Need to vent my anger - slow drivers

cayenne

I was travelling down from Dublin to Limerick last night, shortly before midnight. A good bit of traffic about, particularly going in the direction of Dublin. Came of the motorway in Portlaoise and there were 3 cars in front of me. All of us were ticking along at 100 km/h with plenty of space between us. However we quickly came across 2 cars travelling, in what appeared to be convoy going at about 70, 80 kph. While the second car could have been tailgating, I got the sense that it was travelling so close to the car in front that they were together. Anyway, as a result myself and the 3 cars in front of me had to slow down. The front 2 failed to move in and the first car tried on numerous occasions to overtake but either thought it was too risky or there was traffic coming in the opposite direction. Given the volume of traffic was heavy enough for that time of night, there wasn't that many opportunities to overtake safely. The lead 2 continued to tootle along, oblivious to the train of cars now behind. This train went on into Mountrath and the first of the 100kph cars eventually overtook, close to Castletown on a continuous white line, through sheer frustration. Everyone else, including myself eventually got by but had to break the limit to overtake on the double. Why o why do people not just move in? It's these drivers who are causing people to overtake in dangerous places as a result of frustration and anger. I know they introduced some law saying it was forbidden to drive in the hard shoulder (I am open to correction) but a simple move to the hard shoulder to allow faster cars by isn't have as dangerous as forcing them to take risky overtaking moves on bends, white lines etc. Am I being unreasonable?

Heinrich

Unreasonable - questionable

Impatient - definitely.

daedalus2097

I didn't hear anything about a new law not allowing you to drive on the hard shoulder. Last time I checked it was not to be used as a normal carriage way but could be used at the driver's discretion to move into to allow a faster vehicle to pass safely. Obviously this guy didn't give a toss about the train of cars behind him, but I still see a lot of people pulling in like that - I do it myself the odd time when I get tailgaters up my exhaust...

mike65

I didn't hear anything about a new law not allowing you to drive on the hard shoulder

Only on Motorways is use of the HS forbidden.

Roll on the motorways. Or the 2+1 which will in fact be 2+2 the NRA has decided.

Mike.

Gregor Samsa

Driving in the hard shoulder is only prohibited on Motorways.

While people in slower moving vehicles should definitely show courtesy to other road users and pull in when appropriate to allow them to overtake safely, I don't think it's right to say that a slow driver "forces" or "causes" anyone to do anything dangerous. The drivers behind are responsible for their own actions. It's people's own responsibility to see that their driving decisions aren't based on frustration and anger.

cpoh1

I always pull in if there's a car coming up behind me on a decent stretch of road, whether they are going 5 or 50kph over the speed limit.

You were being neither unreasonable or impatient. Its a problem irish drivers in particular have, the old "im doing close to the speed limit and have paid my car tax so im not pulling over" mentality. Common curtosy should have all drivers aware of whats travelling behind them and the decency not to hold them up.

Travel at whatever speed you want folks but have the decency to accomodate others who want to travel faster.

iblis

cpoh1 wrote:

I always pull in if there's a car coming up behind me on a decent stretch of road, whether they are going 5 or 50kph over the speed limit.

You were being neither unreasonable or impatient. Its a problem irish drivers in particular have, the old "im doing close to the speed limit and have paid my car tax so im not pulling over" mentality. Common curtosy should have all drivers aware of whats travelling behind them and the decency not to hold them up.

Travel at whatever speed you want folks but have the decency to accomodate others who want to travel faster.

I have to agree. When people drive like that they are generally sitting there looking in their rear view mirror cursing the other driver for sitting poised to overtake if an opportunity should arise. They don't want the following driver there, the following driver doesn't want to be there, but pig-ignorance (I can't think of a nicer phrase) leaves both parties sat there getting more and more frustrated with eachother. It boggles the mind when all that is required is for the front runner to let the follower past, and then they are gone. Problem solved.

Unfortunately I have seen this behaviour in several of my relatives. One of whom even slows down (intentionally annoying the following driver) whenever they feel someone is trying too hard to get by...

Spud83

cayenne wrote:

Everyone else, including myself eventually got by but had to break the limit to overtake on the double.

