Ban the production and selling of all tobacco products!!!

juddd · 12-08-2007 06:10PM

Ph3n0m wrote:

I'm sorry, when you started smoking did you somehow think cigarettes were good for you? After all,from a visual point of view, you are inhaling ****ing smoke!

You are absolutely right, but do you think I really gave a toss when I was 14-16 yrs old and uneducated in the dangers of smoking and its long term effects?

Ph3n0m wrote:

So your friends offered you cigs, you choose to take one - oh yeah I can see that it is completely and solely the fault of the cigarette there. Maybe you should blame your own personal weakness and susceptibility to peer pressure first.

my first cigarette got me high and dizzy and made me feel all relaxed and it was a nice feeling, what can I say? I got hooked!!
I only wish I had your strength of character back when I was a young weak minded susceptible teenager.

Ph3n0m wrote:

You did have a choice - either start smoking or dont - millions of people choose not to start in the first place.

Ahh yes, you are quite right, if only it was that simple!

You Suck! · 12-08-2007 06:42PM

but do you think I really gave a toss when I was 14-16 yrs old and uneducated in the dangers of smoking and its long term effects?

Uneducated? Sorry, but no, there has been more then enough education given from primary level up on the dangers of smoking since the 80s afaik.

Ahh yes, you are quite right, if only it was that simple!

When you think of the majority who choose not to start, then yes, it is that simple. Granted the mindset of the average teenager is quite ****ed up, but that do's not mean that teenagers are non-sentient atonatoms who can't make their own choices.

If your going to have a chip on your shoulder about having started smoking then you could at least land the blame a little closer to where it started, You and shops who broke the law in selling you cigarettes in the first place.

Crazy Christ · 12-08-2007 06:46PM

Smoking Nazis.. get over yourselves. You miserable baxtards will probably get cancer anyway, from being so miserable

indough · 12-08-2007 06:51PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Perhaps the card idea , you would have to register as a smoker to get cards. This would also mean you would be entitled to less FREE medical care for self-inflicted injuries.

Why is there this prejudice against smokers? If someone decides to take up rock climbing, falls and badly injures themselves, should we not treat them because they chose to do that activity, which was not necessary? What about if a group of people aboard a yacht get into trouble out to sea in bad weather, we won't send out the coastguard to help them because they didn't really have to be out there in the first place. Or if you one day decide to cross the road and get run over, we should give priority treatment to someone who lived their life wrapped up in bubble packaging never doing anything risky or unnecessary, because there was a zebra crossing 5 minutes down the road and you could have crossed there but you chose not to.

micmclo wrote:

Are you sure about this?
Maybe there is more tax revenue coming than health spending on these diseases (I don't have the figures) but if we're losing thousands of workers from the labour force to early retirment and disability allowances in their 50's then that's more money lost.

Yeah mate i'm positive, even when what you've added has been taken into consideration (which I already did). The percentage of government taxes which makes up the price of cigarettes and alcohol is massive, as they have a special rate of tax above that of VAT. Plus you have to consider that those people retiring early may not be doing so because of smoking, that's something that can't really be proven.

tallus wrote:

People have to eat, they dont have to smoke. Your quote was idiotic

But they don't have to eat junk food, which is the main contributor to heart disease, although smoking is often portrayed as being the culprit there as it is also linked to the disease. Incidentally, heart disease is the biggest killer in Ireland (or so I once heard), so it could be argued that a bad diet is worse for us than smoking.

Mordeth wrote:

one syringle full of heroin prob won't get you addicted either

Actually I think it probably would from what i've heard, but then apparent;y nicotine is actually more addictive even than heroin. I suppose there really is no way of measuring these types of things.

juddd · 12-08-2007 06:59PM

Kipperhell wrote:

There are lots of reasons why a ban wouldn't work and to not even be aware of why requires a level of stupidity.

Prohibition of drugs and alcohol has never worked so why would it suddenly work now?

Im not talking about alcohol, just tobacoo, we can learn from the mistakes made from others whom have tried to prohibit alcohol and tobacco then come up with a plan to ease out the use of tobacco and then eventually get rid of it alltogether over the course of maybe 2 years or so.

Kipperhell wrote:

Criminals would make profit the government currently make.

to do that they would have to setup shop on most every street corner, hotel, supermarket, pub, concert hall etc....I dont think the criminals have got those kind of resources....

Kipperhell wrote:

The government need the money.

Last year there was a surplus of over €2,265 in the budget...if the gov needed the money so badly then we would not have a surplus at all.

Kipperhell wrote:

Smokers have political weight

No I don't, all I have is a vote.

