Baby obtains gun licence on internet

Ruu_Old

Help us all! :eek: Linky

Bubba Ludwig may only be 10 months old, but he has already successfully obtained a gun licence in the US state of Illinois.

Bubba's father, Howard Ludwig, applied on his behalf after his grandfather gave him a shotgun as an heirloom.

Mr Ludwig said he had not expected to succeed, but he filled in the online form, paid $5 and the licence was his.

US gun laws are regularly the subject of fierce debate, renewed recently after April's Virginia Tech killings.

Gunman Cho Seung-hui was able to exploit a loophole in Virginia state law and obtain weapons despite having a history of mental illness. The loophole was later closed.

Technical problems

The licence includes a picture of a toothless Bubba and a squiggle that represents his best attempt at a signature.

In an article in the Chicago Sun-Times, Mr Ludwig, 30, said that he expected the application to be turned down.

Two rejections did in fact come, he said, but both related to technical problems - on one application he forgot to tick a box stating his son was a US citizen - rather than Bubba's youth.

His third attempt was rewarded with a state firearm owner's identification card (FOID), complete with details of Bubba's height, weight and date of birth.

'No age restrictions'

Illinois gun laws are said to be among the strictest in the US.

But Illinois State Police, who oversee the application process, said that they had followed the law in this case.

"Does a 10-month-old need a FOID card? No, but there are no restrictions under the act regarding age of applicants," the Associated Press news agency quoted Lt Scott Compton as saying.

Mr Ludwig said Bubba's gun would likely remain at his grandfather's house until he was 14.

"I'm not about to approve any unsupervised hunting or trap shooting for Bubba," he wrote in the Chicago daily.

"Still, I'm glad he was able to get his FOID card. It makes an adorable addition to his baby book."

GLaDOS

Heh, guns dont kill people, people do....

Kojak

"Mr Ludwig said Bubba's gun would likely remain at his grandfather's house until he was 14."

Oh yeah, because by 14 he will be mature enough to handle a gun :rolleyes:

Well, I guess his auld lad was going with the philosophy of "teach 'em young"

KamiKazi

what angers me even more is the knob jockeys who blame video games and music instead of the blatenly idiotic gun laws

Manic Moran

So what's the problem?

Oh yeah, because by 14 he will be mature enough to handle a gun

If you weren't, I'm sorry for you. But it was within the life-span of some people still alive where pre-teens would cycle down the road with a .22 on their back to go to a field and do some plinking unsupervised. Annie Oakley was 9 when she started hunting, she seemed to be mature enough.
I presume that the shotgun will be made available to the kid under parental supervision until the parent is confident that he is capable of responsible usage when unsupervised. Saw a girl at the range last weekend, the lass couldn't have been much over ten, happily plinking away with her smallbore rifle. Followed all the safety regulations and range rules, couldn't complain, dad was on the next lane if she needed help.

what angers me even more is the knob jockeys who blame video games and music instead of the blatenly idiotic gun laws

I blame the parents. Not video games, and not gun laws.

NTM

Terry

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

Manic Moran

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

Which strikes me as perfect justification for the retort of "in that case, go complain about Irish gun laws, not American ones." It would seem to me to be the height of hypocrisy to approve of Irish people to make commentary on American law and policy and then disapprove of an American resident's defense of those laws and policies.

Oh, and you'll note the name is 'Moran'

NTM

davyjose

Don't you see - in the case of another potential school shooting, this kid will always be able to defend himself.
I've been there - the US midwest is THE weirdest place on the planet!!!

sam34

Manic Moran wrote:

. But it was within the life-span of some people still alive where pre-teens would cycle down the road with a .22 on their back to go to a field and do some plinking unsupervised. Annie Oakley was 9 when she started hunting, she seemed to be mature enough.


I presume that the shotgun will be made available to the kid under parental supervision until the parent is confident that he is capable of responsible usage when unsupervised.

.

it wasnt all that long ago either when kids were sent up chimneys or down mines for hours on end and people thought it was ok. just because other people do something, it doesnt make it right.

i wouldnt presume that at all. if we're talking about a family who think its reasonable to buy a shotgun for a baby, then i wouldnt assume they are at all reasonable or responsible

bullets

It worries me more that someone will name their child "Bubba" more so than
someone wanting to keep a family heirloom in the family.

Anyone know what Bubba is actually short for ?

