M1 to Newry - completion date?

ardmacha · 01-07-2007 5:53pm

The N1 is shown as motorway on Google maps. However its status is not just a technical matter. The road is being built to the same standard on both sides of the border. There is an issue at the Northern end re local access for the first few hundred metres, but otherwise it could have been motorway. But politics comes into this, the NI crowd probably didn't want someone saying why does Newry have a motorway to Dublin when it doesn't have one to Belfast? So the only question on the Louth side is whether the road is motorway to some junction beyond the end of the private section. There should be a junction around Flurrybridge I can't see this on Google maps.

Victor · 01-07-2007 8:00pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Does this mean also that they will have to replace some of the brand new green signage on the route with the all blue stuff when that happens?

And to think Rennicks only had to do a 'pick me up' for £30,000.

Mayo Exile · 02-07-2007 9:02am

Originally posted by Victor: And to think Rennicks only had to do a 'pick me up' for £30,000.

Had to google Rennicks. Some interesting hits appeared concerning above sum of money! Is this a cryptic yes then??

Victor · 02-07-2007 6:39pm

Mayo Exile wrote:

Is this a cryptic yes then??

Merely a cynical one.

I don't know.

Metrobest · 02-07-2007 9:55pm

MDTyKe wrote:

To save the confusion, like other countries do, they should just name the road, eg: Northern Expressway (as it's equivalent to the international 'expressway' tag), North-South Expressway or something like that... maybe even name it after someone. Matt

A few suggestions...

"Highway to Hell."

"The Gerry Adams Expressway."

"Louth and proud Ulster Express"

"Irish North Link Autoroute (INLA)."

Victor · 02-07-2007 10:01pm

Great Northern Motorway?

MDTyKe · 08-07-2007 9:03am

Well, according to a recent clipping:

The N11 will miss out on any upgrade to motorway status for the foreseeable future. The Department of Transport confirmed this week that five major inter-urban roads would be upgraded from high-grade dual carriageway to motorway status (with a corresponding increase in speed limits), but the N11 would not be one of them.

A department spokesperson said the first tranch of improvements would be made on the N7 to Limerick, N8 to Cork, N4/N6 to Galway, the N9 to Waterford and the M1 to the border.

So it seems it will be upgraded to M after all - by this I mean changing the green signs to blue - I believe it's already due to be 120km/h as I asked the NRA. The 'alternative route' problem doesn't exist within ROI, and theoretically isn't their problem.. so I believe they'll change it over to M1, so finally, yes, it will be M1. I'm assuming then that the A1 will be upgraded to A1(M) as opposed to M1 (due to part of it overtaking the old road). However, to help compensate for the local traffic, they're putting a third lane on each side on the approach to Newry - although this may be 'seperate' from the other two, I don't think it is though.

Most of the Southern/ROI section is opened, apart from the contraflow near the border. The Northern/NI side is almost finished too, with the signs now up. Apparently they're just waiting on the approach to Newry to be finished - where it's going to join up with the existing roundabout.

In the future, there's meant to be a flyover here joining on to the new Newry bypass that's expected to go up (around 2010/2012 or something), in which case it should be freeflow right on to the A1.

Matt

JupiterKid · 08-07-2007 6:51pm

I think that the Clohogue to Beechill section of High Quality dual carriageway, which will replace part of the Newry bypass, is due for completion in 2010. Site clearance has already begun and a contract for the work will be finalised shortly. Then, there will be continuous motorway/dual carriageway from Dublin to Belfast, which there should have been IMO 20 to 30 years ago, but it's better late than never.

The ultimate irony for me is that now, the general quality of the Dublin to Belfast road South of the border is better than that North of the border. I think that the NI roads service do plan to close all the level junctions on the A1 and put new grade separated interchanges in a number of locations.

wwhyte · 09-07-2007 1:36pm

JupiterKid wrote:

I think that the NI roads service do plan to close all the level junctions on the A1 and put new grade separated interchanges in a number of locations.

To the best of my knowledge they plan to grade separate all the junctions as far as Banbridge. Loughbrickland will get a GSJ at the south entrance to the village. The new stretch of road features a number of at-grade junctions which I presume are intended to stay.

Terrontress · 09-07-2007 3:09pm

There have been a load of "site office" type metal structures put in beside the Sheepbridge so I presume work on the road from Colughoge will begin soon.

spacetweek · 09-07-2007 3:33pm

MDTyKe wrote:

So it seems it will be upgraded to M after all - by this I mean changing the green signs to blue - I believe it's already due to be 120km/h as I asked the NRA. The 'alternative route' problem doesn't exist within ROI, and theoretically isn't their problem.. so I believe they'll change it over to M1, so finally, yes, it will be M1. I'm assuming then that the A1 will be upgraded to A1(M) as opposed to M1 (due to part of it overtaking the old road). However, to help compensate for the local traffic, they're putting a third lane on each side on the approach to Newry - although this may be 'seperate' from the other two, I don't think it is though.

