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Polish as official 3rd language

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Comments

  • #92
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    Galwayguy99 wrote: »
    Actually, Ireland let in so many Polish because they chose to come to a strong economy with jobs, and because they were an EU member state they had freedom of movement - when the accession countries joined the EU Ireland was one of the member states who did not place restrictions on numbers.
    Yes, but the point was that we let them in because the UK let them in. We had no real choice, just like we drive on the wrong side of the road when compared to the rest of the world.
    Galwayguy99 wrote: »
    Don't think they could do it retrospectively - and in any case if they wanted to it would be for economic reasons i.e. economic downturn, fewer jobs, in which case many of the Poles would have gone home anyway.
    Actually we could turf just about anyone we wanted out of the country, and lock down the borders too. Thats why its called Ireland, not Anyonesland. Not saying we should, just it could be done alright.


  • #93
    eldeabroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭eldeabroad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If I move to Spain, I'll learn to speak Spanish. If I move to China, I'll learn to speak Chinese./QUOTE]


    I live in The Basque Country and speak spanish as well as some Basque, quite often use my english (with tourists or other Irish) and know Irish people here who converse in Irish between themselves. There are many people from many other countries in the town where I live and the thing that strikes me is that the Irish are about the only group that actively mix with and integrate into the local society, despite being of smaller numbers. Romanians in particular seem to want to intimidate and harass the locals into being afraid of them... has not nor will not work though... at least not here..... be very careful, Ireland, when the romanians/bulgarians start to arrive... there will be a high rise in crime, assaults, intimidation etc BE WARNED (I have personal experience of this btw)


  • #94
    digitally-yours
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭digitally-yours


    SimpleSam06 wrote: »

    Actually we could turf just about anyone we wanted out of the country, and lock down the borders too. Thats why its called Ireland, not Anyonesland. Not saying we should, just it could be done alright.

    Not anymore

    Things changing soon

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6928737.stm

    Update your self ;)


  • #95
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    Overheal wrote: »
    Polish history though? I'd consent to that - it makes sense to educate kids about the kind of people they live with. Personally I dont know a damn thing about Eastern Europe.

    I mean - if you want them to know English, they should have you know a little about them too, correct? Its only good manners.
    How about as an alternative measure, we make knowledge of Irish history a prerequisite for people wanting to enter the country for work purposes?


  • #96
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    digitally-yours wrote: »
    Not anymore

    Things changing soon

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6928737.stm

    Update your self ;)
    Regardless of the EU's superstate aspirations, short of physically invading a place, they can't stop a member state from dropping out if they want. Not to mention that this treaty is nowhere near ratified.


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  • #97
    Scoobydoobydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭Scoobydoobydoo


    syklops wrote: »
    You have only met one polish person? Where do you live? Inis Mann?

    Im sorry you do not agree with my point of view, and please remember, I have absolute respect for my heritage, and I recognise that irish is a part of that heritage, I do not agree with the way the language is force fed to students and the population in general. A sure fire way of making people resent the language is making people learn it who do not want to.

    I do meet polish people everyday. My girlfriend is Polish, my next door neighbour is polish. I work with Polish people, they guy who drives the bus i get in the morning is polish, and have a few words in the language is very useful. Between getting up and arriving in work I have met 5 people who speak polish as there first language, and none who speak Irish as their first language.
    T

    I live in Dublin 14. I have only met one Polish person in the office where I work, and we've had a conversation once (he's in a different department). That's it, never anywhere else, ever!!
    Also in the office are people from Germany, USA, UK, so there isn't a larger proportion of any one group.

    I am surprised that you are surprised that I don't meet Polish people in my day to day life! Why is that?

    I understand Sponge Bob because I went to Gaelscoileanna, but I understand why you're not a fan of the language if you've been taught badly. My son is going through the system now, unfortunately for him in an English speaking school, and I've noticed that in general, the standard of teaching it and the approach is just awful in these places. It's a pity, because I think it's important to keep it alive.


  • #98
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Mairt wrote: »
    haven't we just opened a school in Balbriggan for Africans?.

    Indeed, let the ghettoisation begin!!