At least they aren't breaking the law. People like you who cause road accidents by speeding and over-taking dangerously. No matter how pissed off you get you shouldn't endanger your life and the lives of everyone else on the roads because you are in a hurry.

iblis

alanmurphy83 wrote:

At least they aren't breaking the law. People like you who cause road accidents by speeding and over-taking dangerously. No matter how pissed off you get you shouldn't endanger your life and the lives of everyone else on the roads because you are in a hurry.

LMAO

Ever hear tell of people treating the symptom rather than the cause? How well does that usually work out? Treat the symptom once, it goes away, but another comes along.

There's quite a supply of current and future drivers to come. Let's just chastise them all for being human and unhappy to be controlled by some random stranger, and carry on like that forever. That'll solve the problem... When we run out of submissive drivers...

You should be happy. If this is what causes road accidents, you can play your part in reducing them instead of whinging.

Andrewf20

I am also someone who likes to make decent progress and have seen some very dodgy overtaking as I did when coming back from Lahinch up the N7 on Sunday evening due to slow drivers. This country badly needs 2 laned roads if its to curb the frustration of being stuck behind didering motorists.

It took me bloody 1hr 35 mins to get from Kilfenora to Limerick due to slow motorists. I was very late back to Dublin that night as a result, and then having to face being up for work at 6am the next morning. I wasnt a happy bunny. Cant wait to be back in the USA where eating up the miles is a relatively stress free experience.

Spud83

iblis wrote:

LMAO

Ever hear tell of people treating the symptom rather than the cause? How well does that usually work out? Treat the symptom once, it goes away, but another comes along.

There's quite a supply of current and future drivers to come. Let's just chastise them all for being human and unhappy to be controlled by some random stranger, and carry on like that forever. That'll solve the problem... When we run out of submissive drivers...

You should be happy. If this is what causes road accidents, you can play your part in reducing them instead of whinging.

I like that, I'm whinging because I'm stating a fact that fast drivers who overtake dangerously cause accidents. While you aren't whinging when complaining about slow drivers. I just don’t see the difference.

Mr. Larson

alanmurphy83 wrote:

I like that, I'm whinging because I'm stating a fact that fast drivers who overtake dangerously cause accidents. While you aren't whinging when complaining about slow drivers. I just don’t see the difference.

You don't see the difference... which explains a lot about why you have the view that you do have about the issue... :rolleyes:

iblis

alanmurphy83 wrote:

I like that, I'm whinging because I'm stating a fact that fast drivers who overtake dangerously cause accidents. While you aren't whinging when complaining about slow drivers. I just don’t see the difference.

There is no difference (presuming you refer to the verb I was using). However, the subject matter differs. If that is your finest retort (picking on my wording rather than my content), you clearly have not thought through your argument. Or mine.

I am not whinging about slow drivers at all. I am whinging about drivers who through their own self-righteousness contribute to the very thing they believe they are fighting for.

Are you that person, sitting there, cursing their rear view mirror, when if you forgot the false pride for a moment (as you clearly do not want to compete with another's speed) there would be no issue, and you would no longer contribute to cases of people speeding for this reason?

You have already stated you believe these cases and road deaths are directly linked. So if you are that person, you ARE contributing to our road deaths.

All it takes is for the person in question to provide (without risk to themselves, which I believe is completely possible in the distances we are talking) an adequate overtaking opportunity.

Andrewf20

Complaining can be justifed if the drivers in question are driving sufficiently slowly as I see on a non to infrequent basis. Half the problem is the fact that oppourtunities to pass can be very difficult due to no drivers fault, but due to the fact that alot of Irish roads are twisty, single laned, with blind brows and or with traffic coming the opposite direction. I have in the past been stuck behind tractors for up to 4 miles at 20mph which would in my opinion would make most peoples blood boil.

MarkN

I know the Dublin - Limerick route very well and my only advice is to buy yourself a powerful car.

You can't change the idiots on the roads but you can change your car.

