Please, please.....look around.

So Glad

I was told and can now confirm that a young girl aged 15 I think it was, received her Junior Cert results today and failed one or two subjects. Because of this, she decided to jump in front of a train at Howth Junction station, right beside where I live.

You most likely won't find this in the news.

I know there is a thread about it here, but I wish to ask a favor of you all. Look around the world you are creating for your children. Look at what it is doing. The pressure put upon this child by the schools and (possibly) the parents, who don't know what the REAL priorities in life are anyways made her give up the WILL to live. This child was lead down the path of illusory life-goals, handed down and given the stamp of approval by the powers that be, and given to the schools (AKA robot factories) that pat you on the back and give you a gold star for being repeaters....and if you disagree with this, or FAIL this, you fail life.....and will live a sad, lonely, poor, meaningless life. As if it isn't already like that anyways.

Please, take this, and other things like the kids who are smoking pot and getting drunk younger and younger by the day, and developing terrible mental illnesses as a SLIGHT HINT, that the society you're working for, DOESN'T WORK and it's killing us.

Please, please, realize this.

Cue the personal insults...:rolleyes:

Heyes

So Glad wrote:

I was told and can now confirm that a young girl aged 15 I think it was, received her Junior Cert results today and failed one or two subjects. Because of this, she decided to jump in front of a train at Howth Junction station, right beside where I live.

You most likely won't find this in the news.

I know there is a thread about it here, but I wish to ask a favor of you all. Look around the world you are creating for your children. Look at what it is doing. The pressure put upon this child by the schools and (possibly) the parents, who don't know what the REAL priorities in life are anyways made her give up the WILL to live. This child was lead down the path of illusory life-goals, handed down and given the stamp of approval by the powers that be, and given to the schools (AKA robot factories) that pat you on the back and give you a gold star for being repeaters....and if you disagree with this, or FAIL this, you fail life.....and will live a sad, lonely, poor, meaningless life. As if it isn't already like that anyways.

Please, take this, and other things like the kids who are smoking pot and getting drunk younger and younger by the day, and developing terrible mental illnesses as a SLIGHT HINT, that the society you're working for, DOESN'T WORK and it's killing us.

Please, please, realize this.

Cue the personal insults...:rolleyes:

No personal insults required, well said.

So Glad

Heyes wrote:

No personal insults required, well said.

I really appreciate that.

OctavarIan

So Glad wrote:

I was told and can now confirm that a young girl aged 15 I think it was, received her Junior Cert results today and failed one or two subjects. Because of this, she decided to jump in front of a train at Howth Junction station, right beside where I live.

Do you know for a fact that she jumped in front of the train because of this? There had to be more to it than that. As someone who has done the Junior Cert within the past 4 years, there is nowhere near enough pressure to warrant a suicide. If you don't the grade it just means you work a bit harder in 5th year to get what you want. The students know this, why someone would jump in front of an oncoming train over it makes no sense at all. There was obviously something deeper and underlying to the death.

[edit]But good excuse for a rant and well taken OP

So Glad

OctavarIan wrote:

Do you know for a fact that she jumped in front of the train because of this? There had to be more to it than that. As someone who has done the Junior Cert within the past 4 years, there is nowhere near enough pressure to warrant a suicide. If you don't the grade it just means you work a bit harder in 5th year to get what you want. The students know this, why someone would jump in front of an oncoming train over it makes no sense at all. There was obviously something deeper and underlying to the death.

[edit]But good excuse for a rant and well taken OP

Mate, I think the fact that it was the day that she got the results and the fact she was obviously distraught about her results that would hint to the reason she did it.

I also sincerely appreciate you agreeing with me

Naikon

In fairness, the "Education" system in second level is a circus and somewhat dehumanises the definition of the word "learning".

So Glad

Yes, it is not for one second "learning". It is how good you are at repeating things unquestionably.

Naikon

So Glad wrote:

Yes, it is not for one second "learning". It is how good you are at repeating things unquestionably.

If the SEC had their way, we would all conform to tight rigid rules,regulations and guidelines, and have no understanding of the term "personal judgement":D

OctavarIan

So Glad wrote:

Mate, I think the fact that it was the day that she got the results and the fact she was obviously distraught about her results that would hint to the reason she did it.

