Polish as official 3rd language

connundrum

A guy (the editor I think) from Szpila Magazine, a Polish Community mag was on the radio this morning promoting the idea of introducing Polish as the official 3rd language of Ireland.

The reasoning behind it being that there are 250,000 Poles living in Ireland and that life for them is relatively difficult i.e. reading signs, communicating with officials etc. The thinking is that once Polish is recognised as an official language, then all documents will have to be produced in triplicate. (There were a number of other benefits but I was driving and didn't catch the others)

He was all for it, suggesting that Irish people could be learning Polish in schools, that Polish people would benefit from it in that it'd aid integration into Irish society. He even went as far as to suggest that a few Polish history lessons mightn't go amiss.

What to do...

Poco Loco

I feel nothing negative at all towards Polish people, or any Eastern Europeans, and I do think they should be welcomed into Ireland. However, I don't think many of them plan to settle here forever. Is it not more the case that they want to work here for a few years, save up and go home to live in Poland? As a result, wouldn't the addition of the language be pointless in the long run. America and the UK did not add Irish as a 2nd official language when we all headed over there years ago and it worked fine...

Kintarō Hattori

Now that's just a mad idea. The majority of Poles are here as economic immigrants and most of them will eventually leave when the economy takes a downward turn.
Also as economic immigrants they knew the score when they were coming here. We speak english and not polish, so it's up to them to get a grasp of the language.

Promoting the idea of Polish as a third language at this stage is simply ludicrous. I can't imagine that anyone could really see it as being a real possibility as the conditions for it aren't right. I can only suspect that this chap is trying to grab his 15 minutes of fame and perhaps make a name for himself.

I say all of this having been with my polish girlfriend for almost 3 years, having bought an apartment with her just recently in Poland. I am often to be seen in 'Polish' threads defending the Poles but this 'idea' is madness.

knightmare

A lot of american schools do teach spanish though! Possibly because of the large number of south american immigrants

0ubliette

No.

prendy

thats a stupid idea...im all for welcoming people into the country but enough is enough.

magick

no

its

irish

english
&

well bud

bohsman

knightmare wrote: »

A lot of american schools do teach spanish though! Possibly because of the large number of south american immigrants

No stats to back it up but afaik Spanish is the second most used language on the internet, close 2nd to English in a lot of areas in the States and is also taught in some Irish schools along with German and French.

Still madness to introduce Polish as a 3rd language here.

super_furry

Are there any conclusive numbers when it comes to immegrants? I was always under the impression that the Chinese were the biggest group?

purple'n'gold

Polish people are very welcome here. They are Europeans, very much like ourselves, and the ones that will stay here long term (the minority I’m afraid) will integrate totally in a relatively short space of time. It’s a terrible pity that they didn’t send boat loads of beautiful Polish women here 40 years ago! But that’s a discussion for another day. But, making Polish the 3rd official language? That’s just plain daft, kite flying I would reckon.

Owen

I gotta say I'm with eo980 on this too. I'm with my Polish missus for about 2 years now, and we've lots of Polish friends. My other half is happy to stay here, but her friends will return to Poland as soon as they have enough money put away. This Polish in Ireland phase is just that, a phase. We have a great economy currently, and it attracts migrant workers, and as soon as that economy downturns, they'll be off home, or to the next bouyant market.

Making long term plans to change the education of Irish people to suit an immigrant demographic is a little silly. I'm learning Polish at the moment, and it's not easy by any means, and I do think our educational system would be better served teaching students some of the larger economic languages, German, Spanish, etc.

SimpleSam06

Nyeh. Some eastern european nimrod trying to raise a fuss and get a name for himself. Nothing to see here. Talking about it at all is only helping the numpty.

Tigger

Poco Loco wrote: »

I feel nothing negative at all towards Polish people, or any Eastern Europeans, and I do think they should be welcomed into Ireland.

here come the big but the size of the butt on a school nurse

However, I don't think many of them plan to settle here forever. Is it not more the case that they want to work here for a few years, save up and go home to live in Poland?

the mexicians and irish in america would beg to differ
more "irish" in the US than in ireland

As a result, wouldn't the addition of the language be pointless in the long run. America and the UK did not add Irish as a 2nd official language when we all headed over there years ago and it worked fine...

irish is the second language of those who went the the states and the Uk

the mexicians who setteled in the states had spanish as their first language and its every where in certain areas

(i'm just saying)

Stephen P

I've never heard of such a ridiculous idea in my life. 250,000 in the whole county isn't that many to warrant having it as a 3rd language

cornbb

Its a dumb idea. Poles and whoever else are welcome in our country as far as I'm concerned but making Polish an official language is a few steps too far.

