Need to vent my anger - slow drivers

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:12PM

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I've said it before and I've said it again, speed doesn't kill - INAPPROPRIATE speed kills.

Someone doing 5-10km/h over the posted limit on a motorway/HQDC is a lot less of a risk, than someone doing 100 km/h (or even the legal 80 km/h in many cases!) on a twisty, poorly-surfaced R-roads.

Besides, you're giving out about people breaking the law by speeding, yet ignoring that sitting in the outside lane on a motorway is (as has already been pointed out) also against the law. Can't have it both ways!

And in reference to an earlier point you made - what Gay Byrne is doing lecturing people on road safety is beyond me, save for the fact that he's one of the most recognizable faces (in this country of 3rd rate, D-list celebrities) to the middle-aged/older generation. :rolleyes:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!! "Jasus lads, sure fu*k that law about speedin', sure I don't want to stick to that one at all, so I'll just ignore it! Jasus, I heard about a new law about people having to stay outa the overtaking lane if I want to overtake them at 140KPH, funny I don't know exactly what law it is or where I heard it but I'm sure it's up there on the statute books and by JAsus the Gardai better start enforcing that law, because I think it's causing all the road deaths!!!"...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane in case anyone who wants to break the speed limit wants to over take me!?!?! How do you explain that!?!?! Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:15PM

Darragh29 wrote:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!! "Jasus lads, sure fu*k that law about speedin', sure I don't want to stick to that one at all, so I'll just ignore it! Jasus, I heard about a new law about people having to stay outa the overtaking lane if I want to overtake them at 140KPH, funny I don't know exactly what law it is or where I heard it but I'm sure it's up there on the statute books and by JAsus the Gardai better start enforcing that law, because I think it's causing all the road deaths!!!"...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane in case anyone who wants to break the speed limit wants to over take me!?!?! How do you explain that!?!?! Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

So what's your point now? Irish traffic law is stupid? If that's your opinion how could you possibly criticise people who exceed the speed limit as defined by Irish traffic law?

Why not start thinking before typing in anger?

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:19PM

Have a read of: http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

Look at the section: "Using lanes properly"

You will see:
Lane 2

On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.

On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

Clearly this is not a legal document, but is one of the first documents google throws up.

Perhaps you need to take the driving test again?

Michael G · 07-08-2007 07:20PM

I think the point the OP was really making was that it was the two slow cars together that caused the problem - they doubled the overtaking distance for those behind. My girlfriend is still a learner. She is already very good and she is going to be a very capable, safe driver but at this stage she still needs to drive a bit below the limit on smaller roads. Driving with me accompanying her, she is entitled to do that. Yesterday in Kells, she had to stop when some cnut pulled out across her, taking advantage of her L-plate to bully her. Being a bit disconcerted she stalled when she tried to take off again, and some thick bitch behind started to blow the horn at her. I have to confess that I got out and swore at the cow, which only got me into trouble with both women (you can never win).

But two slow drivers in a tight convoy, or a slow driver up the arse of a truck or a tractor and trailer, are a different matter. That is simply dangerous driving and is every bit as culpable as speeding.

mikemac · 07-08-2007 07:20PM

cayenne wrote:

Came of the motorway in Portlaoise and there were 3 cars in front of me. All of us were ticking along at 100 km/h with plenty of space between us. However we quickly came across 2 cars travelling, in what appeared to be convoy going at about 70, 80 kph.

Getting back to the OP's post, the road between Portlaoise and Castletown is quite good but not great.
I don't know the speedlimit for the area but imo 80 km/h in nighttime conditions is a reasonable speed and I wouldn't be impatient staying behind someone at that speed. But that's just me and I don't own a high powered car

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:20PM

iblis wrote:

I don't really want to debate this with you further as you are clearly not thinking through your points, or those of anyone else. However I had to pick on this one.