What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic.

Though maybe their rollout plan involves building missing links such as this.

Victor · 10-07-2007 12:08am

spacetweek wrote:

What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic.

Is there an alternative minor road under the "Flurry River" label?

ardmacha · 10-07-2007 12:37am

Last time I drove there the old road had a limited overlap with the new one. Google maps suggests that there is a continuous route alongside the new road, so making it motorway wouldn't involve too much work.

Mayo Exile · 11-07-2007 12:15pm

Originally posted by spacetweek:
What about the section between Feede Cross and Flurry Bridge? That's on our side and it'll need a parallel 2-laner to take local traffic. Though maybe their rollout plan involves building missing links such as this.
Originally posted by Victor: Is there an alternative minor road under the "Flurry River" label?

There is a minor road on the east of the dual carriageway going from the R174 Ravensdale road north towards the Flurry Bridge junction.

However the old N1 seems to be gone between Feede and Flurry Bridge. If going north up the old Dundalk-Newry Road, now the R132 to Ravensdale, towards the end of that road you come to a roundabout at Feede. What was the 1st exit is now the off ramp coming off the DC to access the R174 (accessed by 2nd exit), and also to access what is now the R132. If you want to get on to the DC again, about 100 yds south of the roundabout there is a new bridge over the DC, and on the far (west) side, there is a ramp there to gain access to the northbound DC.

Further south on the R132 near Thistle Cross (below the turnoff for Ravensdale village) there is another bridge over the DC which allows you to gain access to a minor road going north allowing access to the above mentioned ramp at Feede to access the northbound DC.

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 12:41pm

Is the minor road acceptable as an alternative route given that the vast majority of traffic can use the new road? Does the "alternative route" have to be a 7 metre carriageway with hard shoulders like most of the old N1?

Mayo Exile · 11-07-2007 12:54pm

Originally posted by Ardmacha: Is the minor road acceptable as an alternative route given that the vast majority of traffic can use the new road? Does the "alternative route" have to be a 7 metre carriageway with hard shoulders like most of the old N1?

Doesn't seem so in this case. Don't forget north of Feede Cross you are entering the rather narrow confines of the Ravensdale Valley, which restricts the possibilities of an adequate alternative route. Another proposed route for this entire scheme had it following the railway line west of the Feede and Jonesborough hills which would have led to the current N1 being a viable alternative route.

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 12:58pm

nother proposed route for this entire scheme had it following the railway line west of the Feede and Jonesborough hills which would have led to the current N1 being a viable alternative route.

This route would have been ideal, but wasn't popular with the NI authorities, as much more of it was in their patch, and business interests in the Carrickdale hotel and around.

But if there are to HQDCs declared motorways what (if any) is the definition of an alternative route, can it be a little longer, does it have to of a certain standard and so on.

Skyhater · 11-07-2007 1:13pm

ardmacha wrote:

But if there are to HQDCs declared motorways what (if any) is the definition of an alternative route, can it be a little longer, does it have to of a certain standard and so on.

Good Question..... In theory, ever DC has some type of an alternative rout!!!

I'd imagine the alternative rout should be of "N" or "R" class road, and not add more then say 25% to the Journey Distance????? (That would be my spec, for what it's worth)

Having said that.... what's the alternative rout for the M50:
- Some "R" roads, country lanes and streets???
- Maybe Doubling the journey time (....when the M50 is moving......Halving it when it's not)

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 2:30pm

I'd imagine the alternative rout should be of "N" or "R" class road,

The only traffic not allowed to use motorways is tractors and the like. Why would these need a N class road.

Now in the Dundalk Newry case the old road exists for 90% of the way, so there is a case for linking those sections with a road of decent quality.

And before someone mentions L drivers, these are learning to drive and any part of the road network can be used for such instruction, there is no particular need or right for them to use a particular stretch.

Skyhater · 11-07-2007 4:00pm

ardmacha wrote:

The only traffic not allowed to use motorways is tractors and the like. Why would these need a N class road.

Now in the Dundalk Newry case the old road exists for 90% of the way, so there is a case for linking those sections with a road of decent quality.

And before someone mentions L drivers, these are learning to drive and any part of the road network can be used for such instruction, there is no particular need or right for them to use a particular stretch.

Alternative routes are not just for those who "are not allowed" to drive on motorways, they are also for people who don't feel comfortable driving on them!! There are many old people, etc who are not comfortable driving on motorways.

(...now I don't want a "...they shouldn't be on the road" comment.....It's a genuine concern for some people who are perfectly good drivers)

Simple fact is that they could have provided an alternative rout parallel to the new DC, however they choose not to (For Financial reasons, etc).
We'll just have to live with this stretch of road having "N" status.
And I also think it should have a 100km/h limit!!!! Only "M" roads should have 120km/h limits.

ardmacha · 11-07-2007 4:05pm

Alternative routes are not just for those who "are not allowed" to drive on motorways, they are also for people who don't feel comfortable driving on them!! There are many old people, etc who are not comfortable driving on motorways.