  • #99
    Múinteoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Múinteoir


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Nach féidir leo Gaeilge a fhoghlam má tá siad dáiríre faoin tír seo, agus muna bhfuil nach féidir leo canúint wha bud story Bhaile Átha Cliath a fhoghlam ina h-áit .

    Bhfearr liomsa Spáinis mar thriú theanga ....más gá ceann !

    For someone so determined to speak Irish Sponge Bob, you're nowhere to be seen in Teach na nGealt. :confused: Cen fáth sin?


  • #100
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mise_me_fein wrote: »
    What language do people speak in The Ukraine? I think they're in a bit of a similar spot over there. I think most speak Russian. They're gonna get their language back though.

    Ukraine is a very special case. Being part of the old Soviet Union and also subject to the removal or departure of much of its intelligentsia in the bad old days, Russian became the dominant tongue. You will also find many people with roots in Russia, as people would have moved or been moved around a lot.
    These days Polish is also spoken in the West near L'viv. Ukrainian would be spoken throughout the country but there are still many places in the East where Russian might be more common.

    As for the question, well we ain't even got a second language despite Sponge Bob's best effort. It's a quiet news day and the comments are bordering on utter silliness. I see nothing wrong with Polish schools, in the same way that we have German or French schools here and no doubt there may be schools for other nationalities. Most AFAIK are private and kids go there so that they can get qualifications for their own country as well.


  • #101
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Múinteoir wrote: »
    For someone so determined to speak Irish Sponge Bob, you're nowhere to be seen in Teach na nGealt. :confused: Cen fáth sin?

    Ní bhímse anseo go ró mhinic ach an oiread a chomrádaí :p


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  • #102
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    SimpleSam06 wrote: »
    How about as an alternative measure, we make knowledge of Irish history a prerequisite for people wanting to enter the country for work purposes?

    Why would you do that? How does it really benefit the Irish or the immigrants? Is it really just to make you feel better?
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Ní bhímse anseo go ró mhinic ach an oiread a chomrádaí :p

    You never answered my questions from post number 78.


  • #103
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »
    I live in Dublin 14. I have only met one Polish person in the office where I work, and we've had a conversation once (he's in a different department). That's it, never anywhere else, ever!!
    Also in the office are people from Germany, USA, UK, so there isn't a larger proportion of any one group.
    Where I work there are a few Dutch, few poles, and the rest is Irish and Brits. I worked in Tech Support for BT(uk market) and on a floor of 150, 64 were polish.

    Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »
    I am surprised that you are surprised that I don't meet Polish people in my day to day life! Why is that?
    Its because I meet about 5 before 10am, and about a dozen more in the course of the day. My girlfriend is polish, so I guess Im one up on you the minute I wake up.
    Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »
    I understand Sponge Bob because I went to Gaelscoileanna, but I understand why you're not a fan of the language if you've been taught badly. My son is going through the system now, unfortunately for him in an English speaking school, and I've noticed that in general, the standard of teaching it and the approach is just awful in these places. It's a pity, because I think it's important to keep it alive.

    Finally something we agree upon. I also think it is important to respect our heritage, and give the language a shot at surviving, but the way it is taught is appalling, and the pro-gaelige league should come out and say the way it is taught is appalling. The drilling in, force fed approach does more damage to the language than anything else. Apart from maybe the holier than thou attitude that some gaeladoirs have.

    All commands for troops in the Irish Army is in Irish, which personally I think, for health and safety reasons, not to mention for integration with troops from other countries is not very smart. For ceremonial, fine, but day to day, no. But thats a thread for another day.


  • #104
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Ní bhímse anseo go ró mhinic ach an oiread a chomrádaí :p

    I have been through the charter, sure to find a line saying this is an english only forum, but been unsuccessful. Were I a mod, I would say speaking Irish anywhere but the irish form is, while not being against the rules, for want of a better word, daft. I don't know what he is on about. Who does?


  • #105
    Scoobydoobydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭Scoobydoobydoo


    syklops wrote: »
    Finally something we agree upon. I also think it is important to respect our heritage, and give the language a shot at surviving, but the way it is taught is appalling, and the pro-gaelige league should come out and say the way it is taught is appalling. The drilling in, force fed approach does more damage to the language than anything else. Apart from maybe the holier than thou attitude that some gaeladoirs have.

