Irish patriotism?

estebancambias

Ok honestly before I begin I want to make it clear that this is purely question. I will attempt to write it in an unbiased manner, but some things I just can't prevent. It may appear that I'm forcing my ideas, or posting to get a reaction but honestly that is not my purpose when I post threads. So anyway that's it really.

Ok back to the topic, is it just me or do the Irish lack a sense of TRUE pride in their country? Sure we hear the usual 'up the IRA' but in reality do the people who say this even know what being right-wing details?

I will attempt to answer my own question now. Of course people we are not patriotic, how many of us know the national anthem word by word? How many of us actually care about the history of Ireland, other than the superficial tales that have been exaggerated through the years.

Then in the election that just took place, we had to resort to hacks such as Ryan Tubridy to encourage young people to 'rock the vote'. Is this what we need to get the young people of this country to vote, corny commercials with a little gesture?

I would love if someone had the figures of how many 18-22 year olds actually did vote in 07 election, so if you can get them for me, that would be great.

Honest question, how many of you have ever though about your political views. My mum's dad was a right-wing politian(with some far right ideas). I have thought about what category I fit under, but I still remain confused.

So, do you agree with me? or do you think that patiotism in Ireland is alive and well?

Please if you have no interest in discussing this, don't post. I put some thought and effort into this, and I would appreciate educated opinions. If you have a problem with this thread please ignore it, you are under no obligation to post on it.

Peace.

Exit

What's there to be proud of? It's just a place I was born in. I could've just as easily been born in England and would be automatically expected to believe England is the greatest country on Earth.

Collie D

estebancambias wrote:

Ok back to the topic, is it just me or do the Irish lack a sense of TRUE pride in their country? Sure we hear the usual 'up the IRA' but in reality do the people who say this even know what being right-wing details?

Do you equate being right-wing with being patriotic? If so, I am offended. I am definitely not right-wing but would consider myself patriotic. And shouting "Up the IRA" doesn't make you patriotic either. Just an idiot who can't leave behind old grudges and look to the future...and is usually only spouted by idiots who have no interest in polotics

estebancambias

No, not at all Collie. I hate these up the IRA people, especailly the ones without any clue of it's past.

dregin

It's funny that you sign off with the word "peace" when hardline patriotism is usually the cause of many wars, "your country needs you" and the like. It also breeds the type of racism towards immigrants that is very much on the up in this country. Saying that, I'm proud to be Irish, I sing the national anthem and I voted in the last election. I just feel that hardline patriotism is a starting point in the road towards fascism.

Terry

A thread where people post about how much we all suck.
Must be a day ending in "Y".

TwentyOneEleven

estebancambias wrote:

Ok honestly before I begin I want to make it clear that this is purely question. I will attempt to write it in an unbiased manner, but some things I just can't prevent. It may appear that I'm forcing my ideas, or posting to get a reaction but honestly that is not my purpose when I post threads. So anyway that's it really.

Ok back to the topic, is it just me or do the Irish lack a sense of TRUE pride in their country? Sure we hear the usual 'up the IRA' but in reality do the people who say this even know what being right-wing details?

I will attempt to answer my own question now. Of course people we are not patriotic, how many of us know the national anthem word by word? How many of us actually care about the history of Ireland, other than the superficial tales that have been exaggerated through the years.

Then in the election that just took place, we had to resort to hacks such as Ryan Tubridy to encourage young people to 'rock the vote'. Is this what we need to get the young people of this country to vote, corny commercials with a little gesture?

I would love if someone had the figures of how many 18-22 year olds actually did vote in 07 election, so if you can get them for me, that would be great.

Honest question, how many of you have ever though about your political views. My mum's dad was a right-wing politian(with some far right ideas). I have thought about what category I fit under, but I still remain confused.

So, do you agree with me? or do you think that patiotism in Ireland is alive and well?

Please if you have no interest in discussing this, don't post. I put some thought and effort into this, and I would appreciate educated opinions. If you have a problem with this thread please ignore it, you are under no obligation to post on it.

Peace.

Please stop making threads.

Collie D

estebancambias wrote:

No, not at all Collie. I hate these up the IRA people, especailly the ones without any clue of it's past.

Sorry, wasn't implying you were one of that variety...my post wasn't very clear. Apologies on that front and to anyone who spotted I spelt politics wrong (before I get called a moron). However, I do wonder why you feel that if you're not right-wing you're not patriotic?

mike65

I'm expecting a lot of confusing of Nationalism and Patrotism in this thread.

Mike.

