Deportation - Why don't the courts use it.

DonJose

Reading the indo online and came across the following story. Why does this crap continue day in, day out without action.

"A 13-YEAR-old girl, facing nine theft charges over an alleged ATM machine scam, has been remanded on continuing bail pending directions from the DPP.

The Romanian girl, who lives in west Dublin, arrived in Ireland just over three months ago and in that time has been the subject of a number of arrests for stealing money from people at ATMs. She had been charged at the Dublin Children's Court with nine counts of theft of €200 from people at ATMs in Dublin city centre.

These alleged offences happened at bank machines on O'Connell Street, Grafton Street and at Stephen's Green, between February 20 and March 10 last.

On April 3 last the girl had been further charged with two more offences, for stealing €200 from a person on O'Connell Street, on February 14 last, and the same amount from another at Grafton Street, on March 9 last. Judge Bryan Smyth remanded her on bail until June 12. The bail has strict conditions stating that she must not loiter near any ATM, and that she must obey a curfew between 8pm and 8am daily."
http://www.unison.ie/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1822891&issue_id=15575

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Lump

I think they generally don't send people back to dodgy countries.... Africa, Romania, Iraq, etc etc..... where they will get an unfair trial etc.

John

burnedfaceman

how would deporting her have any bearing on her getting a fair trial for a crime commited in Ireland?

DonJose

I would class this case as extreme. She is in the country 3 months, has 9 charges against her. We all know the Gardai don't have 100% detection rates, so how many times has she gotten away with it. Where are her parents. Why the hell isn't she in school.

de5p0i1er

The Scientist wrote:

Here we go....
*looks for immigrant bashing club

Agree strongly though. Any immigrant that recieves a criminal conviction within 12 months of being here should be put on the first plane home.
Same applies for the Irish emmigrants.

I'm with you 100% on this one get the criminals out and let the immigrants who want to make a new life for themselfs live here without been linked to these scumbags.

Lazare

I was only thinking about this today after reading another thread about Romany gypsies pickpocketing on Camden St. The Guards actually caught this scumbag red handed and let him go!

This girl landed here three months ago and has already been up in court numerous times, why is she not fcuked out? This country is a fcuking joke!

The sad thing is, these filthy excuses for humans are giving good Romanian people (of which there are plenty here) a really bad rep.

I don't think they should be deported though, I think they should be lined up against a wall and shot.

These people really infuriate me, don't reply here saying, 'ah sure they come from really tough backrounds, give them a break'. BOLL0X. Plenty of good natured, honest Romanians have come here and have blended in and contributed to this society.

stepbar

DonJose wrote:

Reading the indo online and came across the following story. Why does this crap continue day in, day out without action.

"A 13-YEAR-old girl, facing nine theft charges over an alleged ATM machine scam, has been remanded on continuing bail pending directions from the DPP.

The Romanian girl, who lives in west Dublin, arrived in Ireland just over three months ago and in that time has been the subject of a number of arrests for stealing money from people at ATMs. She had been charged at the Dublin Children's Court with nine counts of theft of €200 from people at ATMs in Dublin city centre.

These alleged offences happened at bank machines on O'Connell Street, Grafton Street and at Stephen's Green, between February 20 and March 10 last.

On April 3 last the girl had been further charged with two more offences, for stealing €200 from a person on O'Connell Street, on February 14 last, and the same amount from another at Grafton Street, on March 9 last. Judge Bryan Smyth remanded her on bail until June 12. The bail has strict conditions stating that she must not loiter near any ATM, and that she must obey a curfew between 8pm and 8am daily."
http://www.unison.ie/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1822891&issue_id=15575

O'Connell St is getting to be a bit of a warzone lately. There was a young girl caught in my branch last month trying to swipe money out of customers hands. Money comes out of ATM and.. *Yoink*. Maybe she was the same one.

mikemac

Don't people from Romania have to come here as self-employed?
Is begging and stealing a profession now?

