666 Mark of the Beast.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 12:12PM

ned78 wrote:

No, Run_to_da_Hills is much more interested in fantastic claims, rather than actually researching anything of scientific merit.

I would imagine though, if RFID tags do become prevailent in the left wrist (For storing medical info, like a wristband, etc), there will be some lunatics who will assume that the Bible meant the right hand when viewed by another person - ie : Your left, my right. People can interpret these things any way they want.

I am well aware of the Merits of RFID and no doubt this is what the premoters and Governments that are introducing RFID would like us to know, i.e. storing medical info, smart id cards, electronic tagging, smart weapons that will only activate with a corresponding chip, anti kidnapping device, night club entry, safer air travel, RFID to start your car etc. The same promoters of this system are obviously not going to inform you that every time you pass a corresponding scanner whether its boarding a train, entering a hospital or supermarket your location is pinpointed on this planet.

As regards to what the Bible says, You would want to be stupid not to be able to recognise your right hand.

robindch wrote:

So what do you make of Laurer's website? Do you think that he specifically designed the barcodes so that they could be stuck to people's foreheads and hands? And if so, what do you make of the fact that this hasn't happened, and that barcodes are now on their way out?

It is an interesting website and I myself believe that George J. Laurer may have been totally unaware at the time that the guard bars of his code would add up to that number. I believe that the code may have been computer generated. Initially the code was to be used as a voluntary stocking aid. It now since becomes mandatory throughout the globe. The only factor holding back RFID from taking over the barcode is its cost.

The hidden 666 in the barcode went totally undisclosed for approximately 8 years before Mary Stewart Relph let the cat out of the bag and published a book called the new money system in 1982. It gave a complete breakdown of both UPC and EAN codes and an introduction to understanding the binary numerical system

Hivemind187 · 26-07-2007 12:12PM

This is nuts.

Barcodes tattooed to the skin are known to be unreadable by machines due to discoloration, changes in skin pattern, texture, moisture, skin reflectivity.

Its utter cods.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 12:40PM

Hivemind187 wrote:

This is nuts.

Barcodes tattooed to the skin are known to be unreadable by machines due to discoloration, changes in skin pattern, texture, moisture, skin reflectivity.
Its utter cods.

RFID technology illiminates all these problems.

robindch · 26-07-2007 02:04PM

rtdh wrote:

It gave a complete breakdown of both UPC and EAN codes and an introduction to understanding the binary numerical system

And like virtually everything that she wrote -- I read parts of this book in the 80's -- she was completely wrong. Relfe didn't know what she was talking about and completely misinterpreted what she saw.

A short explanation. There are two sets of mappings from bars to numbers, one for the left side and one for the right side, so that a barcode can be read upside-down and the right way up without getting the codes back to front. In the mapping for the right side digits, the number "6" is represented by bar-space-bar-(4 spaces) (XoXoooo). What Relfe failed to notice was that the guard bars at each end of the UPC are not XoXooo, but they're actually bar-space-bar (XoX) at each end, and space-bar-space-bar-space (oXoXo) in the middle, which is different.

666 does not appear on barcodes because the guard bars do not represent "six". You can see how the codes are different here:

http://www.wikihow.com/Read-12-Digit-UPC-Barcodes

JimiTime · 26-07-2007 02:16PM

Got to say, reading the links here, I'd say its a crock RTTH.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 02:51PM

robindch wrote:

And like virtually everything that she wrote -- I read parts of this book in the 80's -- she was completely wrong. Relfe didn't know what she was talking about and completely misinterpreted what she saw.

I dissagree with much of her book, she predicted false claims about the EEC that never materialised, She predicted that the barcode would be the mark of the beast.

However she is correct about the 666 hidden in the barcode. I have studied the subject on binary numbers before I had any access to the Internet. That earlier link I sent you explains quite well how to work out the hidden number. The binary coding and numerical values of the UPC code have not changed one bit since 1974. Are you trying to tell me now that the guard bars of barcode is 616?

robindch wrote:

666 does not appear on barcodes because the guard bars do not represent "six". You can see how the codes are different here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Read-12-Digit-UPC-Barcodes

http://www.rense.com/general20/666.htm

JimiTime wrote:

Got to say, reading the links here, I'd say its a crock RTTH.