Orange69

There is no unity in Ireland, division is everywhere.. Country people bitch about dublin people and vice versa.. All the regional cities are always backstabbing and bitching about who is bigger or better etc.. Its sad really..

The latest example of this is the Shannon-Heathrow thing, the way people are talking you would think Shannon is in a different country... For a small island their is zero national unity..

Tbh as soon as i finish my PhD im out of this country and never coming back.. its a mess...

estebancambias

Dregin, I actually never claimed to be a hardline patriot. In fact, this is where my confusion is. By mum for example hates the foreigners in Ireland, but she does not hate them personally, in fact she is friends with a few. Hypocritical right? I'm so tolerant of people coming to this country as it is good for our culture.

constellation

Just be human and humane.

Collie D

Orange69 wrote:

There is no unity in Ireland, division is everywhere.. Country people bitch about dublin people and vice versa.. All the regional cities are always backstabbing and bitching about who is bigger or better etc.. Its sad really..

The latest example of this is the Shannon-Heathrow thing, the way people are talking you would think Shannon is in a different country... For a small island their is zero national unity..

Tbh as soon as i finish my PhD im out of this country and never coming back.. its a mess...

And attitudes like that help how? Don't let the door hit you on the way out

estebancambias

See Collie there again, I sounded like a jerk with my reaction(no, not at all) Just so you know it was a positive response.

Oh 2111, you must like reading my threads, why else would you look at them? Don't like...simple ignore.

homah_7ft

Orange69 wrote:

There is no unity in Ireland, division is everywhere.. Country people bitch about dublin people and vice versa.. All the regional cities are always backstabbing and bitching about who is bigger or better etc.. Its sad really..

The latest example of this is the Shannon-Heathrow thing, the way people are talking you would think Shannon is in a different country... For a small island their is zero national unity..

Tbh as soon as i finish my PhD im out of this country and never coming back.. its a mess...

What perfect country are you going to?

Orange69

Collie D wrote:

And attitudes like that help how? Don't let the door hit you on the way out

Precisely the response i would expect.. The begrudgery and bitterness in the country is astounding!

Supercell

mike65 wrote:

I'm expecting a lot of confusing of Nationalism and Patrotism in this thread.

Mike.

Lollers!!, best post in this thread so far.

Pherekydes

Exit wrote:

What's there to be proud of? It's just a place I was born in. I could've just as easily been born in England and would be automatically expected to believe England is the greatest country on Earth.

Hallelujah!

And Amen.

marco murphy

Ireland has a lot to be proud of. We have a very well educated workforce, we are thought highly of throughout the world, for many different things, and this island has a lot of history. I reckon we're all pretty welcoming to the immigrants coming in in recent times. The country also held EU presidency, have a well respected peace keeping force, and overall has made it's mark on the world

Pherekydes

estebancambias wrote:

Ok back to the topic, is it just me or do the Irish lack a sense of TRUE pride in their country? Sure we hear the usual 'up the IRA' but in reality do the people who say this even know what being right-wing details?

You think people who shout "up the ra" are [Irish] patriots? :rolleyes:

estebancambias wrote:

I put some thought and effort into this...

No you didn't. :rolleyes:



Patriotism: the last refuge of a scoundrel.

marco murphy

Oh and BTW

http://irish-nationalism.net/forum/

Weirdos

Orange69

Poblachtach wrote:

Ireland has a lot to be proud of. We have a very well educated workforce, we are thought highly of throughout the world, for many different things, and this island has a lot of history. I reckon we're all pretty welcoming to the immigrants coming in in recent times. The country also held EU presidency, have a well respected peace keeping force, and overall has made it's mark on the world

Yes but lets be realistic.. we also live in a country which:

Has the worst transport system in the developed world
Has a government that makes the peanut gallery look like a Nobel prize convention
Is currently hemorrhaging jobs in all areas
Is completely dependant on foreign oil
Has no real immigration policy
Crumbling infrastructure
etc...

Overall this country is a disgrace compared to our peers..

Oh and btw the EU presidency comes around by default, its not like we did anything to deserve it..

Terry

Orange69 wrote:

Yes but lets be realistic.. we also live in a country which:

Has the worst transport system in the developed world
Has a government that makes the peanut gallery look like a Nobel prize convention
Is currently hemorrhaging jobs in all areas
Is completely dependant on foreign oil
Has no real immigration policy
Crumbling infrastructure
etc...

Overall this country is a disgrace compared to our peers..

Oh and btw the EU presidency comes around by default, its not like we did anything to deserve it..

