Related to Americans.

Capt'n Midnight · 12-08-2007 01:39PM

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry?

Could you not try to find your rich American relative and bleed then for all they are worth ?

faceman · 12-08-2007 03:05PM

Lirange wrote:

If only so-called "Irish" Americans left such a mark. Aside from JFK nostalgia, it's Bill O, Rosie O, and the rest of the muppets nowadays.

not true. Irish americans are believed to have invented common slang used today.

this book is very entertaining.

http://www2.akpress.org/2007/items/howtheirishinventedslang

Dev 17 · 12-08-2007 03:23PM

I don't know why it annoys people that Americans like the Irish and we are welcomed over there. Or the fact that many Americans claim Irish heritage. On these boards I have seen a lot of posts charged with anti American sentiment. Claims that Americans can't point to Ireland on a map or Americans are idiots are nonsense. These claims are made by people who often have never been to American and the few Americans they have met judge the rest of the country as if they were elected ambassadors.

I think people get a secret thrill reffering to Americans being someway inferior and our superior "intellect" trumps them in every way.

SimpleSam06 · 12-08-2007 04:51PM

estebancambias wrote:

Ironically I have traced my background from my dad's side. Like alot of Irish, I have Northern Spanish blood(I don't know if much people know this) it's like the Welsh having Roman blood.

Is that your myspace link in your sig? If so, why do you have "I WISH I WAS AMERICAN!!!!" in the about yourself section, and claim you are from the Ukraine?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 12-08-2007 04:53PM

Dev 17 wrote:

I think people get a secret thrill reffering to Americans being someway inferior and our superior "intellect" trumps them in every way.

there's nothing secret about it!

challengemaster · 12-08-2007 05:28PM

The-Rigger wrote:

In my experience, most americans don't know where Ireland is....

well, most don't know seem to know where anywhere is.

lol, so so true.

-» (american accent) So, where y'all from?
-> Ireland
-» Where?
-> uh... Ireland?!?
-» Never heard of it
-> ...
-> You know where England is?
-» omg you're from England?!
-> No... *sigh*

Dev 17 · 12-08-2007 05:47PM

Mate, I'm not saying there aren't stupid Americans. There are, unfortunately. However there is the same proportion of stupid people in Ireland.

The whole country being stupid…I don't think so. It show the height of ignorance to even say something like that and reflects badly on Irish people in my opinion.

The Irish are already making a bad name for themselves. J1's going to San Diego are finding it harder and harder to get sorted with accommodation as there are horror stories of Irish people (students) wrecking an apartment before they leave and landlords have said to mates of mine that they wouldn't take them because they're Irish.

So please slate Bush all you want. But don't label every American being a Right Wing Bush evangelical.

Dev

pvt. joker · 12-08-2007 05:57PM

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry? I resent the way that Irish people think that Americans love us, this is not the case. Also they are Americans, not Italian-American, not Irish-American, not African-American....nothing.

Maybe because about 12% of americans have irish ancestry? I don't even understand the point of this thread. There was nothing to eat in ireland 100+ years ago. There was no work. Irish people fled their country and moved to america in droves. Hence the high percentage of americans with irish heritage

wiki wrote:

Irish Americans (Irish: Gael-Mheiriceánach) are citizens of the United States who can claim ancestry originating in the west European nation of Ireland. A total of 34,668,723 Americans (12% of total population) reported Irish ancestry in the 2005 American Community Survey[2] The only self-reported ancestral group larger than Irish Americans are German Americans.[3]. Note that this does not include those reporting Scots-Irish ancestry, who are counted separately.

pvt. joker · 12-08-2007 05:59PM

The-Rigger wrote:

In my experience, most americans don't know where Ireland is....

well, most don't know seem to know where anywhere is.

just like most irish probably couldn't point out Wyoming on a map.

insafehands · 12-08-2007 06:00PM

challengemaster wrote:

lol, so so true.

-» (american accent) So, where y'all from?
-> Ireland
-» Where?
-> uh... Ireland?!?
-» Never heard of it
-> ...
-> You know where England is?
-» omg you're from England?!
-> No... *sigh*

You never actually had that conversation, or one like it, did you?