It's too late now, this should have been stopped at the airports and ports before it even happened. Only people with a trade or useful skill should be allowed in-a work permit system.
These people are here to stay and giving decent Romanians a bad name. Residents against Racism will see to it that they stay:mad:

This girl won't change and if she is here in 5 years she'll be doing the same. What are the odds her entire family are doing similar.

Rudolph Claus

This country seems to love criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts in general, you get away with anything including murder in this country.

KTRIC

Lads and Ladies, these f*ckers are not Romainians, they are Roma Gypsies, there's a big bloody difference.

Romainians look a lot like Irish people and have similar colouring, these scum are darker and have been trying to pass themselves off as Romainians here for years. I'm really surprised that this has gone on for so long.

I was going to compair the Roma to Irish Travellers but there is absolutly no comparison, the Roma are the lowest of the low. I personally have more respect for rats than them.

biko

Ach, come on - she's only 13. She must have come with parents though, can action against them be taken?

For adults I think deportation should be on the map, for violent crimes and such that gives a 3+ years gaol sentence.

mogsy

she may be 13 but is still not contributing anything to irish society, roma gypsies are con artists and criminals. fact.

i have never heard anyone say a good word about roma gypsies, has anyone any experience of working with them(in a noncriminal capacity) or do they work here at all apart from begging and stealing?

they are the scourge of europe and bring crime with them wherever they go, i feel zero tolerance should be shown with the roma gypsies and should be thrown out of country once crimes are committed and repatriated.

does anyone think the pc do gooders at residents against racism are an unfair representation of peoples views on this issue as whenever a deportation or the like occurs media bias is incredible with residents against racism calling deportations as racism when in fact they are the law of the land

mloc

I'm always a little conflicted on immigrant issues, as I have good friends who are shining examples of how immigrants can both help our country and those coming to it.

However, in a way, it is people like this girl who can tarnish the image of those who work hard here for a better life. For those reasons, I think deportation should be a valid punishment for recent immigrants who commit crimes.

AlmightyCushion

I think these people should be deported. As said before they give the hard working immigrants who are more or less upstanding members of society a very bad name which causes hostility towards these decent people. Especially for crimes that warrent jail time. These people cause the irish tax payer a fortune. It should be put up with no longer. Give them the boot.

skyhighflyer

KTRIC wrote:

Lads and Ladies, these f*ckers are not Romainians, they are Roma Gypsies, there's a big bloody difference.

Romainians look a lot like Irish people and have similar colouring, these scum are darker and have been trying to pass themselves off as Romainians here for years. I'm really surprised that this has gone on for so long.

I was going to compair the Roma to Irish Travellers but there is absolutly no comparison, the Roma are the lowest of the low. I personally have more respect for rats than them.

QFT. I'd stop quicker if I hit a cat on the road in my car than one of those scum. And if that makes me racist, so be it.

When I worked in a shop, the Polish and Romanian lads I worked with would always be the first to spot the Romas when they came into the shop. Every time they came in there would be trouble either by getting the kids to shoplift, passing off forged notes or trying to scam our ATM or other customers.

KTRIC

skyhighflyer wrote:

QFT. I'd stop quicker if I hit a cat on the road in my car than one of those scum. And if that makes me racist, so be it.

When I worked in a shop, the Polish and Romanian lads I worked with would always be the first to spot the Romas when they came into the shop. Every time they came in there would be trouble either by getting the kids to shoplift, passing off forged notes or trying to scam our ATM or other customers.

Did you even read my post or do you even know what "QFT" means ?

Pherekydes

The question is: who'd take all of our deportees?

Love2love

I was in a queue at the Ulster Bank on O'Connell Street last week and there was a Roma Gypsy in front of me. He has 2 bank cards and withdrew a wad of 50's with the 2 cards and left the bank link empty! So I walked up a little bit to the next one and there was the same guy doing the same thing - left that one empty too! Now if that was legit, why wouldn't he just go into the bank to withdraw the money instead of leaving every bank link in O'Connell Steet empty?????

skywalker

Lump wrote:

I think they generally don't send people back to dodgy countries.... Africa, Romania, Iraq, etc etc..... where they will get an unfair trial etc.