What are statistically the safest roads in our fine country Darragh29? You appear to not really have any point to make, as you are diverting from what was being discussed and searching for something to argue. Try coming up with a valid point.

The point is on topic and couldn't be more thought through. My point is that the people out there complaining about slow drivers hogging lanes and being discourteous, and these people, as you have admitted to us in your own case, are SPEEDING. Yes, motorways are probably the safest roads in our country. So by extending that same logic, your point now appears to be that because you think that nobody has ever been killed on an Irish motorway, that the speed limit signs we see on motorways are not real signs, we are free to accept or ignore any particular speed sign anywhere, if we think that statistical evidence might exist that points to that particular location being a lower risk than any other location??? How many times a day is there a crash on the M50??? I don't think a day goes by when there isn't a crash on each side of this motorway in Ireland. Your point is completely empty, if everyone followed your reasoning, we'd all be completely and utterly fu*ked.

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:22PM

iblis wrote:

So what's your point now? Irish traffic law is stupid? If that's your opinion how could you possibly criticise people who exceed the speed limit as defined by Irish traffic law?

Why not start thinking before typing in anger?

I'm not angry, I'm literally laughing my arse off here at what I'm reading! What I'm saying is that the law is the law and should be respected.

padi89 · 07-08-2007 07:22PM

cayenne wrote:

the first of the 100kph cars eventually overtook, close to Castletown on a continuous white line, through sheer frustration. Everyone else, including myself eventually got by but had to break the limit to overtake on the double.

I understand your frustration OP but in all fairness overtaking on continuous and double white lines is asking for trouble.How many times have you met someone coming in the opposite direction overtaking on these road markings and went "stupid cnut"????

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:23PM

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_lane

It's not an Irish thing:
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology's website on "Keep Right Laws" points out that:

This law refers to the "normal" speed of traffic, not the "legal" speed of traffic. The 60 MPH driver in a 55 MPH zone where everybody else is going 65 MPH must move right..."[1]

It is also illegal in many states in the U.S. to use the "far left" or passing lane on a major highway as a travelling lane (as opposed to passing), or to fail to yield to faster moving traffic that is attempting to overtake in that lane. For example, Colorado's "Left Lane Law" states:

A person shall not drive a motor vehicle in the passing lane of a highway if the speed-limit is sixty-five miles per hour or more unless such person is passing other motor-vehicles that are in a non-passing lane...(emphasis added)[2]

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:25PM

Darragh29 wrote:

and these people, as you have admitted to us in your own case, are SPEEDING

lol, where did I say that, pray tell?

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:25PM

iblis wrote:

Have a read of: http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

Look at the section: "Using lanes properly"

You will see:
Lane 2

On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.

On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

Clearly this is not a legal document, but is one of the first documents google throws up.

Perhaps you need to take the driving test again?

This is a great start. Now, could you point to the part of the document where is says that if I'm overtaking a vehicle to my left at 120KPH but you want to overtake me in the overtaking lane at 140KPH or in any event at some speed in excess of 120KPH as you have already told us you want to do, that I have to abandon my overtaking exercise and move into the left hand lane on top of the car I'm already overtaking to give way to you???

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:26PM

Darragh29 wrote:

I'm not angry, I'm literally laughing my arse off here at what I'm reading! What I'm saying is that the law is the law and should be respected.

But your saying the overtaking lane rule on a motorway, which is law, is stupid? How does that fit with "the law is the law"?

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:27PM

Darragh29 wrote:

This is a great start. Now, could you point to the part of the document where is says that if I'm overtaking a vehicle to my left at 120KPH but you want to overtake me in the overtaking lane at 140KPH or in any event at some speed in excess of 120KPH as you have already told us you want to do, that I have to abandon my overtaking exercise and move into the left hand lane on top of the car I'm already overtaking to give way to you???

That was never my point. I mentioned it was illegal to sit in the overtaking lane, even if you are doing 120kph, ie if you are not overtaking. Then you started telling me I had admitted speeding...