So these people will be perfectly happy to drive on the new road if it called the N1, but won't want to drive on it if it is the M1!

And I also think it should have a 100km/h limit!!!! Only "M" roads should have 120km/h limits.

Roads should have speed limits appropriate to their design, not their label.

Skyhater · 11-07-2007 4:13pm

ardmacha wrote:

So these people will be perfectly happy to drive on the new road if it called the N1, but won't want to drive on it if it is the M1!

100km/h speed limit vs. 120km/h speed limit!!!!
Although speed limits mean nothing in this country (....especially for cars with Yellow Number Plates!!!)

Roads should have speed limits appropriate to their design, not their label.

NO, the roads should have a classification "M", "N", "R" or "L" depending on their design (....and certain other constraints) ...... Then the speed limit should come from that!!! (In most cases)

Victor · 12-07-2007 10:04am

Skyhater wrote:

Having said that.... what's the alternative rout for the M50:

The difference is the M50 is a completely new route, with no previous incarnation being destroyed.

Exceptions being:
N50 at Firhouse - replaced with bridge at Spawell Roundabout.
Turnapin Lane at Clonshaugh - little used country lane.

Mayo Exile · 12-07-2007 3:33pm

Received email from the Roads and Traffic section of Louth County Council today. They are still hoping for an early August opening of the full scheme, probably August 2nd. This means it should be complete for the bank holiday weekend.

Mayo Exile · 16-07-2007 9:04am

Originally posted by Mayo Exile: Received email from the Roads and Traffic section of Louth County Council today. They are still hoping for an early August opening of the full scheme, probably August 2nd. This means it should be complete for the bank holiday weekend.

Ditto as well from the NRA. They say official opening date is August 2nd.

Mayo Exile · 20-07-2007 1:44pm

Same info from the Roads Service of Northern Ireland too. 2nd August will be the opening date for the whole scheme. So those doubts that the NI section of the scheme was behind the Southern section appear not to be true.

Zoney · 20-07-2007 3:01pm

Skyhater wrote:

NO, the roads should have a classification "M", "N", "R" or "L" depending on their design (....and certain other constraints) ...... Then the speed limit should come from that!!! (In most cases)

M is the only classification that is (and should be) dependant on design.

The other classifications (N and R specifically) are applied to routes of strategic importance, without reference to the existing road design. That's as should be - it is necessary to have a primary N road between Limerick and Cork despite part of the route currently being winding country lane. Even with upgraded/new road along N/R roads, design will vary dependant on things like traffic volumes, need for junctions, local conditions, etc.

Speed limits should be based on road design, not classification. Thus certain classes of route, because they need to have a decent speed limit, should be of a minimum design quality. The problem is that if we did this, it would all the more show up for example the inadequate stretches of N road in the country - as they would now not only be shoddy roads, but have a low speed limit too! For safety I would argue myself for putting low speed limits on sub-standard parts of N roads regardless - but politically it's not going to happen, at least until far more of the network is upgraded than just the "inter-urbans".

In summary, in an ideal state of affairs, all N and R roads would be upgraded to a minimum standard reflecting their status. Thus they could legitimately have decent speed limits, based on the road design rather than classification.

Mayo Exile · 25-07-2007 8:54am

Originally posted by Murphaph: No it's not. The bypass is to be bypassed completely by a new HQDC (possible motorway) much to the west of the existing road. They will (I believe) leave the Cloghogue Roundabout in situ pretty much unaltered until the new bypass is built in 3 or so years!

Not all the way it seems. It appears roughly to follow the current bypass from the Cloghogue roundabout out to the Camlough Road junction, then go left of the current road all the way to the Sheepbridge junction. See preferred route leaflet:

http://roadimprovements.roadsni.gov.uk/publicannouncementleaflet.pdf

Confirmed by Roads Service NI here:

http://roadimprovements.roadsni.gov.uk/index/schemes/a1_beech_hill_to_cloghogue-newry.htm

MDTyKe · 25-07-2007 11:49am

Its official speed limit is... 120. Check the bye-laws on Louth Coco. However, the bye-laws dont come in until Aug 17. So in theory, its 100 for 2 weeks.. I doubt they'll put up/take down/put up signs though?

Matt

Mayo Exile · 25-07-2007 12:34pm

Originally posted by MDTyKe: Its official speed limit is... 120. Check the bye-laws on Louth Coco.

Here it is. Also says Aug 15th, not the 17th. Can't see them enforcing a lower limit for 13 days from the opening date of the 2nd.

http://www.louthcoco.ie/downloads/Byelaws/NationalRoadsSpecialSpeedLimitByeLaws2007.pdf

M1 to Newry - completion date?

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