I would have no problem overtaking 5, 6, 7 cars in a row on a straight stretch on that route and it's all done very briskly (I'm not suggesting you do this in anything less than a car with 200 bhp!).

bmwman

If people are driving at 60 kph on a 80 kph zone they should not be on the road, where as someone driving at 79 kph should not have some clown sitting up there backside because they left Cork or whatever ten minutes late and might miss the start of Eastenders! This attitude of slow drivers cause accidents is so stupid, you should hear yourselves. "the slow driver got me so worked up and I HAD to overtake him, it's human nature that when something affects you, you have to forget your brain and use impulse, I didn't mean to kill all the family of the on coming car judge", I'd say that would get you off in court!

agent_smith

I agree with most of the people here. I think it is ignorant when people are driving to such an extent under the speed limit. Apart from motorways you are allowed to move into the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to over take safely.
Driving at such a ridiculously slow speed when conditions would have allowed those two cars to travel at or near the speed limit is crazy It does cause impatience and causes people to get pissed off. It is for that very reason the driving test will fail you for not making progress. Not making reasonable progress (reasonable meaning conditions allow ... not necessarily the speed signposted at teh side of the road) is considered at home and abroad to be a hazard to other road users.
Just my 0.02 though.

iblis

bmwman wrote:

This attitude of slow drivers cause accidents is so stupid, you should hear yourselves. "the slow driver got me so worked up and I HAD to overtake him, it's human nature that when something affects you, you have to forget your brain and use impulse, I didn't mean to kill all the family of the on coming car judge", I'd say that would get you off in court!

Sir, you are not listening. I find it very interesting to observe that the people on this thread who are not actually reading and digesting what is being said are the ones putting forward your "argument". It pains me to call it such, it really does.

I shall requote myself for your benefit:

iblis wrote:

I am not whinging about slow drivers at all. I am whinging about drivers who through their own self-righteousness contribute to the very thing they believe they are fighting for.

Are you that person, sitting there, cursing their rear view mirror, when if you forgot the false pride for a moment (as you clearly do not want to compete with another's speed) there would be no issue, and you would no longer contribute to cases of people speeding for this reason?

You have already stated you believe these cases and road deaths are directly linked. So if you are that person, you ARE contributing to our road deaths.

All it takes is for the person in question to provide (without risk to themselves, which I believe is completely possible in the distances we are talking) an adequate overtaking opportunity.

To explain, again... The problem is not how slow people drive, but their attitude toward other drivers. The purpose is not to condone speeding, nor is it to chastise those who choose to drive 20kph under the limit. The purpose is to hilight the fact that driving without due consideration for other road users (when it is intentional) or without due care and attention (when it is unintentional) actually contributes to the problem (regardless of whether speeding should be condoned). It does not help the situation. I personally believe that a great many people on our roads believe they are helping the situation when they, for example, sit in the overtaking lane on a motorway at 120kmh (which is an offence by the way).

Drivers are people. People behave in certain ways. People in general (I won't speak for yourself good sir), do not like to have a stranger impose their will upon theirs. In this case it results in people feeling they have no alternative but to speed to "free" themselves. Again, the speeding that results is not necesarily to be condoned. However, it does result. And the people that cause it (regardless of whether the speeding should be condoned) have the ability to reduce it with great ease.

bmwman

Sir, you are not listening

No my learned friend I believe it is you that is not reading my point.

If people are driving at 60 kph on a 80 kph zone they should not be on the road

I said slow people SHOULD NOT be on the road as they are a pain and do cause agro. People driving at 99kph in a 100kph zone may annoy one plank as he wants to drive at 200 kphs because he is late, but they are in the right and SHOULD NOT have to move out of the way for a million reasons. That is the point I was making.

Mortmain

I've always been in two minds on this one, I do feel myself getting frustrated when i'm the one being held up, however I have driven with older people who, whilst competent drivers do not like to go above a certain speed. I understand that one can easily form the view that such people should pull in regularly but something niggles away at me and I have to admit that these people should have every right to stay on the main carriageway if that's where they feel safer.

Better roadswould doubtlessly help, but I surmise that we would still have similar discussions about people who won't pull into the inside lane. All in all, cars make people unreasonable (some won't pull in, others won't have patience) and tolerance is much underrated. Ideally, we would all leave earlier and enjoy the process of driving from a to b - utopia!

That said, i'm often guilty of impatience myself, and slow people on footpaths and at ATM's p*ss me right off - that's life I guess!