Nah, it was more likely the last straw on top of whatever ongoing problems she already had. But it's pointless to speculate when we don't know anything. This isn't the Maddie McCann thread

So Glad wrote:

I also sincerely appreciate you agreeing with me

I don't agree with you When I said 'well taken', I meant you took the opportunity of a suicide to have a rant on today's society well.

Smellyirishman

So Glad wrote:

Yes, it is not for one second "learning". It is how good you are at repeating things unquestionably.

You're being over dramatic now. Your initial point did have merit though.

marco murphy

So Glad wrote:

Mate, I think the fact that it was the day that she got the results and the fact she was obviously distraught about her results that would hint to the reason she did it.

I also sincerely appreciate you agreeing with me

Nothing to do with the ''alcohol free'' Junior Cert Parties no?

So Glad

Smellyirishman wrote:

You're being over dramatic now. Your initial point did have merit though.

Over dramatic? I've just come out of the school conveyor belt system a few years ago now and have first hand experience.

Your own opinions and thoughts do not matter. As long as you can repeat what you're told, you're ok.

Clare Bear

That's so sad People don't realise the pressure put on young people sometimes.

OctavarIan

So Glad wrote:

Your own opinions and thoughts do not matter. As long as you can repeat what you're told, you're ok.

They're testing your academic skills, not you as a person. Besides at that age your opinions and thoughts are wildly different from your grown-up ones, so why should they set foundations for what you do with your life.

Nevyn

It is not jsut the education system is the process that pushed both parents out of the home to work and not getting home until after 7pm and they do not know their kids.

They can give thier kids money which gets spent on drugs and drink but they not part of thier children's lives.

So Glad

OctavarIan wrote:

They're testing your academic skills, not you as a person. Besides at that age your opinions and thoughts are wildly different from your grown-up ones, so why should they set foundations for what you do with your life.

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say the kids are more intelligent and "Grown-up" than most adult. Hence why adults find the need to indoctrinate them and to make them walk as they do.

Smellyirishman

So Glad wrote:

Your own opinions and thoughts do not matter. As long as you can repeat what you're told, you're ok.

Getting way off topic now, but learning is not too far away from repetition, particularly in regards to most LC topics. Chemistry, Physics, Maths etc... now, I'm sure they'd listen if you came up with a ground breaking new proof backed up by unarguable evidence.

Smellyirishman

Thaedydal wrote:

It is not jsut the education system is the process that pushed both parents out of the home to work and not getting home until after 7pm and they do not know their kids.

They can give thier kids money which gets spent on drugs and drink but they not part of thier children's lives.

Very true, unfortunatly.

So Glad

Smellyirishman wrote:

Getting way off topic now, but learning is not too far away from repetition, particularly in regards to most LC topics. Chemistry, Physics, Maths etc... now, I'm sure they'd listen if you came up with a ground breaking new proof backed up by unarguable evidence.

Some people don't want to learn new things, no matter what evidence is presented. But yes, we're getting off-topic.

Anyone got any more news on this girl?

eoin5

School kills people, fact!

Bottle_of_Smoke

OctavarIan wrote:

Do you know for a fact that she jumped in front of the train because of this? There had to be more to it than that. As someone who has done the Junior Cert within the past 4 years, there is nowhere near enough pressure to warrant a suicide. If you don't the grade it just means you work a bit harder in 5th year to get what you want. The students know this, why someone would jump in front of an oncoming train over it makes no sense at all. There was obviously something deeper and underlying to the death.

[edit]But good excuse for a rant and well taken OP

It could have been a substantial part, but you're right, we'd be seeing a lot more suicides if it was the sole reason.

That said our year head consistantly talked about how school is never worth jumping into the liffey over.

Poor girl

OctavarIan

So Glad wrote:

Actually, I'd be more inclined to say the kids are more intelligent and "Grown-up" than most adult. Hence why adults find the need to indoctrinate them and to make them walk as they do.

I can only lol at this.

