Related to Americans.

estebancambias

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry? I resent the way that Irish people think that Americans love us, this is not the case. Also they are Americans, not Italian-American, not Irish-American, not African-American....nothing.

Dave!

Rather wide-ranging thread......

It isn't only rich Americans that claim to have Irish ancestry. I don't know where you got that idea Care to elaborate?

I guess you have a point about Irish people thinking that Americans love us, many Irish people do think that... I don't know why you'd resent that, I certainly don't have any strong feelings about it. In my experience, Irish people generally ARE well received by Americans. Compare us with say a Mexican, or an Arab, or a Frenchy!

And re: your last point; Americans refer to their ethnic background more so than foreigners do. I would generally just call someone an American instead of an X, Y, or Z-American. But people refer to their ethnicity because of how recently America was colonised. You trace your own ancestry back and you'll usually not be able to get out of Ireland, even if you are of foreign descent. You do the same in America and in a few generations you're back in the old country. In my experience Americans are proud of and interested in their ethnicity.

What exactly are you getting at?

Kinetic^

Everyone loves the Irish..............FACT.........because I said so!!!!

Jesus Wept

In my experience, most americans don't know where Ireland is....

well, most don't know seem to know where anywhere is.

estebancambias

Ironically I have traced my background from my dad's side. Like alot of Irish, I have Northern Spanish blood(I don't know if much people know this) it's like the Welsh having Roman blood.

In reality I don't know what I'm getting at, this probably belonged to a 2 minute segment on that Adrian Kennedy show.

About the Italian-American, Irish-American etc.. why does nobody call themselves English-American?

Kinetic^

estebancambias wrote:

In reality I don't know what I'm getting at

Well if you don't fvcking know, how the fvck are we supposed to??!!!!! :rolleyes:

estebancambias

I mean I'm not getting at anything, just expressing something that I have hated since I was 14.

Dave!

estebancambias wrote:

Ironically I have traced my background from my dad's side. Like alot of Irish, I have Northern Spanish blood(I don't know if much people know this) it's like the Welsh having Roman blood.

In reality I don't know what I'm getting at, this probably belonged to a 2 minute segment on that Adrian Kennedy show.

About the Italian-American, Irish-American etc.. why does nobody call themselves English-American?

I don't rightly know why they don't call themselves English-American..... strange.....

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that what would go on to become the first 13 states of the USA were originally all British colonies, and they rebelled against the Brits, forming the USA. So they were proud to be American rather than British. The Italians, Irish, and Africans arrived after independence (the Irish out of necessity, the Africans as slaves, dunno about the Italians.....), not as colonisers, so they I guess had more reason to hold on to their culture and ethnicity.

Just a guess!

Kinetic^

estebancambias wrote:

I mean I'm not getting at anything, just expressing something that I have hated since I was 14.

Call the samaritans then!!! :rolleyes:

Jesus Wept

estebancambias wrote:

I mean I'm not getting at anything, just expressing something that I have hated since I was 14.

And what happened when you were 14?

estebancambias

Movies like Darby O'Gill also romanticised(word?) the Irish. That is why we here of nobody claiming to be Norwegian-American, as they have yet to make a movie about Norwegian myths and legeneds.

The Italians moved out of neccesity, just like the Irish, however Irish had an advantage they could speak the lingo.

Dave!

estebancambias wrote:

Movies like Darby O'Gill also romanticised(word?) the Irish. That is why we here of nobody claiming to be Norwegian-American, as they have yet to make a movie about Norwegian myths and legeneds.

The Italians moved out of neccesity, just like the Irish, however Irish had an advantage they could speak the lingo.

Might also be something to do with the fact that 12% of the US population are of Irish descent, compared to 1.6% of Norwegian descent. That might explain why you don't hear much about them.

Seriously like.... what?