Darragh29

Mortmain wrote:

That said, i'm often guilty of impatience myself, and slow people on footpaths and at ATM's p*ss me right off - that's life I guess!

I think this is a major problem in Ireland these days, not just on the roads but maybe in particular in relation to driving. I see this every single day, especially when I get to the Westlink Toll Bridge, if someone ahead in the automatic/no change toll lane doesn't get through the barrier in like 5 seconds, you see people starting to shake their heads, bang steering wheels frantically beep horns, acting over the top and changing lanes because they are being held up for like 30 seconds on their precious mission to pick up their kids or whatever. Funnily enough, the further away you get from Dublin, the less you see this behaviour. I was up in Claremorris in Mayo a few months ago and was amazed at how patient and basically human and civil people who were driving were to each other, people saluting other drivers for letting them out of a junction, just basic respect for others that unfortunately you very rarely see in Dublin now because everyone is in a hurry and can't be held up for 10 seconds, the "get the fu*k out of my way" brigade as I call them...

Only a few months ago, we had the head of the RSA (Gay Byrne, I know, I'm not fond of him either!), begging the whole country over the radio waves to "please do 5K under the speed limit", on one particular bank holiday, but as usual we get the same core of know-it-all drivers on here who know more than the RSA when it comes to road safety, saying that anyone who is doing 5K under the speed limit in a nuisance and is in breach of the law, etc, etc, etc.

How do we square up this hole then??? How come the head of the Road safety Authority was begging us all to do 5K under the speed limit but you have people here consistently saying that if you are not actually doing the maximum speed limit, you are a parasite and a threat to road safety???

iblis

bmwman wrote:

No my learned friend I believe it is you that is not reading my point.



I said slow people SHOULD NOT be on the road as they are a pain and do cause agro. People driving at 99kph in a 100kph zone may annoy one plank as he wants to drive at 200 kphs because he is late, but they are in the right and SHOULD NOT have to move out of the way for a million reasons. That is the point I was making.

Very well, perhaps I was too quick to dismiss your point.

My point again, using yours as the example: refusing to let him by even if it is safe to do so does not help the situation. It does not change the fact that he may be a plank. It does not mean it is ok to drive at 200kph. But it does not make our roads any safer.

All it does is fuel frustration on both sides. Which makes both sides less safe. The plank will wait less time to do something stupid next time. And the overtakee will likely be less polite to the next overtaker, even if they are not in the same league of plankiness. This may in turn magnify the plankiness of the new overtaker, if they do a lot of miles for example and frequently come across such overtakees. Vicious circle.

If you let them by (and I'm not suggesting putting yourself in danger to do so), they are gone without incident. That one spark of danger, be it one in the inferno that is our roads, is extinguished.

Does that make any sense?

ToxicPaddy

Unfortunately slower drivers are common on Irish roads, whether be it a nervous driver, elderly driver or they just are more comfortable at 80kph rather than 100kph, I think at this stage its just better to accept it, sit back, and wait for the best and safest opportunity to over take.

I have to admit I used to be one of the most impatient drivers you'd ever meet when I was younger.. now after years of driving on some terrible roads, I have learned to relax and wait..

Getting all frustrated only puts you under stress, they probably dont even notice, so I personally dont see the point in getting all stressed out when its not gonna do the slightest bit of difference except make you do something irrational and possibly dangerous.

Tox

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

I personally believe that a great many people on our roads believe they are helping the situation when they, for example, sit in the overtaking lane on a motorway at 120kmh (which is an offence by the way).

Hmmm, why would someone sitting in any lane on a motorway doing 120KPH be a hinderance to you, unless you yourself wanted to go faster than 120KPH and thereby break the already high motorway speed limit, break the law and put the lives of other road users at substantially greater risk of injury or death??? At last we have someone on the thread who openly admits to dangerous speeding on a motorway, it took a while!

MarkN

Darragh29 wrote:

Hmmm, why would someone sitting in any lane on a motorway doing 120KPH be a hinderance to you, unless you yourself wanted to go faster than 120KPH and thereby break the already high motorway speed limit, break the law and put the lives of other road users at substantially greater risk of injury or death??? At last we have someone on the thread who openly admits to dangerous speeding on a motorway, it took a while!