Kipperhell wrote:

Smoking makes more profit then simple tobacco sales such as lighters,ash trays and every convenience store make additional sales on the simple visit into their shops.
So you would lose political standing, make lots of people lose their jobs, throw the country into a recession, increase criminal income and ultimately fail in stopping smoking.

A recession? I dont think so, if handled right there would be some instability but no recession.
The people who loose their jobs will find other employement with the help of the government they will not remain unemployed for the rest of their lives, the country can focus its attention on renewable energy such as ethanol production etc, those who lost their jobs could be offered work harvesting those crops and operating recycle plants that actually make products instead of shipping the recycled material to foreign countries.

Kipperhell wrote:

As with most problems there is not an easy solution and generally people who think there is they fail to actually think about the full ramifications.

Well im glad not everyone is a negative as that, nothing worth doing is meant to be easy, it would be a challenge and there would be lots of obstacles to overcome, but it can be done!!

indough · 12-08-2007 07:02PM

juddd wrote:

Last year there was a surplus of over €2,265 in the budget...if the gov needed the money so badly then we would not have a surplus at all.

If thats all they had in surplus then i'd say someone's been fiddling with the books, they'd better put up the tax rate

Antigone05 · 12-08-2007 07:12PM

we should stamp out masturbation as it makes you blind.

i love to smoke..sorry.

No one will stop me from smoking, no matter what it does to me its my choice and i dont need someone else to tell me what im doing wrong..as my wrong is my bloody choice.

for all you know going to church too much is bad for your knees.

Smokers Unite!

You Suck! · 12-08-2007 07:13PM

to do that they would have to setup shop on most every street corner, hotel, supermarket, pub, concert hall etc....I dont think the criminals have got those kind of resources....

Are you kidding me? Just look at the drugs economy, coccaine trade alone is supposedly worth 1bn and that's just what they know about it. If it's profitable enough and the risk/reward ratio is acceptable then you will find out very quickly how a black market infrastructure can develop.

juddd · 12-08-2007 07:21PM

Laslo wrote:

Well let's not be hypocritical idiots about it - let's open up the thread by trying to get all the other stuff banned too: junk food, alcohol, cars, aerosols, etc.

Im just talking about tobacoo, junk food in moderation is harmless and can actually be good for you, alcohol like wine contains flavinoids which help prevent arteries getting clogged up and prevent cholesterol from gathering in blood vessels, but as with most things when you take too much of something it can be very bad for you, why not also ban skateboarding or bungie jumping?

Laslo wrote:

I remember when I smoked a grotesquely obese woman that I worked with took it upon herself to remark that it was a 'disgusting habit' when I offered her one. What... and stuffing your face with cheeseburgers and Fanta isn't? At least smoking is a 'drug' addiction/de-stresser. Obesity is the worst type of gluttony and yet smokers seem to be more stigmatised.

well she was right in what she said, and people do need to eat, she obviously needs help to control her eating habits, and to not use food to comfort and de-stress her!! obesity it not so much about gluttony but more about how the body now needs that amount of food to keep going, but thats for another discussion.

Laslo wrote:

Say juddd - what age, height and weight are you?

Im in my 30's 6 ft tall and slim, and I imagine I will be putting on an extra few pounds now that im trying to give up the smokes.....lol....but I will be watching my weight carefully.

JC 2K3 · 12-08-2007 07:24PM

indough wrote:

Actually I think it probably would from what i've heard

Nah, likely not. One must remember that the health risks from recreational drugs, while very real and present, are vastly exaggerated by the government and anti-drugs organisation(this applies to tobacco also).

indough · 12-08-2007 07:28PM

JC 2K3 wrote:

Nah, likely not. One must remember that the health risks from recreational drugs, while very real and present, are vastly exaggerated by the government and anti-drugs organisation(this applies to tobacco also).

I don't get my sources of drugs information from the government though lol, I prefer to do that sort of research first hand

but i've never gone as far as heroin, never would. I know people that have though, and I can assure you that I was right in what I said

JC 2K3 · 12-08-2007 07:38PM

Well, there is a big difference between being addicted to something after your first time and getting addicted due to regular use over a few weeks....

In any case, it's off topic.

indough · 12-08-2007 07:42PM

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well, there is a big difference between being addicted to something after your first time and getting addicted due to regular use over a few weeks....

In any case, it's off topic.

