Love or hate, Jack

Agamemnon · 08-05-2007 06:15PM

Sad Professor wrote:

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

LOL!

Locke is a good character when he's off in the jungle by himself but he'd be a disaster as leader. There's more than a hint of David Koresh/George Bush to him in that he's guided by what he thinks are supernatural forces whispering in his ear. If he thought the island wanted it, he'd burn all the Losties in a wicker man and dance the macarena around it in Nikki's bikini.

Sinfonia · 08-05-2007 06:29PM

agamemnon wrote:

If he thought the island wanted it, he'd burn all the Losties in a wicker man and dance the macarena around it in Nikki's bikini.

Spoiler tags please

Haven't a Clue · 08-05-2007 06:42PM

Sad Professor wrote:

Seriously, folks, you're one of the survivors, who would you choose as your leader?

Sayid: the ex-Iraqi torturer who comes up with such brilliant plans as "me, Jin and his pregnant wife are going to ambush the Others all by ourselves in Desmond's boat, they'll never see us coming!"

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

or

Jack: the spinal surgeon who on the day of the crash was running back and forth across the beach like superman saving everyone's butts and aside from recent suspicions has made getting off the island and bringing rescue to the survivors his primary goal.... but oh wait, he's a bit smug and arrogant and he doesn't ask the right questions about the crazy island so...and we don't like the sound of is voice...

so let's all vote Locke, he'll save us :rolleyes:

Or...

Sayid: The one person that Desmond, Charlie and Hurley have decided to trust in regards to Naomi. Is an excellent judge of character (eg Juliette). The person who found Danielle and again, the only one who she seems to trust. Would never do anything with harming the losties in mind, even if some of his plans go awry (sp?).

Locke: No, he's a bit daft alright.

Jack: Is no longer trusted by many, if not all of the survivors. Poor judge of character (eg Juliette). Seemed quite content to be part of the others because he, and only he (of the survivors) was getting off the island. The man who knew about Michael lying about the others, yet, lets them go off searching for them.

Makes it slightly more even. I know Jack is probably needed on the show as every show needs that crappy hero guy despite there being way more interesting characters around him. He's still a prick though.

cooker3 · 08-05-2007 07:45PM

SumGuy wrote:

I can see why people have gotten sick of Jack in season 3, because he's just been a bit smug and a bit of a psycho.
But I started watching season 1 again last night, and I have to say, the man is cool under pressure, especially in the pilot, and he's an essential character in my opinion.
Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

Best post ever

Anyway why I hate Jack, I suppose part of it is because I have always been a
Locke fan but it is more that he has way too many flashbacks, he has by far the most and they are mostly crap and boring. The only redeeming part of them is Christian Shepard.
He is a not a leader anymore, he is a dictator, telling everyone what to do.
This was summed up perfectly when Sayed immediately starts questioning Juliette and he stops them, wtf why do that. Doesn't he want answers.

The only good thing I can think about Jack is the touchdown dance he did at end of Par Avion, for me he can't die soon enough although I doubt that will ever happen.

magick · 08-05-2007 07:53PM

Dont like Jack either, i think Generic crash survivor #23 should be the leader

Gillie · 08-05-2007 07:56PM

cooker3 wrote:

Best post ever

Anyway why I hate Jack, I suppose part of it is because I have always been a
Locke fan but it is more that he has way too many flashbacks, he has by far the most and they are mostly crap and boring. The only redeeming part of them is Christian Shepard.
He is a not a leader anymore, he is a dictator, telling everyone what to do.
This was summed up perfectly when Sayed immediately starts questioning Juliette and he stops them, wtf why do that. Doesn't he want answers.

The only good thing I can think about Jack is the touchdown dance he did at end of Par Avion, for me he can't die soon enough although I doubt that will ever happen.

Jack and Juliet are thick as thieves! They know something and they're not telling anyone!
Die Jack Die (German for The Jack, The!);)

Sawyer for new leader!

Royale with Cheese · 08-05-2007 08:03PM

Yeah I liked Jack at first but over time he's come to annoy me alot. Wouldn't mind seeing him killed off in the finale at all really.

Crucifix · 08-05-2007 08:05PM

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Maybe they'll go all Lord of the Flies with them all trying to kill Jack after a while. The main character in that's name was Jack too, wasn't it?

Ralph was the leader there, Jack was the guy who lead the revolt.

I like Jack. He's done some dumb stuff, but so have most of the main players. Plus he's stubborn as fuck, which I can relate too.

Love the turtles analogy; Genius!

ZiabR · 08-05-2007 08:39PM

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Or...

Sayid: The one person that Desmond, Charlie and Hurley have decided to trust in regards to Naomi. Is an excellent judge of character (eg Juliette). The person who found Danielle and again, the only one who she seems to trust. Would never do anything with harming the losties in mind, even if some of his plans go awry (sp?).

I will admit that in this case, yes Sayid is the man. I do like the way that he takes no **** from anyone and he always thinks everyone new lies until they are proven otherwise. He is a really great member of the losties to have, no doubt about that but as far as leadership goes, i still dont think he is the man.

Faith · 08-05-2007 10:03PM

SumGuy wrote:

Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

Roffle! You've been thinking of that for months, haven't you? It actually all fits perfectly too. Someone has to be Irma - Claire, maybe?