Well Darragh - check out the rules of the road. Because it is NOT up to you to enforce the speed limit. If you are in the outside lane of a motorway and you are not overtaking someone then YOU are breaking the law and you are just as bad, if not worse than someone speeding as you are too ignorant to even realise you are breaking the law.

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

How do we square up this hole then??? How come the head of the Road safety Authority was begging us all to do 5K under the speed limit but you have people here consistently saying that if you are not actually doing the maximum speed limit, you are a parasite and a threat to road safety???

After my last blunder I shall be a little more cautious and state that I am presuming you are including my points. I hope not though, as again I simply have to remind you what my point was.

There is nothing wrong with driving under the speed limit. Even 20kph, is a bit strange in fair conditions, but maybe you have an injury that affects your driving. Maybe you feel more in control of the vehicle at that speed, and as it's a temporary thing it certainly should not affect your driving status. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

My point is purely regarding people who either haven't realised there is someone behind them (as I frequently see on the M11 with people doing 100kph in the overtaking lane...) or people who don't bother to give another road user the opportunity to pass as easily as they safely can do so.

I feel that this truly does affect road safety in a negative fashion. It can be as simple as someone driving in the right hand side of the lane while someone is following, trying to overtake. It doesn't have to involve hard shoulders. Just move over as far left as is possible without endangering yourself. I'm sure it's even worded like that in the old Rules Of The Road (haven't read new ones).

The bottom line is if overtakees don't make it difficult for overtakers (they shouldn't be expected to stay off the road or anything), then overtakers don't get frustrated with overtakees, and likewise overtakees don't get frustrated with overtakers. Everyone just is civil and minds their own business. People don't expect others to drive slowly because they are driving slowly, and people don't expect others to drive faster because they are.

Darragh29

MarkN wrote:

Well Darragh - check out the rules of the road. Because it is NOT up to you to enforce the speed limit. If you are in the outside lane of a motorway and you are not overtaking someone then YOU are breaking the law and you are just as bad, if not worse than someone speeding as you are too ignorant to even realise you are breaking the law.

I know it's not up to me to enforce a speed limit, but it's equally not open to you to break the speed limit. If you are speeding on the road (which you are clearly doing if you are overtaking someone on a motorway when they are doing 120KPH, regardless of what lane they are in), according to the Road Safety Authority and the Gardai, you are the number one cause of carnage on our roads. I'm not breaking any law doing 120KPH in an overtaking lane, once I am overtaking someone. You on the other hand are breaking the most fundamental law in relatioon the road traffic legislation if you are passing out a car on a motorway that is travelkling at 120KPH. I suppose the Gardai are wrong for telling us to slow down because speeding on roads is causing peple to be killed. The Road Safety Authority are wrong, who are asking us to slow down to UNDER the speed limit because people are getting killed by speeding motorists such as yourself, but you are right because you're in a precious hurry, is that it???

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

Hmmm, why would someone sitting in any lane on a motorway doing 120KPH be a hinderance to you, unless you yourself wanted to go faster than 120KPH and thereby break the already high motorway speed limit, break the law and put the lives of other road users at substantially greater risk of injury or death??? At last we have someone on the thread who openly admits to dangerous speeding on a motorway, it took a while!

MarkN wrote:

Well Darragh - check out the rules of the road. Because it is NOT up to you to enforce the speed limit. If you are in the outside lane of a motorway and you are not overtaking someone then YOU are breaking the law and you are just as bad, if not worse than someone speeding as you are too ignorant to even realise you are breaking the law.

This is exactly my point! I never said I did go faster than that on any road. I never said it was a hinderance to me. I said it is not right to do so. What MarkN said is exactly what I would have said had I been quick enough. It is an overtaking lane. Not a fast lane as so many of our countrymen seem to believe. My point was purely that people think they are doing the right thing when they are just putting themselves in danger for no reason.

The same can be applied to people who choose not to let a following vehicle to pass safely even though they have the opportunity to do so with no risk to themselves.