John

Can you really class Romania as that dodgy a country? Its just joined the EU hasnt it?

seamus

How is sending someone home an adequate punishment?

Jail them, *then* send them home.

The only problem being that prison is a free hotel, and our stupid laws will probably allow someone to accrue "residency" time in jail so that they can claim citizenship when released.

Dyr

Screw deportation, It's election time, we could probably demand decapitation and get it

Overheal

But I don't wanna be decapitated!

I'd go for the X convitions during the first X months of residence though.

Considering I've been here 7 years on a clean sheet

digitally-yours

Overheal wrote:

But I don't wanna be decapitated!

I'd go for the X convitions during the first X months of residence though.

Considering I've been here 7 years on a clean sheet

I am here 6 Years too No criminal record.


On the other note regarding the thread

the way it works is "If to dont get rewarded for doing good then its not good"

gyppo

Surely some form of probationary period could be applied - keep the nose clean for 12 months from the date of entry, otherwise first plane back to where they came from.

Steal a pair of knickers from Dunne's - bye, bye, we don't want you here. You had your chance, you blew it.

It would be a damn sight less expensive to the state than having to go through offering legal aid, and the cost of imprisonment where appropriate.

Snickers Man

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"


And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"


I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

burnedfaceman

get off your moral pedestal snickers man, this thread involves the argument for deporting immigrants involved in crime not deporting all immigrants

arybvtcw0eolkf

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"


And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"


I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

Oh, loike righish Roderick. Soooo totally un-PC loike.

Pherekydes

burnedfaceman wrote:

get off your moral pedestal snickers man, this thread involves the argument for deporting immigrants involved in crime not deporting all immigrants

And not deporting all criminals, either.

Snickers Man

burnedfaceman wrote:

get off your moral pedestal snickers man, this thread involves the argument for deporting immigrants involved in crime not deporting all immigrants

Like those guys really give the impression they're concerned about the difference.

burnedfaceman

de5p0i1er wrote:

I'm with you 100% on this one get the criminals out and let the immigrants who want to make a new life for themselfs live here without been linked to these scumbags.

yes i think they made a clear distinction here would you not agree??

or how about here

quote sky high flyer

When I worked in a shop, the Polish and Romanian lads I worked with would always be the first to spot the Romas when they came into the shop. Every time they came in there would be trouble either by getting the kids to shoplift, passing off forged notes or trying to scam our ATM or other customers.

or here

quote almighty cushion

I think these people should be deported. As said before they give the hard working immigrants who are more or less upstanding members of society a very bad name which causes hostility towards these decent people

nesf

Snickers Man wrote:

Like those guys really give the impression they're concerned about the difference.

I'm sure some of them do. Some don't but it's very hard to tell the difference. Personally I'd agree with deportation for any immigrant committing <insert list of serious criminal offences here> but I've no problems with people who immigrate here as a whole.

The problem is defining that list. I don't want to see someone getting kicked out of the country for minor incidents (being drunk and doing something stupid essentially).

stepbar

Love2love wrote:

I was in a queue at the Ulster Bank on O'Connell Street last week and there was a Roma Gypsy in front of me. He has 2 bank cards and withdrew a wad of 50's with the 2 cards and left the bank link empty! So I walked up a little bit to the next one and there was the same guy doing the same thing - left that one empty too! Now if that was legit, why wouldn't he just go into the bank to withdraw the money instead of leaving every bank link in O'Connell Steet empty?????

Thats because they were probably skimming the ATM......

Lazare

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"


And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"


I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

Can you please enlighten us with tales of your pleasant dealings with these people.

If you can tell me you've seen or heard of even one of them contributing to this society, I will take back my comment.

I also don't buy this 'see the other side' crap, there are plenty of honest opportunities for these people. You think it's ok for a 13 year old to arrive here and immediately start ripping us off, just because she comes from a life of hardship?

Cop on man.

Snickers Man

Lazare wrote:

Can you please enlighten us with tales of your pleasant dealings with these people.