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:29PM

iblis wrote:

lol, where did I say that, pray tell?

iblis wrote:

I personally believe that a great many people on our roads believe they are helping the situation when they, for example, sit in the overtaking lane on a motorway at 120kmh (which is an offence by the way).

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you??? If you are travelling at above 120KPH on a motorway, you're breaking the law and causing a risk. Does this answer your question???

_Kaiser_ · 07-08-2007 07:30PM

Darragh29 wrote:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!!

Err.. ok.. anyway...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane

There's a lot of road traffic regulations and laws that aren't signposted everywhere. Remember that if you're driving on a motorway, you're legally supposed to have passed the driving test, so should be aware of these.

Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

Iblis covered that above

_Kaiser_ · 07-08-2007 07:33PM

Darragh29 wrote:

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you??? If you are travelling at above 120KPH on a motorway, you're breaking the law and causing a risk. Does this answer your question???

As has been pointed out to you already, unless you're a cop it's not your job to enforce the road traffic laws, and certainly not because you take offence to someone driving faster (legally or not) than you are.

May I suggest that if you're that annoyed, take note of the reg and ring the TrafficWatch line, but that doesn't mean you should violate the law yourself just to "prove your point"

MarkN · 07-08-2007 07:33PM

Listen Darragh, you're the typical Irish driver who knows everything and can't see anything from a modern, 21st century point of view.

Penalty points came in for speeding 4 years ago - did the road deaths drop? Not really.

Random breath testing came in last year - did the road deaths drop? Without a doubt.

You see, SPEED is not the big killer. DRINK is.

Everyone's situation is different and the fact that the discs on my car are probably bigger than the WHEELS on yours, makes it a far safer car on the roads at any speed and this is the point you need to take in - speed is not always the thing which kills people, I don't remember the last time I saw ANY high performance car on the 6.1 news showing the carnage left after a crash killing all the occupants. In fact, if you can find such an image from a crash in this country, I will give you the keys of my car.

Get down off your high horse, buy the rules of the road and come back to us with some sensible argument.

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:35PM

iblis wrote:

But your saying the overtaking lane rule on a motorway, which is law, is stupid? How does that fit with "the law is the law"?

I asked you for the piece of legisation which states that it is an offence to travel in an overtaking lane doing 120KPH and you can't find it so you throw out something you found on the Irish School of Motoring Website or somewhere.

If you visit http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ and read the Road Traffic Act, 2004, you'll see the basis in law for our speed limits. Can you point to similar legislation that back up your argument that if you have a hunch that the road you're travelling on is safe, that you are free to ignore the RTA???

_Kaiser_ · 07-08-2007 07:37PM

Darragh29 wrote:

I asked you for the piece of legisation which states that it is an offence to travel in an overtaking lane doing 120KPH

You've answered your own question really.. Unless you're actually overtaking, you're not supposed to be in the lane at all.

MarkN · 07-08-2007 07:37PM

Darragh, the rules of the road state that you drive on the left :rolleyes:

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:38PM

Kaiser2000 wrote:

As has been pointed out to you already, unless you're a cop it's not your job to enforce the road traffic laws, and certainly not because you take offence to someone driving faster (legally or not) than you are.

May I suggest that if you're that annoyed, take note of the reg and ring the TrafficWatch line, but that doesn't mean you should violate the law yourself just to "prove your point"

This is the same auld sh*te when it comes to this country, everyone ignoring the most basic tenet of the law when it comes to driving and then blaming everyone else around them for road deaths. I'm not violating any lay by refusing to give way to a speeding motorist when overtaking a vehicle to my left when staying within the speed limit myself. Again, please tell me which piece of road traffic legislation you are quoting????

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:39PM

Darragh29 wrote:

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you??? If you are travelling at above 120KPH on a motorway, you're breaking the law and causing a risk. Does this answer your question???

