M1 to Newry - completion date?

DubDani · 15-06-2007 9:50am #1

Hi,

I will soon have to drive more often from Dublin to Newry. Does anyone know when the last stretch of the M1 between Dundalk and Newry is supposed to be open? As that will knock off at least another 10 minutes of the time I need I am very keen on it being finished.

Thanks,
DubDani

Mr Magnolia · 15-06-2007 9:59am

The section from Dundalk to Dromad was opened this week that will save you considerable time though Dromad will no doubt be a little bottle-necked now. I think completion for the m1 to newry is sometime in '08.

Skyhater · 15-06-2007 10:56am

Just to be a little bit picky..... There is no M1 from Dundalk to Newry!
It's going to be the N1 from Dundalk to the Border, then the A1 from The Border to Newry....

Winters · 15-06-2007 12:42pm

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/SchemeActivity-2007/#N1BordertoDundalk

Mayo Exile · 15-06-2007 12:42pm

Originally posted by Mr Magnolia: The section from Dundalk to Dromad was opened this week that will save you considerable time though Dromad will no doubt be a little bottle-necked now. I think completion for the m1 to newry is sometime in '08.

Not the full dual carriageway itself I believe. Parts of the new road are being used as temporary single carriageway as construction work continues. Completion date for the entire project is now believed to be anytime from late August 2007 onwards due to works being ahead of schedule.

Winters · 15-06-2007 12:43pm

Are there any plans to remove Cloghoge Roundabout?

DubDani · 15-06-2007 1:59pm

Thanks for the responses. Glad to hear that another piece of the Street has been opened. Every minute helps.

Mayo Exile · 15-06-2007 2:12pm

Originally posted by Winters: Are there any plans to remove Cloghoge Roundabout?

Hard to know yet. Will probably be altered as the N1/A1 scheme is tied into it. Don't forget though that the A1 Newry Bypass is also to be dualled starting this year i think, which will probably lead to further changes.

murphaph · 15-06-2007 6:00pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Hard to know yet. Will probably be altered as the N1/A1 scheme is tied into it. Don't forget though that the A1 Newry Bypass is also to be dualled starting this year i think, which will probably lead to further changes.

No it's not. The bypass is to be bypassed completely by a new HQDC (possible motorway) much to the west of the existing road. They will (I believe) leave the Cloghogue Roundabout in situ pretty much unaltered until the new bypass is built in 3 or so years!

Alun · 15-06-2007 6:08pm

murphaph wrote:

No it's not. The bypass is to be bypassed completely by a new HQDC (possible motorway) much to the west of the existing road. They will (I believe) leave the Cloghogue Roundabout in situ pretty much unaltered until the new bypass is built in 3 or so years!

Have they taken that into account in the design of the existing M1/N1/A1 design, by already designing in the junction that will connect with this new outer ring road?

murphaph · 15-06-2007 6:19pm

Alun wrote:

Have they taken that into account in the design of the existing M1/N1/A1 design, by already designing in the junction that will connect with this new outer ring road?

Don't have a clue Alun. One would hope so but who knows. Roads Service are a fairly professional outfit but are cash strapped so they may not be able to do what they know is best. Cloghogue mountain is a fair lump of rock to get a road through.

spacetweek · 16-06-2007 6:11pm

murphaph wrote:

No it's not. The bypass is to be bypassed completely by a new HQDC (possible motorway) much to the west of the existing road. They will (I believe) leave the Cloghogue Roundabout in situ pretty much unaltered until the new bypass is built in 3 or so years!

Don't know which roundbout the Cloghogue one is, but the one they're bypassing is the one to the north of Newry. The one to the south will be grade-separated as part of the scheme last I heard, though I dunno if it'll get downgraded.

Mayo Exile · 18-06-2007 11:12am

Originally posted by Murphaph: No it's not. The bypass is to be bypassed completely by a new HQDC (possible motorway) much to the west of the existing road. They will (I believe) leave the Cloghogue Roundabout in situ pretty much unaltered until the new bypass is built in 3 or so years!