Jesus Wept

Norwegian American


Notable Norwegian American:

Marilyn Monroe (born Norma Jeane Mortenson)



Distribution of Norwegian Americans according to the 2000 census

The 10 states with the most Norwegians:

1. Minnesota – 850,742
2. Wisconsin – 454,831
3. California – 436,128
4. Washington – 367,508
5. North Dakota – 193,158
6. Illinois – 178,923
7. Iowa – 166,667
8. Oregon – 147,262
9. Texas – 118,968
10. South Dakota – 115,292

The 10 states with the top percentages of Norwegians:

1. North Dakota – 30.1% of the state's white population is of Norwegian ancestry
2. Minnesota – 17.3%
3. South Dakota – 15.3%
4. Montana – 10.6%
5. Wisconsin – 8.5%
6. Washington – 6.2%
7. Iowa – 5.7%
8. Oregon – 4.3%
9. Wyoming – 4.3%
10. Alaska – 4.2%

Lirange

Kevin Sorbo (Hercules), Matt Groening (Simpsons), and Kristanna Loken (Terminator bird) are Norweigian hyphen Americans!

If only so-called "Irish" Americans left such a mark. Aside from JFK nostalgia, it's Bill O, Rosie O, and the rest of the muppets nowadays.

Terry

DaveMcG wrote:

But people refer to their ethnicity because of how recently America was colonised.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are three countries that come to mind.
They don't seem to have the same hang-ups as the yanks.

In my experience, Irish people generally ARE well received by Americans. Compare us with say a Mexican, or an Arab, or a Frenchy!

Yet they love the statue of liberty.
Chowder.

Jesus Wept

CHOW-DERE? CHOW-DERE?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za1JB9CEsjM

mikemac

estebancambias wrote:

About the Italian-American, Irish-American etc.. why does nobody call themselves English-American?

Would WASP cover this?
Of course only a fraction of English immigrants were rich and elite, it's just what occured to me

Interestingly, I read that Ronald Reagan played down his Irish roots (Tipperary) when seeking election as his main support was coming from rich, conservative people so not much gain to be made by calling himself Irish.
Bill Clinton did the opposite and both policies seemed to work.

scitpo

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry? I resent the way that Irish people think that Americans love us, this is not the case. Also they are Americans, not Italian-American, not Irish-American, not African-American....nothing.

I've been saying this for years. You're only fully Irish in my mind if your parents were born here and you were brought up in Ireland as well.

Dave!

Terry wrote:

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are three countries that come to mind.
They don't seem to have the same hang-ups as the yanks.



Yet they love the statue of liberty.
Chowder.

True enough, maybe it's something to do with the fact that the major colonisers in Oz and NZ were the British, and both countries still have Queen Elizabeth as their head of state. I dunno, maybe a sociologist could tell ya!

Canada is in the Commonwealth too, but it was colonised by the French as well as the British, and there's alot of French influence in Canada -- sure they all speak French in Quebec! 'French-Canadian' is a fairly widely used term.

Terry

Fair enough. You have a point there.

Now, how about from Mexico to Argentina and all poiunts inbetween?

I just think those in the U.S. are desperately trying to cling on to any culture they can, as they seem to think they don't have one of their own.

tallus

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry? I resent the way that Irish people think that Americans love us, this is not the case. Also they are Americans, not Italian-American, not Irish-American, not African-American....nothing.

I know a lot of run of the mill yanks who claim Irish Heritage.

spurious

A large percentage of 'Irish' Americans, turn out to be descended from Ulster-Scots, which is kind of ironic.

pickarooney

Terry wrote:

Now, how about from Mexico to Argentina and all poiunts inbetween?

They all consider themselves Americans, being from America.

Dave!

Terry wrote:

Fair enough. You have a point there.

Now, how about from Mexico to Argentina and all poiunts inbetween?

I just think those in the U.S. are desperately trying to cling on to any culture they can, as they seem to think they don't have one of their own.

I agree, I think they do cling to their ethnicity because there isn't an "American" culture. The only American culture I can think of is that of the natives. That's who was there long before the Europeans came along. Then they came along and wiped that out, leaving a country composed of immigrants from various European countries. Just 200 years later and a few million more immigrants from further afield, and I'm not sure that there's a united American culture, is there?

Dunno if that's a good thing or a bad thing for the country (I'm sure both sides of that coin have benefits), it's just interesting really!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

no american culture? what the **** do you think you see in the cinemas, on your irish television screens, the music you listen to?
sweet tapdancing jesus

Talliesin

DaveMcG wrote:

The Italians, Irish, and Africans arrived after independence (the Irish out of necessity, the Africans as slaves, dunno about the Italians.....)