Mostly true.
So which Utopia is it you are choosing to go to?

estebancambias

Slow Coach I hate those people. My point was that these people bull**** about the IRA yet know nothing about their past.

Hagar

How exactly do you know that? Or a you just making an unfounded assumption?

TwentyOneEleven

Hagar wrote:

Or a you just making an unfounded assumption?

Never! :eek:

estebancambias

scumbag+IRA= Misinformed views.

estebancambias

2111 I'm sure I read one of your posts on the paranormal board, were you said, you wanted someone to touch your 'private area'.

SimpleSam06

TwentyOneEleven wrote:

Please stop making threads.

Nonsense, I find this individual to be an excellent troll, piquant, rich meaty flavour, with just a hint of mulberries, and a crisp refreshing aftertaste. He loses a point on the arrangement, but all in all, a solid first effort.

However, can everyone stop feeding him and somebody please ban him.

Hagar

Who, pray tell, should inform these people you call "scumbags"? You?

You're not forgetting our present government rose out of the ashes of the old IRA via a particularly brutal civil war?

Maybe if we don't mention things like that nobody will notice?

Orange69

Terry wrote:

Mostly true.
So which Utopia is it you are choosing to go to?

I have a job offer in Vancouver Canada but i may go to the states (Boston)..

And don't get me wrong, i love the people of this country, my family and friends are here, but we just cant seem to unite and organize ourselves competently..

estebancambias

Ban me for what exactly? Why do you bother viewing my threads? I get hate because I think a little differently from you, I suggest you go and post in such educated threads such as 'how often do you poo? and 'when does being a milf begin'.
It appears to me, that they are the threads that most suit you, you know where you don't have to use any of that brain of yours.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Nonsense, I find this individual to be an excellent troll, piquant, rich meaty flavour, with just a hint of mulberries, and a crisp refreshing aftertaste. He loses a point on the arrangement, but all in all, a solid first effort.

However, can everyone stop feeding him and somebody please ban him.

homah_7ft

estebancambias wrote:

Ban me for what exactly? Why do you bother viewing my threads? I get hate because I think a little differently from you, I suggest you go and post in such educated threads such as 'how often do you poo? and 'when does being a milf begin'.
It appears to me, that they are the threads that most suit you, you know where you don't have to use any of that brain of yours.

This is AH sir.

estebancambias

Yes ok, but then when I make a thread about Timothy McVeigh(with links) I am called a troll. Oh and yes a troll is also someone who believes they are always right, I don't deny that, in fact I'm extremely argumentative. Some like it, others don't.

I just want to know the reasons behind why I should be banned.

constellation

estebancambias wrote:

Ban me for what exactly? Why do you bother viewing my threads? I get hate because I think a little differently from you, I suggest you go and post in such educated threads such as 'how often do you poo? and 'when does being a milf begin'.
It appears to me, that they are the threads that most suit you, you know where you don't have to use any of that brain of yours.

Anyone know if there is a Godwin-like rule for use of the word 'poo'?

TwentyOneEleven

estebancambias wrote:

2111 I'm sure I read one of your posts on the paranormal board, were you said, you wanted someone to touch your 'private area'.

No, I said that if they went down on me my vagina would tell their future.

estebancambias

You were banned from there right? For what reason exactly? Oh right, being a troll.

Terry

Here's an idea.
How about keeping this thread on topic.

gurramok

estebancambias wrote:

I would love if someone had the figures of how many 18-22 year olds actually did vote in 07 election, so if you can get them for me, that would be great.

When you get a few years older past that 18-22 age group and start working and paying your taxes, your view will change on things, you'll start to care what goes on around you when you try to manage the bills.

That said. nothing wrong being proud of where your from and what culture you practice, just don't force it on other people who don't want it.

TwentyOneEleven

estebancambias wrote:

You were banned from there right? For what reason exactly? Oh right, being a troll.

I was banned from there because the moderators were much too narrow-minded to comprehend my alternative takes on the paranormal.

estebancambias

gurramok, can you just explain your first point. As in just elaborate on it, I just want to see were your coming from because it sounds interesting.

Look my problem is I'm not proud of being Irish, however I am trying to be. I know it should be simple you either like the place or not, but not for me. I want to feel that love and connection with my country, but unfortunately I can't find it. Maby the army would help?

SimpleSam06

estebancambias wrote:

Ban me for what exactly?

Trolling, to whit, someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community such as an online discussion forum in order to bait users into responding.

estebancambias wrote:

Why do you bother viewing my threads?