Wait and see, the technology is now availible to fulfill Revelation 13 vs 16 to 18. It was not availible 20 years ago.

robindch · 26-07-2007 03:23PM

rtdh wrote:

However she is correct about the 666 hidden in the barcode.

I'm not sure if you read the important paragraph in the middle of my post where I explained a little bit about how bar codes work which also explains why Relfe was wrong.

The thin Bars at each end and in the middle look like the codes for "6" but they are not the codes for "six" because they are the wrong size. Relfe didn't understand what she was looking. Jeff Rense is similarly clueless.

rtdh wrote:

It was not availible 20 years ago.

It was available when the text was written in the first century -- ink or dye works fine too if all you have to write is "666" (or "616").

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 03:43PM

robindch wrote:

I'm not sure if you read the important paragraph in the middle of my post where I explained a little bit about how bar codes work which also explains why Relfe was wrong.

The thin Bars at each end and in the middle look like the codes for "6" but they are not the codes for "six" because they are the wrong size. Relfe didn't understand what she was looking. Jeff Rense is similarly clueless.

I suggest you get a pair of glasses.

robindch wrote:

It was available when the text was written in the first century -- ink or dye works fine too if all you have to write is "666" (or "616").

If this prophecy is in accordance with all the perverted modern Bibles I would totally agree with you that a splash of Ink would be sufficient to fulfill the prophecy. However this is not the case, according to the 1611 King James and the origional Greek texts the "mark" (charagma) is IN (epi) the hand and IN the Forehead.

JimiTime · 26-07-2007 04:00PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Wait and see, the technology is now availible to fulfill Revelation 13 vs 16 to 18. It was not availible 20 years ago.

r u saying that this technology will eventually be the mark of the beast then?

Run_to_da_hills · 26-07-2007 04:15PM

JimiTime wrote:

r u saying that this technology will eventually be the mark of the beast then?

I believe it is heading in that direction.

BrianCalgary · 26-07-2007 04:20PM

JimiTime wrote:

^^ I never realised that scripture before. the whole thing of buying and selling etc. interesting. Fo those who say Nero was what was being referred to, did nero give a mark to folk in order to trade etc? Revelation is a great book to sink ur teeth into. Obviously not for a non-believer, as they just think its rubbish, but for the faithful, gr8 IMO!!!

In Corinth in the first century, if you wanted to trade goods, you needed the emporers approval to conduct business. As it is today, here at least, if you wish to conduct business within the City of Calgary you must obtain all local licenses, etc. The license must be displayed in a visible area within your business.

However in Corinth you had to bow down and worship the Emporer as god in order to recieve the Emporers mark, in order to trade.

In Calgary there is no need to bow down and worship anyone or anything in order to obtain yoru license.

The verse in Revelation would have had that meaning to the inhabitants of the first century AD. In order to trade you had to deny Christ.

robindch · 26-07-2007 04:22PM

rtdh wrote:

I suggest you get a pair of glasses.

And I respectfully suggest that you read my post again where I explain what the codes are. Can you see the difference between "XoX" (ends) and "XoXoooo" ("6")?

Run_to_da_hills · 27-07-2007 04:58PM

BrianCalgary wrote:

In Corinth in the first century, if you wanted to trade goods, you needed the emporers approval to conduct business. As it is today, here at least, if you wish to conduct business within the City of Calgary you must obtain all local licenses, etc. The license must be displayed in a visible area within your business.

However in Corinth you had to bow down and worship the Emporer as god in order to recieve the Emporers mark, in order to trade.

In Calgary there is no need to bow down and worship anyone or anything in order to obtain yoru license.

The verse in Revelation would have had that meaning to the inhabitants of the first century AD. In order to trade you had to deny Christ.

What about those living outside the boundaries of the Roman Empire during the time of Nero? These people could carry on business without any emperor’s mark or submitting any allegiance to the Nero. Others could have easily fled across borders if they wanted to escape his tyranny.

According to Revelation 13 it is more than just a local issue, if it was it would have stated it. "And he causeth ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads"

robindch wrote:

And I respectfully suggest that you read my post again where I explain what the codes are. Can you see the difference between "XoX" (ends) and "XoXoooo" ("6")?