Sad Professor · 08-05-2007 10:24PM

Faith wrote:

Roffle! You've been thinking of that for months, haven't you? It actually all fits perfectly too. Someone has to be Irma - Claire, maybe?

Who was Irma again? I used to love the Turtles, can't believe I don't remember.

Faith · 08-05-2007 10:25PM

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

Sad Professor · 08-05-2007 10:29PM

Faith wrote:

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

Ah yes, it's all coming back to me now

ZiabR · 08-05-2007 11:29PM

Faith wrote:

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

It all comes flooding back

. Watching The Turtles before school when i was a wee lad

Killaqueen!!! · 09-05-2007 05:15PM

I like Jack. In season 1 he was fantastic. They needed a leader and he was there. Everyone who's moaning 'who made him boss' - don't forget that he didn't want to be the leader but Locke (and most others) did. He's a spinal surgeon for Chrissake.

In season 2 he was a man of Science and doubted Locke but I think he still had the survivors best interest in heart.

Now in season 3 everyone just forgets all that he's done because of a few crap flashbacks and cos he's smug? If you were one of the survivors there'd be a name for you - selfish ungrateful bitch!

I find him incredibly annoying at the moment what with the Juliet+Others situation but even if it turns out that Jack was in the wrong, I still think he's an important character.

cooker3 · 09-05-2007 08:00PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Now in season 3 everyone just forgets all that he's done because of a few crap flashbacks and cos he's smug? If you were one of the survivors there'd be a name for you - selfish ungrateful bitch!

Yeah but I am not a survivor, I am a viewer of a tv show and Jack bores and annoys me so I want him gone. I mean if I was survivor I would want Ben dead but I very much don't want that as a viewer!

Killaqueen!!! · 09-05-2007 09:03PM

cooker3 wrote:

Yeah but I am not a survivor, I am a viewer of a tv show and Jack bores and annoys me so I want him gone. I mean if I was survivor I would want Ben dead but I very much don't that as a viewer!

True.

I still think he'll turn around back into the old Jack that he was....hopefully! And if he does that yis have no reason to complain!

Haven't a Clue · 09-05-2007 09:23PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

True.

I still think he'll turn around back into the old Jack that he was....hopefully! And if he does that yis have no reason to complain!

It'll still involve him being an autocratic leader. He'd just say more ****e like "live together, die alone" and stuff like that.

Killaqueen!!! · 09-05-2007 10:54PM

Haven't a Clue wrote:

It'll still involve him being an autocratic leader. He'd just say more ****e like "live together, die alone" and stuff like that.

Don't tell me you didn't like that moment??!!

You just don't like a hero, that's it! Or else you wanted someone else to be the hero but Jack was instead and now you're jealous!!

emeraldstar · 09-05-2007 10:55PM

Hate. He just bugs me, the way he takes charge over everyone...everyone feels they have to report to him. And he's just plain annoying. Him and Kate, agh!!

ZiabR · 09-05-2007 11:52PM

emeraldstar wrote:

Hate. He just bugs me, the way he takes charge over everyone...everyone feels they have to report to him. And he's just plain annoying. Him and Kate, agh!!

Ah they dont feel like they have to report to him, they just do it on their own bat. I mean when Kate ran to Jack to tell him about Naomi i nearly threw the remote at the screen.

Haven't a Clue · 10-05-2007 04:30PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Don't tell me you didn't like that moment??!!

You just don't like a hero, that's it! Or else you wanted someone else to be the hero but Jack was instead and now you're jealous!!

You're spot on actually, I don't like heroes. No wonder I could never really warm to the show of the same name I suppose.

man1 · 11-05-2007 01:39PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Now in season 3 everyone just forgets all that he's done because of a few crap flashbacks and cos he's smug? If you were one of the survivors there'd be a name for you - selfish ungrateful bitch!

Why ungrateful????? What has he done for anyone?

man1 · 11-05-2007 01:40PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

True.

I still think he'll turn around back into the old Jack that he was....hopefully! And if he does that yis have no reason to complain!

The old jack was probably more annoying!!!!!

mr_angry · 11-05-2007 02:23PM

pickarooney wrote:

Eh, you don't have to like someone just because they're good leadership material. Jack is like the Roy Keane or the Chairman Mao of Lost

Heh. Roy Keane, Chairman Mao, and Jack Shepard all compared in one sentence. Interesting!

Anyway, I thought that Jack was excellent in Season 1. Things went somewhat awry in Season 2 where I think we were given too many mediocre back-story episodes featuring him. Nevertheless, I think it was clear that they were meant to demonstrate a different side of Jack - one that is uncompromising, and very often wrong. In some ways, I think the above comparison is very good. Being a good leader doesn't necessarily mean that you're a likable person, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good person. Has it occured to some of the people here that maybe you're meant to dislike Jack at this point?

ZiabR · 13-05-2007 09:21PM

mr_angry wrote:

Heh. Roy Keane, Chairman Mao, and Jack Shepard all compared in one sentence. Interesting!

In some ways, I think the above comparison is very good. Being a good leader doesn't necessarily mean that you're a likable person, and it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good person. Has it occured to some of the people here that maybe you're meant to dislike Jack at this point?

Hmm this is interesting. If you look at Ben as the leader of the Others, then we see that there is the possibility that he is not a likable person from the view of the people he orders around and we have seen that he is not completely a good person the way he manipulates people and lies. As said above, maybe we are meant to dislike Jack at this stage in the show.

Love or hate, Jack

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