Irish patriotism?

Terry · 17-08-2007 08:19PM

Blowfish wrote:

Irish pride is much higher than you'd think.

In my experience, when Irish people are talking to other Irish people they moan about the country, but when talking to non-nationals they say how great it is.

Nah. They just didn't ask any of the AH regulars.

Orange69 wrote:

The point is that things are much better in other countries, USA, Australia, Canada, Netherlands, France etc... And when some one says, **** this i cant live in Ireland anymore im leaving to make a better life for myself..

Have a good time.
See you in 5 years.

Orange69 · 17-08-2007 08:23PM

Terry wrote:

Have a good time.
See you in 5 years.

Your gonna come out and visit me?

Collie D · 17-08-2007 08:23PM

Orange69 wrote:

The point is that things are much better in other countries, USA, Australia, Canada, Netherlands, France etc... And when some one says, **** this i cant live in Ireland anymore im leaving to make a better life for myself..

All of a sudden they are open for attack..instead of asking ourselves why that person is leaving and what can we do to keep our talented youth in the country (other than chaining them into 40 year mortgages)..

That still doesn't explain your begrudgery comment. Also you seem to have a highly inflated opinion of yourself. I have thought about upping sticks too but have stayed on..might make the move one day. All I'm saying is the grass isn't always greener. I'm sure everything isn't perfect in those countries.

For example

USA We're a relatively safe country compared to America and our leader looks like King Solomon compared to theirs. Also, as you see the main fault with Ireland as its divisions. Wait until you check out the US. Republican/Democrat, black/white, rich/poor.....

France An extremely ethnically divided country. One of the fastest rising far-right countries in Europe...I know I could phrase that better...not implying the whole country is far right but I'm sure you get what I'm at

Netherlands I'm not too sure about but there's always the language barrier. Unless your PhD is in Dutch?

Australia and Canada I am not too sure about...maybe these are the perfect societies you seek but I doubt it, noweher's perfect

Orange69 · 17-08-2007 08:33PM

Collie D wrote:

That still doesn't explain your begrudgery comment. Also you seem to have a highly inflated opinion of yourself. I have thought about upping sticks too but have stayed on..might make the move one day. All I'm saying is the grass isn't always greener. I'm sure everything isn't perfect in those countries.

For example

USA We're a relatively safe country compared to America and our leader looks like King Solomon compared to theirs. Also, as you see the main fault with Ireland as its divisions. Wait until you check out the US. Republican/Democrat, black/white, rich/poor.....

France An extremely ethnically divided country. One of the fastest rising far-right countries in Europe...I know I could phrase that better...not implying the whole country is far right but I'm sure you get what I'm at

Netherlands I'm not too sure about but there's always the language barrier. Unless your PhD is in Dutch?

Australia and Canada I am not too sure about...maybe these are the perfect societies you seek but I doubt it, noweher's perfect

I dont have an inflated opinion of myself.. I just know that if i stay in this country when i leave uni I will most likely end up working a boring job in Dublin.. with a box falt/hefty mortgage watching in disgust as the country slowly implodes over the next 10 years due to incompetence, lack of foresight and division...

I have lived in Canada and the USA already and i can tell you that things are much greener over there..

I agree nowhere is perfect but Ireland is just ridiculous..

estebancambias · 17-08-2007 08:40PM

Holland is a police state.

Exit · 17-08-2007 08:49PM

kowloon wrote:

Who was it who said "patriotism is the belief that your country is the best because you live in it"? (thats the general idea of the quote, but i cant remember the wording or its origin)

George Bernard Shaw - "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

Terry · 17-08-2007 08:52PM

That's a really interesting site you linked to, Blowfish.

Some surprising and disturbing stats relating to Ireland.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ei/Top-Rankings

nesf · 17-08-2007 08:54PM

estebancambias wrote:

Holland is a police state.

Quit acting the idiot.

Cunny-Funt · 17-08-2007 09:34PM

Bah, this was a while ago now but I remember someone posted (it was an American forum not this one) a list which rated how proud its population was of their country/being from said country...

And believe it or not , Ireland was tied at 1st with the USA (think it numbers were 70 something % were proud to be irish/american)

It was also a massive lead over whatever country was 2nd.

I was actually not surprised by this as I have always viewed the Irish being proud to be..Irish.

We have achieved a lot in this world for such a tiny country. And we have done more good then bad.

But there is such a massive difference between how the Irish are proud to be Irish compared to how Americans are proud to be American.

We Irish take the piss out of ourselves. We would be the 1st on the list to criticise our country and its leaders. Do the same in the US and you are considered a traitor and a terrorist and so forth. Or at least there's always that element of fear there that you may be seen as such. Which is pretty damn hypercritical for a so called free country to be like...

To touch on some other points that people have made... I really like being Irish. But not so much living in Ireland

Although I have yet to stay in another country for an extended period of time , I do wonder about living in another country.

Supercell · 17-08-2007 09:48PM

Terry wrote:

That's a really interesting site you linked to, Blowfish.

Some surprising and disturbing stats relating to Ireland.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ei/Top-Rankings

Jesus, some of the stats on there are really interesting.

Take beer consumption - http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_bee_con-food-beer-consumption

It may seem funny at first glance to some, but jesus, what does this say about us?

Terry · 17-08-2007 09:53PM

Ah, that works out as less than one can per day per person.

Mind you, I'm surprised we beat the Germans.