So the adults are purposely dulling the intelligence of the kids because the kids are more intelligent than most adults?

Adults, is this true? :eek:

So Glad

OctavarIan wrote:

I can only lol at this.

So the adults are purposely dulling the intelligence of the kids because the kids are more intelligent than most adults?

Adults, is this true? :eek:

Look at the world which a child would like to create.

Then look at the world adults are currently creating.

I think children are smarter.

OctavarIan

So Glad wrote:

Look at the world which a child would like to create.

Then look at the world adults are currently creating.

I think children are smarter.

Colourful brick houses would do my head in after a while. Plus the giant hands moving cars around would get in each others way.

[edit]No in all seriousness, think about what you're saying for a few seconds before you post it :S

Doctor DooM

This world is not as this adult would like to create. Not a cogent argument. Unless you had the world a children could actually create available for viewing.

littlebitdull

So Glad wrote:

Please, take this, and other things like the kids who are smoking pot and getting drunk younger and younger by the day, and developing terrible mental illnesses as a SLIGHT HINT, that the society you're working for, DOESN'T WORK and it's killing us.

:

Why would you suggest that society is creating an illness?

Mental illness is an illness... it is a chemical inbalance in the brain. It can and does get treated with medication. And in some cases it can be treated without medication, but its a different type of treatment.

Its is an illness.

Not a sign of the times....

1huge1

So Glad wrote:

I was told and can now confirm that a young girl aged 15 I think it was, received her Junior Cert results today and failed one or two subjects. Because of this, she decided to jump in front of a train at Howth Junction station, right beside where I live.

You most likely won't find this in the news.

I know there is a thread about it here, but I wish to ask a favor of you all. Look around the world you are creating for your children. Look at what it is doing. The pressure put upon this child by the schools and (possibly) the parents, who don't know what the REAL priorities in life are anyways made her give up the WILL to live. This child was lead down the path of illusory life-goals, handed down and given the stamp of approval by the powers that be, and given to the schools (AKA robot factories) that pat you on the back and give you a gold star for being repeaters....and if you disagree with this, or FAIL this, you fail life.....and will live a sad, lonely, poor, meaningless life. As if it isn't already like that anyways.

Please, take this, and other things like the kids who are smoking pot and getting drunk younger and younger by the day, and developing terrible mental illnesses as a SLIGHT HINT, that the society you're working for, DOESN'T WORK and it's killing us.

Please, please, realize this.

Cue the personal insults...:rolleyes:

I've never really thought about it like that but I agree with you, well put

pretty-in-pink

Of course our society is messed up. Its all about getting pleasure, but nobody teaches you how to deal with the consequences. We have messed ourselves up, and I don't think we can get back the good things we have. Its a pretty sad world we live in, and people are looking for answers, release and acceptance from drink, drugs, sex and other things they are not able to fit in. The pressure of being "cool" as an adult are far worse as a teenager, and everything seems so much more important then it actually is when you're going through it.

You get judged on everything, there are very few safe havens anymore, and thats so sad, because the lack of genuinely comfortable with themselves people is dwindling. More and more people are experimenting wildly to find their place, and getting lst on the way. How many of us have done things our parents would be shocked at? Trust me, its worse people get. Girls younger then me have had more drink, sexual partners etc then me. Thats just wrong.

Whos to blame? Tradition says the media (fair point), but the media is driven by us. Its a vicious circle, and its the kids who end up being the worst affected by it.

homah_7ft

Yeah everything was perfect in the past. The truth of the matter is that there has always been pressure on people within all societies. People have always used drugs and sex as a form of escapism. Things are not getting worse.

Terry

pretty-in-pink wrote:

The pressure of being "cool" as an adult are far worse as a teenager, and everything seems so much more important then it actually is when you're going through it.

I'll have to disagree with that.

I'm 31 and I really couldn't give a flying fúck what anyone thinks of me.

If you don't like me, then that's your problem.

If I'm being an arsehole, feel free to tell me. I'lltry not to upset you, or I'll walk away.

The minute you stop worrying about what others think is when you can start living life to the full.
Everyone else can fúck themselves.