I agree with the practice of making information available in foreign languages though, this is the case with citizensinformation.ie, bank documentation etc etc already. I also think that a certain amount of government subsidisation for Polish cultural initiatives would be apt; they do make a large tax contribution after all.

SimpleSam06

rbd wrote: »

the mexicians and irish in america would beg to differ
more "irish" in the US than in ireland

Okay, so when Ireland becomes a continent with more space and resources than it knows what to do with, your analogy might actually hold some water.

Actually Ireland mostly allowed in so many Polish because the UK was doing it, and we have an open land border with the UK. The UK itself was astounded at the scale of the economic migration, and as far as I know cut back drastically on the numbers it was letting in. Should migrants prove detrimental to Ireland or Irish culture, the same can be done here as well.

I'd say trying to make Ireland into a "little Poland" definetely qualifies as seccessionist activity as well.

Agent Smith

Bunreacht Na h&#201 wrote: »

Article 8
1.The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.

2.The English language is recognised as a second official language.


3.Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

here Lies a Slight Problem.
To make Polish, or any other langauge official, It would have to be ratified by referendum.
The Vast Vast Majority of people that could Vote in such a referendum would be Irish people.

Terry

Hi. I've just moved here from a foreign country and am looking for a way to unsettle the natives and create a general dislike for my fellow countrymen.

Does anyone know of a quick way of doing this?

Tigger

Terry wrote: »

Hi. I've just moved here from a foreign country and am looking for a way to unsettle the natives and create a general dislike for my fellow countrymen.

Does anyone know of a quick way of doing this?

slow poision in the big macs and dig shallow foundations for their badly planned houses

growler

cornbb wrote: »

.

I agree with the practice of making information available in foreign languages though, this is the case with citizensinformation.ie, bank documentation etc etc already. I also think that a certain amount of government subsidisation for Polish cultural initiatives would be apt; they do make a large tax contribution after all.

have to disagree with you, the english government who bent over backwards to make all races / creeds feel welcome in sunny London by producing every governemet document in 40+ languages recently admitted that such a practice didn't help and actually reinforced the marginalisation of minorities. If someone is going to work live in ireland or anywhere, learn the native tongue, simple.

wes

I am a child of an immigrant and when my mothers family came here in the 70's they learned the language. If someone plans on living here,they should really learn the language. Anyway I am sure they guy who said this probably knows full well how stupid what he said is and its just a grab for attention.

Kintarō Hattori

Terry wrote: »

Hi. I've just moved here from a foreign country and am looking for a way to unsettle the natives and create a general dislike for my fellow countrymen.

Does anyone know of a quick way of doing this?

Let's try and remember that the Poles haven't actually asked for this. It's been put forward by the editor of one magazine. I'd hate to see any resentment or backlash at these people for the actions of one guy.

Let's keep that in focus.

Terry

growler wrote: »

have to disagree with you, the english government who bent over backwards to make all races / creeds feel welcome in sunny London by producing every governemet document in 40+ languages recently admitted that such a practice didn't help and actually reinforced the marginalisation of minorities. If someone is going to work live in ireland or anywhere, learn the native tongue, simple.

I've been saying the same thing for a while now.

We have seen what happens when immigrants do not integrate.
It just creates ghettos.

This post was brought to you by S.O.D.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBCos2MlQ1Y

Terry

eo980 wrote: »

Let's try and remember that the Poles haven't actually asked for this. It's been put forward by the editor of one magazine. I'd hate to see any resentment or backlash at these people for the actions of one guy.

Let's keep that in focus.

I'm well aware it was just one guy, but tell that to the small minded people out there who are just looking for an excuse to throw abuse at foreign people.

Kintarō Hattori

Oh I know Terry, I was just reitterating that it was just ONE guy.

SimpleSam06

eo980 wrote: »

Oh I know Terry, I was just reitterating that it was just ONE guy.

It usually is though, isn't it?

justsomebloke

Terry wrote: »

Hi. I've just moved here from a foreign country and am looking for a way to unsettle the natives and create a general dislike for my fellow countrymen.

Does anyone know of a quick way of doing this?

you could become an over bearing mod on the most popular forum of their countries biggest website

An Citeog

Definitely not a good idea. How many people in Ireland have actually mastered both the Irish and English languages? There are so many languages that would be beneficial for the Irish people to learn (eg. Spanish, Mandarin etc) and Polish isn't one of them. English has become the common language around the world and is the language of commerce. If Polish people, eastern Europeans in general, Chinese etc. want to live and work in Ireland, it's for their own benefit that they learn English.

purplengold wrote:

It’s a terrible pity that they didn’t send boat loads of beautiful Polish women here 40 years ago! But that’s a discussion for another day.