I'm talking about being addicted after the first time, it may sound unbelievable to you but in most cases that's what happens. I'd say you'd have to experience it to understand why. But you're right we're off topic

muckwarrior · 12-08-2007 07:45PM

Forget about the health and economic factors, the reason I'm so anti smoking is that most smokers seem to be dirty smelly cυnts. Why do so many of you think it's ok to throw your butts on the ground and leave them there? When I see this I usually as them if they were eating a bag of chips would they just throw the bag on the ground when your finished? "No". "Then why do you think it's ok to drop your fag butts?" "Eh, well it's not my fault there's no ashtray."
That argument is the equvalent to me taking a sh1t in the middle of the street and then saying "well it's not my fault there's no toilet here".

Don't ban smoking, just ban it in ALL public places.

indough · 12-08-2007 07:58PM

muckwarrior wrote:

When I see this I usually as them if they were eating a bag of chips would they just throw the bag on the ground when your finished? "No". "Then why do you think it's ok to drop your fag butts?" "Eh, well it's not my fault there's no ashtray."

I don't think you do really say that mate, unless you're a litter warden. If you do I think you're a bit rude, although I understand your sentiment. When I did smoke, I rarely used to drop the butts in public. Just make sure you don't chastise the wrong person though, a lot of people don't take kindly to that sort of thing

hoolio · 12-08-2007 08:02PM

indough wrote:

I'm talking about being addicted after the first time, it may sound unbelievable to you but in most cases that's what happens.

Even further off topic, but pretty much all psychological/chemical research would disagree with you. "Knowing someone" ain't exactly scientific.

David Michael · 12-08-2007 08:04PM

Mordeth wrote:

that being said, coke and heroin are ****ing stupid drugs and people who take them are ****ing stupid people. But I don't think intelligence is a legal requirement.

See were you went wrong there is making a statement rather than expressing your own opinion. Coke and heroin are no more stupid that hash or alcohol. If you like to whack out oh heroin twice a year how does that make you stupid? If you like to do new years on cocaine.. how does that make you stupid? If you like to toke a joint threre or four time a week cos it is ok. Much like getting druck twice a week...doea any of it make you stupid?

Embrace all or nothing. The hard factor in the equation is poeople. Intelligence or mental capicity is not a legal requirment. You are correct there.

That is were we should probably start.

I am all for banning the lot. Cigs and every thing.

indough · 12-08-2007 08:11PM

hoolio wrote:

Even further off topic, but pretty much all psychological/chemical research would disagree with you. "Knowing someone" ain't exactly scientific.

Thats b******s, unless you're going to show references to the work you speak of? I suppose you just happen to have read all of these reports? I doubrt it, sounds like you're just clutching at straws there mate.

At the end of the day you can choose to believe what you want, but I know what I know and the people i've spoken to have first hand experience, your 'science' has no match for that. Besides, when you find one scientific study which says one thing you can pretty much guarantee that you could find the same number, if not more, of studies showing exactly the opposite. The same goes for almost anything.

muckwarrior · 12-08-2007 08:27PM

indough wrote:

I don't think you do really say that mate, unless you're a litter warden. If you do I think you're a bit rude,

I do to people i know. And I think they're the one's being rude.

indough · 12-08-2007 08:34PM

You're right, it is rude of them, but you made it sound like you were saying it to random people on the street. Fair play to you though for saying it to your mates. Do they get pi**ed of with you for it?

RandolphEsq · 12-08-2007 09:22PM

Ban floss. I HATE FLOSSING

MooseJam · 12-08-2007 09:41PM

Banning stuff doesn't work, it should be the opposite, legalise all drugs please

Deliverance XXV · 12-08-2007 10:25PM

I am off the fags nearly seven months now....

Yup, I say ban them completely.

juddd · 12-08-2007 10:30PM

TheGooner wrote:

You'll be advocating a ban on JUNK food too then yes?

No! Just tobacoo.
There is nothing wrong with junk food, the only thing wrong with junk food is people eating too much of it.

TheGooner wrote:

I am not even a smoker but smokers have rights too and a blanket ban on tobacco is just stupid.

People have rights, smokers do not get extra rights just because they are smokers, are you saying that smokers have the right to poison themselves, if thats the case then why not legalise suicide.
If tobacoo was only after being discovered now, I can guarantee you that no government in the world would pass it as fit for human consumption, and I cannot understand why people think a total ban on tobacoo can be a bad thing.

Terry wrote:

To hell with smokers rights.
Smoking is completely pointless.
I type this with 20 years experience as a smoker.

Quoted for agreement, I too have been smoking for 18-20 years.

Terry wrote:

I'm also smoking as I type this..

