Please, please.....look around.

pretty-in-pink · 12-09-2007 10:06PM

I was speaking generallyI'm quite aware that things were never perfect, but this is a lonely society even within a crowd. look at pi. the amount of people who can't make friends, or confide in their friends because of how they think it will make them look.

Suicide is way up amongst the quite young and the quite old.

its intrisic pressure with enviromental factors playing a smaller part for girls, extrinsic for boys.

Its all down to fear- to afraid to live. And so many teenages who do it (or attempt it, and survive to explain it) do so withou being really aware that this means its over. forever. A permanent solution to a temporary problem. It like a "yeah well see what I can do, what do you think now" fingers up to the world

Kinetic^ · 12-09-2007 10:17PM

pretty-in-pink wrote:

The pressure of being "cool" as an adult are far worse as a teenager, and everything seems so much more important then it actually is when you're going through it.

Are you saying there's more pressure to be cool as an adult or teenage because I can't understand what dialect you're trying to communicate in!!

Mr.Nice Guy · 12-09-2007 10:20PM

homah_7ft wrote:

The truth of the matter is that there has always been pressure on people within all societies. People have always used drugs and sex as a form of escapism. Things are not getting worse.

Don't agree with that. Suicide rates are on the up, dangerous crime is on the up. Society seems bleaker.

I think part of the problem is the greater emphasis on status in the modern era which brings with it more pressure. Kids are basically following a path that has been set out for them which is along these lines:

J. Cert => L. Cert => Degree/Diploma => Well-paid job => Happy ever after

And if things go awry and they deviate from this path ever so slightly it can seem like a crisis of gigantic proportions. In reality, it isn't. Schools need to make young people aware of this.

pretty-in-pink · 12-09-2007 10:26PM

Kenny 5 wrote:

Are you saying there's more pressure to be cool as an adult or teenage because I can't understand what dialect you're trying to communicate in!!

ok, think i left a word out, I meant that its hard enough for some people to fit in as adults, and that its much harder as a teenager. kids are crueler, and less accepting of differences etc

Call Me Jimmy · 12-09-2007 10:46PM

OctavarIan wrote:

Nah, it was more likely the last straw on top of whatever ongoing problems she already had. But it's pointless to speculate when we don't know anything. This isn't the Maddie McCann thread

You speculate, then say it's pointless to speculate?

And your speculation is not more likely, you don't know her as you said, even if you did you probably wouldn't know why she did this.

TPD · 12-09-2007 11:28PM

Now Denial: To tell oneself that the only time worth living in is the past and that the only time that may ever be interesting again is the future.

Wishbone Ash · 12-09-2007 11:46PM

I did the Inter Cert in 1984 and the Leaving Certificate in 1986. The country was on it's knees then. How can people think that there is more pressure on pupils nowadays? It was almost impossible then to get what would now be called a 'minimum wage' job. All the way through secondary school, we were told that there were no jobs out there. It certainly made learning Latin and Greek seem futile but we must have been a resilient bunch. I've never been un employed here even though, at the time, everyone was going to the USA.

Candidates for interview were shortlisted using ridiculous methods like the colour of pen used or the amount of folds on the form. My older sister went for an interview in 1985. There were 20 positions and 2,000 applicants. (She got it). The same job is now being done by foreigners.

This tragic event this morning had nothing to do with the junior Certificate or the pressures involved. If it wasn't today , it would have been some other day.

delta_bravo · 12-09-2007 11:49PM

So Glad wrote:

the fact she was obviously distraught about her results that would hint to the reason she did it.

Fact? How do you know this? I have yet to see it in any papers' websites. And how do you know she was "obviously" distraught? Were you there? Did you know her?

Also, I dont agree that there is too much pressure placed on students for the junior cert. They know it is not a highly important exam, they are not fools. However, that does not stop people from studying for it. I think people need to hold judgement on this girl's situation or the education system until the facts actually appear

The guy · 13-09-2007 12:03AM

Is it a generational thing to blame society nowadays?

The "In my day..." attitude.

Doctor DooM · 13-09-2007 12:06AM

The guy wrote:

Is it a generational thing to blame society nowadays?

The "In my day..." attitude.

I reckon everyone probably does it at some point... more like a nostalgia thing.

Wishbone Ash · 13-09-2007 12:11AM

SDooM wrote:

I reckon everyone probably does it at some point... more like a nostalgia thing.

When someone took their own life 20 or 30 years ago I don't ever remember anyone talking about 'pressure'.