_Kaiser_

Darragh29 wrote:

Hmmm, why would someone sitting in any lane on a motorway doing 120KPH be a hinderance to you, unless you yourself wanted to go faster than 120KPH and thereby break the already high motorway speed limit, break the law and put the lives of other road users at substantially greater risk of injury or death??? At last we have someone on the thread who openly admits to dangerous speeding on a motorway, it took a while!

I've said it before and I've said it again, speed doesn't kill - INAPPROPRIATE speed kills.

Someone doing 5-10km/h over the posted limit on a motorway/HQDC is a lot less of a risk, than someone doing 100 km/h (or even the legal 80 km/h in many cases!) on a twisty, poorly-surfaced R-roads.

Besides, you're giving out about people breaking the law by speeding, yet ignoring that sitting in the outside lane on a motorway is (as has already been pointed out) also against the law. Can't have it both ways!

And in reference to an earlier point you made - what Gay Byrne is doing lecturing people on road safety is beyond me, save for the fact that he's one of the most recognizable faces (in this country of 3rd rate, D-list celebrities) to the middle-aged/older generation. :rolleyes:

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

if you are overtaking someone on a motorway when they are doing 120KPH, regardless of what lane they are in), according to the Road Safety Authority and the Gardai, you are the number one cause of carnage on our roads

I don't really want to debate this with you further as you are clearly not thinking through your points, or those of anyone else. However I had to pick on this one.

What are statistically the safest roads in our fine country Darragh29? You appear to not really have any point to make, as you are diverting from what was being discussed and searching for something to argue. Try coming up with a valid point.

bmwman

Does that make any sense?

I think were on the same page now.

Darragh29

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I've said it before and I've said it again, speed doesn't kill - INAPPROPRIATE speed kills.

Someone doing 5-10km/h over the posted limit on a motorway/HQDC is a lot less of a risk, than someone doing 100 km/h (or even the legal 80 km/h in many cases!) on a twisty, poorly-surfaced R-roads.

Besides, you're giving out about people breaking the law by speeding, yet ignoring that sitting in the outside lane on a motorway is (as has already been pointed out) also against the law. Can't have it both ways!

And in reference to an earlier point you made - what Gay Byrne is doing lecturing people on road safety is beyond me, save for the fact that he's one of the most recognizable faces (in this country of 3rd rate, D-list celebrities) to the middle-aged/older generation. :rolleyes:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!! "Jasus lads, sure fu*k that law about speedin', sure I don't want to stick to that one at all, so I'll just ignore it! Jasus, I heard about a new law about people having to stay outa the overtaking lane if I want to overtake them at 140KPH, funny I don't know exactly what law it is or where I heard it but I'm sure it's up there on the statute books and by JAsus the Gardai better start enforcing that law, because I think it's causing all the road deaths!!!"...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane in case anyone who wants to break the speed limit wants to over take me!?!?! How do you explain that!?!?! Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!! "Jasus lads, sure fu*k that law about speedin', sure I don't want to stick to that one at all, so I'll just ignore it! Jasus, I heard about a new law about people having to stay outa the overtaking lane if I want to overtake them at 140KPH, funny I don't know exactly what law it is or where I heard it but I'm sure it's up there on the statute books and by JAsus the Gardai better start enforcing that law, because I think it's causing all the road deaths!!!"...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane in case anyone who wants to break the speed limit wants to over take me!?!?! How do you explain that!?!?! Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

So what's your point now? Irish traffic law is stupid? If that's your opinion how could you possibly criticise people who exceed the speed limit as defined by Irish traffic law?

Why not start thinking before typing in anger?

iblis

Have a read of: http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

Look at the section: "Using lanes properly"

You will see:
Lane 2

On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.

On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

Clearly this is not a legal document, but is one of the first documents google throws up.

Perhaps you need to take the driving test again?

Michael G

I think the point the OP was really making was that it was the two slow cars together that caused the problem - they doubled the overtaking distance for those behind. My girlfriend is still a learner. She is already very good and she is going to be a very capable, safe driver but at this stage she still needs to drive a bit below the limit on smaller roads. Driving with me accompanying her, she is entitled to do that. Yesterday in Kells, she had to stop when some cnut pulled out across her, taking advantage of her L-plate to bully her. Being a bit disconcerted she stalled when she tried to take off again, and some thick bitch behind started to blow the horn at her. I have to confess that I got out and swore at the cow, which only got me into trouble with both women (you can never win).