If you can tell me you've seen or heard of even one of them contributing to this society, I will take back my comment.

I also don't buy this 'see the other side' crap, there are plenty of honest opportunities for these people. You think it's ok for a 13 year old to arrive here and immediately start ripping us off, just because she comes from a life of hardship?

Cop on man.

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.

Somebody breaks the law? Fine them, jail them, give them community service whatever.

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Cop on man, you say?

Grow a brain.

DonJose

Snickers Man wrote:

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Man, you must be sh!tting halos. What is this girls livelihood, snatching €200 ago from people using ATM machines. €200 is a lot of money for some people, weeks groceries, next weeks rent.

How many times has this girl been charged, 9 times in 3 months. Shes 13 years old, how many more victims would you need to see before you come to your senses. This one is a no hoper, more than anything her parents are closeby everytime she snatches somebodies money. I for one brought this up the Greens candidate who knocked on my door tonight. I'll bring it up again and again. If they want to come and work, fair play, let them all stay. If they want to come here and steal, send the scum back.

Love2love

DonJose wrote:

If they want to come and work, fair play, let them all stay. If they want to come here and steal, send the scum back.

I agree.

Wasnt there a big article a year or so ago in a newspaper about how they only come here to steal and con money. They have no intention of working. I'm not saying ALL of them are like that but the one's who clearly are, should be deported. If it was my little brother who done this, would the sentence be so lenient? I think that the government are so afraid to be called racist that they are forgetting their responsibility to the nationals.

AlmightyCushion

Snickers Man wrote:

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.

Somebody breaks the law? Fine them, jail them, give them community service whatever.

Somebody originally from overseas breaks the law? Deport them, deprive them of their livelihood, their family, their friends, their houses if they own them. Where's the justice in that?

Cop on man, you say?

Grow a brain.

We're not saying that if a foreigner takes a piss down an alleyway some Saturday night when they've had one too many that they should be kicked out of the country. That would be ridiculous. We are on about serious crimes or a multitude of less serious crimes e.g. that thirteen year old girl who's been caught stealing God knows how many times. Why should we have criminals here that tie up our judiciary system and cost us money. We have enough scumbags in this country who do that already and if I had my way we would deport them too.

Slow Motion

Free Market economy - If you want to come in and contribute to the society welcome and let me hold the door for you. If you want to come in and be a burden on the taxpayer, rip people off and beg on the streets because you couldn't be ar$ed to work, FCUK OFF and do it somewhere else !
Am I a racist ?

muppetkiller

I think Snickers Man needs a reality check. Maybe we should send this 13yo up to him while he's at the pass machine.:D

HelterSkelter

OP, she has been charged, not convicted. Thankfully we live in a country where you are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure she will be deported or locked up if she is proved guilty of all those charges.

nikolaitr

Snickers Man wrote:

All I will say is that I was an emigrant myself for years and came across this attitude before. The people who held it tended to be unthinking, self-righteous scum and I despised them for it. I despise people of my own nationality for it even more.
QUOTE]

I can't believe that some people are so afraid of being called racists that they would sooner defend criminals.

I was born in Russia, and know of how bad gypsies are. Ask most people in Continental Europe,even the more "western" countries like France and Spain where gypsies are more established than Ireland, and they will tell you that they bring nothing but trouble. Whenever I met one they were involved in some sort of illegal activity.



What always amazes me is that defenders of Ireland Immigrants are quicker to jump to the defense of criminals than immigrants being abused at work.

DonJose

HelterSkelter wrote:

OP, she has been charged, not convicted. Thankfully we live in a country where you are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'm sure she will be deported or locked up if she is proved guilty of all those charges.

Shes been charged 9 times with the same offence. I'd be happy to see her remanded in custody until the charges come to court, there have been enough victims already. Last night I emailed the DOJ immigration department and highlighted this case. Ireland has no immigration controls. Unless self-employed, Romanians and Bulgarians are allowed to stay in Ireland for 3 months. I would like to see this rule enforced.