Why didn't anyone else think of that? I mean, we could've manipulated the Irish gene pool to create some sort of "master race". I'm sure I heard that someone tried this before. Not sure how it turned out though?!

zuutroy

Thats one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard

cornbb

jsb wrote: »

you could become an over bearing mod on the most popular forum of their countries biggest website

With respect to Terry (who is great), this is the funniest post I've read today

Jesus Wept

No.

Tigger

cornbb wrote: »

With respect to Terry (who is great), this is the funniest post I've read today

'e's not forgien is he?

the_syco

An Citeog wrote: »

I mean, we could've manipulated the Irish gene pool to create some sort of "master race". I'm sure I heard that someone tried this before. Not sure how it turned out though?!

Seconded. German would be a great 3rd languge, esp as the EU HQ is there, and all. Also, it'll help their "master race" policy that they used to have. You know: the one where Germany wanted a united Nazi European Union Europe.

DonJose

Well the first 'Polish-only' school begins classes tomorrow. So much for integration.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/polishonly-school-begins-classes-1199614.html

Terry

jsb wrote: »

you could become an over bearing mod on the most popular forum of their countries biggest website

I don't speak any other languages, so I'll just be overbearing here for the time being.

Feel free to voice your disapproval of my moderating in this thread.

Hobbes

Official third language? No.

Learn the current languages. Heck the population have problems learning the first two.

AFAIR, most offical documents government related are translated into other languages. For example the Census, and some road signs around airports.

But as something that would be rolled out over the country as an official language. No.

rubie

Just as an aside - if you ring one of the main insurance companies (Allianz - I think) the machine voice gives instructions in English and then Polish. Takes forever to get through all the options.

Zzippy

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Actually Ireland mostly allowed in so many Polish because the UK was doing it, and we have an open land border with the UK. The UK itself was astounded at the scale of the economic migration, and as far as I know cut back drastically on the numbers it was letting in. Should migrants prove detrimental to Ireland or Irish culture, the same can be done here as well.

Actually, Ireland let in so many Polish because they chose to come to a strong economy with jobs, and because they were an EU member state they had freedom of movement - when the accession countries joined the EU Ireland was one of the member states who did not place restrictions on numbers. They subsequently did do that with Romania, but not with the 10 (IIRC) countries who joined a few years ago. Don't think they could do it retrospectively - and in any case if they wanted to it would be for economic reasons i.e. economic downturn, fewer jobs, in which case many of the Poles would have gone home anyway.

An Citeog

DonJose wrote: »

Well the first 'Polish-only' school begins classes tomorrow. So much for integration.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/polishonly-school-begins-classes-1199614.html

Did you actually read the article? :rolleyes:

Irish Iindependent wrote:

'Polish-only' school begins classes

Friday October 19 2007

A SCHOOL teaching exclusively in the Polish language, the first of its kind in the Southeast, will begin classes tomorrow.

More than 100 pupils have enrolled for the weekend school in Waterford, which is based at St Paul's Community College and will teach subjects such as history and geography, but from a Polish perspective.

The school in Waterford, and another in Cork, were officially launched last weekend.

Funded by the Polish government, the weekend schools are designed to cater for Polish children that may return to their native country in the future. Children attending the weekend schools are sent with the consent of parents, and they are also obliged to attend Irish schools mid-week.

Principal of St Paul's Community College, Anthony Condron, said: "The Irish have gone all over the world and it is time for us to welcome others into our culture."

It's being funded by the Polish government, it's a weekend school and was designed to give Polish kids the chance to finish their education in Poland should it be necessary.

If I move to Spain, I'll learn to speak Spanish. If I move to China, I'll learn to speak Chinese.

If we make polish an official language, does that mean it would be taught in our primary/secondary schools? And if thats the case, what use is it to us?

purple'n'gold

Why didn't anyone else think of that? I mean, we could've manipulated the Irish gene pool to create some sort of "master race". I'm sure I heard that someone tried this before. Not sure how it turned out though?! [/QUOTE]

Not really worried about anybody else’s gene pool, (especially not Nazi Germany’s) but ours would have benefited hugely if instead of exporting our brightest and best (looking) we had been in the position to welcome beautiful Polish immigrants. (I’m only talking about women; I’ll leave the discussion on men to better qualified people.)

digitally-yours

ned78 wrote: »

I gotta say I'm with eo980 on this too. I'm with my Polish missus for about 2 years now, and we've lots of Polish friends. My other half is happy to stay here, but her friends will return to Poland as soon as they have enough money put away. This Polish in Ireland phase is just that, a phase. We have a great economy currently, and it attracts migrant workers, and as soon as that economy downturns, they'll be off home, or to the next bouyant market.

