Deportation - Why don't the courts use it.

nesf · 03-05-2007 07:12PM

Snickers Man wrote:

Like those guys really give the impression they're concerned about the difference.

I'm sure some of them do. Some don't but it's very hard to tell the difference. Personally I'd agree with deportation for any immigrant committing <insert list of serious criminal offences here> but I've no problems with people who immigrate here as a whole.

The problem is defining that list. I don't want to see someone getting kicked out of the country for minor incidents (being drunk and doing something stupid essentially).

stepbar · 03-05-2007 07:26PM

Love2love wrote:

I was in a queue at the Ulster Bank on O'Connell Street last week and there was a Roma Gypsy in front of me. He has 2 bank cards and withdrew a wad of 50's with the 2 cards and left the bank link empty! So I walked up a little bit to the next one and there was the same guy doing the same thing - left that one empty too! Now if that was legit, why wouldn't he just go into the bank to withdraw the money instead of leaving every bank link in O'Connell Steet empty?????

Thats because they were probably skimming the ATM......

Lazare · 03-05-2007 07:27PM

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"

And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"

I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

Can you please enlighten us with tales of your pleasant dealings with these people.

If you can tell me you've seen or heard of even one of them contributing to this society, I will take back my comment.

I also don't buy this 'see the other side' crap, there are plenty of honest opportunities for these people. You think it's ok for a 13 year old to arrive here and immediately start ripping us off, just because she comes from a life of hardship?

Cop on man.

Snickers Man · 03-05-2007 11:52PM

Lazare wrote:

Can you please enlighten us with tales of your pleasant dealings with these people.

If you can tell me you've seen or heard of even one of them contributing to this society, I will take back my comment.

I also don't buy this 'see the other side' crap, there are plenty of honest opportunities for these people. You think it's ok for a 13 year old to arrive here and immediately start ripping us off, just because she comes from a life of hardship?

Cop on man.

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.

Somebody breaks the law? Fine them, jail them, give them community service whatever.

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Cop on man, you say?

Grow a brain.

DonJose · 04-05-2007 12:17AM

Snickers Man wrote:

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Man, you must be sh!tting halos. What is this girls livelihood, snatching €200 ago from people using ATM machines. €200 is a lot of money for some people, weeks groceries, next weeks rent.

How many times has this girl been charged, 9 times in 3 months. Shes 13 years old, how many more victims would you need to see before you come to your senses. This one is a no hoper, more than anything her parents are closeby everytime she snatches somebodies money. I for one brought this up the Greens candidate who knocked on my door tonight. I'll bring it up again and again. If they want to come and work, fair play, let them all stay. If they want to come here and steal, send the scum back.

Love2love · 04-05-2007 09:38AM

DonJose wrote:

If they want to come and work, fair play, let them all stay. If they want to come here and steal, send the scum back.

I agree.

Wasnt there a big article a year or so ago in a newspaper about how they only come here to steal and con money. They have no intention of working. I'm not saying ALL of them are like that but the one's who clearly are, should be deported. If it was my little brother who done this, would the sentence be so lenient? I think that the government are so afraid to be called racist that they are forgetting their responsibility to the nationals.

AlmightyCushion · 04-05-2007 09:53AM

Snickers Man wrote:

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.

Somebody breaks the law? Fine them, jail them, give them community service whatever.

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Cop on man, you say?

Grow a brain.

We're not saying that if a foreigner takes a piss down an alleyway some Saturday night when they've had one too many that they should be kicked out of the country. That would be ridiculous. We are on about serious crimes or a multitude of less serious crimes e.g. that thirteen year old girl who's been caught stealing God knows how many times. Why should we have criminals here that tie up our judiciary system and cost us money. We have enough scumbags in this country who do that already and if I had my way we would deport them too.

Slow Motion · 04-05-2007 10:46AM

Free Market economy - If you want to come in and contribute to the society welcome and let me hold the door for you. If you want to come in and be a burden on the taxpayer, rip people off and beg on the streets because you couldn't be ar$ed to work, FCUK OFF and do it somewhere else !
Am I a racist ?

muppetkiller · 04-05-2007 10:57AM

I think Snickers Man needs a reality check. Maybe we should send this 13yo up to him while he's at the pass machine.:D

HelterSkelter · 04-05-2007 11:00AM

OP, she has been charged, not convicted. Thankfully we live in a country where you are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure she will be deported or locked up if she is proved guilty of all those charges.

nikolaitr · 04-05-2007 11:17AM

Snickers Man wrote:

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.
QUOTE]

I can't believe that some people are so afraid of being called racists that they would sooner defend criminals.

I was born in Russia, and know of how bad gypsies are. Ask most people in Continental Europe,even the more "western" countries like France and Spain where gypsies are more established than Ireland, and they will tell you that they bring nothing but trouble. Whenever I met one they were involved in some sort of illegal activity.