Spyral · 13-09-2007 12:15AM

I know there is a thread about it here, but I wish to ask a favor of you all. Look around the world you are creating for your children. Look at what it is doing. The pressure put upon this child by the schools and (possibly) the parents, who don't know what the REAL priorities in life are anyways made her give up the WILL to live. This child was lead down the path of illusory life-goals, handed down and given the stamp of approval by the powers that be, and given to the schools (AKA robot factories) that pat you on the back and give you a gold star for being repeaters....and if you disagree with this, or FAIL this, you fail life.....and will live a sad, lonely, poor, meaningless life. As if it isn't already like that anyways.
..

we are the bórg
lower your inhibitions and behave like an asshole
we will rape your culture until it is all alcohol fuelled and morals break down
have a nice day

delta_bravo · 13-09-2007 12:19AM

Spyral wrote:

we are the bórg
lower your inhibitions and behave like an asshole
we will rape your culture until it is all alcohol fuelled and morals break down
have a nice day

Thanks for the contribution, very profound.

Doctor DooM · 13-09-2007 12:19AM

Wishbone Ash wrote:

When someone took their own life 20 or 30 years ago I don't ever remember anyone talking about 'pressure'.

Can you honestly say life is worse in the noughties than the eighties?

Just because the buzz word wasnt around doesnt mean that pressure wasnt abundant.

Call Me Jimmy · 13-09-2007 12:21AM

littlebitdull wrote:

Why would you suggest that society is creating an illness?

Mental illness is an illness... it is a chemical inbalance in the brain. It can and does get treated with medication. And in some cases it can be treated without medication, but its a different type of treatment.

Its is an illness.

Not a sign of the times....

Mental illness is a chemical inbalance in the brain is it? How could that possibly be treated without medication if that was the case? Don't pretend to know what you're talking about when you don't.

indough · 13-09-2007 01:07AM

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

eoin5 · 13-09-2007 02:06AM

indough wrote:

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

Depression isnt the only mental illness. Anyways his statement is just a reducement to obscurity, why not talk about the atoms that cause depression.

From the wiki entry on clinical depression:

"Current theories regarding the risk factors and causes of clinical depression can be broadly classified into two categories, Physiological and Sociopsychological"

Physiological covers things like Neurological and Genetic causes. Sociopsychological covers stuff like life experiences and psychological factors.

Its also worth noting that depression is not fully understood yet.

Call Me Jimmy · 13-09-2007 02:07AM

indough wrote:

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

Nope the poster ruled out society being the problem saying that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance. Some forms of mental illnesses can be caused by chemical imbalances but others are caused by other factors.

[tongue in cheek]
And if I had an apology to make for (in your eyes) being wrong, then you have an apology to make for asking me to make an apology...
[/tongue in cheek]

EDIT: Poster above explains a bit more, but you've probably already read that.

indough · 13-09-2007 02:37AM

What other factors cause mental illness (not disbelieving, just curious to know)? My understanding is that factors may cause mental illness, but that the illness itself was the chemical imbalance, as in the said factors cause a chemical imbalance.

CMJ, in the post I replied to you seemed to be making the point that a chemical imbalance couldn't be treated without medication, which is false. So technically you would have been wrong...not that it matters really

Pinker · 13-09-2007 02:46AM

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

Mental illness is a chemical inbalance in the brain is it? How could that possibly be treated without medication if that was the case? Don't pretend to know what you're talking about when you don't.

All your thoughts are as a result of 'chemicals' in the brain, the varying amounts of which can affect your mood. And yes you can treat mental illness without medication: cognitive behavioural therapy, psychotherapy, counselling, physical exercise, the right diet, friends, family that support you etc, these all affect the chemical balance of your brain. Your mind/brain is a biological device and is a formation of neurons, chemicals and electrical charges.

13-09-2007 02:50AM

So Glad wrote:

I was told and can now confirm that a young girl aged 15 I think it was, received her Junior Cert results today and failed one or two subjects. Because of this, she decided to jump in front of a train at Howth Junction station, right beside where I live.

There had to be a LOT MORE to this than just failing one or two subjects!:eek:

Pinker · 13-09-2007 02:57AM

indough wrote:

What other factors cause mental illness (not disbelieving, just curious to know)? My understanding is that factors may cause mental illness, but that the illness itself was the chemical imbalance, as in the said factors cause a chemical imbalance.

CMJ, in the post I replied to you seemed to be making the point that a chemical imbalance couldn't be treated without medication, which is false. So technically you would have been wrong...not that it matters really

That really depends on the mental illness in question, the brain is the last frontier of modern medicine in many ways, 1,000,000,000 neurons, the most complex phenomenon in the known universe, yes that's our humble brain. Anyway my point is that as the brain is so somplex each mental illness has its own supposed causes.

Schizophrenia for example has been shown to have some genetic basis, it was long thought to have been caused by ones environment, in particular a 'cold mother', but thats no longer supported.

Depression has been linked to depressed levels of serotonin, but which causes which,.. the low serotonin or the depression?, chicken or the egg? so to speak. Depression can most definitely be caused by life circumstances although some people are more prone than others, why exactly we don't know yet. Diet is another big factor, as is alcohol abuse. In Ireland since 1995 alcohol usage has increased by 100%, in the same period of time suicide rates have increased 100%, I'm not saying one is definitely caused by the other but it is food for thought.

