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Are taser guns legal for members of the public?

  • 11-06-2007 10:55PM
    #1
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭


    Hi,
    On Saturday night I NEARLY got robbed of €200 from an ATM in Galway City Centre - (they distract you after you enter your pin and they take €200 from your account while you are distracted), anyway I had spotted the scam and got the €200 euro she withdrew.

    My question, in the above situtation, is it permitted for me to use/deploy/fire/whatever a taser gun to subdude her until I can get help?

    (She got away, but I got my money this time thankfully!).

    You never think it's going to happen to you, ESPECIALLY Galway!

    Joe
    (now safe in Dublin)


«1

Comments

  • #2
    demanufactured
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭demanufactured


    If anybody tried to do that to me i would ****ing decapitate them.


  • #3
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

    Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.


  • #4
    Thrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    If tasers were available to the public then the scumbags would be first in line to buy them. No more wrestling with their victim or scams to distract them, a quick taze and you would be helpless to stop them robbing you of everything you have.


  • #5
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    KTRIC wrote:
    No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

    Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.


    So, infact if you read between the lines - if i had used a taser in this situtation she might actually get compo from me for using an legal weapon?

    hmmmm.... dammed if u do, fu**d if you don't.
    Joe


  • #6
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    a nuclear attack couldn't distract me at an atm machine.
    From what I know of atm fraud, someone could shout "burning baby in a car" and i'd still complete my transaction before I turned round.

    You have to take the same attitude as if someone distracted you in mid piss after bursting your bladder for five hours. That's the way I see it anyway.

    You won't make the same mistake twice that's for sure.

    My question, in the above situtation, is it permitted for me to use/deploy/fire/whatever a taser gun to subdude her until I can get help?
    what did she do by the way that you needed to subdue her? In fairness I remember being hassled in Dublin City Centre by a particular gypsie of ten years old in a long dress. I found that swearing at her and side swiping kicks whilst I finished what I was doing were enough to hold her off until I could give her my undivided attention.


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  • #7
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    bug wrote:
    a nuclear attack couldn't distract me at an atm machine.
    From what I know of atm fraud, someone could shout "burning baby in a car" and i'd still complete my transaction before I turned round.

    You have to take the same attitude as if someone distracted you in mid piss after bursting your bladder for five hours. That's the way I see it anyway.

    You won't make the same mistake twice that's for sure.


    To be honest, I don't think I made any mistake here - she appeared from no where and pressed the €200 button before I could shout for help, but as soon as i copped on I friggin made the whole of Eyre Sq know what was going on, she still got away but I got my money so I'm happy.

    Anyway, that's not the question - the question is would you use a taser in the same situation and do you feel it's a justified act, legal or otherwise?

    What did she do?
    Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.


  • #8
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    jleavy wrote:
    To be honest, I don't think I made any mistake here - she appeared from no where and pressed the €200 button before I could shout for help, but as soon as i copped on I friggin made the whole of Eyre Sq know what was going on, she still got away but I got my money so I'm happy.

    Anyway, that's not the question - the question is would you use a taser in the same situation and do you feel it's a justified act, legal or otherwise?

    Would you have taken out a taser gun as quick as to give her a punch in the head?

    I don't see your point really. If you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her full stop


  • #9
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    bug wrote:
    Would you have taken out a taser gun as quick as to give her a punch in the head?

    If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

    Joe


  • #10
    DonJose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    jleavy wrote:
    What did she do?
    Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.

    She wasn't a Romanian by any chance was she, another scam going around is the "snatch the money as it comes out and run away". There was a 13 year old Romanian girl, only in Ireland 3 months and was already charged with doing this over a dozen times.


  • #11
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    jleavy wrote:
    If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

    Joe

    Assault or assault with a deadly weapon? Punching her in the face would probably land you in less trouble.


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  • #12
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    DonJose wrote:
    She wasn't a Romanian by any chance was she, another scam going around is the "snatch the money as it comes out and run away". There was a 13 year old Romanian girl, only in Ireland 3 months and was already charged with doing this over a dozen times.


    No, but the were "known" to the Gardi in Mill street when we reported it but they said no crim had been commited as she didn't get anything... They are watching them.