Immigration from Africa, Italy and Ireland started prior to independence. Almost all, but not entirely all, of the Africans came as slaves. A large number of the Irish came as free people or with contracts of indenture, but a sizable number came as slaves (though more Irish slaves went to the Carribean). Have to say I don't know as much about Italy at the time in this regard.

micmclo wrote:

Interestingly, I read that Ronald Reagan played down his Irish roots (Tipperary) when seeking election as his main support was coming from rich, conservative people so not much gain to be made by calling himself Irish.
Bill Clinton did the opposite and both policies seemed to work.

There is a large favouring of the Democrat party amongst wealthy Irish-American people who still have some sense (whether realistic or nearly mythological) of their working class roots. Added to that the mythologising of a particular Democrat president of Irish descent, and it's perceived as helpful to a Democrat and harmful to a Republican to have Irish roots.

Terry

Mordeth wrote:

no american culture? what the **** do you think you see in the cinemas, on your irish television screens, the music you listen to?
sweet tapdancing jesus

You're completely right, but the Americans themselves don't seem to realise it.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

fish probably don't know an awful lot about water either, the only reason it's such a big deal over here (and possibly worldwide) is because people feel that their culture is being swamped by the american offerings. Then they blame the americans for offering, instead of blaming themselves for accepting.

if it bothers anyone, just don't watch lost, heroes, star trek, friends, evan almighty, the simpsons, family guy, futurama.

actually can someone name ten hugely popular shows in the past year or two that weren't of american origin?
I can think of a few that I loved, but nothing I can think of that wouldn't be anything more than a fringe following of fans.

Terry

Mordeth wrote:

evan almighty

I'm not going to watch that anyway. 5 minutes was enough.

Saruman

estebancambias im curious. You seem to have a serious oppinion on this matter. Im just curious:
1) how much time you have spent in the US?
2) How many Americans are you related to?
3) How many Americans do you know very well?

Im just curious. Im assuming you are not just spouting ignorant rubbish based on anecdotes you have heard. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Im assuming you are basing all this on first hand experience of the US and its people.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Terry wrote:

I'm not going to watch that anyway. 5 minutes was enough.

yeah, me either... always like correll on the daily show but his movies just don't do it for me. just felt like I had to name drop something recent.

Capt'n Midnight

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry?

Could you not try to find your rich American relative and bleed then for all they are worth ?

faceman

Lirange wrote:

If only so-called "Irish" Americans left such a mark. Aside from JFK nostalgia, it's Bill O, Rosie O, and the rest of the muppets nowadays.

not true. Irish americans are believed to have invented common slang used today.

this book is very entertaining.

http://www2.akpress.org/2007/items/howtheirishinventedslang

Dev 17

I don't know why it annoys people that Americans like the Irish and we are welcomed over there. Or the fact that many Americans claim Irish heritage. On these boards I have seen a lot of posts charged with anti American sentiment. Claims that Americans can't point to Ireland on a map or Americans are idiots are nonsense. These claims are made by people who often have never been to American and the few Americans they have met judge the rest of the country as if they were elected ambassadors.

I think people get a secret thrill reffering to Americans being someway inferior and our superior "intellect" trumps them in every way.

SimpleSam06

estebancambias wrote:

Ironically I have traced my background from my dad's side. Like alot of Irish, I have Northern Spanish blood(I don't know if much people know this) it's like the Welsh having Roman blood.

Is that your myspace link in your sig? If so, why do you have "I WISH I WAS AMERICAN!!!!" in the about yourself section, and claim you are from the Ukraine?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Dev 17 wrote:

I think people get a secret thrill reffering to Americans being someway inferior and our superior "intellect" trumps them in every way.

there's nothing secret about it!

challengemaster

The-Rigger wrote:

In my experience, most americans don't know where Ireland is....

well, most don't know seem to know where anywhere is.

lol, so so true.

-» (american accent) So, where y'all from?
-> Ireland
-» Where?
-> uh... Ireland?!?
-» Never heard of it
-> ...
-> You know where England is?
-» omg you're from England?!
-> No... *sigh*

Dev 17

Mate, I'm not saying there aren't stupid Americans. There are, unfortunately. However there is the same proportion of stupid people in Ireland.