Echelle · 12-08-2007 06:26PM

The Irish american thing is a hugely hyped up political ruse. OK there are lots of so called Irish Americans, but I bet a huge amount of these also can claim some percentage of English, French, German, Russian Italian etc. blood, as there has been a huge amount of inter racial marriages over the years. We only hear about the Irish bit , because the Americans have been duped to think we care more about those with Irish blood....as if we give a hoot, but bord Failte (if it is still called that) has been milking this one for years.
So what if many Americans could'nt place Ireland on a map?How many of you out there could find somewhere like Burma, for example, a country with over 40 million people,on the map? The Irish generally are very parochial on an international scale, we are pretty insignificant so dont think Dublin is the centre of the world, and dont be surprised if that barman in that non irish pub in the USA never heard of Cork, Galway or Waterford.

challengemaster · 12-08-2007 06:28PM

Most Americans cant even do that!! nevermind the Irish doing it. (point out wyoming)

challengemaster · 12-08-2007 06:29PM

insafehands wrote:

You never actually had that conversation, or one like it, did you?

actually yes, yes i did.. MANY times

louisecm · 12-08-2007 06:47PM

Saruman wrote:

estebancambias im curious. You seem to have a serious oppinion on this matter. Im just curious:
1) how much time you have spent in the US?
2) How many Americans are you related to?
3) How many Americans do you know very well?

Im just curious. Im assuming you are not just spouting ignorant rubbish based on anecdotes you have heard. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Im assuming you are basing all this on first hand experience of the US and its people.

I second that. Can we have a little more info on what these opinions are based on?

Also, I feel it is completely understandable that Americans have a greater interest in their heritage than people in Europe and other parts of the world. Their country is only 200 years old, in terms of countries that is a child. And what is wrong with a child a) being curious about where they came from and b) being proud of it when they find out?

I spent 10 years in the US (moved there when 7 and back when 17) and I have to say the positivity about people's heritage is a lovely thing. I know lots about customs and cultures from random places around the globe because we were taught about them in school in the US and celebrated all kinds of holidays in the classroom. I never felt so proud to be Irish as I did in the States - where is the harm in that? It seems like kind of a waste of energy to get worked up about something that in the end is positive.

Finally, there are a lot of generalisations being made here about Americans. There are both ignorant and informed people in every country.

indough · 12-08-2007 06:59PM

estebancambias wrote:

About the Italian-American, Irish-American etc.. why does nobody call themselves English-American?

Because they just think of themselves as American, as in the original Americans, although we all know what happened to the real natives.

Think of it this way, noone originally lived in Ireland, so the people who originally colonized had to come from somewhere else. But if your family were from the original group of colonials, you'd call yourself Irish. Now on the other hand if your parents moved here from say Spain or somewhere, you'd be more likely to recognize your other heritage also.

Lirange · 12-08-2007 08:31PM

Talliesin wrote:

There is a large favouring of the Democrat party amongst wealthy Irish-American people who still have some sense (whether realistic or nearly mythological) of their working class roots. Added to that the mythologising of a particular Democrat president of Irish descent, and it's perceived as helpful to a Democrat and harmful to a Republican to have Irish roots.

A substantial portion of the Ulster emigrants went to the South and are very much part of the redneck conservative powerbase. Although they use the term Scots-Irish? That term makes no sense to me. There's that hyphen again.

But you're spot on about the Irish emigrants of the 19th century that went to the cities in the North. The political urban machines established a tradition of favouring the Democrats amongst Irish Catholics.

Terry wrote:

You're completely right, but the Americans themselves don't seem to realise it.

They're not satisfied with having a contemporary culture they want a heritage. One that's goes beyond a couple centuries.

faceman wrote:

not true. Irish americans are believed to have invented common slang used today.

this book is very entertaining.

http://www2.akpress.org/2007/items/howtheirishinventedslang

I should have typed in the present tense "are making their mark." My comment is just perception nothing else. It seems so many of the prominent "Irish" Americans today are quite grating.

yankinlk · 12-08-2007 08:52PM

scitpo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. You're only fully Irish in my mind if your parents were born here and you were brought up in Ireland as well.

I love this old chestnut. So since you are nominating yourself as judge and jury of all that is "real" Irish can you give me a ruling on a few scenarios?

1. Mother and Grand Mother Irish. Born in America - Father American. Return to Ireland where discover hey, im pale, hairy and hate sand in my swimsuit just like the rest of these lads. Am i Irish?

2. American Father, Irish Mother. Children born in Ireland - have the pale skin and lucky charms accents - are we Irish?

3. Samantha Mumba marries Seamus Murphy - settles down in Kerry and raises a brood. Are these children Irish?

4. Mother and Father 100% real Irish Born. Travel to UK for 5 years to work. While overseas raise 3 children but bring them back to Ireland at school going age (before kids pick up the local accent) - are they Irish?