    I agree. For example my son would come home from school with Irish spellings for homework - he was expected to learn how to spell words he didn't even know the meaning of!! How stupid is that?!!


  • #106
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    syklops wrote: »
    I have been through the charter, sure to find a line saying this is an english only forum, but been unsuccessful. Were I a mod, I would say speaking Irish anywhere but the irish form is, while not being against the rules, for want of a better word, daft. I don't know what he is on about. Who does?


    it means look at me i'm more irish than ye


  • #107
    Múinteoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Múinteoir


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Ní bhímse anseo go ró mhinic ach an oiread a chomrádaí :p

    You're no stranger to regular posting on boards.ie with over 7000 posts in just over two years of membership. To an Irish speaker like myself who tries to use it as regularly as possible in the right circumstances, it does seem a bit disingenuous that someone who posts so much on boards.ie and yet posts so little in the all-Irish forum, would be so insistent in speaking/writing Irish (only) in a situation like this which is clearly lacking in Irish speakers. If you at least posted bi-lingually, it would be acceptable, but posting in Irish only here is just being rude. It smacks of trolling. You're doing the Irish language and Irish speakers no favours sir. :mad:


  • #108
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Múinteoir wrote: »
    You're no stranger to regular posting on boards.ie with over 7000 posts in just over two years of membership. To an Irish speaker like myself who tries to use it as regularly as possible in the right circumstances, it does seem a bit disingenuous that someone who posts so much on boards.ie and yet posts so little in the all-Irish forum, would be so insistent in speaking/writing Irish (only) in a situation like this which is clearly lacking in Irish speakers. If you at least posted bi-lingually, it would be acceptable, but posting in Irish only here is just being rude. It smacks of trolling. You're doing the Irish language and Irish speakers no favours sir. :mad:

    i was scared to look and see what teacher had said but good post


  • #109
    Múinteoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Múinteoir


    rbd wrote: »
    i was scared to look and see what teacher had said

    Why, pray tell?


  • #110
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Múinteoir wrote: »
    Why, pray tell?

    just cos
    #


  • #111
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    eo980 wrote: »
    You never answered my questions from post number 78.

    Ach is cuma liom faoi do cheist. Pé scéal é dhfhreagair tú féin go h-indíreach í dá dtuigfeá sin .


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  • #112
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Ach is cuma liom faoi do cheist. Pé scéal é dhfhreagair tú féin go h-indíreach í dá dtuigfeá sin .

    As I've mentioned already, several times now, I haven't a clue what your saying. You haven't answered me in a manner I can understand and you are now only doing your cause more harm than good. Congragulations.


  • #113
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Múinteoir wrote: »
    You're doing the Irish language and Irish speakers no favours sir. :mad:

    TPIMTAG :D

    Agus muid ar fad ag plé oiriúinacht an triú teanga náisiúnta seo...mar dhea.

    Nach bhfeicfeann tú an fánacht a bhaineann leis an rud ar fad ....no fiú rúinne beag íoróin .....mar a fheicimse .

    Dár liomsa ní ghetto í an suoímh seo ina bhfuil codanna feiliúnacha réamh-áirithe don Ghaeilge .


  • #114
    Múinteoir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Múinteoir


    syklops wrote: »


    Finally something we agree upon. I also think it is important to respect our heritage, and give the language a shot at surviving, but the way it is taught is appalling, and the pro-gaelige league should come out and say the way it is taught is appalling. The drilling in, force fed approach does more damage to the language than anything else. Apart from maybe the holier than thou attitude that some gaeladoirs have.

    I don't know one person, either English speaker or Irish speaker, who doesn't admit that how it's taught is a joke. All the Irish language groups are quite clear on the issue (Check out their websites if you don't believe me). Nothing changes, because there is a lack of political will to change things (bad as it sounds, education reform is not a big vote getter), not because Irish speakers/Irish language lobby won't admit there is a problem. If you followed the Irish language media a bit more you might be more aware of this. Irish speakers are well aware there is a problem and have been for decades.