The whole country being stupid…I don't think so. It show the height of ignorance to even say something like that and reflects badly on Irish people in my opinion.

The Irish are already making a bad name for themselves. J1's going to San Diego are finding it harder and harder to get sorted with accommodation as there are horror stories of Irish people (students) wrecking an apartment before they leave and landlords have said to mates of mine that they wouldn't take them because they're Irish.

So please slate Bush all you want. But don't label every American being a Right Wing Bush evangelical.

Dev

pvt. joker

estebancambias wrote:

This is probably not the place to put this but why the hell is it that only rich Americans claim to have Irish ancestry? I resent the way that Irish people think that Americans love us, this is not the case. Also they are Americans, not Italian-American, not Irish-American, not African-American....nothing.

Maybe because about 12% of americans have irish ancestry? I don't even understand the point of this thread. There was nothing to eat in ireland 100+ years ago. There was no work. Irish people fled their country and moved to america in droves. Hence the high percentage of americans with irish heritage

wiki wrote:

Irish Americans (Irish: Gael-Mheiriceánach) are citizens of the United States who can claim ancestry originating in the west European nation of Ireland. A total of 34,668,723 Americans (12% of total population) reported Irish ancestry in the 2005 American Community Survey[2] The only self-reported ancestral group larger than Irish Americans are German Americans.[3]. Note that this does not include those reporting Scots-Irish ancestry, who are counted separately.

pvt. joker

The-Rigger wrote:

In my experience, most americans don't know where Ireland is....

well, most don't know seem to know where anywhere is.

just like most irish probably couldn't point out Wyoming on a map.

insafehands

challengemaster wrote:

lol, so so true.

-» (american accent) So, where y'all from?
-> Ireland
-» Where?
-> uh... Ireland?!?
-» Never heard of it
-> ...
-> You know where England is?
-» omg you're from England?!
-> No... *sigh*

You never actually had that conversation, or one like it, did you?

Echelle

The Irish american thing is a hugely hyped up political ruse. OK there are lots of so called Irish Americans, but I bet a huge amount of these also can claim some percentage of English, French, German, Russian Italian etc. blood, as there has been a huge amount of inter racial marriages over the years. We only hear about the Irish bit , because the Americans have been duped to think we care more about those with Irish blood....as if we give a hoot, but bord Failte (if it is still called that) has been milking this one for years.
So what if many Americans could'nt place Ireland on a map?How many of you out there could find somewhere like Burma, for example, a country with over 40 million people,on the map? The Irish generally are very parochial on an international scale, we are pretty insignificant so dont think Dublin is the centre of the world, and dont be surprised if that barman in that non irish pub in the USA never heard of Cork, Galway or Waterford.

challengemaster

Most Americans cant even do that!! nevermind the Irish doing it. (point out wyoming)

challengemaster

insafehands wrote:

You never actually had that conversation, or one like it, did you?

actually yes, yes i did.. MANY times

louisecm

Saruman wrote:

estebancambias im curious. You seem to have a serious oppinion on this matter. Im just curious:
1) how much time you have spent in the US?
2) How many Americans are you related to?
3) How many Americans do you know very well?

Im just curious. Im assuming you are not just spouting ignorant rubbish based on anecdotes you have heard. Im giving you the benefit of the doubt here. Im assuming you are basing all this on first hand experience of the US and its people.

I second that. Can we have a little more info on what these opinions are based on?

Also, I feel it is completely understandable that Americans have a greater interest in their heritage than people in Europe and other parts of the world. Their country is only 200 years old, in terms of countries that is a child. And what is wrong with a child a) being curious about where they came from and b) being proud of it when they find out?

I spent 10 years in the US (moved there when 7 and back when 17) and I have to say the positivity about people's heritage is a lovely thing. I know lots about customs and cultures from random places around the globe because we were taught about them in school in the US and celebrated all kinds of holidays in the classroom. I never felt so proud to be Irish as I did in the States - where is the harm in that? It seems like kind of a waste of energy to get worked up about something that in the end is positive.

Finally, there are a lot of generalisations being made here about Americans. There are both ignorant and informed people in every country.

indough

estebancambias wrote:

About the Italian-American, Irish-American etc.. why does nobody call themselves English-American?