Terry

homah_7ft wrote:

Yeah everything was perfect in the past. The truth of the matter is that there has always been pressure on people within all societies. People have always used drugs and sex as a form of escapism. Things are not getting worse.

100% correct.
We only notice mre these days because of increasing population and the fact that the internet gives us access to 24 hour news from around the world, not to mention close to home.

pretty-in-pink

I was speaking generallyI'm quite aware that things were never perfect, but this is a lonely society even within a crowd. look at pi. the amount of people who can't make friends, or confide in their friends because of how they think it will make them look.

Suicide is way up amongst the quite young and the quite old.

its intrisic pressure with enviromental factors playing a smaller part for girls, extrinsic for boys.

Its all down to fear- to afraid to live. And so many teenages who do it (or attempt it, and survive to explain it) do so withou being really aware that this means its over. forever. A permanent solution to a temporary problem. It like a "yeah well see what I can do, what do you think now" fingers up to the world

Kinetic^

pretty-in-pink wrote:

The pressure of being "cool" as an adult are far worse as a teenager, and everything seems so much more important then it actually is when you're going through it.

Are you saying there's more pressure to be cool as an adult or teenage because I can't understand what dialect you're trying to communicate in!!

Mr.Nice Guy

homah_7ft wrote:

The truth of the matter is that there has always been pressure on people within all societies. People have always used drugs and sex as a form of escapism. Things are not getting worse.

Don't agree with that. Suicide rates are on the up, dangerous crime is on the up. Society seems bleaker.

I think part of the problem is the greater emphasis on status in the modern era which brings with it more pressure. Kids are basically following a path that has been set out for them which is along these lines:

J. Cert => L. Cert => Degree/Diploma => Well-paid job => Happy ever after

And if things go awry and they deviate from this path ever so slightly it can seem like a crisis of gigantic proportions. In reality, it isn't. Schools need to make young people aware of this.

pretty-in-pink

Kenny 5 wrote:

Are you saying there's more pressure to be cool as an adult or teenage because I can't understand what dialect you're trying to communicate in!!

ok, think i left a word out, I meant that its hard enough for some people to fit in as adults, and that its much harder as a teenager. kids are crueler, and less accepting of differences etc

Call Me Jimmy

OctavarIan wrote:

Nah, it was more likely the last straw on top of whatever ongoing problems she already had. But it's pointless to speculate when we don't know anything. This isn't the Maddie McCann thread

You speculate, then say it's pointless to speculate?

And your speculation is not more likely, you don't know her as you said, even if you did you probably wouldn't know why she did this.

TPD

Now Denial: To tell oneself that the only time worth living in is the past and that the only time that may ever be interesting again is the future.

Wishbone Ash

I did the Inter Cert in 1984 and the Leaving Certificate in 1986. The country was on it's knees then. How can people think that there is more pressure on pupils nowadays? It was almost impossible then to get what would now be called a 'minimum wage' job. All the way through secondary school, we were told that there were no jobs out there. It certainly made learning Latin and Greek seem futile but we must have been a resilient bunch. I've never been un employed here even though, at the time, everyone was going to the USA.

Candidates for interview were shortlisted using ridiculous methods like the colour of pen used or the amount of folds on the form. My older sister went for an interview in 1985. There were 20 positions and 2,000 applicants. (She got it). The same job is now being done by foreigners.

This tragic event this morning had nothing to do with the junior Certificate or the pressures involved. If it wasn't today , it would have been some other day.

delta_bravo

So Glad wrote:

the fact she was obviously distraught about her results that would hint to the reason she did it.

Fact? How do you know this? I have yet to see it in any papers' websites. And how do you know she was "obviously" distraught? Were you there? Did you know her?

Also, I dont agree that there is too much pressure placed on students for the junior cert. They know it is not a highly important exam, they are not fools. However, that does not stop people from studying for it. I think people need to hold judgement on this girl's situation or the education system until the facts actually appear

The guy

Is it a generational thing to blame society nowadays?

The "In my day..." attitude.

Doctor DooM

The guy wrote:

Is it a generational thing to blame society nowadays?

The "In my day..." attitude.