Sorry, yes, you are correct. Some further info on it here:

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a1beechhillcloghogue.html

This is actually a far better solution long term. Hopefully will make the existing bypass a bit safer!

Mayo Exile · 20-06-2007 8:50am

Also found this piece from a debate in the Northern Ireland Assembly earlier this month regarding access rights for local people regarding the new dual carriageway from the Cloghogue roundabout down to the border.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/ni/?id=2007-06-04.5.1&s=speaker%3A13893

MDTyKe · 21-06-2007 12:33pm

The N1/A1 is one of the Republic's new "HQDC" High Quality Dual Carraigeway.

It's built to motorway standard, and the only thing different between it and a motorway are the fact that learners/tractors are allowed on it, it has green signs, dashed hard shoulder lines, and no emergency phones (Could be more, but I think that's it)

IMO they should just label it M1, to the border at least, as that means it would just be M1/A1/M1, as opposed to the four.. which makes more sense.

The Newry end will be 3 lanes each side as you approach, to allow for local traffic, and there will be a flyover at the Cloughogue roundabout taking the new road on to the.. new road that's joining on to the new part of the A1. Due to be done in 2012.

To save the confusion, like other countries do, they should just name the road, eg: Northern Expressway (as it's equivalent to the international 'expressway' tag), North-South Expressway or something like that... maybe even name it after someone.

Matt

MDTyKe · 21-06-2007 12:45pm

By the way, forgot to say. You can see some pictures of it (as of last week) here:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=268

Mayo Exile · 22-06-2007 8:55am

Small piece in the June 20th (page 4) edition of the Dundalk Argus that the N1/A1 Dundalk to Newry road may be fully open in early August. Also a friend in work whose son is working on the project says it could be August 2.

Skyhater · 22-06-2007 2:32pm

MDTyKe wrote:

IMO they should just label it M1, to the border at least, as that means it would just be M1/A1/M1, as opposed to the four.. which makes more sense.

They can't give this road "M" status as there is no "reasonable" alternative rout for "L" drivers.

One case of a HQDC that should have "M" status is the N2 Ashbourne bypass!!
For some insane reason they kept it as and "N" road with a 120km/h speed limit. They should have kept the section from the M50 to the first Exit (St Margarets, I think) "N" status with a 100km/h limit, then the remainder "M" status.
(This is because there is no alternative way of getting to the first exit, but the Entire Old N2 is available from the first exit to Ashbourne)

Mayo Exile · 22-06-2007 3:58pm

Another possible reason why they can't call it the M1/A1 scheme is that as it's a joint RoI/NI project, you already have the M1 motorway going from Belfast to Dungannon in NI. So therefore you couldn't have duplication in names for a cross border project.

Of course there is an M3 motorway in Belfast and also the M3 scheme from Dublin to Kells in RoI. As they are in separate durisdictions it doesn't matter in this case.

Stark · 22-06-2007 4:16pm

Skyhater wrote:

They can't give this road "M" status as there is no "reasonable" alternative rout for "L" drivers.

What's wrong with the current route for getting from Dundalk to Newry?

Mayo Exile wrote:

Another possible reason why they can't call it the M1/A1 scheme is that as it's a joint RoI/NI project, you already have the M1 motorway going from Belfast to Dungannon in NI. So therefore you couldn't have duplication in names for a cross border project.

A silly reason for not making a road a motorway.

Stark · 22-06-2007 4:25pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Small piece in the June 20th (page 4) edition of the Dundalk Argus that the N1/A1 Dundalk to Newry road may be fully open in early August. Also a friend in work whose son is working on the project says it could be August 2.

Yay faster beer trips

Mayo Exile · 22-06-2007 4:30pm

Originally posted by Stark: A silly reason for not making a road a motorway.

Also known as bureaucracy....................

spacetweek · 22-06-2007 5:29pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Small piece in the June 20th (page 4) edition of the Dundalk Argus that the N1/A1 Dundalk to Newry road may be fully open in early August. Also a friend in work whose son is working on the project says it could be August 2.