Actually I'm annoyed because they believe they are doing good "enforcing" the speed limit, when they are in fact breaking the law themselves, be it from up on their high horses.

You are a perfect example by the sounds of things. Rant on.

MaxFlower · 07-08-2007 07:41PM

I believe the OP was asking why some drivers don't pull into the hard shoulder and allow others to overtake. I used to but not any more and here's why.
Too many times I passed the car I had pulled to the side for a few miles down the road stopped at some burger joint or hanging out the window talking to a mate. I guess he wasn't in such a great hurry after all.
Cars/cyclists/pedestrians generaaly enter onto the road sometimes without looking. They always assume that there will be nothing on the hard shoulder. Due to the lack lustre roads maintenance, hard shoulders are a collection point for debris or may be pot holed. I may not be in a rush but I don't need a puncture either.
Finally, the amount of time saved nowadays is not worth it 9 times out of 10 as the roads are saturated with traffic. Its really up to the NRA etc to just give us the roads we have paid for many times over so we don't have to rely on the guy in front to do the right thing.

_Kaiser_ · 07-08-2007 07:45PM

Darragh29 wrote:

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you???

Ok.. I'll try and clarify:

Driver in front could be weaving, braking randomly and without cause, tailgating the car in front etc - and personally I'd rather have these sort of people behind me rather than in front of me.

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:45PM

MarkN wrote:

Everyone's situation is different and the fact that the discs on my car are probably bigger than the WHEELS on yours, makes it a far safer car on the roads at any speed and this is the point you need to take in - speed is not always the thing which kills people, I don't remember the last time I saw ANY high performance car on the 6.1 news showing the carnage left after a crash killing all the occupants. In fact, if you can find such an image from a crash in this country, I will give you the keys of my car.

Get down off your high horse, buy the rules of the road and come back to us with some sensible argument.

I've heard it all now. "My discs are bigger than your wheels so those speed limits don't apply to me, they're for you and other people with small discs!".. :cool:

Maybe I'll head off and come back when my discs are as big as yours!?!?!

cyclopath2001 · 07-08-2007 07:48PM

daedalus2097 wrote:

Last time I checked it was not to be used as a normal carriage way but could be used at the driver's discretion to move into to allow a faster vehicle to pass safely.

Did you check the relevant legislation?

It's normally illegal to drive on the hard shoulder unless you're stopping or are rejoining traffic on the roadway. Pulling over and continuing at 80kph would be illegal and potentially dangerous.

The law requires drivers to drive on the roadway. A broken yellow line marks the left-hand edge of the roadway.

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:49PM

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Ok.. I'll try and clarify:

Driver in front could be weaving, braking randomly and without cause, tailgating the car in front etc - and personally I'd rather have these sort of people behind me rather than in front of me.

Yeah, or the more likely scenario could be that the driver in front is overtaking at 120KPH another driver to his/her left and has you behind them who see's them as a hinderance to you who wants to continue doing 140KPH, because maybe you're another guy with bigger discs than other road users.

Darragh29 · 07-08-2007 07:52PM

iblis wrote:

Actually I'm annoyed because they believe they are doing good "enforcing" the speed limit, when they are in fact breaking the law themselves, be it from up on their high horses.

You are a perfect example by the sounds of things. Rant on.

Someone who is sticking to the speed limit is not enforcing the law, at least not upon anyone but themselves.

I'll ask again, breaking what law???

iblis · 07-08-2007 07:55PM

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a9

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

So if it's safe for them to move over to the left and they do not, then yes. It is against the law.

Still searching for the motorway one, but as you've no doubt already realised, it will take some time. Why don't you ask a cop?

Mortmain · 07-08-2007 07:56PM

i ... wonder ... if ... i ... sit... in ... the ... typing ... lane and ... type ... really ... really ... slowly ... will ... it ... annoy ... the ... pedants ... or ... make ... them ... more ... impatient ...;)

Need to vent my anger - slow drivers

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