~B

Vegeta

I don't want to rain on anyones parade but very soon I think 14 year olds will be able to get a license here too.......a training license but a license all the same.

A full license is available here at 16.

Vegeta

Terry wrote:

I blame manic moron for suporting everything american on this bulletin board.
he needs to remember that most readers here are Irish people living in Ireland and that the gun laws here are different to those in the americas.

This surely borders prejudice!!

Kiith

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun. Its an absoluste disgrace. And what the hell would they need a shotgun for? Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce.

sam34

wait until the next school shooting in the states and they'll all be wondering what went wrong and how it could have been prevented.....

Clare gunner

Started shooting when I was TEN here in Ireland,with my own 410 shotgun,liscensed in my fathers name and he allowed me to keep it in my room with the ammo,and to use it when I felt like it without his supervision.
Oh,he was American BTW.And he near enough did have to go and sweep chimineys as a kid.He had to support a family of six as the eldest at 12 in the Depression in the US in the 20s,when it was considerd perfectly normal for kids to have to quit school at ten to work to make money.Your outlook on things at the time.
Cant say either of my parents were irresponsible or otherwise bad..They just never rerad any modern parenting how it should be done type crap books.

Oh you want weird in the US???...LA is tops of the list

Vegeta

Kiith wrote:

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun. Its an absoluste disgrace. And what the hell would they need a shotgun for? Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce.

You can have a license for a shotgun here in Ireland at 16.

sam34

Clare gunner wrote:

Started shooting when I was TEN here in Ireland,with my own 410 shotgun,liscensed in my fathers name and he allowed me to keep it in my room with the ammo,and to use it when I felt like it without his supervision.
Oh,he was American BTW
Cant say either of my parents were irresponsible or otherwise bad

wasnt surprised when you said he was american, that fits. but dont you think he was irresponsible? giving a CHILD a loaded gun and not supervising that child. thats child abuse if you ask me.

Clare gunner

Gun Laws in the states are an absolute farce

]

First hand legal experiance of them?Work in the legal profession and are able to differiante between US and Irish laws and their origins?Been over there ,owned one,applied for one?

Or just mouthing off on somthing you really are not too up on???:rolleyes:

Clare gunner

sam34 wrote:

wasnt surprised when you said he was american, that fits. but dont you think he was irresponsible? giving a CHILD a loaded gun and not supervising that child. thats child abuse if you ask me.

No quite frankly.He was my Father [so watch yourself there:mad: ] He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.Called teaching responsibility.Somthing parents could do with relearning nowadays.Especially Irish parents.
Oh I should add BTW,that my Grandfather who was German,[so you have another race of gun nuts to pick on.]Was teaching me to shoot and hunt when I was seven. Helped him gut ,dress and butcher deer when I was six...

BooHoo I was soo abused as a kid...I need immediate counselling...Yeah Rightt.

Clare gunner

Anyone know what Bubba is actually short for ?

]

Aquick Google on it.
Bubba is a black term...[ooops PC screen install..]Er, African American term for "Brother".
Used in the Southern States of the US.West coast version is "Bro".

sam34

Clare gunner wrote:

He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.
QUOTE]

oh yeah, kids are so trustworthy with lethal weapons.lets give them all guns! and if farmers want to set poison around their farms, sure they can get their kids to carry it around in their lunchboxes for them. :rolleyes:

LovelyTom

well with a name like that! he's expected to own a gun!

Vegeta

sam34 wrote:

oh yeah, kids are so trustworthy with lethal weapons :rolleyes:

Your ignorance is amazing. You do know some of the best marksmen and responsible gun users in this country are teenage kids.

Just because your kids are irresponsible or you were an irresponsible kid doesn't mean that they all are.

Just visit the shooting forum's target shooting pictures thread.

Kiith

Clare gunner wrote:

First hand legal experiance of them?Work in the legal profession and are able to differiante between US and Irish laws and their origins?Been over there ,owned one,applied for one?

Or just mouthing off on somthing you really are not too up on???:rolleyes:

I dont need first hand legal experience. A 10 month old child got a gun license. Thats reason enough to see how rediculous they are.

5starpool

Clare gunner wrote:

No quite frankly.He was my Father [so watch yourself there:mad: ] He taught me how to use it and trusted me not to do anything stupid with it.Called teaching responsibility.Somthing parents could do with relearning nowadays.Especially Irish parents.
Oh I should add BTW,that my Grandfather who was German,[so you have another race of gun nuts to pick on.]Was teaching me to shoot and hunt when I was seven. Helped him gut ,dress and butcher deer when I was six...