Yes I have studied it, I wouldnt buy it.

Owen · 27-07-2007 05:03PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

I believe it is heading in that direction.

Unfortunately, it's fear, misunderstand, and doubt like that that generated the dark ages. Without the Dark Ages, we would have had the industrial relvolution far earlier than it did happen (Remember the Greeks were experiementing with the Antikythera Mechanism, and Hero was experimenting with Steam), and we would be colonising space by now.

Run_to_da_hills · 27-07-2007 05:29PM

ned78 wrote:

Unfortunately, it's fear, misunderstand, and doubt like that that generated the dark ages. Without the Dark Ages, we would have had the industrial relvolution far earlier than it did happen (Remember the Greeks were experiementing with the Antikythera Mechanism, and Hero was experimenting with Steam), and we would be colonising space by now.

One has the right to be concerned and also speak out about modern day developments that have the capibility of erroding our civil liberties. RFID "chip in card" technology is currently been forced upon us by our governments, multinationals, banking and transport companies in the name of "security and convenience" etc but they are not giving us all the facts.

JimiTime · 27-07-2007 05:44PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

One has the right to be concerned and also speak out about modern day developments that have the capibility of erroding our civil liberties. RFID "chip in card" technology is currently been forced upon us by our governments, multinationals, banking and transport companies in the name of "security and convenience" etc but they are not giving us all the facts.

I agree that you can be concerned and look out for things like you obviously do. however, personally I would be apprehensive about being so certain. The truth is, we don't, and probably won't know until it happens, so its all speculation until then.

Owen · 27-07-2007 05:50PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

One has the right to be concerned and also speak out about modern day developments that have the capibility of erroding our civil liberties. RFID "chip in card" technology is currently been forced upon us by our governments, multinationals, banking and transport companies in the name of "security and convenience" etc but they are not giving us all the facts.

Asbolutely you have the right to be concerned, but before speaking out do the research.

First of all, RFID has nothing to do with "Chip in card", RFID is a separate technology, using passive circuitry to store information. RFID is just a method of information transfer, so there's nothing that RFID is doing that isn't already being done. For example, in the US, they're putting RFID into passports, so instead of the passport control officer having to type in your passport number, they'll just rest it on a mat instead. Same goal, different approach, that's all.

With medical RFID implants, they'll be a gift to the human race. If everyone was indeed chipped, and you were rushed to hospital after a bad car accident, they could scan your left wrist, and instantly know your blood group, next of kin, and any illnesses you have, or medications you're allergic to. Otherwise someone who's wearing a medical wrist band, and has their bracelet broken in a car accident could be given potentially lethal treatment.

As regards to the Governments 'not giving us all the facts', RFID is an open technology. Anyone with a moderate engineering aptitude can read the specifications, buy an RFID reader and see what's being stored in the chips themselves. The memory capacity of the chips is quite small relatively speaking, and most forms of encryption used thus far have been easily broken. It would be damned near impossible for the conspiracy theory you're fabricating to come to fruition.

Tzetze · 27-07-2007 06:08PM

ned78 wrote:

With medical RFID implants, they'll be a gift to the human race. If everyone was indeed chipped, and you were rushed to hospital after a bad car accident, they could scan your left wrist, and instantly know your blood group, next of kin, and any illnesses you have, or medications you're allergic to. Otherwise someone who's wearing a medical wrist band, and has their bracelet broken in a car accident could be given potentially lethal treatment.

Provided that they wouldn't be used to keep tricky little details like patient's health insurance status, governed by affording exorbitant premiums for ever-increasingly-corporate 'healthcare', otherwise it's to the end of that rather long, grotty looking queue of proles with ya!

robindch · 27-07-2007 06:09PM

rtdh wrote:

Yes I have studied it, I wouldnt buy it.

<gags> I give up trying to explain it -- I've more fun things to do with my time!

But I'm interested to know *why* you don't buy it. I mean, the code that these bar codes are written in is very clearly defined and when you write "666" in this code, you don't get the guard bars that Relphe thinks read "666".