What always amazes me is that defenders of Ireland Immigrants are quicker to jump to the defense of criminals than immigrants being abused at work.

DonJose · 04-05-2007 01:46PM

HelterSkelter wrote:

OP, she has been charged, not convicted. Thankfully we live in a country where you are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure she will be deported or locked up if she is proved guilty of all those charges.

Shes been charged 9 times with the same offence. I'd be happy to see her remanded in custody until the charges come to court, there have been enough victims already. Last night I emailed the DOJ immigration department and highlighted this case. Ireland has no immigration controls. Unless self-employed, Romanians and Bulgarians are allowed to stay in Ireland for 3 months. I would like to see this rule enforced.

HelterSkelter · 04-05-2007 02:08PM

DonJose wrote:

Shes been charged 9 times with the same offence. I'd be happy to see her remanded in custody until the charges come to court, there have been enough victims already. Last night I emailed the DOJ immigration department and highlighted this case. Ireland has no immigration controls. Unless self-employed, Romanians and Bulgarians are allowed to stay in Ireland for 3 months. I would like to see this rule enforced.

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

0ubliette · 04-05-2007 02:17PM

HelterSkelter wrote:

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

Dont worry, im sure regardless of the outcome, she'll be back on the street with her hand in your pocket in no time. I mean seriously what are they going to do? Give her 10 -20 in the joy? Slap on the wrist and she'll be free to rob again in no time....the system works.

Degsy · 04-05-2007 02:49PM

HelterSkelter wrote:

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

Yes.There's no smoke without fire.If she was charged with one offence than maybe there's some chance that she didnt do it and its all abig misunderstanding but NINE identical offences?Deport her and her family and save the taxpayer the cost of a trial,not thats he'll show up or anything.

mountainyman · 04-05-2007 02:53PM

Lump wrote:

I think they generally don't send people back to dodgy countries.... Africa, Romania, Iraq, etc etc..... where they will get an unfair trial etc.

John

Romania is in the EU. It can't be that dodgy.

[EDIT] She has not been convicted, how can any punishment be imposed?[/EDIT]

Post the question in legal affairs.

MM

skyhighflyer · 04-05-2007 03:24PM

KTRIC wrote:

Did you even read my post or do you even know what "QFT" means ?

Doesn't it mean "Quoted for the Truth"? Hence, I was agreeing with your post.

skyhighflyer · 04-05-2007 03:46PM

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"

And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"

I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

I'd be the "twunt" to whom you're referring in the latter part of your post. I think it would be difficult to find a "stateless" immigrant unless the country from whence they came suddenly ceased to exist as soon as they left it.

I've worked with people from all over Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. With a few exceptions, I've found them to be hardworking friendly people out to make a few quid, just the same as the majority of Irish people I've worked with. Believe me, my attitude to Roma gypsies is mild in comparison with those expressed by the people from Eastern Europe with whom I worked.

I base my opinion of people or groups of people on the experiences I've had with them. Nothing more, nothing less. If you'd seen the girl who had just started where I worked (not from Ireland as it happened) crying over the fact that one of these Roma "people" had passed off two fake Eur50 notes at her till and having to explain the difference to the manager, then you might understand where I'm coming from. And of course, we had Irish people who shoplifted, scammed cards and passed on forged notes, but nowhere on the same scale (relatively speaking).

As for your ever so right-on comment "The Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly cubs", what the hell do you know about me? I could be 18 or 80, and in any case it wouldn't affect the validity of my opinion.

And finally, I stand by what I said in my earlier post. I'd sooner stop for a cat that I hit in my car than a Roma gypsy. And I don't even like cats.

Have a great day

patrickolee · 04-05-2007 05:01PM

Or Africa as a country!

billy the squid · 04-05-2007 05:35PM

0ubliette wrote:

Dont worry, im sure regardless of the outcome, she'll be back on the street with her hand in your pocket in no time. I mean seriously what are they going to do? Give her 10 -20 in the joy? Slap on the wrist and she'll be free to rob again in no time....the system works.

I don't think you read his post properly, particularly this bit

she was charged, not convicted.

By stating that "she will have your hand in your pocket" is already assuming, before she has been convicted, that she is guilty, before the case has even been heard in court.

Your very statement is prejudicial. That is why statements such as yours have resulted in more high profile cases collapsing.

If she is found guilty of these charges, by all means, boot her back to where ever it is she came from, But, not until she has been found guilty first.

DonJose · 12-06-2007 02:38AM

Is this a family business???

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFCWQLKFAU&rss=rss1

Demonique · 01-07-2007 02:00AM

stepbar wrote:

O'Connell St is getting to be a bit of a warzone lately. There was a young girl caught in my branch last month trying to swipe money out of customers hands. Money comes out of ATM and.. *Yoink*. Maybe she was the same one.

If she tried that with me, I grab her and give her a good kick up the arse.

