Are taser guns legal for members of the public?

jleavy

Hi,
On Saturday night I NEARLY got robbed of €200 from an ATM in Galway City Centre - (they distract you after you enter your pin and they take €200 from your account while you are distracted), anyway I had spotted the scam and got the €200 euro she withdrew.

My question, in the above situtation, is it permitted for me to use/deploy/fire/whatever a taser gun to subdude her until I can get help?

(She got away, but I got my money this time thankfully!).

You never think it's going to happen to you, ESPECIALLY Galway!

Joe
(now safe in Dublin)

demanufactured

If anybody tried to do that to me i would ****ing decapitate them.

KTRIC

No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.

Thrill

If tasers were available to the public then the scumbags would be first in line to buy them. No more wrestling with their victim or scams to distract them, a quick taze and you would be helpless to stop them robbing you of everything you have.

jleavy

KTRIC wrote:

No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.

So, infact if you read between the lines - if i had used a taser in this situtation she might actually get compo from me for using an legal weapon?

hmmmm.... dammed if u do, fu**d if you don't.
Joe

bug

a nuclear attack couldn't distract me at an atm machine.
From what I know of atm fraud, someone could shout "burning baby in a car" and i'd still complete my transaction before I turned round.

You have to take the same attitude as if someone distracted you in mid piss after bursting your bladder for five hours. That's the way I see it anyway.

You won't make the same mistake twice that's for sure.

My question, in the above situtation, is it permitted for me to use/deploy/fire/whatever a taser gun to subdude her until I can get help?

what did she do by the way that you needed to subdue her? In fairness I remember being hassled in Dublin City Centre by a particular gypsie of ten years old in a long dress. I found that swearing at her and side swiping kicks whilst I finished what I was doing were enough to hold her off until I could give her my undivided attention.

jleavy

bug wrote:

a nuclear attack couldn't distract me at an atm machine.
From what I know of atm fraud, someone could shout "burning baby in a car" and i'd still complete my transaction before I turned round.

You have to take the same attitude as if someone distracted you in mid piss after bursting your bladder for five hours. That's the way I see it anyway.

You won't make the same mistake twice that's for sure.

To be honest, I don't think I made any mistake here - she appeared from no where and pressed the €200 button before I could shout for help, but as soon as i copped on I friggin made the whole of Eyre Sq know what was going on, she still got away but I got my money so I'm happy.

Anyway, that's not the question - the question is would you use a taser in the same situation and do you feel it's a justified act, legal or otherwise?

What did she do?
Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.

bug

jleavy wrote:

To be honest, I don't think I made any mistake here - she appeared from no where and pressed the €200 button before I could shout for help, but as soon as i copped on I friggin made the whole of Eyre Sq know what was going on, she still got away but I got my money so I'm happy.

Anyway, that's not the question - the question is would you use a taser in the same situation and do you feel it's a justified act, legal or otherwise?

Would you have taken out a taser gun as quick as to give her a punch in the head?

I don't see your point really. If you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her full stop

jleavy

bug wrote:

Would you have taken out a taser gun as quick as to give her a punch in the head?

If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

Joe

DonJose

jleavy wrote:

What did she do?
Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.

She wasn't a Romanian by any chance was she, another scam going around is the "snatch the money as it comes out and run away". There was a 13 year old Romanian girl, only in Ireland 3 months and was already charged with doing this over a dozen times.

o1s1n

jleavy wrote:

If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

Joe

Assault or assault with a deadly weapon? Punching her in the face would probably land you in less trouble.

jleavy

DonJose wrote:

She wasn't a Romanian by any chance was she, another scam going around is the "snatch the money as it comes out and run away". There was a 13 year old Romanian girl, only in Ireland 3 months and was already charged with doing this over a dozen times.