It's a bit like if Relphe had said that "gorm" in irish meant "red", even though everybody knows that it means "blue". Why would anybody believe Relphe when she's clearly making an elementary spelling mistake?

And whatever about Relphe, I just don't understand how you can claim with any degree of credibility that the first thing that this guy Laurer did when he invented the UPC scheme was to misspell the most important bit of it.

Run_to_da_hills · 27-07-2007 08:11PM

ned78 wrote:

Asbolutely you have the right to be concerned, but before speaking out do the research.

First of all, RFID has nothing to do with "Chip in card", RFID is a separate technology, using passive circuitry to store information. RFID is just a method of information transfer, so there's nothing that RFID is doing that isn't already being done. For example, in the US, they're putting RFID into passports, so instead of the passport control officer having to type in your passport number, they'll just rest it on a mat instead. Same goal, different approach, that's all.

With medical RFID implants, they'll be a gift to the human race. If everyone was indeed chipped, and you were rushed to hospital after a bad car accident, they could scan your left wrist, and instantly know your blood group, next of kin, and any illnesses you have, or medications you're allergic to. Otherwise someone who's wearing a medical wrist band, and has their bracelet broken in a car accident could be given potentially lethal treatment.

As regards to the Governments 'not giving us all the facts', RFID is an open technology. Anyone with a moderate engineering aptitude can read the specifications, buy an RFID reader and see what's being stored in the chips themselves. The memory capacity of the chips is quite small relatively speaking, and most forms of encryption used thus far have been easily broken. It would be damned near impossible for the conspiracy theory you're fabricating to come to fruition.

RFID is a "chip in card" and I am aware that these Differentiate from sim based chips that are used in all current bank cards. However Visa are now combining an all in one card containing both. http://www.rfidnews.org/news/2006/12/14/londons-oyster-card-to-be-combined-with-visa-contactless-from-barclaycard/

With regards to governments not giving us the facts I ordered a new passport last February, It was not until several weeks later that I found out that all Irish passports since October 20th 2006 contained RFID. If someone wants the facts they have to search for themselves.

What is stopping a terrorist purchasing an RFID wand and singling out a particular person or nationality from a distance in a crowd carrying one of these cards or a “medical implant”? Or a smart bomb using RFID technology that would be primed to go off when the frequency of a particular person or nationality is transmitted close by. This might seem far fetched now but only a few years ago you would have thought the very same about ATM skimming.

The medical benefits of RFID implants cannot be denied and this is the first thing that will catch your attention when you log on to the verichip site. http://www.verichipcorp.com/ It is a major sales pitch for these companies. They are obviously not going to tell you that all your demographic data can be scanned unknowingly for up to 10 metres away or that these chips cannot be switched off. The current Verichip can hold 128 characters 40 words or 6 lines.

As with any new technology that has been developed it is only a matter of time before it is cracked, and I am sure RFID passports and smart cards without a doubt will fall victim. Already these so called foolproof biometric passports have been cloned. It is a cat and mouse game. The ultimate solution would be to develop a foolproof system that could alienate any offender from society.

Ciaran500 · 27-07-2007 08:34PM

So where does Christiniaty come into this?

PDN · 27-07-2007 09:07PM

ned78 wrote:

Unfortunately, it's fear, misunderstand, and doubt like that that generated the dark ages. Without the Dark Ages, we would have had the industrial relvolution far earlier than it did happen (Remember the Greeks were experiementing with the Antikythera Mechanism, and Hero was experimenting with Steam), and we would be colonising space by now.

Actually the "dark ages" weren't dark after all. They were a period of scientific and economic advance after the stagnation of the Roman Empire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages

Run_to_da_hills · 27-07-2007 09:23PM

Ciaran500 wrote:

So where does Christiniaty come into this?

Christians are warned in the book of revelation not to accept any mark in their body synonymous with the number 666 to used in connection with buying, selling or making a form allegiance. It is considered the unpardonable sin. There is speculation among many churches that the RFID implant may be the mark.

Owen · 27-07-2007 11:40PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

With regards to governments not giving us the facts I ordered a new passport last February, It was not until several weeks later that I found out that all Irish passports since October 20th 2006 contained RFID. If someone wants the facts they have to search for themselves.