BooHoo I was soo abused as a kid...I need immediate counselling...Yeah Rightt.

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable? Would your opinion just be that 'these things happen, best to treat kids as adults'??

I am no expert in law by any means but I cannot imagine it is legal to allow a 10 year old to have a gun and live ammo in his room in this country, or even in the US, and I would imagine a parent would get into quite a bit of trouble over it.

dimebag249

Kiith wrote:

I dont need first hand legal experience. A 10 month old child got a gun license. Thats reason enough to see how rediculous they are.

Wow Kiith, your argumentative style of putting you're hands over your ears and shouting "LAH LAH LAH, I'M RIGHT, I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is pretty effective. You captain your schools debating team? Go to school even? At school I learned that jumping to conclusions about people without knowing anything about the issues involved, and in fact IGNORING information and different opinions offered to you is called IGNORANCE and PREJUDICE. These are BAD things.

Boston

5starpool wrote:

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable? Would your opinion just be that 'these things happen, best to treat kids as adults'??

An irish man teens don't kill themselfs these days? You'd have some kind of point if it was accidential death through miss use, but if someone actually wants to kill themselves, they'll find a way. A fact borne out time and time again.

fact is, we don't live in the states. It's a very different place where Guns and Gun related crime are integral parts of their culture.

dimebag249

5starpool wrote:

You honestly think there is nothing wrong with that? If you heard of a case where a kid of 13 committed suicide with a gun and ammo that his parents allowed to keep in his room, over some teenage angst thing that afflicts from time to time, you wouldn't think the parents were culpable?.

Not any more than if the poor kid in question killed him/herself with a kitchen knife or anything else for that matter. Are you suggesting that someone might kill themselves because they own a gun? If not then why mention it? Suicide is always a tragedy for those involved, I thankfully can't imagine what a person must have to go through to feel it's their only option, but I would guess the reasons would range from suffering abuse, to clinical depression. How can we say that suicide using one method is more preventable than suiside using another? I don't think the debate is very sensitive to the real issues at play with someone that depressed.

Jesus Wept

dimebag249 wrote:

Not any more than if the poor kid in question killed him/herself with a kitchen knife or anything else for that matter. Are you suggesting that someone might kill themselves because they own a gun?

Sure why not leave a few cyanide pills around the kids too, just explain what they are and what they do. Then there will be no accidents. :rolleyes:

Not many people use a knife/kitchen knife to commit suicide.

Manic Moran

sam34 wrote:

it wasnt all that long ago either when kids were sent up chimneys or down mines for hours on end and people thought it was ok. just because other people do something, it doesnt make it right.

I'm sure you are capable of distinguishing between an act which involves limited maturity and done out of economic necessity, and an act which is predominantly recreational and requires responsibility and self-discipline.

or even in the US, and I would imagine a parent would get into quite a bit of trouble over it.

Depends on the State. Some have 'child protection laws', some don't. I prefer lesser interference from the government, myself. It's a six-of-one, half-dozen-of-the-other affair. There have been instances where it's not worked out so well (A chap here in the Bay Area was shot and killed when he left a loaded pistol within reach of his three year old this week which, IMO, is his own fault), but similarly there are also instances of pre-teens successfully defending themselves and others with firearms which were available to them and which they knew how to use.

and if farmers want to set poison around their farms, sure they can get their kids to carry it around in their lunchboxes for them

Don't farmers tend to make their own decisions on what their kids are capable of doing around the farm? You can get a provisional driver's license at 17, but how many people grew up on a farm and were running the tractor or driving the old Ford Escort banger around the farm long before then?

There is no way, and i mean no way in hell, that a regular 14 year old is mature enough to own a gun.

Probably because nobody in Ireland often considers teaching 14-year-olds how to be responsible with firearms. We don't expect them to be. As a result, people have come to believe that they cannot be responsible, because almost nobody's seen one who is. But almost nobody's seen one, because nobody's tried to teach them, because they think that they cannot be responsible, because they've never seen one who is... (Except for the oldest generation) You get the idea.

There is nothing to indicate that a 14-year old (Since we appear to have picked this arbitrary age) is inherently incapable of responsible actions. We simply choose not to teach them what is and is not responsible because we think that they should instead be relatively care-free, go to school, and play with friends. Just don't get run over by a car, and never take lifts from strangers.