No, but the were "known" to the Gardi in Mill street when we reported it but they said no crim had been commited as she didn't get anything... They are watching them.

o1s1n

Pepper spray and tasers are illegal here. You can get other things though. Ever heard of this;

http://www.ioffer.com/i/7377812

The DYEWitnessTM Criminal Identifier is a powerful, aqua-foam solution that temporarily blocks vision to stop a potential attack and dyes the skin green for up to eight days to assist in the identification, arrest and prosecution of the perpetrator.

bug

jleavy wrote:

Put a "Big Issue" magazine in front of thew atm screen and pressed the €200 euro button and was with her hand ready for the money to come out while i was destracted by the presence and the mag.

I see what you are trying to say alright, but using a taser gun I assume is illegal as far as I'm aware and the guards although not publicly, would be much more sympathetic of you knocking her out than using an illegal device.

It's all about reaction unfortunately, and I don't think its fair on me to have to ask me to have to resort to physical violence to resolve these issues (as per my post above, side swiping at a ten year old), I should be safe carrying out these transactions.
As for a taser I don't think its practical really, regardless of legality... I mean... you'd still have to have it ready to use/produce, and any weapon is all about reaction time.
As i said if you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her. Although I do take your frustration on board.

DarkJager

I had a similar experience about 2 years ago here in Limerick. A romanian woman (about 30 ish) approached me at the ATM and started pointing across the road and shouting at me...I turned around briefly, but saw her hand out of the corner of my eye reaching for the cash. My first reaction was to swing for her...which I did and knocked her out cold. If they want to play by those rules, they should be prepared for what happens when they are caught.

Just in regards to carrying a taser, do you actually know how big a taser is??? It would be like carrying a TV remote around in your pocket...

jleavy

bug wrote:

I see what you are trying to say alright, but using a taser gun I assume is illegal as far as I'm aware and the guards although not publicly, would be much more sympathetic of you knocking her out than using an illegal device.

It's all about reaction unfortunately, and I don't think its fair on me to have to ask me to have to resort to physical violence to resolve these issues (as per my post above, side swiping at a ten year old), I should be safe carrying out these transactions.
As for a taser I don't think its practical really, regardless of legality... I mean... you'd still have to have it ready to use/produce, and any weapon is all about reaction time.
As i said if you weren't aware of her, you weren't aware of her. Although I do take your frustration on board.

the other side of the coin is -- you don't know how many of her "friends" are around, and also to think about, I am a small guy, 25, but looking a lot younger and well, i guess not strong. They saw me a mile away, i was just lucky I have a group of friends not too far away - well, we were seperated but still within sight.

biko

I don't know the legal text but you can use certain force to defend yourself or your property. You may also use force to protect another person from harm (maybe also their property).

In essence, you can subdue and detain a thief that attempted to steal your money. Or tried to steal from the person in front of you.

The violence must be proportionate to the crime, you can't beat someone up for pickpocketing but you can wrestle them to the ground and hold them until gardai arrives. If they choose to escalate the situation you can respond with appropriate force.

Or just keep looking over your shoulder, giving everyone the evil eye!

jleavy

DarkJager wrote:

Just in regards to carrying a taser, do you actually know how big a taser is??? It would be like carrying a TV remote around in your pocket...

Really, wow! No, i looked for dem on a few irish sites, but if they are illegal here then that's why I couldn't find dem. Will expand search.

I might ring to cop shop tomorrow and ask them for some advise regarding the whole "personal security" and defence issue......

Joe

Dave!

jleavy wrote:

If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

Joe

You think it's assault to hit someone but not assault to ELECTROCUTE THEM? lol

DonJose

jleavy wrote:

No, but the were "known" to the Gardi in Mill street when we reported it but they said no crim had been commited as she didn't get anything... They are watching them.

Apologies to the honest Romanian Big Issue sellers out there

jleavy

For reference, this is the scam, only it's Galway, not Dublin.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFCWQLKFAU&rss=rss1

I had read this before it happened to me and I guess that's why I still have my money and my card.

Question:
The gardi said "no crime had been committed", however by her pressing the €200 button on the ATM without my consent, is that not attempted robbery?

if they are "known" to gardi, why are they not picked up so that I can [if needed] press charges based on whatever ATM CCTV is there?