Strange, I read several articles in both the Times, and the Examiner as well as a whole online commotion about it.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

What is stopping a terrorist purchasing an RFID wand and singling out a particular person or nationality from a distance in a crowd carrying one of these cards or a “medical implant”? Or a smart bomb using RFID technology that would be primed to go off when the frequency of a particular person or nationality is transmitted close by. This might seem far fetched now but only a few years ago you would have thought the very same about ATM skimming.

Again, please do the research before scaremongering. RFID tags are designed to be used in an extremely short range. Like scanning a barcode at a till (Which will eventually be a use for the tags too). It is possible to buy wallets, and passport covers that actually block RFID transmissions, and likewise, for the medical implants, there are wristbands that do the same. One of the highest concerns of the developers of RFID is the privacy and security of the technology.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

They are obviously not going to tell you that all your demographic data can be scanned unknowingly for up to 10 metres away or that these chips cannot be switched off. The current Verichip can hold 128 characters 40 words or 6 lines.

You're not far off on the memory capacity. The range though I'm skeptical about. In an airport environment, or a hospital environment 10 years from now, they will no doubt have a blanket signal being transmitted on the same frequency as the RFID tags, making it impossible to use them. That, and the density of similar tags in the are will make it harder again. It would be like trying to broadcast on 91.4FM, the existing 2FM signal would drown you out. Then you'll have areas with Hoffman box/shields setup so that in a restricted part of the hospital/airport, the tags can be read. This tech is already developed.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

As with any new technology that has been developed it is only a matter of time before it is cracked, and I am sure RFID passports and smart cards without a doubt will fall victim. Already these so called foolproof biometric passports have been cloned. It is a cat and mouse game.

In fact, it's already happened. There was a proof of concept 24 hours after the first RFID passport was launched. That's why you need other techs as above.

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

The ultimate solution would be to develop a foolproof system that could alienate any offender from society.

It'll never happen. The engineers who wish to break encryption are extremely good ...

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

There is speculation among many churches that the RFID implant may be the mark.

Back OT, I genuinely don't think RFID, or Barcodes have anything to do with Revelations. I can't see how anyone could think so too, RFID will last for a few years until the next greatest thing comes along. I don't think any church has a policy or ethos that you're proposing above, rather, members of the churches, lay people have drawn these conclusions as individuals.

robindch · 27-07-2007 11:56PM

rtdh wrote:

What is stopping a terrorist purchasing an RFID wand and singling out a particular person or nationality from a distance in a crowd carrying one of these cards or a “medical implant”?

What's the point? Why not just shoot them with a gun instead? Why all the fancy technology when a baseball bat will do the same job for a tenner? I think you need to think through the practicalities of your conspiracy a bit more.

rtdh wrote:

This might seem far fetched now but only a few years ago you would have thought the very same about ATM skimming.

You may not be aware that transactions at ATMs are far, far more secure now than they were before chip'and'pin arrived. Full chipcard skimming (ie, extracting all the card data) at ATM, or anywhere else, is currently as close to impossible as makes no practical difference.

.

Run_to_da_hills · 28-07-2007 03:31AM

ned78 wrote:

Strange, I read several articles in both the Times, and the Examiner as well as a whole online commotion about it.

Well we had no choice on the matter our government was Forced into accepting RFID encrypted passports.

ned78 wrote:

Again, please do the research before scaremongering. RFID tags are designed to be used in an extremely short range. Like scanning a barcode at a till (Which will eventually be a use for the tags too). It is possible to buy wallets, and passport covers that actually block RFID transmissions, and likewise, for the medical implants, there are wristbands that do the same. One of the highest concerns of the developers of RFID is the privacy and security of the technology.