Not many people use a knife/kitchen knife to commit suicide.

Never heard of people slitting their wrists?
We had a guy here deliberately lop off his head with a chainsaw this week. Points for creativity there, though I wouldn't like to be the person on clean-up detail.

NTM

Jesus Wept

Manic Moran wrote:

Never heard of people slitting their wrists?
We had a guy here deliberately lop off his head with a chainsaw this week.

NTM

No, I never have :rolleyes:

I believe I said not many. I think it is a fairly low percentage of suicides use that method.

spooiirt!!

On european internet forums i get very annoyed at all the " dumb ass yanks and their guns" statements, its not like theres no violence in europe, eg. consider the IRA, RAF in Germany, and the latest bombing in madrid before you categorize americans as right-wing psychos and europeans as (obviously) superior.

And accordingly, on american discussion forums i get equally enraged by all the " i need to own enough firepower to exterminate my hometown in order to defend myself attitude".

Basically i hate you all!

Boston

The-Rigger wrote:

No, I never have :rolleyes:

I believe I said not many. I think it is a fairly low percentage of suicides use that method.

And what? Sticking a shot gun in you mouth is common? There are a lot of legally held firearms in Ireland, yet suicide using them is fairly uncommon. What exactly is your argument for bringing suicide into this? If someone is determined to kill themselves they will fine a way.

The_B_Man

there was a garda shot today and killed. apparently it was an accident. to be honest, i'd trust a garda more than a 10 month old baby/14yr old kid to be careful with a gun. in fact, in my opinion, a garda would be around 10 times less likely to be irresponsible with a gun than a 14 yr old. going by this, i definately wouldnt let my kids near a gun.

another point. If the same laws applied to grenades/nukes, would you still train a kid to "use one properly"? dont think so. the possibility of an accident happening should be enough for any responsible parent to not let them near the bombs/guns/etc in the first place.

Dar

The_B_Man wrote:

there was a garda shot today and killed. apparently it was an accident. to be honest, i'd trust a garda more than a 10 month old baby/14yr old kid to be careful with a gun. in fact, in my opinion, a garda would be around 10 times less likely to be irresponsible with a gun than a 14 yr old. going by this, i definately wouldnt let my kids near a gun.

Humans don't achieve maturity and responsibility magically by turning 18. These things must be learned. Wrap a child up in cotton wool until they are 18 and you deny them the ability learn maturity and responsibility. Teach a child responsibility early and I'm sure at 14 they will be responsible enough to handle a firearm safely. Do not do so and that child probably couldn't be trusted with a firearm at 20.

The_B_Man

what about a trained 48 yr old garda with a family surrounded by other trained gardai at the garda HQ? must be some sorta responsibility there? and yet that still happened.

the most responsible ppl in the world can make mistakes. kids are generally known to have limited life experience by the time they are 14. why would we give such a person a weapon that can kill!! be it a gun, a car, or an airplane!

Dar

The_B_Man wrote:

what about a trained 48 yr old garda with a family surrounded by other trained gardai at the garda HQ? must be some sorta responsibility there? and yet that still happened.

the most responsible ppl in the world can make mistakes. kids are generally known to have limited life experience by the time they are 14. why would we give such a person a weapon that can kill!! be it a gun, a car, or an airplane!

You're right. Let's just wrap them up in cotton wool and shield them from the real world. They'll end up immature 'adults' with no concept of responsibility, but hey.

Boston

The_B_Man wrote:

what about a trained 48 yr old garda with a family surrounded by other trained gardai at the garda HQ? must be some sorta responsibility there? and yet that still happened.

the most responsible ppl in the world can make mistakes. kids are generally known to have limited life experience by the time they are 14. why would we give such a person a weapon that can kill!! be it a gun, a car, or an airplane!

You don't know anything about garda training or how much respect he had for the weapon. I've heard stories of gardi going onto ranges with absolutely no regard for what they are doing.

sam34

Manic Moran wrote:

Never heard of people slitting their wrists?
We had a guy here deliberately lop off his head with a chainsaw this week.

yep, in my profession i come across them all the time. and wrist-slitting rarely causes death.
and eh, whats the point about the chainsaw? the poster was referring to kitchen knives.