I'm sick of bloody gypsies begging at ATM machines trying to guilt me into giving them cash particularly when the lazy sows are receiving money off the government.

It's illegal for people under the age of 16 to beg so I you see them call the gardai on their poxy arses. Also, begging with children is classed as procuring a child to beg which is also illegal.

The native Irish beggars have started up with the sit beside ATM gig and once a guy came inside a bank and started begging at the ATMs.

Whenever, I see someone begging at an ATM machine on Grafton Street I call Pearse Street garda station. They can't arrest them anymore because the f**king decided begging wasn't an illegal activity, but they can move them on

Chakar · 01-07-2007 02:27AM

Because we have a due process under our laws.

Tha Gopher · 01-07-2007 02:55AM

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"

And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"

I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

I love the smell of boards hypocracy in the morning.

Tell me, would you rent a house to them? Of course not- these forums are full of a small hardcore of armchair two faced pundits. I think i read somewhere an EU national can only be barred from the country if they are setenced to more than 3 years in prison. Just because the likes of England dpont take action to remove Irish criminals (cue the madness of those campsites around London) it doesnt mean we need to be similiarly thick about it.

SimpleSam06 · 01-07-2007 11:37AM

See, unlike most people here I choose to take a more objective, scientific rational approach to the gypsy question.

Research has turned up the fact that culturally, they consider a woman's menstrual flow to be "unclean" or "diseased", and so, with that in mind, we've come up with something a little better than a cling film wrapped maxi-pad onna stick to shake at them.

We at SamCorp are delighted to announce our latest in a range of personal protectants, Gypp-Off (tm)!! No more need you fear shrinkage or ATM robbage, and daylight beggage will be a thing of the past!

Our aerosolised aftermarket environmentally friendly byproduct tampax sprays come in a handy pocket or keyring sized options, ideal for keeping the gypsy of your choice...

...at bay!!

Capt'n Midnight · 01-07-2007 01:03PM

skywalker wrote:

Can you really class Romania as that dodgy a country? Its just joined the EU hasnt it?

oh boy..

If you have been following any of these debates you'd have realised that most people distinguish between Romanian and Roma. It's like the difference between Irish people in the UK and Irish Travellers in the UK. In both cases the lack of integration means an us and them view, secretly you envy the fact that they aren't wage slaves and can get away with stuff you'd like to. But you don't envy their life expectancy though.

SimpleSam06 · 01-07-2007 01:11PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

secretly you envy the fact that they aren't wage slaves and can get away with stuff you'd like to.

Yes, and being burdened with big decisions like "will I crap under this rock, or that rock today"...

Reku · 02-07-2007 01:22PM

The Scientist wrote:

Agree strongly though. Any immigrant that recieves a criminal conviction within 12 months of being here should be put on the first plane home.
Same applies for the Irish emmigrants.

Agree completely. Also feel that just as we'd like to be rid of all illegal immigrants we should make an effort to get all our own off-the-books workers abroad sent home.
But then when have people ever stuck to a logical system when they could get ahead by ignoring it...

Von Manstein · 02-07-2007 01:50PM

Predictibly, it enfuriates me to hear this. I myself am living abroad at the moment and glad of it. Dreading going back to Ireland tbh. As for deporting that girl, It's not as easy as that tbh. Romania is now an EU country and so as far I'd imagine, you can't just deport EU citizens.

And as someone already pointed out, shipping her back to Romania wouldn't be an actual punishment. She'd be on a plane back to Ireland in no time at all. And for all of you who have ever went into one of the big EU countries (say Germany) you'd know how they have quick police checks on a computer the second you get off the plane. Unlike in Irealnd, where you simply walk in. Half the time the guards aren't even in the cubicles in Dublin airport. As for the other half of the time, they don't even look at ppls passports. I've only ever seen them check passports once. And that was just looking at my name and pic. Let alone type my name in the Garda system computer (to see if I'd been deported say). I say send her to jail first in Ireland and then deport her

But the guards - the lazy force that they are - have to get more professional first! I remember Micheal Macdowell saying something regarding this a few years back.

And as for the rest of you, I suggest emigrating to a nice country like Germany. Munich if you can :P

stepbar · 02-07-2007 07:53PM

We had another incident last Friday where a young lad (of no more than 15), tried to steal 500eur out of the hand of a woman, at an ATM outside the branch. Thankfully the security guard was walking outside at the time, spotted him and restrained him until the guards came. But guess what? the guards didnt come for 45 minutes, O'Connell St to Store St is not that far of a journey :rolleyes:

These ones are well clued in. Apparently around 2pm every day there's a shift change in Gardai stations across the city centre. That when they "go a robbin". By the time the guards come, they'll have done a runner. And guess what? I was walking in back from lunch and what time was is? ten past 2 :rolleyes:

Deportation - Why don't the courts use it.

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