I think this refers to the Republic part. Wesley Johnson checked it out in January of this year and reckoned that, although the ROI part was going well, the NI section had another year of work to go.

spacetweek · 22-06-2007 5:38pm

Stark wrote:

What's wrong with the current route for getting from Dundalk to Newry?

Part of it is being obliterated by the new road, you won't be able to use the old road when the project is complete.

Stark · 22-06-2007 8:54pm

Ah ok, that makes sense.

ardmacha · 22-06-2007 10:04pm

Ah ok, that makes sense.

These sections of road are short and make up only a small part of the Dundalk - Newry route. How hard would it be to build a short section of basic single carriageway alongside the new road (should be motorway) for these stretches?

Victor · 23-06-2007 8:57am

Skyhater wrote:

They can't give this road "M" status as there is no "reasonable" alternative rout for "L" drivers.

But L drivers aren't allowed cross borders. Actually I wonder hwo many people have two L licences.

One case of a HQDC that should have "M" status is the N2 Ashbourne bypass!!

It handles some local traffic at the southern end.

icdg · 24-06-2007 7:59pm

Yep, for various reasons to do with safety and design it was decided to close off the old N2 (R135 now) and place a minor exit between J1 and J2 on the new road to access the old one. Unfortunately this means the road can't be motorway, for this section at least. It has a 120 km/h limit anyway so it doesn't make much difference.

Mayo Exile · 25-06-2007 8:56am

Originally posted by spacetweek: I think this refers to the Republic part. Wesley Johnson checked it out in January of this year and reckoned that, although the ROI part was going well, the NI section had another year of work to go.

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/a1newrydundalk.html

This is Wesley Johnston's updated page on the scheme. Indicates about 8 weeks time as the opening date for the whole project according to his update of 25 June.

Skyhater · 26-06-2007 4:18pm

icdg wrote:

Yep, for various reasons to do with safety and design it was decided to close off the old N2 (R135 now) and place a minor exit between J1 and J2 on the new road to access the old one. Unfortunately this means the road can't be motorway, for this section at least. It has a 120 km/h limit anyway so it doesn't make much difference.

Yep, My argument is that it should be Motorway north of J2!!! No reason why it can't be.

And there is a Difference...... For safety reasons 120km/h should only be reserved for motorways (no L drivers, no tractors, no scooters, no pedestrians, etc., etc.).
It's also a good idea to have Emergency Telephones on such a long stretch of segregated road!!...Motorway regulations demand this.

Mayo Exile · 01-07-2007 5:32pm

With Minister Dempsey about to pass legislation to allow the NRA to reclassify DC's as motorways perhaps it will be the M1/A1 scheme after all...............

Does this mean also that they will have to replace some of the brand new green signage on the route with the all blue stuff when that happens?

ardmacha · 01-07-2007 5:53pm

The N1 is shown as motorway on Google maps. However its status is not just a technical matter. The road is being built to the same standard on both sides of the border. There is an issue at the Northern end re local access for the first few hundred metres, but otherwise it could have been motorway. But politics comes into this, the NI crowd probably didn't want someone saying why does Newry have a motorway to Dublin when it doesn't have one to Belfast? So the only question on the Louth side is whether the road is motorway to some junction beyond the end of the private section. There should be a junction around Flurrybridge I can't see this on Google maps.

Victor · 01-07-2007 8:00pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Does this mean also that they will have to replace some of the brand new green signage on the route with the all blue stuff when that happens?

And to think Rennicks only had to do a 'pick me up' for £30,000.

Mayo Exile · 02-07-2007 9:02am

Originally posted by Victor: And to think Rennicks only had to do a 'pick me up' for £30,000.

Had to google Rennicks. Some interesting hits appeared concerning above sum of money! Is this a cryptic yes then??

Victor · 02-07-2007 6:39pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Is this a cryptic yes then??

Merely a cynical one.

I don't know.

Metrobest · 02-07-2007 9:55pm

MDTyKe wrote:

To save the confusion, like other countries do, they should just name the road, eg: Northern Expressway (as it's equivalent to the international 'expressway' tag), North-South Expressway or something like that... maybe even name it after someone. Matt

A few suggestions...

"Highway to Hell."