Adyx

I know I'd prefer to have a fourteen year old with a license who has been brought up properly with a shotgun then a fourteen year old with no license and an "attitude". Don't get me wrong, the gun laws in America are ridiculous. But a baby getting a license and a shotgun when he's fourteen isn't the problem.

sam34

Vegeta wrote:

Your ignorance is amazing. You do know some of the best marksmen and responsible gun users in this country are teenage kids.

Just because your kids are irresponsible or you were an irresponsible kid doesn't mean that they all are.

Just visit the shooting forum's target shooting pictures thread.

ahem. personal abuse alert.
and no, i dont know that some of the most responsible gun users in this country are teenagers, and pictures on an internet forum will never be evidence of that.
furthermore, the post i was replying to made reference to a 7 (yes, thats SEVEN) year old CHILD being taught how to use a gun. we're talking aboiut someone who doesnt have the coordination to write neatly and clearly, yet theyre being given a lethal weapon.

lastly, you shouldnt assume that i have kids, or that if i do that theyre irresponsible, or that i myself was irresponsible. you know nothing about my backgground so shouldnt go making assumptions like that.

Manic Moran

and eh, whats the point about the chainsaw? the poster was referring to kitchen knives.

Just pointing out that people can and have used items which we normally wouldn't consider for carrying out a suicide.

we're talking aboiut someone who doesnt have the coordination to write neatly and clearly, yet theyre being given a lethal weapon.

Excellent: So in addition to being taught responsibility and a proper respect for firearms, they can also practise and develop their eye-hand co-ordination!

I've heard stories of gardi going onto ranges with absolutely no regard for what they are doing.

From the stories my old PDF cadre sergeant was telling me, I don't think the Army's got the best impression of Garda firearms proficiency either. Wasn't the last Garda to be wounded by firearms shot by another Garda as well?

I know I'd prefer to have a fourteen year old with a license who has been brought up properly with a shotgun then a fourteen year old with no license and an "attitude".

Back a few years ago before my emigration to the US (and thus I was still looking at things from the point of view of the dominant Irish mentality), I was visiting a US military facility in Korea. A chap was on the line with his son, about twelve if I recall, and the son was banging away with a 1911 Colt .45 under fairly close supervision. I asked him if he didn't think his kid was a bit young to be shooting a pistol. He responded that he would much rather his son learned about firearms usage and safety from him than from some other boy behind the bike shed at school. I have to say, I had no response to that.

NTM

Clare gunner

Kiith wrote:

I dont need first hand legal experience. A 10 month old child got a gun license. Thats reason enough to see how rediculous they are.

And just shows your total bigoted ignorance of what actually goes on over there.It is not as if the father is giving a 10 month old kid a gun,the kid has a permit but not a hope in HELL of actually possesing a firearm until he is 18 at least or 21 for a handgun.That is federal law,not state law.And BTW i was ten 30 odd years ago,a different country then the one we unfortuneatly inhabit now..And yes it is quite common in the US in the midwest and south for farm kids to have their first rifle and shotgun around that age.Along with raising their first pet calf for market or the table....
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing in your case:rolleyes:

Wrist slitting rarely causes death??You obviously aint much of a doctor or whatever either.A proper job is not across the wrist but into the wrist deep and then a 90degree up the arm.
5starpool.
Nope,I am still here,and I never have had or did have any necessity to think about killing myself as a teen or ever.It came down to the fact I could TALK to my parents about bany problems etc.Unlike most parents today who are too self absorbed to look after their kids or their problems.And so,if the kid swallows Mommys sleeping tablets and a bottle of Jack Daniels or robs Dads seris 7 BMW and wears it off a bridge stanction do we say the same .

If you really want to know what child abuse is;give your teen son daughter a high powerd souped up car for their 18 birthday,with crap Irish driving training and let them off in it with no idea of the power or capability.Along with a total ignorance on how to drink responsibily or even drug responsibility as that is all taboo to do,talk or show our little darlings.Shure they will become total knowlegeable adults the moment they turn 18 .
And off they go and wrap themselves around some poor sap coming home or into another bunch of dead heads going the opposite way.
You want carnage that defeats the best gun atroticites ??Look at our roads..We have killed more of ourselves on our roads than gun accidents in the US or here in FOUR years than guns have.
THOSE are the kind of fukwitted parents that should be held responsible.