But two slow drivers in a tight convoy, or a slow driver up the arse of a truck or a tractor and trailer, are a different matter. That is simply dangerous driving and is every bit as culpable as speeding.

mikemac

cayenne wrote:

Came of the motorway in Portlaoise and there were 3 cars in front of me. All of us were ticking along at 100 km/h with plenty of space between us. However we quickly came across 2 cars travelling, in what appeared to be convoy going at about 70, 80 kph.

Getting back to the OP's post, the road between Portlaoise and Castletown is quite good but not great.
I don't know the speedlimit for the area but imo 80 km/h in nighttime conditions is a reasonable speed and I wouldn't be impatient staying behind someone at that speed. But that's just me and I don't own a high powered car

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

I don't really want to debate this with you further as you are clearly not thinking through your points, or those of anyone else. However I had to pick on this one.

What are statistically the safest roads in our fine country Darragh29? You appear to not really have any point to make, as you are diverting from what was being discussed and searching for something to argue. Try coming up with a valid point.

The point is on topic and couldn't be more thought through. My point is that the people out there complaining about slow drivers hogging lanes and being discourteous, and these people, as you have admitted to us in your own case, are SPEEDING. Yes, motorways are probably the safest roads in our country. So by extending that same logic, your point now appears to be that because you think that nobody has ever been killed on an Irish motorway, that the speed limit signs we see on motorways are not real signs, we are free to accept or ignore any particular speed sign anywhere, if we think that statistical evidence might exist that points to that particular location being a lower risk than any other location??? How many times a day is there a crash on the M50??? I don't think a day goes by when there isn't a crash on each side of this motorway in Ireland. Your point is completely empty, if everyone followed your reasoning, we'd all be completely and utterly fu*ked.

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

So what's your point now? Irish traffic law is stupid? If that's your opinion how could you possibly criticise people who exceed the speed limit as defined by Irish traffic law?

Why not start thinking before typing in anger?

I'm not angry, I'm literally laughing my arse off here at what I'm reading! What I'm saying is that the law is the law and should be respected.

padi89

cayenne wrote:

the first of the 100kph cars eventually overtook, close to Castletown on a continuous white line, through sheer frustration. Everyone else, including myself eventually got by but had to break the limit to overtake on the double.

I understand your frustration OP but in all fairness overtaking on continuous and double white lines is asking for trouble.How many times have you met someone coming in the opposite direction overtaking on these road markings and went "stupid cnut"????

iblis

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_lane

It's not an Irish thing:
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology's website on "Keep Right Laws" points out that:

This law refers to the "normal" speed of traffic, not the "legal" speed of traffic. The 60 MPH driver in a 55 MPH zone where everybody else is going 65 MPH must move right..."[1]

It is also illegal in many states in the U.S. to use the "far left" or passing lane on a major highway as a travelling lane (as opposed to passing), or to fail to yield to faster moving traffic that is attempting to overtake in that lane. For example, Colorado's "Left Lane Law" states:

A person shall not drive a motor vehicle in the passing lane of a highway if the speed-limit is sixty-five miles per hour or more unless such person is passing other motor-vehicles that are in a non-passing lane...(emphasis added)[2]

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

and these people, as you have admitted to us in your own case, are SPEEDING

lol, where did I say that, pray tell?

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

Have a read of: http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/motorway.html

Look at the section: "Using lanes properly"

You will see:
Lane 2

On a two-lane motorway, use this for overtaking only and move back into lane 1 when you have finished. You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.

On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.

Clearly this is not a legal document, but is one of the first documents google throws up.

Perhaps you need to take the driving test again?

This is a great start. Now, could you point to the part of the document where is says that if I'm overtaking a vehicle to my left at 120KPH but you want to overtake me in the overtaking lane at 140KPH or in any event at some speed in excess of 120KPH as you have already told us you want to do, that I have to abandon my overtaking exercise and move into the left hand lane on top of the car I'm already overtaking to give way to you???

