own selfish needs.

I agree with your sentiments but unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't. I've studied in Germany and am currently studying in Spain and a lot of people just can't be arsed learning the language. If I wanted, I could have taken every course in English and that's exactly what a lot of other students do. Although I'm going completely off topic, the importance of learning languages worldwide other than English has fallen significantly and it's only going to get worse.

Sponge Bob · 19-10-2007 05:50PM

Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »

Talk about indireach, why do you dance around with words when you speak Irish? Yes, of course we already have two, so why don't you ple as Bearla le daoine nach bhfuil aon Gaeilge acu????

Mar go bhfuil iarsma beag acu ar fad , ach níl aon Phólanais acu agus is léir sin domsa !!

DonJose · 19-10-2007 05:51PM

An Citeog wrote: »

I agree 100% with this. I never had any interest in learning the Irish language, mainly because of poor teachers and the general way it was drilled into us.

Why waste a class on Irish, dead language, when you could learn a language you can actually use. My daughter was born abroad and she's started secondary this year, shes already bilingual, English/Spanish, and she doesn't have to learn Irish in secondary. French is compulsory and she choose German as an option. During Irish class she studies German or French.

monkey tennis · 19-10-2007 05:55PM

Hmm, should we round up the resources and make 4,000,000 or so Irish people learn Polish, or make 250,000 Polish people learn English.... tough choice.

Red Alert wrote: »

Look at the number of languages in the leaving cert - now why couldn't Polish be there too?

I'd certainly support the option of learning Polish in school (and tbh, I'd be surprised if it's not already there), but to have it as an official language of the state (as per the original topic of discussion), and to be forced on the natives, is bananas.

OT: To various mongos giving out about people using one of our current official national languages: Noone's forcing you to read it (even if you could). You don't hear the gaeilgeoirí giving out about you typing in English, do you?

Múinteoir wrote: »

you're getting all other Irish speakers tarred with the same brush by doing so

If anyone is going to tar all Irish speakers with the same brush due to the actions of one, then they're the idiot. Dunno how Sponge Bob feels, but personally, I wouldn't be too concerned with what an idiot thought of me.

An Citeog · 19-10-2007 06:03PM

DonJose wrote: »

Why waste a class on Irish, dead language, when you could learn a language you can actually use. My daughter was born abroad and she's started secondary this year, shes already bilingual, English/Spanish, and she doesn't have to learn Irish in secondary. French is compulsory and she choose German as an option. During Irish class she studies German or French.

Why not do both? I'm fluent in both German and Spanish but I'm still disappointed that my Irish isn't as good as it should be. The best comparison I can make is with Catalan (which I'm in the process of learning). This language could easily be a dead language, and was under Franco, but due to significant government backing and public support, it's risen again to become the most spoken language in Catalonia. People speak both Catalan and Spanish fluently and that's definitely a nice headstart to have in life. The Irish government could really learn something by looking at the methods employed by the regional government in Catalonia.

Sponge Bob · 19-10-2007 06:03PM

monkey tennis wrote: »

OT: To various mongos giving out about people using one of our official national languages: Noone's forcing you to read it (even if you could). You don't hear the gaeilgeoirí giving out about you typing in English, do you?

Pour Moi il est davantage évident , forcement ça, que la plupart d'entre ceux qui font semblant de ne pas parler/lire (ou baiser ou quoi quíl soit) l'irlandaise ont étudié le français aussi.??

Mais si j'ecrivais qu'en Francais ??? continuez à nier tout cela mes braves

Scoobydoobydoo · 19-10-2007 06:04PM

DonJose wrote: »

Why waste a class on Irish, dead language, when you could learn a language you can actually use. My daughter was born abroad and she's started secondary this year, shes already bilingual, English/Spanish, and she doesn't have to learn Irish in secondary. French is compulsory and she choose German as an option. During Irish class she studies German or French.

Sorry, quite a few people do not feel it's a waste, thank you. I actually find that insulting! It's my heritage, my native tongue and I'm proud of that.

About your daughter learning foreign languages, that's brilliant, fair play, but what is your point? I was also bilingual by the age of 6, and I actually used Irish every day - that is not a dead language to me, when you live through it.

If the option of Irish was taken from my son in school I'd be very upset, even if the standard of teaching it is appalling.

MooseJam · 19-10-2007 06:07PM

It's a great idea, that and a free box of smarties to all

is_that_so · 19-10-2007 06:12PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

TPIMTAG

Agus muid ar fad ag plé oiriúinacht an triú teanga náisiúnta seo...mar dhea.

Nach bhfeicfeann tú an fánacht a bhaineann leis an rud ar fad ....no fiú rúinne beag íoróin .....mar a fheicimse .

Dár liomsa ní ghetto í an suoímh seo ina bhfuil codanna feiliúnacha réamh-áirithe don Ghaeilge .

Aontaím le múinteoir anseo . Is beag ciall atá ann an Ghaeilge a úsaid anseo. Dar liomsa is drochbhéasach é chomh maith. Ní cheart creideamh gur féidir le duine freagra a thabhairt ort nuair nach bhfuil tuiscint dá laighead acu. Mo náire thú.

Unlike you I feel no need to hide behind my ability in the language and I will happily translate what I have just said.

"I agree with múinteoir here. There is little point using Irish exclusively here. IMO it is also offensive. You have no reason to assume that anyone has any idea how you are answering them. Shame on you."

Terry · 19-10-2007 06:20PM

Sponge Bob, post in English.

The Irish version of AH is at the top of the page.
Thanks.

Tigger · 19-10-2007 06:21PM

добро ii1 думает мы должно поговорить poliski

poxy babel fish don't do polish

Sponge Bob · 19-10-2007 06:21PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Aontaím le múinteoir anseo . Is beag ciall atá ann an Ghaielge a úsaid anseo. Dar liomsa is drochbhéasach é chomh maith. Ní cheart creideamh gur féidir le duine freagra a thabhairt ort nuair nach bhfuil tuiscint dá laighead acu. Mo náire thú.

MAIS !!!?!?!!! Ta gueule toi ! :mad:

OK Terry , je l'ai vu . A ce moment on discute pas le sujet par la .

Je me tais !!!!

is_that_so · 19-10-2007 06:23PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

MAIS !!!?!?!!! Ta gueule toi ! :mad:

It's odd that the first expressions in a foreign language tend to be the insults.

Firetrap · 19-10-2007 06:26PM

Poles should learn English as should all other immigrants. If I went to live abroad in a country where they don't speak Engish, you can bet your bottom dollar that they wouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate my lack of knowledge of the local language. I would also have no reason to expect them to do this.

I know a few Poles and they've put a lot of effort into learning and improving their English. As well as making day to day life easier for themselves, it means they can talk to Irish people and not just Poles.

It's a warped logic that Polish should be the third language. What'd happen in a few years if immigration patterns change and next thing we have lots of Germans in the country or Chinese or whatever. Does this mean that suddenly German or Mandarin would become the third language?

Tigger · 19-10-2007 06:27PM

Firetrap wrote: »

Poles should learn English as should all other immigrants. If I went to live abroad in a country where they don't speak Engish, you can bet your bottom dollar that they wouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate my lack of knowledge of the local language. I would also have no reason to expect them to do this.

I know a few Poles and they've put a lot of effort into learning and improving their English. As well as making day to day life easier for themselves, it means they can talk to Irish people and not just Poles.

It's a warped logic that Polish should be the third language. What'd happen in a few years if immigration patterns change and next thing we have lots of Germans in the country or Chinese or whatever. Does this mean that suddenly German or Mandarin would become the third language?

when ever i go to the continent i just speak english but loudly

works fine

and they would be the third and fourth respectivally

its clear that once a language gets status in ireland it cannot be disposed

challengemaster · 19-10-2007 06:46PM

What.The.Fúck.

If they want to come here for x reason, then they have to go by our rules, learn our languages, etc etc. - logical, no? Or I mean, would it make sense.."Ok lads, here's an idea. lets all go to <insert country here> and introduce the Irish language, eh?" and expect them to bend for us, the immigrants, because "We're having a bit of trouble integrating" - tough shít, would be the response I imagine

purple'n'gold · 19-10-2007 07:43PM

excolo populus in ireland should perceptum oro english. terminus of fabula!

Reku · 19-10-2007 08:10PM

Not sure how I feel on this one, one could argue that it's not part of our culture, but then at one point English wasn't either...

I guess it'd have to just be put to the numbers of how many actual Irish citizens (either born or through successful application) put it down as one of their languages in the future censuses (censi?).

dc69 · 19-10-2007 08:22PM

This is an absolute disgrace,who do they think they are,we are losing all of our culture and heratige because all of our polaticians and irish people in general are to scared about commenting on immagration and defending our culture,whats next polish before irish in schools what a joke,they should all have to learn english before they come over here,which most of them cant,im actually incensed with rage at the moment:mad:

they are luckly to be here and are taking to many liberties as it is ie quiting jobs every 5 months and going back to poland for two weeks to avoid paying tax,becuase the ones i know do that and so do all their friends!
and we all know that when this building boom ceases they will all go back to poland or move on to another country,leaving whatever cultural identiy we irish have left in taters.with polish as our third language,its almost laughable

**** off if they come here they send there children to irish schools where they wil learn irish just like the rest of us,cheeky *****

Gazza22 · 19-10-2007 08:24PM

Even if the 250,000 poles did decide to stay here permanently, i would find it outrageous if Polish was introduced in any shape or form as an official language.

Poccington · 19-10-2007 08:32PM

syklops wrote: »

All commands for troops in the Irish Army is in Irish, which personally I think, for health and safety reasons, not to mention for integration with troops from other countries is not very smart. For ceremonial, fine, but day to day, no. But thats a thread for another day.

No they're not. You're right about orders for as you called it "ceremonial" being in Irish e.g. Foot Drill and Arms Drill. After that the only time I can think of Irish being used is when being mounted for Security etc. or whilst on the Range. All those orders would never be used in any situation where it would be detrimental to the situation or just plain awkward.

But for day to day, if an NCO for example wanted you to get something from your room they'd just say "Here Skylops, get up to your room and get item X". It'd be far too complicated and unnecessary if every time you were ordered to do something it had to be in Irish.

Terry · 19-10-2007 08:41PM

farohar wrote: »

Not sure how I feel on this one, one could argue that it's not part of our culture, but then at one point English wasn't either...

I guess it'd have to just be put to the numbers of how many actual Irish citizens (either born or through successful application) put it down as one of their languages in the future censuses (censi?).

If they successfully invade and keep control of the country for 400 years, while at the same time forcing us to speak Polish, banning schooling for most people and forcing 75% of the population to either starve of leave the country, then we'll give it a go.

Is that cool with everyone?

empirix · 19-10-2007 08:47PM

B****x to that, there welcome in my book but they live by our laws/rules or piss off.

Polish as official 3rd language

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