I guess my point is that by your reckoning - the Irish are an ever shrinking race of people. You are saying that ONLY people that were born from 100% Irish Parents, never leave the rock and raise their children here can then have Irish children that in turn can do the same. Jeez, the way the Irish travel these days you are eventually going to eliminate a huge portion of potential "real" Irish people.

estebancambias · 12-08-2007 09:42PM

I lived in the US until I was 6, born in Ireland though. People you are missing the point. If you have ever listened to FM 104 phone show, when they talk about Americans, they are saying all Americans love the Irish, this is not the case at all.

In response to some questions, on my mum's side I have Ukranian heritage, that explains the myspace thing.

I like Americans, but in Ireland people think they are the centre of the universe and that everyone loves them in the states.

Terry · 12-08-2007 10:18PM

yankinlk wrote:

2. American Father, Irish Mother. Children born in Ireland - have the pale skin and lucky charms accents - are we Irish?

No.
No Actual Irish person has ever had a lucky charms accent.

pvt. joker · 12-08-2007 11:07PM

yankinlk wrote:

I love this old chestnut. So since you are nominating yourself as judge and jury of all that is "real" Irish can you give me a ruling on a few scenarios?

I guess my point is that by your reckoning - the Irish are an ever shrinking race of people. You are saying that ONLY people that were born from 100% Irish Parents, never leave the rock and raise their children here can then have Irish children that in turn can do the same. Jeez, the way the Irish travel these days you are eventually going to eliminate a huge portion of potential "real" Irish people.

The difference is in the definition. Americans use heritage as a way of identifying where we came from. My family only came here 2 generations ago. Of course my grandparents are going to identify with their countries of origin and pass it on to their children and grandchildren.

Irish define being "irish" as the textbook definition...meaning if you have a passport. So in other words, "Tom Murphy" who's grandparents sailed to the US 60 years ago can't say he's irish even though his DNA would say otherwise. But "Dipak Patel", who was born in ireland after his parents immigrated from India is 100%.

DNA vs. Passport

yankinlk · 12-08-2007 11:17PM

pvt. joker wrote:

The difference is in the definition. Americans use heritage as a way of identifying where we came from

Agreed.

pvt. joker wrote:

Irish define being "irish" as the textbook definition...meaning if you have a passport. So in other words, "Tom Murphy" who's grandparents sailed to the US 60 years ago can't say he's irish even though his DNA would say otherwise. But "Dipak Patel", who was born in ireland after his parents immigrated from India is 100%.

DNA vs. Passport

I dont agree that Irish define irishness in this way. By your logic, all of my examples would prove to be "irish" as they ALL have irish passports. However, I do not think that the average Irish person would give all my examples the 100% made in Ireland sticker.

Nailz · 13-08-2007 12:33AM

I encountered many ignorant Americans in my time. I was sitting beside a father one time in Disney Land back a few years ago waiting...

Father: So you on holiday?
Me: Yeah... *no shít*
Father: So how long are you here for?
Me: Week and a half.
Father: Where you comin' from anyways? I'm from Colorado.
Me: I'm from Ireland, me.
Father: Where's that?
Me: You know, Ireland. *glancing at him as to say ignorant 'American'*
Father: Oh yeah, I know but... you don't seem like one.
Me: *role-eyes* Hows that?
Father: Well your accent and the way you dress and look.
Me: *typical* Well, whats my accent 'supposed' to sound like?
Father: Like the Iiii-rish guy in the Simpsons.
Me: *my god, he's using stereotype* What about the way I look then?
Father: You're 'supposed' be fair and wearing green (stupid eejit, he's in his 30's)
Me: Okay...
Father: You suprised me.
Me: Well don't be.
Father: You's are normaly drunk.
Me: What?!?
Father: We normaly, see this on TV and stuff. *prick!*
Me: Don't get caught up with stereotypes.
Father: Alrighty. Well, hows the holidays? How are the Americans treating you?
Me: *hidden insult* Well you Americans are exactly how I pictured.

WTF do you think about that?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 13-08-2007 12:36AM

i think you shouldn't go to disneyland for the conversation.

robinph · 13-08-2007 12:57AM

yankinlk wrote:

... but bring them back to Ireland at school going age (before kids pick up the local accent)

They'll have the accent long before going to school, its then just a case of how much of it they keep in the new environment after moving. My niece certainly has a US accent and hasn't started school yet.

Jesus Wept · 13-08-2007 01:22AM

pvt. joker wrote:

just like most irish probably couldn't point out Wyoming on a map.

Yes, that's comparable.

There aren't enough

:o:confused::o:confused::o:confused::o:confused::o:confused::o:confused::o:confused: permitted per post.

When I'm stateside, I switch to pronouncing the name of this country to I-ER-LANDDDDDDD.