  • #13
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Pepper spray and tasers are illegal here. You can get other things though. Ever heard of this;

    http://www.ioffer.com/i/7377812

    The DYEWitnessTM Criminal Identifier is a powerful, aqua-foam solution that temporarily blocks vision to stop a potential attack and dyes the skin green for up to eight days to assist in the identification, arrest and prosecution of the perpetrator.


  • #14
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    jleavy wrote:
    Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.

    I see what you are trying to say alright, but using a taser gun I assume is illegal as far as I'm aware and the guards although not publicly, would be much more sympathetic of you knocking her out than using an illegal device.

    It's all about reaction unfortunately, and I don't think its fair on me to have to ask me to have to resort to physical violence to resolve these issues (as per my post above, side swiping at a ten year old), I should be safe carrying out these transactions.
    As for a taser I don't think its practical really, regardless of legality... I mean... you'd still have to have it ready to use/produce, and any weapon is all about reaction time.
    As i said if you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her. Although I do take your frustration on board.


  • #15
    DarkJager
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DarkJager


    I had a similar experience about 2 years ago here in Limerick. A romanian woman (about 30 ish) approached me at the ATM and started pointing across the road and shouting at me...I turned around briefly, but saw her hand out of the corner of my eye reaching for the cash. My first reaction was to swing for her...which I did and knocked her out cold. If they want to play by those rules, they should be prepared for what happens when they are caught.

    Just in regards to carrying a taser, do you actually know how big a taser is??? It would be like carrying a TV remote around in your pocket...


  • #16
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    bug wrote:
    I see what you are trying to say alright, but using a taser gun I assume is illegal as far as I'm aware and the guards although not publicly, would be much more sympathetic of you knocking her out than using an illegal device.

    It's all about reaction unfortunately, and I don't think its fair on me to have to ask me to have to resort to physical violence to resolve these issues (as per my post above, side swiping at a ten year old), I should be safe carrying out these transactions.
    As for a taser I don't think its practical really, regardless of legality... I mean... you'd still have to have it ready to use/produce, and any weapon is all about reaction time.
    As i said if you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her. Although I do take your frustration on board.

    the other side of the coin is -- you don't know how many of her "friends" are around, and also to think about, I am a small guy, 25, but looking a lot younger and well, i guess not strong. They saw me a mile away, i was just lucky I have a group of friends not too far away - well, we were seperated but still within sight.


  • #17
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I don't know the legal text but you can use certain force to defend yourself or your property. You may also use force to protect another person from harm (maybe also their property).

    In essence, you can subdue and detain a thief that attempted to steal your money. Or tried to steal from the person in front of you.

    The violence must be proportionate to the crime, you can't beat someone up for pickpocketing but you can wrestle them to the ground and hold them until gardai arrives. If they choose to escalate the situation you can respond with appropriate force.

    Or just keep looking over your shoulder, giving everyone the evil eye!


  • #18
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    DarkJager wrote:
    Just in regards to carrying a taser, do you actually know how big a taser is??? It would be like carrying a TV remote around in your pocket...


    Really, wow! No, i looked for dem on a few irish sites, but if they are illegal here then that's why I couldn't find dem. Will expand search.

    I might ring to cop shop tomorrow and ask them for some advise regarding the whole "personal security" and defence issue......

    Joe


  • #19
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    jleavy wrote:
    If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

    Joe
    You think it's assault to hit someone but not assault to ELECTROCUTE THEM? lol


  • #20
    DonJose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    jleavy wrote:
    No, but the were "known" to the Gardi in Mill street when we reported it but they said no crim had been commited as she didn't get anything... They are watching them.
    Apologies to the honest Romanian Big Issue sellers out there ;)


  • #21
    jleavy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭jleavy


    For reference, this is the scam, only it's Galway, not Dublin.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFCWQLKFAU&rss=rss1

    I had read this before it happened to me and I guess that's why I still have my money and my card.

    Question:
    The gardi said "no crime had been committed", however by her pressing the €200 button on the ATM without my consent, is that not attempted robbery?

    if they are "known" to gardi, why are they not picked up so that I can [if needed] press charges based on whatever ATM CCTV is there?

    I guess i still don't get our legal system, or lack thereof.