I guess i still don't get our legal system, or lack thereof.

bug

jleavy wrote:

the other side of the coin is -- you don't know how many of her "friends" are around, and also to think about, I am a small guy, 25, but looking a lot younger and well, i guess not strong. They saw me a mile away, i was just lucky I have a group of friends not too far away - well, we were seperated but still within sight.

I know it's terrible!
If it makes you feel better I'm a 5ft 2 female, and I'd punch one and take my chances rather than feel like an idiot afterwards.

In fairness, I would walk away from a fight under any circumstances, but someone robbing me blind is a different story.

I empathise with you I really do. It's a horrible situation to be in. We are all put in these situations and for the life of me I have no idea why I am put in the situation where I have to behave like a thug, but it really is self defence as far as I would see it.

If these people aren't put behind bars for repeated offences, (seriously do you think this was an opportunist event?), then I have to deal with it the only vaguely legal way I know how. Which is tackle them under self defence.
Until the police or legislature take zero tolerance on these issues I'm afraid we can only protect ourselves within the vague lines of the law.

In short, next time, rely on your impulses.

stepbar

A bit overkill in fairness Joe. Taser guns... come on now!!
A slap of the back of the hand would be well enough.... or just use your laser card in the pub.

dermot_sheehan

A taser is classed as a firearm under the Firearms acts, you face up to 5 years and a €10,000 fine for unlawful possession. If you use it you can be charged with assault causing harm which carries up to five years since you can not use an illegally held weapon in self defence.

nesf

Why on earth would you need a taser? Just gouge their eyes with your fingers or something if it's that bad which it most likely won't be.

aidan24326

KTRIC wrote:

No unfortunatly not, they are not legal here. Neither is any passive defence device.

Doesn't stop you using it though, just do what every other Irish person does and flaunt the law. I personally carry pepper spray and I couldn't give a sh!t if I get caught with it. Thankfully I haven't had to use it yet.

Unfortunately? Are you well in the head KTRIC? I'm glad you don't make the laws in this country. Imagine every scumbag in town carrying a taser? Impossible to defend against as it leaves you incapacitated for a few seconds after being tased, long enough for you to be robbed of whatever valuables you happen to have.

I hope you get caught with your pepper spray, and you migth give a sh1t when you're standing in front of the judge for posession of an illegal weapon. Anyway wtf do you need pepper spray for?

DonJose

jleavy wrote:

For reference, this is the scam, only it's Galway, not Dublin.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp=MHKFCWQLKFAU&rss=rss1

I'd bet money that the 15 year old scumbag mentioned in the above is the brother of the 13 year old girl who was arrested several times for the same crime in the following thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055087303&referrerid=&highlight=

It sickens me how lenient the Irish system is when it comes to deal with this foreign scum. How many times do they need to be released on bail, they just do the same crime again and again. Deport the scum, we have enough Irish bred scum as it is.

KTRIC

aidan24326 wrote:

Anyway wtf do you need pepper spray for?

Well a recent example would be yesterday evening whilst crossing Grattan Bridge in Dublin city center two scumbags guys walking towards me decided to stand in my way and then gave me abuse and threatened to stick a stanly knife in my neck. I was just after coming out of my office and I was just walking to the bus minding my own business.

So are you telling me it would be overkill to pepper spray someone with a stanley knife threatening you ??

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

jleavy wrote:

Hi,
On Saturday night I NEARLY got robbed of €200 from an ATM in Galway City Centre - (they distract you after you enter your pin and they take €200 from your account while you are distracted), anyway I had spotted the scam and got the €200 euro she withdrew.
(now safe in Dublin)

no they are not legal
now....
how the fcuk can one still get distracted while taking out money :rolleyes:
isn't that the oldest trick in the book (is that book sold in Dublin).

now that your safe back in Dublin may i suggest ( so you don't fall prey to these 'tricky & clever' scammers again...... stay in doors...
but that's only my opinion

seamus

I would rather lose the €200 then have scumbags walking around with tasers and pepper spray and claiming it's for "self defence".