How very dare you!...lol..:eek:

Laslo wrote:

I remember when I smoked a grotesquely obese woman.

simplesam06 wrote:

Had to do a double take on that one..

Yeah that had me worried for a sec....lol....:eek:

simplesam06 wrote:

Studies have proved that tobacco has a claiming effect on certain parts of the brain that help you concentrate while working in a stressful environment...

Yes you are right about this, but I can guarantee you that the tobacoo company did not make cigs this way to calm people down, its more to do with getting you addicted to the product.

mordeth wrote:

yeah, because no one takes speed, heroin, cocaine, acid, mushrooms, weed or anything else that is illegal. there isn't already a huge black market for substances like this and banning tobacco will do nothing to add to an already powerful system of drug dealing gangs...

With the exception of heroin the rest are not as adictive as tobacco.

mordeth wrote:

you're an assumed rational adult. if you want to take coke or heroin, it is your choice and no one elses. You just haev to take a tally of your life, your responsibilities (family, job etc), your risk of developing an addiction, illness or psychological disorder, then your finances to ensure you will have enough money to support yourself if you start to **** yourself up ...

Ahhh yeah I bet every junkie in the world has a checklist like that in their pockets before they decide to become a junkie.

mordeth wrote:

one syringle full of heroin prob won't get you addicted either...

I know for a fact that it would, I knew a lot of people who only smoked heroin and got hooked and those that injected got hooked even worse, and dont talk to me about the sores they developed and the illness they suffered and the swollen arms and legs from not hitting the proper vein....i could go on but I dont think your stomach could handle it.

MooseJam · 12-08-2007 10:38PM

You are only proposing this because you want to quit aparantly but are unable to do it yourself so you want the government to do it, that is the funniest thing I've heard in a long while

MooseJam · 12-08-2007 10:40PM

Smokers get nothing out of smoking it just quells withdrawal pangs, if you stay off them for a few days a smoke is pretty cool, you get a mad nicotine rush and euphoria, It's short lived though but beats the hell out of a normal fag, I might just do that

12-08-2007 10:44PM

juddd wrote:

No! Just tobacoo.
There is nothing wrong with junk food, the only thing wrong with junk food is people eating too much of it..

The only thing wrong with tobacco is people smoking it

Rb · 12-08-2007 10:52PM

I'd rather see retards banned from the internet tbh.

ali.c · 12-08-2007 10:54PM

Kipperhell wrote:

Smoking makes more profit then simple tobacco sales such as lighters,ash trays and every convenience store make additional sales on the simple visit into their shops.
So you would lose political standing, make lots of people lose their jobs, throw the country into a recession, increase criminal income and ultimately fail in stopping smoking.The only thing wrong with tobacco is people smoking it

Now i am not so sure about whether it would promote a recession but I worked in a retailing group and there was one store, of which the owner was very anti smoking and made the positive decision not to sell cigarettes. However six months down the line he faced a choice, sell smokes or get out of business. Despite what people may thing, even if we are seeing the numbers of smokers decrease it still has a large impact on the retailing sector.

I smoke, its not a very good habit but when i started as a teenager its different at that age. You think you are immortal, you dont weight up the consequences of getting addicted you dont think it will ever happen to you. Also come on one cigarette or even 10 cigarettes doesnt give you lung cancer. Teenagers arent stupid they know this and figure by the time the bad health affects (which are cumalative) come around they ll have quit.

Smokers arent stupid either, they are addicts. As to whether a blanket ban would work, i dont think so most addicts are very good at getting the fix, regardless of how difficult it is.

I am working on giving up smoking, i just dont think it would help tbh.

juddd · 12-08-2007 10:59PM

Donald Fagen wrote:

Wow - the epitome of ignorance AND stupidity. What an amazing post.

Is that all you have to add to the discussion?

blisterman wrote:

This is a ridiculous statement.
Firstly, it already is illegal to sell tobacco to teenagers.
Secondly, everyone knows that smoking will kill you. Teenager or not. I knew that when I was 5..

Firstly,teenagers still seem to be able to buy smokes, if they were banned they would not be able to get them as easily if not at all.
Secondly, everyone does know smokin can kill you, and you knew this when you were 5?...wow!!

Thirdly, why should the government be blamed, if someone is too weak willed that they can't give up?..

who is blaming the government for them being week willed?

I don't even smoke. I just think people should be able to make their own decisions...

Ahh yes to make a decision based on all the facts and the variety of alternatives before them, a persons decision can easily be swayed to do the right thing or the wrong thing depending on the circumstances, I would prefer if my childrens children did not have to make that kind of decision.

Ban the production and selling of all tobacco products!!!

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