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  • #22
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    jleavy wrote:
    the other side of the coin is -- you don't know how many of her "friends" are around, and also to think about, I am a small guy, 25, but looking a lot younger and well, i guess not strong. They saw me a mile away, i was just lucky I have a group of friends not too far away - well, we were seperated but still within sight.

    I know it's terrible!
    If it makes you feel better I'm a 5ft 2 female, and I'd punch one and take my chances rather than feel like an idiot afterwards.

    In fairness, I would walk away from a fight under any circumstances, but someone robbing me blind is a different story.

    I empathise with you I really do. It's a horrible situation to be in. We are all put in these situations and for the life of me I have no idea why I am put in the situation where I have to behave like a thug, but it really is self defence as far as I would see it.

    If these people aren't put behind bars for repeated offences, (seriously do you think this was an opportunist event?), then I have to deal with it the only vaguely legal way I know how. Which is tackle them under self defence.
    Until the police or legislature take zero tolerance on these issues I'm afraid we can only protect ourselves within the vague lines of the law.

    In short, next time, rely on your impulses.


  • #23
    stepbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,123 ✭✭✭stepbar


    A bit overkill in fairness Joe. Taser guns... come on now!!
    A slap of the back of the hand would be well enough.... or just use your laser card in the pub.


  • #24
    dermot_sheehan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭dermot_sheehan


    A taser is classed as a firearm under the Firearms acts, you face up to 5 years and a €10,000 fine for unlawful possession. If you use it you can be charged with assault causing harm which carries up to five years since you can not use an illegally held weapon in self defence.


  • #25
    nesf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,635 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Why on earth would you need a taser? Just gouge their eyes with your fingers or something if it's that bad which it most likely won't be.


  • #26
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    KTRIC wrote:
    No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

    Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.

    Unfortunately? Are you well in the head KTRIC? I'm glad you don't make the laws in this country. Imagine every scumbag in town carrying a taser? Impossible to defend against as it leaves you incapacitated for a few seconds after being tased, long enough for you to be robbed of whatever valuables you happen to have.

    I hope you get caught with your pepper spray, and you migth give a sh1t when you're standing in front of the judge for posession of an illegal weapon. Anyway wtf do you need pepper spray for?


  • #27
    DonJose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    jleavy wrote:
    For reference, this is the scam, only it's Galway, not Dublin.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFCWQLKFAU&rss=rss1

    I'd bet money that the 15 year old scumbag mentioned in the above is the brother of the 13 year old girl who was arrested several times for the same crime in the following thread.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055087303&referrerid=&highlight=

    It sickens me how lenient the Irish system is when it comes to deal with this foreign scum. How many times do they need to be released on bail, they just do the same crime again and again. Deport the scum, we have enough Irish bred scum as it is.


  • #28
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    aidan24326 wrote:
    Anyway wtf do you need pepper spray for?


    Well a recent example would be yesterday evening whilst crossing Grattan Bridge in Dublin city center two scumbags guys walking towards me decided to stand in my way and then gave me abuse and threatened to stick a stanly knife in my neck. I was just after coming out of my office and I was just walking to the bus minding my own business.

    So are you telling me it would be overkill to pepper spray someone with a stanley knife threatening you ??


  • #29
    \m/_(>_<)_\m/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭\m/_(>_<)_\m/


    jleavy wrote:
    Hi,
    On Saturday night I NEARLY got robbed of €200 from an ATM in Galway City Centre - (they distract you after you enter your pin and they take €200 from your account while you are distracted), anyway I had spotted the scam and got the €200 euro she withdrew.
    (now safe in Dublin)

    no they are not legal
    now....
    how the fcuk can one still get distracted while taking out money :rolleyes:
    isn't that the oldest trick in the book (is that book sold in Dublin).

    now that your safe back in Dublin may i suggest ( so you don't fall prey to these 'tricky & clever' scammers again...... stay in doors...
    but that's only my opinion


  • #30
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I would rather lose the €200 then have scumbags walking around with tasers and pepper spray and claiming it's for "self defence".


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  • #31
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Was this the tsb atm in Eyre sq?
    Another thing they do is get two young guys, 16 maybee, to try and sell you those ****ty magazines while you are at the atm.
    If you won't buy it they start shoving it in your face until you lose your temper and try to take the money you are taking out.


This discussion has been closed.
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