Tar.Aldarion

Was this the tsb atm in Eyre sq?
Another thing they do is get two young guys, 16 maybee, to try and sell you those ****ty magazines while you are at the atm.
If you won't buy it they start shoving it in your face until you lose your temper and try to take the money you are taking out.

Mahatma coat

there have been several threads about this sort of thing. why do we keep putting up with it. public opinion should still hold some sway, even if there aint going to be an Election for 5 more years.

I say a 4 year probation for all Asylum seekers with a zero tolerance policy, Say we allow them one mistake, one sitting in court to establish the rules, then if they **** up again, BYE. no countenance for other "Mitigating circumstances" establish the rules on entry, one second chance - we have to be at least fair - then if it turns out that you are a repeat offender wellyou wont be repeatin the offence here.

then all we have to do is find out some way of disposing of our homegrown crims

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

jleavy wrote:

No, but the were "known" to the Gardi in Mill street when we reported it but they said no crim had been commited as she didn't get anything... They are watching them.

ah the ould, 'we know them' and 'its ok, we are watching them' in the same sentence.... jazzzzzus the must of really wanted to get rid of you... must of been a good match on the TV or something.

cold_filter

It always baffles me how people get distracted at ATMs. Nothing comes between me and my money.

From the moment i put my card in to the moment the cash is in my wallet thats all i am thinking off.

Caliden

The same thing happened a friend of mine. She went to the atm with 2/3 drinks on her and a romanian couple pretended to fight behind her and pushed each other towards the ATM where they pressed the 200 euro button. The girl didn't know what was going on until she saw the card come out, so she grabbed the card and pushed them out of the way just in time to get the money
She was very lucky as she said the fight looked very convincing.

A mate of mine brought one back from thailand
I suppose he got it back as it doubled as torch as well
scared the ****ing **** outta me when i seen it though
he said it can kill someone if applied to the right preassure point on the body
is this true?

Oriel

How do they distract you?

jleavy

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Was this the tsb atm in Eyre sq?

From memory, yes.

WindSock

This is silliness. The Gardai arent allowed tasers. They aren't even allowed pepper spray. How on earth could it be legal for joe public to carry a gun that administers thousands of volts of electrocution? I'd rather a punch in the face than a taser.

cson

Is Romania part of the EU now? That would allow them some freedom of movement making deportation difficult (I don't think they have as much freedom as the Poles, Latvians etc).

But yeah punch them in the face. Zero tolerance of scumbag activities in this land would be welcome.

Mahatma coat

yeah but we are an island so we could just bar them entry after we kicked them out

aidan24326

Mahatma coat wrote:

I say a 4 year probation for all Asylum seekers with a zero tolerance policy, Say we allow them one mistake, one sitting in court to establish the rules, then if they **** up again, BYE. no countenance for other "Mitigating circumstances" establish the rules on entry, one second chance - we have to be at least fair - then if it turns out that you are a repeat offender well you wont be repeatin the offence here.

Agree 100%. I can't understand why there isn't some sort of system like this in place. We have enough scum in this country already without inviting them in from everywhere else. Any repeat offenders who are here as asylum seekers should be given one final warning, offend again within the next 24 months and you're on the first plane home, end of.

The minority of them who are scumbags only do harm to the ones who are here to play fair.

KTRIC wrote:

So are you telling me it would be overkill to pepper spray someone with a stanley knife threatening you ??

No I'm not. If I had pepper spray in my posession in your situation I'd let the fcuks have it straight in the eyes. But that doesn't mean every person should have the right to carry the stuff. It's illegal for a reason.

boreds wrote:

This is silliness. The Gardai arent allowed tasers. They aren't even allowed pepper spray. How on earth could it be legal for joe public to carry a gun that administers thousands of volts of electrocution? I'd rather a punch in the face than a taser

Damn right. They carry an approx. 50,000 volt shock. Not designed to be lethal (only fatal in rare cases) but to be severely painful and incapacitating in the short term. Give me a few good punches any time.