Enough range to identify any person passing a portal scanner (door frame) or turn style is sufficient this would be a distance of less than 1 meter. lead is still considered the most effective material for blocking radio waves, I dont intend carrying a lead wallet or wearing a lead wristband! The reason the developers of RFID are very concerned about the privacy issues is because they are dealing with something that is potentially wide open to abuse and also they are up against very strong resistance opposing the use of this technology. http://www.spychips.com/ http://www.antichips.com/what-is-verichip.htm

ned78 wrote:

You're not far off on the memory capacity. The range though I'm skeptical about. In an airport environment, or a hospital environment 10 years from now, they will no doubt have a blanket signal being transmitted on the same frequency as the RFID tags, making it impossible to use them. That, and the density of similar tags in the are will make it harder again. It would be like trying to broadcast on 91.4FM, the existing 2FM signal would drown you out. Then you'll have areas with Hoffman box/shields setup so that in a restricted part of the hospital/airport, the tags can be read. This tech is already developed.

Memory capacity is not important, all that is required is a basic identity number that will access a larger database that will hold all your details. This technology is still in its early stages of development. It is inevitable that they will improve its capacity, range and size. Hitachi have already made them so small that they are now called "powder chips".

ned78 wrote:

In fact, it's already happened. There was a proof of concept 24 hours after the first RFID passport was launched. That's why you need other techs as above.

I am not surprised in the least.

ned78 wrote:

Back OT, I genuinely don't think RFID, or Barcodes have anything to do with Revelations. I can't see how anyone could think so too, RFID will last for a few years until the next greatest thing comes along. I don't think any church has a policy or ethos that you're proposing above, rather, members of the churches, lay people have drawn these conclusions as individuals.

The best thing is to google the subject of the "Mark of the Beast" and you will be surprised at the number of churches worldwide that have an interest in it. I purchased the book "when your money fails" (1982) by Mary Stewart Relph in 1986 as I mentioned before she predicted that the bar code would be the mark which is wrong, however she was bang on up to date when she predicted our civil liberties would be erroded by new technology.

Victory Christian Fellowship on Pearse st had several books on the subject back in the 90ies. I will definitally keep an interest in the "next greatest thing" that comes along

robindch wrote:

What's the point? Why not just shoot them with a gun instead? Why all the fancy technology when a baseball bat will do the same job for a tenner? .

You have to IDENTIFY the culprit first before you bump him off!

robindch wrote:

I think you need to think through the practicalities of your conspiracy a bit more.You may not be aware that transactions at ATMs are far, far more secure now than they were before chip'and'pin arrived. Full chipcard skimming (ie, extracting all the card data) at ATM, or anywhere else, is currently as close to impossible as makes no practical difference.

As our friend NED78 would suggest, someone more than likely would have this cracked already.

robindch · 28-07-2007 02:50PM

rtdh wrote:

The best thing is to google the subject of the "Mark of the Beast" and you will be surprised at the number of churches worldwide that have an interest in it.

Yes, for the very simple reason that the "mark of the beast" sells and people believe it and churches are in the business of selling beliefs. The fact that it has no meaning outside an old book is simply incidental and pretty much irrelevant.

rtdh wrote:

chip and pinsomeone more than likely would have this cracked already.

No, it has not been cracked and is not likely to be cracked any time soon.

Run_to_da_hills · 28-07-2007 07:40PM

robindch wrote:

Yes, for the very simple reason that the "mark of the beast" sells and people believe it and churches are in the business of selling beliefs. The fact that it has no meaning outside an old book is simply incidental and pretty much irrelevant.No, it has not been cracked and is not likely to be cracked any time soon.

Yoo cannot "sell a belief", "the gift of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ"
(Romans 6vs23) and its up to anyone to personally accept it or reject salvation. There are plenty of Christian believers that live by the "old book" that dont attend any of the established churches.

Anyone who has any sort of knowledge of computers knows that any form of incryption will be cracked or cloned in a matter of time through a process known as reverse engineering.

Run_to_da_hills · 13-12-2007 10:34AM

This is another grand example of how we are being conditioned into the cashless society (And being ripped off at the same time by subsidising it) by accepting a "convenient" RFID based tagging system on our toll roads at the expense of loosing our civil liberties. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/barrierfree-toll-to-cost-50pc-more-in-new-plan-1245509.html

SubjectSean · 13-12-2007 09:47PM

If I get chipped in my left hand or somewhere else other than my right hand or forehead then will I still be damned? What about left handed people or people with long fringes? What will they do I wonder, or will the Divvil make everybody have haircuts before he has 'em chipped? Just curious.

666 Mark of the Beast.

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