Baby obtains gun licence on internet

Ruu_Old · 16-05-2007 10:29PM #1

Help us all! :eek: Linky

Bubba Ludwig may only be 10 months old, but he has already successfully obtained a gun licence in the US state of Illinois.

Bubba's father, Howard Ludwig, applied on his behalf after his grandfather gave him a shotgun as an heirloom.

Mr Ludwig said he had not expected to succeed, but he filled in the online form, paid $5 and the licence was his.

US gun laws are regularly the subject of fierce debate, renewed recently after April's Virginia Tech killings.

Gunman Cho Seung-hui was able to exploit a loophole in Virginia state law and obtain weapons despite having a history of mental illness. The loophole was later closed.

Technical problems

The licence includes a picture of a toothless Bubba and a squiggle that represents his best attempt at a signature.

In an article in the Chicago Sun-Times, Mr Ludwig, 30, said that he expected the application to be turned down.

Two rejections did in fact come, he said, but both related to technical problems - on one application he forgot to tick a box stating his son was a US citizen - rather than Bubba's youth.

His third attempt was rewarded with a state firearm owner's identification card (FOID), complete with details of Bubba's height, weight and date of birth.

'No age restrictions'

Illinois gun laws are said to be among the strictest in the US.

But Illinois State Police, who oversee the application process, said that they had followed the law in this case.

"Does a 10-month-old need a FOID card? No, but there are no restrictions under the act regarding age of applicants," the Associated Press news agency quoted Lt Scott Compton as saying.

Mr Ludwig said Bubba's gun would likely remain at his grandfather's house until he was 14.

"I'm not about to approve any unsupervised hunting or trap shooting for Bubba," he wrote in the Chicago daily.

"Still, I'm glad he was able to get his FOID card. It makes an adorable addition to his baby book."

GLaDOS · 16-05-2007 11:29PM

Heh, guns dont kill people, people do....

Kojak · 16-05-2007 11:38PM

"Mr Ludwig said Bubba's gun would likely remain at his grandfather's house until he was 14."

Oh yeah, because by 14 he will be mature enough to handle a gun :rolleyes:

Well, I guess his auld lad was going with the philosophy of "teach 'em young"

KamiKazi · 17-05-2007 12:54AM

what angers me even more is the knob jockeys who blame video games and music instead of the blatenly idiotic gun laws

Manic Moran · 17-05-2007 01:29AM

So what's the problem?

Oh yeah, because by 14 he will be mature enough to handle a gun

If you weren't, I'm sorry for you. But it was within the life-span of some people still alive where pre-teens would cycle down the road with a .22 on their back to go to a field and do some plinking unsupervised. Annie Oakley was 9 when she started hunting, she seemed to be mature enough.
I presume that the shotgun will be made available to the kid under parental supervision until the parent is confident that he is capable of responsible usage when unsupervised. Saw a girl at the range last weekend, the lass couldn't have been much over ten, happily plinking away with her smallbore rifle. Followed all the safety regulations and range rules, couldn't complain, dad was on the next lane if she needed help.

what angers me even more is the knob jockeys who blame video games and music instead of the blatenly idiotic gun laws

I blame the parents. Not video games, and not gun laws.

NTM

Terry · 17-05-2007 02:51AM

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

Manic Moran · 17-05-2007 04:44AM

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

Which strikes me as perfect justification for the retort of "in that case, go complain about Irish gun laws, not American ones." It would seem to me to be the height of hypocrisy to approve of Irish people to make commentary on American law and policy and then disapprove of an American resident's defense of those laws and policies.

Oh, and you'll note the name is 'Moran'

NTM

davyjose · 17-05-2007 06:39AM

Don't you see - in the case of another potential school shooting, this kid will always be able to defend himself.
I've been there - the US midwest is THE weirdest place on the planet!!!

sam34 · 17-05-2007 09:33AM

Manic Moran wrote:

. But it was within the life-span of some people still alive where pre-teens would cycle down the road with a .22 on their back to go to a field and do some plinking unsupervised. Annie Oakley was 9 when she started hunting, she seemed to be mature enough.

I presume that the shotgun will be made available to the kid under parental supervision until the parent is confident that he is capable of responsible usage when unsupervised.

.

it wasnt all that long ago either when kids were sent up chimneys or down mines for hours on end and people thought it was ok. just because other people do something, it doesnt make it right.

i wouldnt presume that at all. if we're talking about a family who think its reasonable to buy a shotgun for a baby, then i wouldnt assume they are at all reasonable or responsible

bullets · 17-05-2007 11:38AM

It worries me more that someone will name their child "Bubba" more so than
someone wanting to keep a family heirloom in the family.

Anyone know what Bubba is actually short for ?