Of course, then there's the criminal element.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_und_nei_cri_rec_hol-undesirable-neighbours-criminal-record-holders

Collie D · 17-08-2007 10:04PM

[QUOTE=Terry
Of course, then there's the criminal element.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_und_nei_cri_rec_hol-undesirable-neighbours-criminal-record-holders[/QUOTE]

Am I readin that wrong? I can't believe that 52% of the population have criminal records :eek: Did they do the survey in a prison and the other 48% were prison officers or liars?

estebancambias · 17-08-2007 10:10PM

Wow, that is high.

Terry · 17-08-2007 10:12PM

No.
I think it's 52% of people live near someone with a criminal record.
Of course, the criminal record could be anything from driving without tax to murder.

Exit · 17-08-2007 10:15PM

It's actually 52% who would dislike to have neighbours who have criminal records.

mental07 · 17-08-2007 10:16PM

estebancambias wrote:

I would love if someone had the figures of how many 18-22 year olds actually did vote in 07 election, so if you can get them for me, that would be great.

I've no figures, but I fall JUST outside that category (the wrong side

)and I for one voted. But many of my friends of the same age did not. They just didn't care, and all felt that their vote would not make a difference. A sad state of affairs really.

Collie D · 17-08-2007 10:17PM

*Re-reads stat

Oh yeah, silly me. Still a high amount but would be willing to believe that I suppose. Especially in a city where you've a higher density of population, you're more likely to have a neighbour with a criminal record. And as you say, could be for anything.

Collie D · 17-08-2007 10:18PM

Actually, reading it again I think it's the number of people who would consider a neighbour with a record as undesirable. So more a survey on attitudes.

Sam Vimes · 17-08-2007 11:34PM

Exit wrote:

What's there to be proud of? It's just a place I was born in. I could've just as easily been born in England and would be automatically expected to believe England is the greatest country on Earth.

thats exactly how i feel about patriotism. If i explain it to people they often get confused and angry. They don't understand why i see no reason to be "proud" of the achievements of people i've never met and to whom i have no more connection than i have to an english person

AlmightyCushion · 17-08-2007 11:42PM

I would consider myself patriotic. I would have loved to vote in the last election but I'm currently working in Dublin and my vote was a three hour train ride away and I would have had to take the day off work.

Terry · 17-08-2007 11:51PM

We are a unique people, just as every other nation is.
I would consider myself patriotic and would have joined the army had I not been such an arsehole when I was a teenager. I could have walked into the defence forces, as my uncle was a recruiting officer. But I was too much of a rebel ( read complete tool) to actually do it.
Looking back, I would love to have served as part of a peace keeping troop in one of the worlds troubled areas.
It would have made me proud to represent my country in that capacity.

Lirange · 18-08-2007 12:01AM

My pride in Ireland (yes pride!) derives only from the people and friends I grew up with as well as the aspects of culture that I choose to see as positive (e.g. literature, landscape, and certain social customs). It has absolutely nothing to do with politics.

JC 2K3 · 18-08-2007 12:17AM

I totally accept the cynical view that Ireland is just a piece of land. In fact, one could almost go as far to say that the idea of "Ireland" in the political sense is an 85 year old fabrication.

At the heart of it all, the rebellions in the past weren't because Irish people were "proud to be Irish", it was because the lower classes(the majority of Irish people) were being treated like shít by their rulers. If Britain hadn't been such cúnts to Ireland in the past, we'd probably be proud to be British right now.

However, in spite of all this, I love being Irish. Sure, it has no deep significance or anything, but I love supporting my country in sports, it's nice too feel proud about someone Irish achieving something good and I love the sense of unity with all these other people I've never met. Also,
when you're abroad, your nationality gives you a great sense of identity.

All that said, militant patriotism is definately a bad thing. As a light hearted and arbitrary, identity-giving trait it's grand, but some people take things way too far.

MooseJam · 18-08-2007 12:23AM

I'm a citizen of the European Union

estebancambias · 18-08-2007 12:32AM

Moosejam that opens up a can of worms. I have always thought about how we as Europeans are not united despite the fact that America talks about Europe as if it is one country, and Europe's land mass is much smaller than one country such as Canada, America or Australia(and more)

MooseJam · 18-08-2007 12:37AM

well when Russia and the Ukraine join the union we will be the biggest country in the world

18-08-2007 01:48AM

We make sure to Pat Riot every St Pat's Day with plenty of Guinness and Murphy's!

Terry · 18-08-2007 01:55AM

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

We make sure to Pat Riot every St Pat's Day with plenty of Guinness and Murphy's!

You're Irish, right?

thefinalstage · 18-08-2007 02:04AM

Terry wrote:

I think you need to bone up on your history, buddy.
There are buildings here dating back over 5,000 years.

True enough but the people who built them are long dead and so is their culture.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 18-08-2007 02:34AM

Poblachtach wrote:

Ireland has a lot to be proud of. We have a very well educated workforce, we are thought highly of throughout the world, for many different things, and this island has a lot of history. I reckon we're all pretty welcoming to the immigrants coming in in recent times. The country also held EU presidency, have a well respected peace keeping force, and overall has made it's mark on the world

Thanks.

And speaking as someone who has served this country with the United Nations many times over the last twenty two year's I can firmly back you up.

Ireland brings an almost unparalled reputation with it. We're held in the hightest esteem by any country I've visited and with every contingent I've served along side.

Of course this is mostly lost on the young people of this country, many of whom post here unfortunetly. BUt its not until the youngster's go out into the big bad world that they realise this.

Irish patriotism?

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