If you say 'Ire-land', you get 'what????' until you pronounce it ' I-ER-LAND', even then, it's just a word they have heard of.

coyote6 · 13-08-2007 02:51AM

I'm an American. I confess that prior to visiting Ireland for the first time in '05 I didn't realize how ignorant of Ireland and the Irish culture I was. Since then I've been back 2 more times. I have since taken to reading Irish history and some authors (Yeats, Joyce). The more I read the more I respect the Irish people.

I understand my Irish friends more now when they say it pisses them off when boisterous Americans come to Ireland proclaiming to "be Irish". There's no way any of us could "be Irish". You have to "be" there or "be" of there to "be Irish". Maybe after I move over next year and spend the next 40 years of my life there...then I might know a small part of what it is the "be Irish". But even then I'll have had 40 years of hardwiring as an American.

By the way...if you look around there are some pretty interesting quirks of culture and heritage in the nooks and crannies of America. Get away from the obvious touristy areas and you may be pleasantly surprised.

Lirange · 13-08-2007 06:39AM

Nailz wrote:

I encountered many ignorant Americans in my time. I was sitting beside a father one time in Disney Land back a few years ago waiting...

Father: So you on holiday?
Me: Yeah... *no shít*
Father: So how long are you here for?
Me: Week and a half.
Father: Where you comin' from anyways? I'm from Colorado.
Me: I'm from Ireland, me.
Father: Where's that?
Me: You know, Ireland. *glancing at him as to say ignorant 'American'*
Father: Oh yeah, I know but... you don't seem like one.
Me: *role-eyes* Hows that?
Father: Well your accent and the way you dress and look.
Me: *typical* Well, whats my accent 'supposed' to sound like?
Father: Like the Iiii-rish guy in the Simpsons.
Me: *my god, he's using stereotype* What about the way I look then?
Father: You're 'supposed' be fair and wearing green (stupid eejit, he's in his 30's)
Me: Okay...
Father: You suprised me.
Me: Well don't be.
Father: You's are normaly drunk.
Me: What?!?
Father: We normaly, see this on TV and stuff. *prick!*
Me: Don't get caught up with stereotypes.
Father: Alrighty. Well, hows the holidays? How are the Americans treating you?
Me: *hidden insult* Well you Americans are exactly how I pictured.

WTF do you think about that?

You's are normally drunk?
Like the Irish guy in the Simpsons?
You're 'supposed' be fair and wearing green

Sounds like you made it up or he was taking the piss.

Also, Americans don't say "holiday" they use "vacation"

Well you Americans are exactly how I pictured.

A fabricated straw man?

mikemac · 13-08-2007 06:46AM

A lot of people here are saying Amercians are ignorant and stupid.
Ask the next American you're talking to about sports. Most that I've met are walking encloyopaedias (spelling?) of statistics and facts for the major Amercian sports. You pick a stat and they can list it.
They'd put any GAA fan to shame.

Yes, that doesn't make someone intelligent but they sure aren't limited if they apply themselves.

And hey, if you think you live in the greatest country in the world, then why concern yourself with small, insignificant countries like Ireland and it's location on a map?

Jesus Wept · 13-08-2007 07:00AM

micmclo wrote:

And hey, if you think you live in the greatest country in the world, then why concern yourself with small, insignificant countries like Ireland and it's location on a map?

Cause they would be wrong, blinkered, ignorant, and of low intelligence.

Anyhow, it's not limited to Ireland, too many of them can't pick out anything on a map, even their own country.

Of more than half of American's I've talked too, when you mention a random everyday 1st world item such as a car, bus, a phone, etc etc

and they will stop you mid-sentance and say

'Y'all got those over there?!'.

I've lost count of the number of american's I've been chatting too (offline or online), they know I am Irish, and on thanksgiving day, without fail, they will say:

'Did you have a gooood thanksgiving?'

The mind fcuking boggles.

yankinlk · 13-08-2007 07:54AM

coyote6 wrote:

I'm an American. I confess that prior to visiting Ireland for the first time in '05 I didn't realize how ignorant of Ireland and the Irish culture I was. Since then I've been back 2 more times.

There's no way any of us could "be Irish". You have to "be" there or "be" of there to "be Irish". Maybe after I move over next year and spend the next 40 years of my life there...then I might know a small part of what it is the "be Irish". But even then I'll have had 40 years of hardwiring as an American.

After 40 years the definition of being Irish will have been re-written. (at least once) Checkout David Macwilliams definitions of Irish Culture in the Naughties (00's). This is drastically different to the Ireland that I arrived in 10 years ago.

Related to Americans.

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