~B

Vegeta · 17-05-2007 11:44AM

I don't want to rain on anyones parade but very soon I think 14 year olds will be able to get a license here too.......a training license but a license all the same.

A full license is available here at 16.

Vegeta · 17-05-2007 11:46AM

Terry wrote:

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

This surely borders prejudice!!

Kiith · 17-05-2007 12:03PM

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun. Its an absoluste disgrace. And what the hell would they need a shotgun for? Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce.

sam34 · 17-05-2007 12:07PM

wait until the next school shooting in the states and they'll all be wondering what went wrong and how it could have been prevented.....

Clare gunner · 17-05-2007 12:14PM

Started shooting when I was TEN here in Ireland,with my own 410 shotgun,liscensed in my fathers name and he allowed me to keep it in my room with the ammo,and to use it when I felt like it without his supervision.
Oh,he was American BTW.And he near enough did have to go and sweep chimineys as a kid.He had to support a family of six as the eldest at 12 in the Depression in the US in the 20s,when it was considerd perfectly normal for kids to have to quit school at ten to work to make money.Your outlook on things at the time.
Cant say either of my parents were irresponsible or otherwise bad..They just never rerad any modern parenting how it should be done type crap books.

Oh you want weird in the US???...LA is tops of the list

Vegeta · 17-05-2007 12:19PM

Kiith wrote:

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun. Its an absoluste disgrace. And what the hell would they need a shotgun for? Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce.

You can have a license for a shotgun here in Ireland at 16.

sam34 · 17-05-2007 12:23PM

Clare gunner wrote:

Started shooting when I was TEN here in Ireland,with my own 410 shotgun,liscensed in my fathers name and he allowed me to keep it in my room with the ammo,and to use it when I felt like it without his supervision.
Oh,he was American BTW
Cant say either of my parents were irresponsible or otherwise bad

wasnt surprised when you said he was american, that fits. but dont you think he was irresponsible? giving a CHILD a loaded gun and not supervising that child. thats child abuse if you ask me.

Clare gunner · 17-05-2007 12:25PM

Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce

]

First hand legal experiance of them?Work in the legal profession and are able to differiante between US and Irish laws and their origins?Been over there ,owned one,applied for one?

Or just mouthing off on somthing you really are not too up on???:rolleyes:

Clare gunner · 17-05-2007 12:28PM

sam34 wrote:

wasnt surprised when you said he was american, that fits. but dont you think he was irresponsible? giving a CHILD a loaded gun and not supervising that child. thats child abuse if you ask me.

No quite frankly.He was my Father [so watch yourself there:mad: ] He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.Called teaching responsibility.Somthing parents could do with relearning nowadays.Especially Irish parents.
Oh I should add BTW,that my Grandfather who was German,[so you have another race of gun nuts to pick on.]Was teaching me to shoot and hunt when I was seven. Helped him gut ,dress and butcher deer when I was six...

BooHoo I was soo abused as a kid...I need immediate counselling...Yeah Rightt.

Clare gunner · 17-05-2007 12:40PM

Anyone know what Bubba is actually short for ?

]

Aquick Google on it.
Bubba is a black term...[ooops PC screen install..]Er, African American term for "Brother".
Used in the Southern States of the US.West coast version is "Bro".

sam34 · 17-05-2007 12:42PM

Clare gunner wrote:

He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.
QUOTE]

oh yeah, kids are so trustworthy with lethal weapons.lets give them all guns! and if farmers want to set poison around their farms, sure they can get their kids to carry it around in their lunchboxes for them. :rolleyes:

LovelyTom · 17-05-2007 12:50PM

well with a name like that! he's expected to own a gun!

Vegeta · 17-05-2007 01:47PM

sam34 wrote:

oh yeah, kids are so trustworthy with lethal weapons :rolleyes:

Your ignorance is amazing. You do know some of the best marksmen and responsible gun users in this country are teenage kids.

Just because your kids are irresponsible or you were an irresponsible kid doesn't mean that they all are.

Just visit the shooting forum's target shooting pictures thread.

Kiith · 17-05-2007 04:15PM

Clare gunner wrote:

First hand legal experiance of them?Work in the legal profession and are able to differiante between US and Irish laws and their origins?Been over there ,owned one,applied for one?

Or just mouthing off on somthing you really are not too up on???:rolleyes:

I dont need first hand legal experience. A 10 month old child got a gun license. Thats reason enough to see how rediculous they are.

5starpool · 17-05-2007 04:56PM

Clare gunner wrote:

No quite frankly.He was my Father [so watch yourself there:mad: ] He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.Called teaching responsibility.Somthing parents could do with relearning nowadays.Especially Irish parents.
Oh I should add BTW,that my Grandfather who was German,[so you have another race of gun nuts to pick on.]Was teaching me to shoot and hunt when I was seven. Helped him gut ,dress and butcher deer when I was six...