Making long term plans to change the education of Irish people to suit an immigrant demographic is a little silly. I'm learning Polish at the moment, and it's not easy by any means, and I do think our educational system would be better served teaching students some of the larger economic languages, German, Spanish, etc.

Absolutely Spot on

This may seem like a silly question, but how many countries actually speak Polish? Is it solely Poland?

digitally-yours

Deleted User wrote: »

This may seem like a silly question, but how many countries actually speak Polish? Is it solely Poland?

yes i think its only the official language in Poland.

Except that its spoken in other countries as well by the polish migrants.


If i could learn i would love to learn

"Chinese" = They will be leading the world soon
"Japanese" = Their economy is very sound
"Spanish" = necessary as its widely spoken after English
"German" = Their economy is good too and if you know German it has its advantages.

mathie

cornbb wrote: »

Its a dumb idea. Poles and whoever else are welcome in our country as far as I'm concerned but making Polish an official language is a few steps too far.

I agree with the practice of making information available in foreign languages though, this is the case with citizensinformation.ie, bank documentation etc etc already. I also think that a certain amount of government subsidisation for Polish cultural initiatives would be apt; they do make a large tax contribution after all.

I lived in Germany for a year.
Not a sniff of any documents or forms from the banks being in anything other than German.

If you go to a country you need to understand the language.
Otherwise hard luck.

M

purple'n'gold

digitally-yours wrote: »

yes i think its only the official language in Poland.

Except that its spoken in other countries as well by the polish migrants.


If i could learn i would love to learn

"Chinese" = They will be leading the world soon
"Japanese" = Their economy is very sound
"Spanish" = necessary as its widely spoken after English
"German" = Their economy is good too and if you know German it has its advantages.

What exactly do you mean by the Chinese will be leading the world?

digitally-yours

purplengold wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by the Chinese will be leading the world?

Click here

If you know business and read few things apart from Bebo u will know more

purple'n'gold

digitally-yours wrote: »

Click here

If you know business and read few things apart from Bebo u will know more

Apart from making dodgy toys and destroying the environment with their filthy coal fired generating stations, maybe they will lead the world with their wonderful human rights record?
Ps what on earth are you talking about, Bebo????

An Citeog

purplengold wrote: »

Apart from making dodgy toys and destroying the environment with their filthy coal fired generating stations, maybe they will lead the world with their wonderful human rights record?
Ps what on earth are you talking about, Bebo????

The Chinese economy is booming at the moment and it's only going to get bigger. The ignorance in your post is baffling. If I were to learn another language, apart from my brain exploding, it would definitely be Chinese.

digitally-yours

purplengold wrote: »

Apart from making dodgy toys and destroying the environment with their filthy coal fired generating stations, maybe they will lead the world with their wonderful human rights record?
Ps what on earth are you talking about, Bebo????

china is making everything its not just the Dodgy toys

HP = made in china
Nikon= Made in china
Cannon=Made in china
Panasonic=Made in china
and the list goes on ...

Also see the following link.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011468.shtml

syklops

zuutroy wrote: »

Thats one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard

Im not for it, but there are more people in Ireland who speak polish fluently, than who speak Irish fluently. I know, I know, Its our heritage, cultural right, blah blah blah. But the truth is if you want to communicate with people from other countries, Irish is of absolutely no use what soever(unless you work for Mossad). I loath the 14 years I spent being taught it. If I had instead learnt polish, I could propose to my girlfriend in her native tongue(fyi she is staying here) and manage to communicate with czecks, slovaks and other eastern countries. If I had spent the time learning Arabic, I could get a job with any Intelligence service/embassy/translating company in the world. Heck, even if I had learnt latin, it would have been a help as most european languages stem from it. Polish sounds at times like latin.

When the irish emmigrated to America millions of years ago, most spoke english, some may have spoken mainly Irish with some english, but when they arrived off the boat, at least the street signs were in English, and not in English and Mohican/Iroquis. Would so many have stayed if they were?

Again I want to say I am not necessarily for it, but look at the number of people who actually speak our current national tongue. Personally I think it is too early to decide to add polish. If the population of polish people stays at or above 250,000 for 10 years, then yes, it has my vote.

you can all light your torches and get your pitchforks now.