"The Gerry Adams Expressway."

"Louth and proud Ulster Express"

"Irish North Link Autoroute (INLA)."

Victor · 02-07-2007 10:01pm

Great Northern Motorway?

MDTyKe · 08-07-2007 9:03am

Well, according to a recent clipping:

The N11 will miss out on any upgrade to motorway status for the foreseeable future. The Department of Transport confirmed this week that five major inter-urban roads would be upgraded from high-grade dual carriageway to motorway status (with a corresponding increase in speed limits), but the N11 would not be one of them.

A department spokesperson said the first tranch of improvements would be made on the N7 to Limerick, N8 to Cork, N4/N6 to Galway, the N9 to Waterford and the M1 to the border.

So it seems it will be upgraded to M after all - by this I mean changing the green signs to blue - I believe it's already due to be 120km/h as I asked the NRA. The 'alternative route' problem doesn't exist within ROI, and theoretically isn't their problem.. so I believe they'll change it over to M1, so finally, yes, it will be M1. I'm assuming then that the A1 will be upgraded to A1(M) as opposed to M1 (due to part of it overtaking the old road). However, to help compensate for the local traffic, they're putting a third lane on each side on the approach to Newry - although this may be 'seperate' from the other two, I don't think it is though.

Most of the Southern/ROI section is opened, apart from the contraflow near the border. The Northern/NI side is almost finished too, with the signs now up. Apparently they're just waiting on the approach to Newry to be finished - where it's going to join up with the existing roundabout.

In the future, there's meant to be a flyover here joining on to the new Newry bypass that's expected to go up (around 2010/2012 or something), in which case it should be freeflow right on to the A1.

Matt

JupiterKid · 08-07-2007 6:51pm

I think that the Clohogue to Beechill section of High Quality dual carriageway, which will replace part of the Newry bypass, is due for completion in 2010. Site clearance has already begun and a contract for the work will be finalised shortly. Then, there will be continuous motorway/dual carriageway from Dublin to Belfast, which there should have been IMO 20 to 30 years ago, but it's better late than never.

The ultimate irony for me is that now, the general quality of the Dublin to Belfast road South of the border is better than that North of the border. I think that the NI roads service do plan to close all the level junctions on the A1 and put new grade separated interchanges in a number of locations.

wwhyte · 09-07-2007 1:36pm

JupiterKid wrote:

I think that the NI roads service do plan to close all the level junctions on the A1 and put new grade separated interchanges in a number of locations.

To the best of my knowledge they plan to grade separate all the junctions as far as Banbridge. Loughbrickland will get a GSJ at the south entrance to the village. The new stretch of road features a number of at-grade junctions which I presume are intended to stay.

Terrontress · 09-07-2007 3:09pm

There have been a load of "site office" type metal structures put in beside the Sheepbridge so I presume work on the road from Colughoge will begin soon.

spacetweek · 09-07-2007 3:33pm

MDTyKe wrote:

So it seems it will be upgraded to M after all - by this I mean changing the green signs to blue - I believe it's already due to be 120km/h as I asked the NRA. The 'alternative route' problem doesn't exist within ROI, and theoretically isn't their problem.. so I believe they'll change it over to M1, so finally, yes, it will be M1. I'm assuming then that the A1 will be upgraded to A1(M) as opposed to M1 (due to part of it overtaking the old road). However, to help compensate for the local traffic, they're putting a third lane on each side on the approach to Newry - although this may be 'seperate' from the other two, I don't think it is though.

What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic.

Though maybe their rollout plan involves building missing links such as this.

Victor · 10-07-2007 12:08am

spacetweek wrote:

What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic.

Is there an alternative minor road under the "Flurry River" label?

ardmacha · 10-07-2007 12:37am

Last time I drove there the old road had a limited overlap with the new one. Google maps suggests that there is a continuous route alongside the new road, so making it motorway wouldn't involve too much work.

Mayo Exile · 11-07-2007 12:15pm

Originally posted by spacetweek:
What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic. Though maybe their rollout plan involves building missing links such as this.
Originally posted by Victor: Is there an alternative minor road under the "Flurry River" label?