Because they just think of themselves as American, as in the original Americans, although we all know what happened to the real natives.

Think of it this way, noone originally lived in Ireland, so the people who originally colonized had to come from somewhere else. But if your family were from the original group of colonials, you'd call yourself Irish. Now on the other hand if your parents moved here from say Spain or somewhere, you'd be more likely to recognize your other heritage also.

Lirange

Talliesin wrote:

There is a large favouring of the Democrat party amongst wealthy Irish-American people who still have some sense (whether realistic or nearly mythological) of their working class roots. Added to that the mythologising of a particular Democrat president of Irish descent, and it's perceived as helpful to a Democrat and harmful to a Republican to have Irish roots.

A substantial portion of the Ulster emigrants went to the South and are very much part of the redneck conservative powerbase. Although they use the term Scots-Irish? That term makes no sense to me. There's that hyphen again.

But you're spot on about the Irish emigrants of the 19th century that went to the cities in the North. The political urban machines established a tradition of favouring the Democrats amongst Irish Catholics.

Terry wrote:

You're completely right, but the Americans themselves don't seem to realise it.

They're not satisfied with having a contemporary culture they want a heritage. One that's goes beyond a couple centuries.

faceman wrote:

not true. Irish americans are believed to have invented common slang used today.

this book is very entertaining.

http://www2.akpress.org/2007/items/howtheirishinventedslang

I should have typed in the present tense "are making their mark." My comment is just perception nothing else. It seems so many of the prominent "Irish" Americans today are quite grating.

yankinlk

scitpo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. You're only fully Irish in my mind if your parents were born here and you were brought up in Ireland as well.

I love this old chestnut. So since you are nominating yourself as judge and jury of all that is "real" Irish can you give me a ruling on a few scenarios?

1. Mother and Grand Mother Irish. Born in America - Father American. Return to Ireland where discover hey, im pale, hairy and hate sand in my swimsuit just like the rest of these lads. Am i Irish?

2. American Father, Irish Mother. Children born in Ireland - have the pale skin and lucky charms accents - are we Irish?

3. Samantha Mumba marries Seamus Murphy - settles down in Kerry and raises a brood. Are these children Irish?

4. Mother and Father 100% real Irish Born. Travel to UK for 5 years to work. While overseas raise 3 children but bring them back to Ireland at school going age (before kids pick up the local accent) - are they Irish?

I guess my point is that by your reckoning - the Irish are an ever shrinking race of people. You are saying that ONLY people that were born from 100% Irish Parents, never leave the rock and raise their children here can then have Irish children that in turn can do the same. Jeez, the way the Irish travel these days you are eventually going to eliminate a huge portion of potential "real" Irish people.

estebancambias

I lived in the US until I was 6, born in Ireland though. People you are missing the point. If you have ever listened to FM 104 phone show, when they talk about Americans, they are saying all Americans love the Irish, this is not the case at all.

In response to some questions, on my mum's side I have Ukranian heritage, that explains the myspace thing.

I like Americans, but in Ireland people think they are the centre of the universe and that everyone loves them in the states.

Terry

yankinlk wrote:

2. American Father, Irish Mother. Children born in Ireland - have the pale skin and lucky charms accents - are we Irish?

No.
No Actual Irish person has ever had a lucky charms accent.

pvt. joker

yankinlk wrote:

I love this old chestnut. So since you are nominating yourself as judge and jury of all that is "real" Irish can you give me a ruling on a few scenarios?

I guess my point is that by your reckoning - the Irish are an ever shrinking race of people. You are saying that ONLY people that were born from 100% Irish Parents, never leave the rock and raise their children here can then have Irish children that in turn can do the same. Jeez, the way the Irish travel these days you are eventually going to eliminate a huge portion of potential "real" Irish people.

The difference is in the definition. Americans use heritage as a way of identifying where we came from. My family only came here 2 generations ago. Of course my grandparents are going to identify with their countries of origin and pass it on to their children and grandchildren.

Irish define being "irish" as the textbook definition...meaning if you have a passport. So in other words, "Tom Murphy" who's grandparents sailed to the US 60 years ago can't say he's irish even though his DNA would say otherwise. But "Dipak Patel", who was born in ireland after his parents immigrated from India is 100%.

DNA vs. Passport