HelterSkelter

DonJose wrote:

Shes been charged 9 times with the same offence. I'd be happy to see her remanded in custody until the charges come to court, there have been enough victims already. Last night I emailed the DOJ immigration department and highlighted this case. Ireland has no immigration controls. Unless self-employed, Romanians and Bulgarians are allowed to stay in Ireland for 3 months. I would like to see this rule enforced.

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

0ubliette

HelterSkelter wrote:

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

Dont worry, im sure regardless of the outcome, she'll be back on the street with her hand in your pocket in no time. I mean seriously what are they going to do? Give her 10 -20 in the joy? Slap on the wrist and she'll be free to rob again in no time....the system works.

Degsy

HelterSkelter wrote:

I'm not sticking up for her, but she was charged, not convicted. Many people are charged and subsequently released, or proved innocent in court. You can't punish her until a court finds her guilty. Do you suggest we deport her before any of the cases are held in court?

Yes.There's no smoke without fire.If she was charged with one offence than maybe there's some chance that she didnt do it and its all abig misunderstanding but NINE identical offences?Deport her and her family and save the taxpayer the cost of a trial,not thats he'll show up or anything.

mountainyman

Lump wrote:

I think they generally don't send people back to dodgy countries.... Africa, Romania, Iraq, etc etc..... where they will get an unfair trial etc.

John

Romania is in the EU. It can't be that dodgy.

[EDIT] She has not been convicted, how can any punishment be imposed?[/EDIT]

Post the question in legal affairs.

MM

skyhighflyer

KTRIC wrote:

Did you even read my post or do you even know what "QFT" means ?

Doesn't it mean "Quoted for the Truth"? Hence, I was agreeing with your post.

skyhighflyer

Snickers Man wrote:

My God the Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly little cubs, hasn't it?

"Filthy excuses for humans"

"criminals and scumbags and knackery skangers cnuts"

"****ers"

"Scum"

"con artists"


And as for the twunt who said he'd stop quicker if his car hit a cat in the road than "one of these scum"


I think you should all be stripped of your Irish citizenship and sent off to be genuine stateless immigrants somewhere else. the you'd see the other side.

I'd be the "twunt" to whom you're referring in the latter part of your post. I think it would be difficult to find a "stateless" immigrant unless the country from whence they came suddenly ceased to exist as soon as they left it.

I've worked with people from all over Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. With a few exceptions, I've found them to be hardworking friendly people out to make a few quid, just the same as the majority of Irish people I've worked with. Believe me, my attitude to Roma gypsies is mild in comparison with those expressed by the people from Eastern Europe with whom I worked.

I base my opinion of people or groups of people on the experiences I've had with them. Nothing more, nothing less. If you'd seen the girl who had just started where I worked (not from Ireland as it happened) crying over the fact that one of these Roma "people" had passed off two fake Eur50 notes at her till and having to explain the difference to the manager, then you might understand where I'm coming from. And of course, we had Irish people who shoplifted, scammed cards and passed on forged notes, but nowhere on the same scale (relatively speaking).

As for your ever so right-on comment "The Celtic Tiger has got some seriously ugly cubs", what the hell do you know about me? I could be 18 or 80, and in any case it wouldn't affect the validity of my opinion.

And finally, I stand by what I said in my earlier post. I'd sooner stop for a cat that I hit in my car than a Roma gypsy. And I don't even like cats.

Have a great day

patrickolee

Or Africa as a country!

billy the squid

0ubliette wrote:

Dont worry, im sure regardless of the outcome, she'll be back on the street with her hand in your pocket in no time. I mean seriously what are they going to do? Give her 10 -20 in the joy? Slap on the wrist and she'll be free to rob again in no time....the system works.

I don't think you read his post properly, particularly this bit

she was charged, not convicted.

By stating that "she will have your hand in your pocket" is already assuming, before she has been convicted, that she is guilty, before the case has even been heard in court.

Your very statement is prejudicial. That is why statements such as yours have resulted in more high profile cases collapsing.

If she is found guilty of these charges, by all means, boot her back to where ever it is she came from, But, not until she has been found guilty first.