Personally I don't even like the idea of police having them.

Mahatma coat

the last people whoshould hav stunguns/tazers are the gardai, it would just lead totrigger happy big thick mulchie gards zapin everyone in sight, they're ****in dangerous enough as it is with their batons.

seriously lad if ya couldnt take 14 year old roma gypsy girl without a weapon then the best advice is to stay indoors

arybvtcw0eolkf

I read about a problem with Gypo's on Eyre Sq. a few months back, is it really bad now?.

I'm a pretty big bloke and have no problem blocking out most people from the ATM but if someone got too close it wouldn't cause me a second thought to tell em to Fvck off.

I'd love to use a Tazer on 'em, Mmmmmmmmmm... I wonder what Patrick Bateman would suggest we do to little gypo girls hanging around ATM's?.

:cool:

Ruen

jleavy wrote:

If I punched her in any way shape of form, I think I'd be up **** creek right now. They'd hav me for asault, or have i got a very black and white view of it - maybe too black and white?

Joe

But you think electrocuting her might've been okay???:rolleyes:

Ruen

Mahatma coat wrote:

the last people whoshould hav stunguns/tazers are the gardai, it would just lead totrigger happy big thick mulchie gards zapin everyone in sight, they're ****in dangerous enough as it is with their batons.

seriously lad if ya couldnt take 14 year old roma gypsy girl without a weapon then the best advice is to stay indoors

That's strange I'd have thought the gardai should be the first to have them, anyway loads of guards have guns so they may as well give them all tazers.

jleavy

Ruen wrote:

But you think electrocuting her might've been okay???:rolleyes:

Well, in a way I guess I did. I guessed non-letal was better then protential assult charges if i wrestled her to the ground.

Anyway, NOW I do see the point. After seeking some craification:
"you can protect your person or properity using 'resonable' force until Gardi assistance can be obtained, however you may not use any weapon or firearm (this extends to Mag lights etc)".

anyone know where to learn self-defence?

jleavy

Ruen wrote:

That's strange I'd have thought the gardai should be the first to have them, anyway loads of guards have guns so they may as well give them all tazers.

"loads of guards have guns" ....Elaborate please?

I thought only members of the ERU and ARU and some detectives had live guns?

Joe

Scrotum

Mairt wrote:

I
I'd love to use a Tazer on 'em, Mmmmmmmmmm... I wonder what Patrick Bateman would suggest we do to little gypo girls hanging around ATM's?.

:cool:

I'd love to use a Tazer on 'em, Mmmmmmmmmmm... I want some chicken.
Always on guard at atm's, but who the fu*k is patrick bateman.

Ruen

jleavy wrote:

"loads of guards have guns" ....Elaborate please?

I thought only members of the ERU and ARU and some detectives had live guns?

Joe

Well the ERU and all detectives carry them, a good chunk of the force. Anyway I just think that the typical comments about how gardai would be trigger happy eejits if they had guns, or tazers as the case may be, is a bit extreme because members of the force carry them as standard on a daily basis and we never hear of them shooting anyone.

StephenC_IRL

jleavy wrote:

Hi,
On Saturday night I NEARLY got robbed of €200 from an ATM in Galway City Centre - (they distract you after you enter your pin and they take €200 from your account while you are distracted), anyway I had spotted the scam and got the €200 euro she withdrew.

My question, in the above situtation, is it permitted for me to use/deploy/fire/whatever a taser gun to subdude her until I can get help?

(She got away, but I got my money this time thankfully!).

You never think it's going to happen to you, ESPECIALLY Galway!

Joe
(now safe in Dublin)

take apart a disposable camera with a flash, my friend did it and got people in school, it messes peoples limbs up for an hour or so with a good jab, and a modification for 3 extra capacitors