Other times someone may wake up in a town and have no idea who they are or where they are for that matter, rare as this is it happens. In a recent case a young man was found in a confused state, it transpire after months of investigation he had been kidnapped and gang raped. The ordeal was so traumatic his mind blanked it and evrything else out, this state of amnesia is usually temporary.

I hope that answers your query somewhat.

Dalfiatach · 13-09-2007 03:33AM

So Glad wrote:

Yes, it is not for one second "learning". It is how good you are at repeating things unquestionably.

The Murder Machine, Pearse called it. Because it is specifically designed to murder individuality, self-expression, the ability to rationally and logically think your own way through a problem...our education system crushes free thinking, enforces mind-numbing conformity, and churns out a nation of servile sheep who only know how to mindlessly parrot What Everybody Knows.

He was right about that in 1913, and it remains just as true today:

Padraig Pearse wrote:

Modem education systems are elaborate pieces of machinery devised by highly-salaried officials for the purpose of turning out citizens according to certain approved patterns. The modem school is a State-controlled institution designed to produce workers for the State, and is in the same category which a dockyard, or any other State-controlled institution which produces articles necessary to the progress, well-being, and defence of the State. We speak of the ‘efficiency’, the ‘cheapness’ and the ‘up-to-dateness' of an education system just as we speak of the ‘efficiency’, the ‘cheapness’ and the ‘up-to-dateness' of a system of manufacturing coal-gas.

As to your original rant, well said. I've said the same thing myself to that parasitic generation of vampires currently running this country - the youngsters are opting out of your society because your system stinks and offers them nothing but a lifetime of slavery. The kids aren't stupid, they know the life they are being herded into sucks.

Call Me Jimmy · 13-09-2007 03:49AM

Look I was questioning that poster's logic and the way they said it was like outside factors couldn't be the reason for something like depression because mental illness is caused by "chemical imbalances". Implying that there is just this unexplainable loss of chemicals or something, that was my point. I know that technically you could say that all mental illness is a chemical imbalance but that is at the low level. My point is that if there is a chemical imbalance it is caused mostly by external factors.

indough · 13-09-2007 04:09AM

You'd be right to say that, the world we live in does affect our mental state, but I don't think that any change in society can be held accountable for this girl's suicide.

There have always been obstacles in peoples lives which have the potential to cause depression, it's not simply a symptom of a problem in our society.

It is most likely the individuals inability to cope with these situations that makes them susceptible to the condition rather than the society in which they live, but that's just my own opinion on the matter.

Either way it's a terribly sad story, the kind that forces you to ponder on your own priorities in life. My heart really goes out to the girl, her family and anyone suffering from depression for whatever reason.

Call Me Jimmy · 13-09-2007 04:30AM

indough wrote:

You'd be right to say that, the world we live in does affect our mental state, but I don't think that any change in society can be held accountable for this girl's suicide.

There have always been obstacles in peoples lives which have the potential to cause depression, it's not simply a symptom of a problem in our society.

It is most likely the individuals inability to cope with these situations that makes them susceptible to the condition rather than the society in which they live, but that's just my own opinion on the matter.

Either way it's a terribly sad story, the kind that forces you to ponder on your own priorities in life. My heart really goes out to the girl, her family and anyone suffering from depression for whatever reason.

I never said that this girls problem was anything to do with society, if you were replying to me, I was just saying that many mental illnesses (if not all) are caused by external factors.

EDIT: I noticed from a couple posts I missed that ye probably weren't replying to me.

So Glad · 13-09-2007 08:29PM

Good to see this was front page news today.

thelordofcheese · 13-09-2007 08:38PM

So Glad wrote:

Yes, it is not for one second "learning". It is how good you are at repeating things unquestionably.

Thats because, no matter how much time and effort you put into it, 2 + 2 is not equal to 5.

nyarlothothep · 13-09-2007 09:13PM

Two things,

Firstly its silly to attribute depression solely to a chemical imbalance, its caused either by genetics, environmental factors or a mixture of both.

Secondly that Pearse quote was really enlightening, his description is fairly accurate. The education system doesn't really tailor towards understanding stuff, but repeating it verbatim to pass exams, to get points then go into college. Our society has a lot of flaws, the main one is the quality of leadership. However, living now, despite all the rampant materialism, decline of communal sentiments etc, is not as bad as living as one of the great unwashed circa 1400, circa 1800, circa 1900. Things have improved to some extent. In comparison to the guillotine for freely expressing yourself back in the day of monarchies or meeting the wrath of a psychotic warlord named Vlad at least we have a semblance of democracy now. That said this society has flaws which need to be remedied. The competitive culture, the whole promotion of the notion of what being a success is - having loadsa money, big car... -it suits some but not everyone and it shouldn't be the case that it seems like its the only path in life to follow. Also the transport system, health service yadda yadda.

TPD · 13-09-2007 09:30PM

The papers arent reporting this as suicide yet are they? I was reading about it today, referred to it as a 'tragic incident' (not accident). Someone from the family asked that the media doesn't put a spin on it.

Please, please.....look around.

Comments