Lord Oz

It doesn't really matter if even 99% of kids are "responsible" with firearms. That 1% that isn't responsible is 1% too many and it's just not worth it. Besides, why do you need a gun in this day and age?

sam34

Clare gunner wrote:

Wrist slitting rarely causes death??You obviously aint much of a doctor or whatever either.A proper job is not across the wrist but into the wrist deep and then a 90degree up the arm.

and my point was that wrist slitting rarely causes death. ie that the majority of slit wriss are superficial lacerations that result in very little injury. so if you take the proportion of people that die from slit wrists as a proportion of all the people that cut their wrists, it is very low, thus making death from slit wrists rare.
and im very highly qualified, actually.
btw, the cut youre describing will not necessarily result in death, its not a guarantee of a "proper job"

KamiKazi

someone made a point about more deaths occuring on irish roads than gun-related deaths in the us.

at least the government are trying to stop the carnage on roads, what are the u.s. government doing about the retarded gun laws?

everytime i hear anything about american gun policy i get a mental image of cleetus from the simpsons.

Clare gunner

Er lets see what are the Americans doing to sort out there retarded gun laws!

1]Education in public schools in the form of the NRA "Eddie Eagle" gun saftey awareness[If you see a gun dont touch it] type lectures. Ditto for the JFPO "Granpa Jack" gun awareness class lectures.

2] The Barady "instant backround check" to see wether you are a convicted felon,dishonourably discharged from the US armed forces,drug addict,communist,anarchist or other listed group.

3] The NRA firearms saftey courses for hunting and firearms handling.

Oh,well every State can make up it's own laws on firearms possesion and ownership.But the trouble you know it alls miss is that in the US it is a RIGHT,not a privilige like over here to keep and bear arms,sort of like the right to freedom of speech to moan about gun laws.
When the Irish motor industry starts running cheap driver evasion and road handling courses.Give us a shout.

I always get the picture of anti gunners in Europe going on about American gun laws as people who have never set foot in the place,and get all their knowledge on this complex matter from Sky News and the US soap operas.
Sort of the "malcom &cressida"Modern Parents cartoon figures from Viz comics.

Well Sam
Guess you have never REALLY seen a razor blade suicide then have you?
Because most suicides by cutting are just that.You are taking out the main artery in the arms
So apart from arguing pendantics about wrist cutting and slashing?What in your "qualified opinion"is the correct way of offing yourself by cutting your wrists and [ii] will you demonstrate it for us?:rolleyes:
And speaking of making ASSumptions...cast the first stone at yourself. YOU have been making them all thru this post about Americans and gun laws etc.


Lord Oz
Well in that case it is the 1%of kids that are irresponsible drivers and that is too much over here.So lets ban anyone from driving until they are 40.And what do you need a car for that can go over 120kmh these days??
Why would you want a gun..plenty of reasons.

sam34

Clare gunner wrote:

Well Sam
Guess you have never REALLY seen a razor blade suicide then have you?
Because most suicides by cutting are just that.You are taking out the main artery in the arms
So apart from arguing pendantics about wrist cutting and slashing?What in your "qualified opinion"is the correct way of offing yourself by cutting your wrists and [ii] will you demonstrate it for us?:rolleyes:
And speaking of making ASSumptions...cast the first stone at yourself. YOU have been making them all thru this post about Americans and gun laws etc.QUOTE]

ive seen a few actually. but ive seen lots more attempts to do it that way that have failed, because, as ive ststed, its not common to die by wrist cutting.
and practice what you preach about assumptions.

Clare gunner

Didnt answer my question on how a sucide should be done properly?:D
Tell all,as a qualified doctor???? you should know.... so inform us ignorant redneck American gun owners.
Now are we going to debate this somwhat [ir]ationally or we going to go and trade kindergarten level insults?:rolleyes:

Victor

Manic Moran wrote:

Oh, and you'll note the name is 'Moran'

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/n/U/moran.jpg

Jesus Wept

Boston wrote:

And what? Sticking a shot gun in you mouth is common? There are a lot of legally held firearms in Ireland, yet suicide using them is fairly uncommon. What exactly is your argument for bringing suicide into this? If someone is determined to kill themselves they will fine a way.

Try reading rather than ranting, I didn't bring suicide into this, I was responding to someone elses comments, he mentioned it.

Pay attention.



Anyhow, It was wrong of whoever mentioned suicide, guns have more use than for shooting people and things, they make grand paperweights too.