BooHoo I was soo abused as a kid...I need immediate counselling...Yeah Rightt.

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable? Would your opinion just be that 'these things happen, best to treat kids as adults'??

I am no expert in law by any means but I cannot imagine it is legal to allow a 10 year old to have a gun and live ammo in his room in this country, or even in the US, and I would imagine a parent would get into quite a bit of trouble over it.

dimebag249 · 17-05-2007 05:01PM

Kiith wrote:

I dont need first hand legal experience. A 10 month old child got a gun license. Thats reason enough to see how rediculous they are.

Wow Kiith, your argumentative style of putting you're hands over your ears and shouting "LAH LAH LAH, I'M RIGHT, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is pretty effective. You captain your schools debating team? Go to school even? At school I learned that jumping to conclusions about people without knowing anything about the issues involved, and in fact IGNORING information and different opinions offered to you is called IGNORANCE and PREJUDICE. These are BAD things.

Boston · 17-05-2007 05:05PM

5starpool wrote:

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable? Would your opinion just be that 'these things happen, best to treat kids as adults'??

An irish man teens don't kill themselfs these days? You'd have some kind of point if it was accidential death through miss use, but if someone actually wants to kill themselves, they'll find a way. A fact borne out time and time again.

fact is, we don't live in the states. It's a very different place where Guns and Gun related crime are integral parts of their culture.

dimebag249 · 17-05-2007 05:13PM

5starpool wrote:

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable?.

Not any more than if the poor kid in question killed him/herself with a kitchen knife or anything else for that matter. Are you suggesting that someone might kill themselves because they own a gun? If not then why mention it? Suicide is always a tragedy for those involved, I thankfully can't imagine what a person must have to go through to feel it's their only option, but I would guess the reasons would range from suffering abuse, to clinical depression. How can we say that suicide using one method is more preventable than suiside using another? I don't think the debate is very sensitive to the real issues at play with someone that depressed.

Jesus Wept · 17-05-2007 06:07PM

dimebag249 wrote:

Not any more than if the poor kid in question killed him/herself with a kitchen knife or anything else for that matter. Are you suggesting that someone might kill themselves because they own a gun?

Sure why not leave a few cyanide pills around the kids too, just explain what they are and what they do. Then there will be no accidents. :rolleyes:

Not many people use a knife/kitchen knife to commit suicide.

Manic Moran · 17-05-2007 06:25PM

sam34 wrote:

it wasnt all that long ago either when kids were sent up chimneys or down mines for hours on end and people thought it was ok. just because other people do something, it doesnt make it right.

I'm sure you are capable of distinguishing between an act which involves limited maturity and done out of economic necessity, and an act which is predominantly recreational and requires responsibility and self-discipline.

or even in the US, and I would imagine a parent would get into quite a bit of trouble over it.

Depends on the State. Some have 'child protection laws', some don't. I prefer lesser interference from the government, myself. It's a six-of-one, half-dozen-of-the-other affair. There have been instances where it's not worked out so well (A chap here in the Bay Area was shot and killed when he left a loaded pistol within reach of his three year old this week which, IMO, is his own fault), but similarly there are also instances of pre-teens successfully defending themselves and others with firearms which were available to them and which they knew how to use.

and if farmers want to set poison around their farms, sure they can get their kids to carry it around in their lunchboxes for them

Don't farmers tend to make their own decisions on what their kids are capable of doing around the farm? You can get a provisional driver's license at 17, but how many people grew up on a farm and were running the tractor or driving the old Ford Escort banger around the farm long before then?

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun.

Probably because nobody in Ireland often considers teaching 14-year-olds how to be responsible with firearms. We don't expect them to be. As a result, people have come to believe that they cannot be responsible, because almost nobody's seen one who is. But almost nobody's seen one, because nobody's tried to teach them, because they think that they cannot be responsible, because they've never seen one who is... (Except for the oldest generation) You get the idea.

There is nothing to indicate that a 14-year old (Since we appear to have picked this arbitrary age) is inherently incapable of responsible actions. We simply choose not to teach them what is and is not responsible because we think that they should instead be relatively care-free, go to school, and play with friends. Just don't get run over by a car, and never take lifts from strangers.

Not many people use a knife/kitchen knife to commit suicide.

Never heard of people slitting their wrists?
We had a guy here deliberately lop off his head with a chainsaw this week. Points for creativity there, though I wouldn't like to be the person on clean-up detail.

NTM

Jesus Wept · 17-05-2007 06:28PM

Manic Moran wrote:

Never heard of people slitting their wrists?
We had a guy here deliberately lop off his head with a chainsaw this week.

NTM

No, I never have :rolleyes:

I believe I said not many. I think it is a fairly low percentage of suicides use that method.

Baby obtains gun licence on internet

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