I reckon everyone probably does it at some point... more like a nostalgia thing.

Wishbone Ash

SDooM wrote:

I reckon everyone probably does it at some point... more like a nostalgia thing.

When someone took their own life 20 or 30 years ago I don't ever remember anyone talking about 'pressure'.

Spyral

I know there is a thread about it here, but I wish to ask a favor of you all. Look around the world you are creating for your children. Look at what it is doing. The pressure put upon this child by the schools and (possibly) the parents, who don't know what the REAL priorities in life are anyways made her give up the WILL to live. This child was lead down the path of illusory life-goals, handed down and given the stamp of approval by the powers that be, and given to the schools (AKA robot factories) that pat you on the back and give you a gold star for being repeaters....and if you disagree with this, or FAIL this, you fail life.....and will live a sad, lonely, poor, meaningless life. As if it isn't already like that anyways.
..

we are the bórg
lower your inhibitions and behave like an asshole
we will rape your culture until it is all alcohol fuelled and morals break down
have a nice day

delta_bravo

Spyral wrote:

we are the bórg
lower your inhibitions and behave like an asshole
we will rape your culture until it is all alcohol fuelled and morals break down
have a nice day

Thanks for the contribution, very profound.

Doctor DooM

Wishbone Ash wrote:

When someone took their own life 20 or 30 years ago I don't ever remember anyone talking about 'pressure'.

Can you honestly say life is worse in the noughties than the eighties?

Just because the buzz word wasnt around doesnt mean that pressure wasnt abundant.

Call Me Jimmy

littlebitdull wrote:

Why would you suggest that society is creating an illness?

Mental illness is an illness... it is a chemical inbalance in the brain. It can and does get treated with medication. And in some cases it can be treated without medication, but its a different type of treatment.

Its is an illness.

Not a sign of the times....

Mental illness is a chemical inbalance in the brain is it? How could that possibly be treated without medication if that was the case? Don't pretend to know what you're talking about when you don't.

indough

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

eoin5

indough wrote:

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

Depression isnt the only mental illness. Anyways his statement is just a reducement to obscurity, why not talk about the atoms that cause depression.

From the wiki entry on clinical depression:

"Current theories regarding the risk factors and causes of clinical depression can be broadly classified into two categories, Physiological and Sociopsychological"

Physiological covers things like Neurological and Genetic causes. Sociopsychological covers stuff like life experiences and psychological factors.

Its also worth noting that depression is not fully understood yet.

Call Me Jimmy

indough wrote:

Actually, he/she does know what they're talking about. Depression is often caused by an imbalance of the chemical serotonin in the brain. Serotonin levels can be regulated with regular exercise, meaning that medication is not always necessary, and should only really be offered as a last resort (due to the often volatile nature of the depressed patient and the danger of the drugs involved). I think you might owe someone a small bit of an apology...

Nope the poster ruled out society being the problem saying that mental illness is caused by a chemical imbalance. Some forms of mental illnesses can be caused by chemical imbalances but others are caused by other factors.

[tongue in cheek]
And if I had an apology to make for (in your eyes) being wrong, then you have an apology to make for asking me to make an apology...
[/tongue in cheek]

EDIT: Poster above explains a bit more, but you've probably already read that.

indough

What other factors cause mental illness (not disbelieving, just curious to know)? My understanding is that factors may cause mental illness, but that the illness itself was the chemical imbalance, as in the said factors cause a chemical imbalance.

CMJ, in the post I replied to you seemed to be making the point that a chemical imbalance couldn't be treated without medication, which is false. So technically you would have been wrong...not that it matters really

Pinker

Call Me Jimmy wrote:

Mental illness is a chemical inbalance in the brain is it? How could that possibly be treated without medication if that was the case? Don't pretend to know what you're talking about when you don't.

All your thoughts are as a result of 'chemicals' in the brain, the varying amounts of which can affect your mood. And yes you can treat mental illness without medication: cognitive behavioural therapy, psychotherapy, counselling, physical exercise, the right diet, friends, family that support you etc, these all affect the chemical balance of your brain. Your mind/brain is a biological device and is a formation of neurons, chemicals and electrical charges.