    As for compulsion not working, I went to an Irish school and like most people who went there, I only went there because my parents wanted me too. It was not my choice. (Let's be honest, you never have real choice in your education until you become independent of your parents). In fact I was distinctly unhappy going there originally. (Nothing to do with Irish, I just wanted to go to the school where most of my friends from primary school went).

    Yet I and everyone who finished their education in that school came out fluent in Irish and with a huge respect for the language. That is also the experience of anyone else I know who completed their basic education through Irish.

    Yet, by the 'compulsion doesn't work' argument, every single one of us who were 'forced' to go to Irish schools should have come out without a word of Irish and hated the language, just because we were 'forced'. Let's put the myth of 'compulsion/choice' to bed, people. Language immersion is the only way to properly learn any language. Whether it is compulsory or not has feck all to do with it.


  • #115
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    eo980 wrote: »
    As I've mentioned already, several times now, I haven't a clue what your saying. You haven't answered me in a manner I can understand and you are now only doing your cause more harm than good. Congragulations.

    Cén chúis a mhol mise seachas feiliúnacht na Spáinnise :eek: ????


  • #116
    Scoobydoobydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭Scoobydoobydoo


    eo980 wrote: »
    Actually it's a little annoying that your continuing to speak in Irish. You have a forum here for that. It's shameful that so few Irish people (myself included) can speak the language but that's the way it is.
    What are you hoping to achieve, what point are you trying to make in continuing to post here in Irish knowing that the majority don't understand you and can't reply to what your saying.

    I think, eo980, Bob is saying that he doesn't care about your question and you answered your own question indirectly in this post above.

    He is intentionally being rude actually, and he's having fun with it.


  • #117
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Rightyo.... you're just demonstrating that your an eejit.


  • #118
    oneeyedsnake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭oneeyedsnake


    connundrum wrote: »
    A guy (the editor I think) from Szpila Magazine, a Polish Community mag was on the radio this morning promoting the idea of introducing Polish as the official 3rd language of Ireland.

    The reasoning behind it being that there are 250,000 Poles living in Ireland and that life for them is relatively difficult i.e. reading signs, communicating with officials etc. The thinking is that once Polish is recognised as an official language, then all documents will have to be produced in triplicate. (There were a number of other benefits but I was driving and didn't catch the others)

    He was all for it, suggesting that Irish people could be learning Polish in schools, that Polish people would benefit from it in that it'd aid integration into Irish society. He even went as far as to suggest that a few Polish history lessons mightn't go amiss.

    What to do...

    No,it should not,if their life is so "relatively difficult" then maybe they should consider moving back to Poland.


  • #119
    Scoobydoobydoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭Scoobydoobydoo


    Múinteoir wrote: »
    Yet I and everyone who finished their education in that school came out fluent in Irish and with a huge respect for the language. That is also the experience of anyone else I know who completed their basic education through Irish.

    Yet, by the 'compulsion doesn't work' argument, every single one of us who were 'forced' to go to Irish schools should have come out without a word of Irish and hated the language, just because we were 'forced'. Let's put the myth of 'compulsion/choice' to bed, people. Language immersion is the only way to properly learn any language. Whether it is compulsory or not has feck all to do with it.

    This is my experience also.


  • #120
    projectmayhem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,421 ✭✭✭projectmayhem


    connundrum wrote: »
    What to do...

    maybe inform the Polish that this is Ireland, our primary language is English and we have our own culture etc.

    if I went to live in germany, before doing so i'd take a course in german to get me by. why in the name of god should an entire society change to have a 3rd language, new schooling etc. etc. because a minority have moved in, so to speak?

    we'll get to an american type situation where muslims protest at the sight of a christmas tree.

    if you want to speak polish, go to poland.. don't try and change an entire country to suit your own selfish needs.


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  • #121
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Scoobydoobydoo wrote: »
    I think, eo980, Bob is saying that he doesn't care about your question and you answered your own question indirectly in this post above.

    Sin é a dúirt mé .
    He is intentionally being rude actually, and he's having fun with it.

    Ach cén chaoi ar féidir linne teanga nua oifigiúil a phlé anseo nuair atá péire againn cheana féin ???????

    Mar a deir (dúirt is dócha :rolleyes:) lucht na Laidine, Reductio Ad Absurdum


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