There are so many of them, its hard to avoid them at this stage.

estebancambias wrote:

I get hate because I think a little differently from you, I suggest you go and post in such educated threads such as 'how often do you poo? and 'when does being a milf begin'.

Education has nothing to do with it. You're trying to stir people up by posting deliberately flamebait-ey topics, which by the way is against the forum charter, and for excellent reasons:

Making the natives restless
- This is a catch-all rule for general trolling, bitching and similar. Certain posters have an ability to piss off large quanties of regulars on here. If a moderator feels that said poster is doing this intentionally or is the cause of the mess, then the poster can and will be banned. If this poster was being goaded by others, then they'll be the ones getting banned. This rule will hopefully put an end to the bitching going on in here of late.

Poo and milfs are not trolling, since they only stir up a very small minority of the viewing population (when combined at any rate). Threads like "I support Timothy McVeigh", and "Irish Patriotism-where is it gone" are a different bucket of beans entirely.

estebancambias

Oh ok, perhaps I misunderstood the whole point of this board, but I do not support McVeigh's actions one bit. There are things that does fascinate me about both McVeigh the man, and the 'terroist' but I won't be getting into that.

TwentyOneEleven

estebancambias wrote:

gurramok, can you just explain your first point. As in just elaborate on it, I just want to see were your coming from because it sounds interesting.

Look my problem is I'm not proud of being Irish, however I am trying to be. I know it should be simple you either like the place or not, but not for me. I want to feel that love and connection with my country, but unfortunately I can't find it. Maby the army would help?

Why the fúck do you want to feel that love and connection to Ireland? I mean ffs, it's just a mass of land. Love your neighbours, your friends, yore ma, your fúcking television but why do you need to love Ireland? I mean fúck, if you lived in China would you want to love that? If you lived in Mexico, would you want to love that? You probably would, and what exactly is the point? You just want to love it because you live here, and that's a retarded reason tbh. Don't ever try to love something. You either love it or you don't. I mean, christ.

SimpleSam06

estebancambias wrote:

Oh ok, perhaps I misunderstood the whole point of this board, but I do not support McVeigh's actions one bit. There are things that does fascinate me about both McVeigh the man, and the 'terroist' but I won't be getting into that.

He was a lowbrow redneck who felt solidarity with the muppets in Waco and was riding the wife of his partner in crime, in all likelihood with that individual's assent. A class act all round, but I won't be getting into that. No more food for you, trolley!

thefinalstage

We the Irish as a whole have very little patriotism. We are neutral so no weird propoganda or foreign attacks on us to stir any up. Our history is full of worthless tales of people getting drunk and attacking the English. We never really had any true culture develop because we got our asses assimilated early on. Even the Irish language (which patriots seem to pride) was an import.

We have no reason for patriotism, we have no real identity and no culture of our own.

estebancambias

estebancambias wrote:

gurramokLook my problem is I'm not proud of being Irish, however I am trying to be. I know it should be simple you either like the place or not, but not for me. I want to feel that love and connection with my country, but unfortunately I can't find it. Maby the army would help?

Would you like it if we were more like the states where everyone has the nations flags hanging from wherever they could put them?
How would being in the army help foster a love of your country?

Terry

thelastangryman wrote:

We the Irish as a whole have very little patriotism. We are neutral so no weird propoganda or foreign attacks on us to stir any up. Our history is full of worthless tales of people getting drunk and attacking the English. We never really had any true culture develop because we got our asses assimilated early on. Even the Irish language (which patriots seem to pride) was an import.

We have no reason for patriotism, we have no real identity and no culture of our own.

I think you need to bone up on your history, buddy.
There are buildings here dating back over 5,000 years.

estebancambias

McVeigh came from a middle-class home, just like you or I.

Also sorry, I never read the rules of this forum, so you can be assured this will be the last politically orientated thread by me.

Fremen

So, do you agree with me? or do you think that patiotism in Ireland is alive and well?

I'd like to get a more specific definition of exactly what you think patriotism is, so far you've just said 'pride in your country'. Pride about what, exactly? Is patriotism a good thing?

I think there's something to be said for having an interest in the history of your country, and any culture that goes along with it, but I don't think it's hugely important. No more important than, say, having an interest in literature. I certainly wouldn't look down on anyone who just didn't care.

However, most "patriots" I know are not exactly what I'd call "Gaeilgeoirs". They just have the attitude "I come frome zone of administration A, you come from zone of administration B. Therefore I am superior. Hooray!".

Hagar

estabancambias wrote:

you can be assured this will be the last politically orientated thread by me

Thank Christ for that.