There is a minor road on the east of the dual carriageway going from the R174 Ravensdale road north towards the Flurry Bridge junction.

However the old N1 seems to be gone between Feede and Flurry Bridge. If going north up the old Dundalk-Newry Road, now the R132 to Ravensdale, towards the end of that road you come to a roundabout at Feede. What was the 1st exit is now the off ramp coming off the DC to access the R174 (accessed by 2nd exit), and also to access what is now the R132. If you want to get on to the DC again, about 100 yds south of the roundabout there is a new bridge over the DC, and on the far (west) side, there is a ramp there to gain access to the northbound DC.

Further south on the R132 near Thistle Cross (below the turnoff for Ravensdale village) there is another bridge over the DC which allows you to gain access to a minor road going north allowing access to the above mentioned ramp at Feede to access the northbound DC.

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 12:41pm

Is the minor road acceptable as an alternative route given that the vast majority of traffic can use the new road? Does the "alternative route" have to be a 7 metre carriageway with hard shoulders like most of the old N1?

Mayo Exile · 11-07-2007 12:54pm

Originally posted by Ardmacha: Is the minor road acceptable as an alternative route given that the vast majority of traffic can use the new road? Does the "alternative route" have to be a 7 metre carriageway with hard shoulders like most of the old N1?

Doesn't seem so in this case. Don't forget north of Feede Cross you are entering the rather narrow confines of the Ravensdale Valley, which restricts the possibilities of an adequate alternative route. Another proposed route for this entire scheme had it following the railway line west of the Feede and Jonesborough hills which would have led to the current N1 being a viable alternative route.

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 12:58pm

nother proposed route for this entire scheme had it following the railway line west of the Feede and Jonesborough hills which would have led to the current N1 being a viable alternative route.

This route would have been ideal, but wasn't popular with the NI authorities, as much more of it was in their patch, and business interests in the Carrickdale hotel and around.

But if there are to HQDCs declared motorways what (if any) is the definition of an alternative route, can it be a little longer, does it have to of a certain standard and so on.

Skyhater · 11-07-2007 1:13pm

ardmacha wrote:

But if there are to HQDCs declared motorways what (if any) is the definition of an alternative route, can it be a little longer, does it have to of a certain standard and so on.

Good Question..... In theory, ever DC has some type of an alternative rout!!!

I'd imagine the alternative rout should be of "N" or "R" class road, and not add more then say 25% to the Journey Distance????? (That would be my spec, for what it's worth)

Having said that.... what's the alternative rout for the M50:
- Some "R" roads, country lanes and streets???
- Maybe Doubling the journey time (....when the M50 is moving......Halving it when it's not)

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 2:30pm

I'd imagine the alternative rout should be of "N" or "R" class road,

The only traffic not allowed to use motorways is tractors and the like. Why would these need a N class road.

Now in the Dundalk Newry case the old road exists for 90% of the way, so there is a case for linking those sections with a road of decent quality.

And before someone mentions L drivers, these are learning to drive and any part of the road network can be used for such instruction, there is no particular need or right for them to use a particular stretch.

Skyhater · 11-07-2007 4:00pm

ardmacha wrote:

The only traffic not allowed to use motorways is tractors and the like. Why would these need a N class road.

Now in the Dundalk Newry case the old road exists for 90% of the way, so there is a case for linking those sections with a road of decent quality.

And before someone mentions L drivers, these are learning to drive and any part of the road network can be used for such instruction, there is no particular need or right for them to use a particular stretch.

Alternative routes are not just for those who "are not allowed" to drive on motorways, they are also for people who don't feel comfortable driving on them!! There are many old people, etc who are not comfortable driving on motorways.

(...now I don't want a "...they shouldn't be on the road" comment.....It's a genuine concern for some people who are perfectly good drivers)

Simple fact is that they could have provided an alternative rout parallel to the new DC, however they choose not to (For Financial reasons, etc).
We'll just have to live with this stretch of road having "N" status.
And I also think it should have a 100km/h limit!!!! Only "M" roads should have 120km/h limits.

M1 to Newry - completion date?

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