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

I'm not angry, I'm literally laughing my arse off here at what I'm reading! What I'm saying is that the law is the law and should be respected.

But your saying the overtaking lane rule on a motorway, which is law, is stupid? How does that fit with "the law is the law"?

iblis

Darragh29 wrote:

This is a great start. Now, could you point to the part of the document where is says that if I'm overtaking a vehicle to my left at 120KPH but you want to overtake me in the overtaking lane at 140KPH or in any event at some speed in excess of 120KPH as you have already told us you want to do, that I have to abandon my overtaking exercise and move into the left hand lane on top of the car I'm already overtaking to give way to you???

That was never my point. I mentioned it was illegal to sit in the overtaking lane, even if you are doing 120kph, ie if you are not overtaking. Then you started telling me I had admitted speeding...

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

lol, where did I say that, pray tell?

iblis wrote:

I personally believe that a great many people on our roads believe they are helping the situation when they, for example, sit in the overtaking lane on a motorway at 120kmh (which is an offence by the way).

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you??? If you are travelling at above 120KPH on a motorway, you're breaking the law and causing a risk. Does this answer your question???

_Kaiser_

Darragh29 wrote:

This is so IRISH it's just laughable!!! What I'm seeing here now is Paddy's selective acceptance and appreciation of Irish laws!!!

Err.. ok.. anyway...

It's funny how I see speed limit signs on every motorway telling me what the speed limit is, but I never see a sign telling me to stay out of the outside lane

There's a lot of road traffic regulations and laws that aren't signposted everywhere. Remember that if you're driving on a motorway, you're legally supposed to have passed the driving test, so should be aware of these.

Also, could you point me to exactly what law I am breaching if I'm in an overtaking lane overtaking a car to my left and you want to overtake me in excess of the speed limit???

Iblis covered that above

_Kaiser_

Darragh29 wrote:

The only conclusion that can be taken from the above statement you made in relation to your annoyance at people "who sit in the overtaking lane at 120KPH", is that you must want to travel faster than 120KPH. If you didn't want to travel faster than 120KPH, why on earth would someone driving in front oof you at the same speed be a source of annoyance to you??? If you are travelling at above 120KPH on a motorway, you're breaking the law and causing a risk. Does this answer your question???

As has been pointed out to you already, unless you're a cop it's not your job to enforce the road traffic laws, and certainly not because you take offence to someone driving faster (legally or not) than you are.

May I suggest that if you're that annoyed, take note of the reg and ring the TrafficWatch line, but that doesn't mean you should violate the law yourself just to "prove your point"

MarkN

Listen Darragh, you're the typical Irish driver who knows everything and can't see anything from a modern, 21st century point of view.

Penalty points came in for speeding 4 years ago - did the road deaths drop? Not really.

Random breath testing came in last year - did the road deaths drop? Without a doubt.

You see, SPEED is not the big killer. DRINK is.

Everyone's situation is different and the fact that the discs on my car are probably bigger than the WHEELS on yours, makes it a far safer car on the roads at any speed and this is the point you need to take in - speed is not always the thing which kills people, I don't remember the last time I saw ANY high performance car on the 6.1 news showing the carnage left after a crash killing all the occupants. In fact, if you can find such an image from a crash in this country, I will give you the keys of my car.

Get down off your high horse, buy the rules of the road and come back to us with some sensible argument.

Darragh29

iblis wrote:

But your saying the overtaking lane rule on a motorway, which is law, is stupid? How does that fit with "the law is the law"?

I asked you for the piece of legisation which states that it is an offence to travel in an overtaking lane doing 120KPH and you can't find it so you throw out something you found on the Irish School of Motoring Website or somewhere.

If you visit http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ and read the Road Traffic Act, 2004, you'll see the basis in law for our speed limits. Can you point to similar legislation that back up your argument that if you have a hunch that the road you're travelling on is safe, that you are free to ignore the RTA???

_Kaiser_

Darragh29 wrote:

I asked you for the piece of legisation which states that it is an offence to travel in an overtaking lane doing 120KPH

You've answered your own question really.. Unless you're actually overtaking, you're not supposed to be in the lane at all.

MarkN

Darragh, the rules of the road state that you drive on the left :rolleyes: