Love or hate, Jack

tosh_thedude

Just wondering why allot of people dislike or even hate Jack, some people even wanting him killed off?! I've watched Lost from the beginning, seen his up's and down just like the rest of the characters. So why is everybody so hard on the guy? Hasn't he done nothing but help the survivors on the Island, save peoples lives, been a general nice guy?! Is this why people don't like him? I for one think he's one of the most important people in Lost and would be quiet shocked if he was killed off or banished. Comments please!

ZiabR

I have been behind him all the way. I like his character. I think the main reason alot of people got annoyed was because the writers did alots of filler eps about halfway in season 3 and alot of them were based on Jack. He is a solid character and still has further developments to abstain from in LOST.

Sad Professor

I like Jack too. He's taken a back seat for most of this season so I don't get the he-gets-too-much-screentime argument. A lot of people have something against Matthew Fox which probably accounts for most of the hate. In other cases people hate Jack because he gets more screentime than *insert favourite character here*. As in any ensemble fans tend to take a disliking to the dominant player(s).

Agamemnon

I like him as well. I think a lot of the people who hate him must be hard-core Locke fans who don't like the way Jack questions their hero. Just about every thread here has a post with someone giving out about him. Maybe we should have a thread called "Jack is a ****-faced sack of ****ing **** " so all the anti-Jack posts could be in one place.

man1

logik wrote:

I have been behind him all the way. I like his character. I think the main reason alot of people got annoyed was because the writers did alots of filler eps about halfway in season 3 and alot of them were based on Jack. He is a solid character and still has further developments to forgo in LOST.

I dont think this is the reason that makes me and most others want to throw a brick at the TV everytime I see him.

For me anyway it is his "I know it all and only I can be right" attitude/personality.
Also the fact that he thinks he is the leader and is shocked when someone questions his authority. Who the F**K made him the boss?????
Oh how I loved it last night when hurley/charlie/sayid and co all agreed that they wouldnt tell jack about naomi. (when before they would have all ran to him straightaway and squeeled "what will we do jack")
It was going so great till kate ran to him and blabbed all like she was trying to impress him and win him back!! How saaaaaaaaddddddddddddd!!

ZiabR

man1 wrote:

I dont think this is the reason that makes me and most others want to throw a brick at the TV everytime I see him.

Haha i had a good laugh when i read that line....

But seriously he is not always saying he knows it all and what he says goes. He is a born leader in my eyes and the reason people come to him for help is because they see him as exactly that. He is a very intellegent character, you would have to be to be a spinal surgeon and he plays his character really well.

MisterAnarchy

Cant stand him.
He is an impetuous ,irrational,impulsive know it all.
He is a block head .
Why should he be the boss ?
Sayid,Locke or Desmond are far better suited to being leader than Jack .

Sad Professor

man1 wrote:

Also the fact that he thinks he is the leader and is shocked when someone questions his authority. Who the F**K made him the boss?????

tbh Jack (though initially reluctant) was made the de facto leader by the survivors in 1x05. Everyone including Locke supported him.

Gillie

Hate him with a passion!
I know everything...
Where were you...
Why didn't someone tell me....

Blah blah blah!

Really hope he gets killed off! There are a lot of other characters in the show who i'd prefer to Jack!
Sawyer, Locke, Sayid, Ben, Des even Charlie at times!

ZiabR

Sad Professor wrote:

tbh Jack (though initially reluctant) was made the de facto leader by the survivors in 1x05. Everyone including Locke supported him.

Thank you Prof . This is what i mean, people came to him because he stood out from everyone else. You can't fault him for that.

kinda lost

Jacks a spinal surgeon and in my eyes that makes him out to be a very intelligent man, if i were one of the survivors id stick by him,with there being no other doc around and no hospitals.

Thats y i guess everyone listens to him, he is quiet a tosser though really annoys me and he talks down to everyone,but saying all that they cant kill him off the show needs him.

Haven't a Clue

There was a line in his flashbacks in Thailand along the lines of "I guess I'm a nice guy", or something along those lines. That sort of smug attitude is why I hate him.

His flashbacks have ALL been ****. I have no interest in what torments Jack, unless its his own smugness. Oh, if only I was one of those Thai blokes kicking the ****e out of him on the beach.

And while Jack may have been a reluctant leader to start off, his time as leader has shown what a complete prick he is. It's his way or the high way all the time. Like, thinking way back to the first six episodes of s3, you could see everyone's shock when Locke said everyone was free to come along looking for Eko and the swan hatch. This was because they'd become used to Jack picking from either Sayid, Kate or Sawyer and inevitably being joined by Locke.

In conclusion, Jack is a gob****e who I wish a painful, painful death in the finale.

Schism

Cant say that jack is a bad guy or anything he just annoys me, Sayid would be a great leader imo.

ZiabR

If pushed Sayids past and anger would be too much and he would do bad bad things. He would become a dictator. lets face it, Sayids people skills lack a few major aspects

Haven't a Clue

logik wrote:

If pushed Sayids past and anger would be too much and he would do bad bad things. He would become a dictator. lets face it, Sayids people skills lack a few major aspects

Hold on, in a situation where the losties find themselves, surely a 'trust no-one' approach would be wisest. Yet, there's Jack making **** small talk with Juliette who's screwing him over nicely. On the other hand, Sayid's just biding his time before he interrogates the bejesus out of Juliette, or until Jack pisses off.

Still, I reckon we'll find out that Jack is in fact part of the others plan, or that he knows all about it. Why else would he and Juliette be sharing secrets they don't feel safe telling Kate yet?

But that's off the point, Jack sucks.

ZiabR

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Hold on, in a situation where the losties find themselves, surely a 'trust no-one' approach would be wisest. Yet, there's Jack making **** small talk with Juliette who's screwing him over nicely. On the other hand, Sayid's just biding his time before he interrogates the bejesus out of Juliette, or until Jack pisses off.

Still, I reckon we'll find out that Jack is in fact part of the others plan, or that he knows all about it. Why else would he and Juliette be sharing secrets they don't feel safe telling Kate yet?

But that's off the point, Jack sucks.

Understood, Juliet wanted to tell Kate about whatever it is they are hiding, it was Jack that said "she is not ready yet". Whatever that means, but thats off point also. Are you not curious about what happened to Jack in that week he spent with the Others and also about what he knows now?

Jacks character still has alot going for it.

Haven't a Clue

I'm hoping beyond hope that Jack knows more than he's letting on as it might make him remotely interesting. The depressing reality though is that Jack probably is telling the truth, he just shut up for the week so he'd get on his nice submarine.

man1

logik wrote:

If pushed Sayids past and anger would be too much and he would do bad bad things. He would become a dictator. lets face it, Sayids people skills lack a few major aspects

...and jacks peoples skills are better?

I think sayid would be good as a leader. He would be tough but fair. He would have better organisation skills. He wouldnt let all the secrets and not telling each other crap happen.
Anyway why do they need a leader..........

jellie

i liked him in the beginning, now hes just annoying. Hopefully juliet will do something awful to him..

pickarooney

People hate him because he's a righteous, humourless cock, I would have thought. No?

Haven't a Clue

man1 wrote:

...and jacks peoples skills are better?

I think sayid would be good as a leader. He would be tough but fair. He would have better organisation skills. He wouldnt let all the secrets and not telling each other crap happen.
Anyway why do they need a leader..........

Maybe they'll go all Lord of the Flies with them all trying to kill Jack after a while. The main character in that's name was Jack too, wasn't it?

ZiabR

man1 wrote:

Anyway why do they need a leader..........

Look at the human race, we have always had and always will need a leader. People need something "religion" or someone "leader" to look up to.

Without a leader on that Island it would have been mayhem.

Nalz

I dislike the character cas he always asks the wrong questions and when he knows something that the public dont find out about for a good few weeks, he's a bit smug and his voice can be a little frustrating.

hate is a strong word though!!

Haven't a Clue

logik wrote:

Without a leader on that Island it would have been mayhem.

So, while under the threat of the others taking any of their pregnant women, having one of the others infiltrate them, having a british bird land onto the island looking for Desmond, running out of food (you saw how Charlie sniffed at the jar of jam the last night ) and having a death rate of roughly a person every 15 days all means that the Island is currently in a state of calm? Thought not.

Sad Professor

Seriously, folks, you're one of the survivors, who would you choose as your leader?

Sayid: the ex-Iraqi torturer who comes up with such brilliant plans as "me, Jin and his pregnant wife are going to ambush the Others all by ourselves in Desmond's boat, they'll never see us coming!"

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

or

Jack: the spinal surgeon who on the day of the crash was running back and forth across the beach like superman saving everyone's butts and aside from recent suspicions has made getting off the island and bringing rescue to the survivors his primary goal.... but oh wait, he's a bit smug and arrogant and he doesn't ask the right questions about the crazy island so...and we don't like the sound of is voice...

so let's all vote Locke, he'll save us :rolleyes:

ZiabR

Haven't a Clue wrote:

So, while under the threat of the others taking any of their pregnant women, having one of the others infiltrate them, having a british bird land onto the island looking for Desmond, running out of food (you saw how Charlie sniffed at the jar of jam the last night ) and having a death rate of roughly a person every 15 days all means that the Island is currently in a state of calm? Thought not.

A come on . You know what i mean. Before Jack stood up in ep5 season 1 and talked to everyone about what needed to be done, people were in a state of war of something like bottled water. If there was no leader figure early on, the losties would have split up and formed smaller groups of people. When stranded on an Island it would be best to stay together no?

When they first crashed rememeber they had no idea about the Others etc, so they still needed a leader figure.

ZiabR

Sad Professor wrote:

Seriously, folks, you're one of the survivors, who would you choose as your leader?

Sayid: the ex-Iraqi torturer who comes up with such brilliant plans as "me, Jin and his pregnant wife are going to ambush the Others all by ourselves in Desmond's boat, they'll never see us coming!"

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

or

Jack: the spinal surgeon who on the day of the crash was running back and forth across the beach like superman saving everyone's butts and aside from recent suspicions has made getting off the island and bringing rescue to the survivors his primary goal.... but oh wait, he's a bit smug and arrogant and he doesn't ask the right questions about the crazy island so...

Aye very well put and when its put like that you can see why Jack was the one chosen by the other losties to "lead" them in a way.

Sinfonia

logik wrote:

He is a solid character and still has further developments to forgo in LOST.

Just so you know, forgo means to abstain from.
Not being finicky about your grammar, just think it reads funny - "He still has further developments to abstain from in LOST":D

Anyways...
I can see why people have gotten sick of Jack in season 3, because he's just been a bit smug and a bit of a psycho.
But I started watching season 1 again last night, and I have to say, the man is cool under pressure, especially in the pilot, and he's an essential character in my opinion.
Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

pickarooney

Eh, you don't have to like someone just because they're good leadership material. Jack is like the Roy Keane or the Chairman Mao of Lost

ZiabR

SumGuy wrote:

Just so you know, forgo means to abstain from.
Not being finicky about your grammar, just think it reads funny - "He still has further developments to abstain from in LOST":D

Not at all . Its better its corrected than not.

Bounty Hunter

SumGuy wrote:

Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

Lost has just been summed up perfectly.

Agamemnon

Sad Professor wrote:

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

LOL! Locke is a good character when he's off in the jungle by himself but he'd be a disaster as leader. There's more than a hint of David Koresh/George Bush to him in that he's guided by what he thinks are supernatural forces whispering in his ear. If he thought the island wanted it, he'd burn all the Losties in a wicker man and dance the macarena around it in Nikki's bikini.

Sinfonia

agamemnon wrote:

If he thought the island wanted it, he'd burn all the Losties in a wicker man and dance the macarena around it in Nikki's bikini.

Spoiler tags please

Haven't a Clue

Sad Professor wrote:

Seriously, folks, you're one of the survivors, who would you choose as your leader?

Sayid: the ex-Iraqi torturer who comes up with such brilliant plans as "me, Jin and his pregnant wife are going to ambush the Others all by ourselves in Desmond's boat, they'll never see us coming!"

Locke: the former paraplegic who doesn't want to the leave the island and has made it is mission to ensure no one else does either. He has on occasion "sacrificed" one of the survivors because, wait for it, the island told him to do it!

or

Jack: the spinal surgeon who on the day of the crash was running back and forth across the beach like superman saving everyone's butts and aside from recent suspicions has made getting off the island and bringing rescue to the survivors his primary goal.... but oh wait, he's a bit smug and arrogant and he doesn't ask the right questions about the crazy island so...and we don't like the sound of is voice...

so let's all vote Locke, he'll save us :rolleyes:

Or...

Sayid: The one person that Desmond, Charlie and Hurley have decided to trust in regards to Naomi. Is an excellent judge of character (eg Juliette). The person who found Danielle and again, the only one who she seems to trust. Would never do anything with harming the losties in mind, even if some of his plans go awry (sp?).

Locke: No, he's a bit daft alright.

Jack: Is no longer trusted by many, if not all of the survivors. Poor judge of character (eg Juliette). Seemed quite content to be part of the others because he, and only he (of the survivors) was getting off the island. The man who knew about Michael lying about the others, yet, lets them go off searching for them.

Makes it slightly more even. I know Jack is probably needed on the show as every show needs that crappy hero guy despite there being way more interesting characters around him. He's still a prick though.

cooker3

SumGuy wrote:

I can see why people have gotten sick of Jack in season 3, because he's just been a bit smug and a bit of a psycho.
But I started watching season 1 again last night, and I have to say, the man is cool under pressure, especially in the pilot, and he's an essential character in my opinion.
Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

Best post ever

Anyway why I hate Jack, I suppose part of it is because I have always been a
Locke fan but it is more that he has way too many flashbacks, he has by far the most and they are mostly crap and boring. The only redeeming part of them is Christian Shepard.
He is a not a leader anymore, he is a dictator, telling everyone what to do.
This was summed up perfectly when Sayed immediately starts questioning Juliette and he stops them, wtf why do that. Doesn't he want answers.

The only good thing I can think about Jack is the touchdown dance he did at end of Par Avion, for me he can't die soon enough although I doubt that will ever happen.

magick

Dont like Jack either, i think Generic crash survivor #23 should be the leader

Gillie

cooker3 wrote:

Best post ever

Anyway why I hate Jack, I suppose part of it is because I have always been a
Locke fan but it is more that he has way too many flashbacks, he has by far the most and they are mostly crap and boring. The only redeeming part of them is Christian Shepard.
He is a not a leader anymore, he is a dictator, telling everyone what to do.
This was summed up perfectly when Sayed immediately starts questioning Juliette and he stops them, wtf why do that. Doesn't he want answers.

The only good thing I can think about Jack is the touchdown dance he did at end of Par Avion, for me he can't die soon enough although I doubt that will ever happen.

Jack and Juliet are thick as thieves! They know something and they're not telling anyone!
Die Jack Die (German for The Jack, The!);)

Sawyer for new leader!

Royale with Cheese

Yeah I liked Jack at first but over time he's come to annoy me alot. Wouldn't mind seeing him killed off in the finale at all really.

Crucifix

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Maybe they'll go all Lord of the Flies with them all trying to kill Jack after a while. The main character in that's name was Jack too, wasn't it?

Ralph was the leader there, Jack was the guy who lead the revolt.

I like Jack. He's done some dumb stuff, but so have most of the main players. Plus he's stubborn as fuck, which I can relate too.

Love the turtles analogy; Genius!

ZiabR

Haven't a Clue wrote:

Or...

Sayid: The one person that Desmond, Charlie and Hurley have decided to trust in regards to Naomi. Is an excellent judge of character (eg Juliette). The person who found Danielle and again, the only one who she seems to trust. Would never do anything with harming the losties in mind, even if some of his plans go awry (sp?).

I will admit that in this case, yes Sayid is the man. I do like the way that he takes no **** from anyone and he always thinks everyone new lies until they are proven otherwise. He is a really great member of the losties to have, no doubt about that but as far as leadership goes, i still dont think he is the man.

Faith

SumGuy wrote:

Using a Turtles analogy, he's like the Leonardo - not the best character, but the best all-rounder.
(To follow on from that analogy, Sayid is Donatello, Sawyer is Raphael, Hurley is Michelangelo, Locke is Splinter, Kate is April, Ben is Shredder, Jacob is Krang, ehhhhh...Ethan and Goodwin are Bebop and Rocksteady, and so on).
What was the question again?

Roffle! You've been thinking of that for months, haven't you? It actually all fits perfectly too. Someone has to be Irma - Claire, maybe?

Sad Professor

Faith wrote:

Roffle! You've been thinking of that for months, haven't you? It actually all fits perfectly too. Someone has to be Irma - Claire, maybe?

Who was Irma again? I used to love the Turtles, can't believe I don't remember.

Faith

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

Sad Professor

Faith wrote:

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

Ah yes, it's all coming back to me now

ZiabR

Faith wrote:

April O' Neills inadequate friend. She was mousy, with glasses.

It all comes flooding back . Watching The Turtles before school when i was a wee lad

Killaqueen!!!

I like Jack. In season 1 he was fantastic. They needed a leader and he was there. Everyone who's moaning 'who made him boss' - don't forget that he didn't want to be the leader but Locke (and most others) did. He's a spinal surgeon for Chrissake.

In season 2 he was a man of Science and doubted Locke but I think he still had the survivors best interest in heart.

Now in season 3 everyone just forgets all that he's done because of a few crap flashbacks and cos he's smug? If you were one of the survivors there'd be a name for you - selfish ungrateful bitch!

I find him incredibly annoying at the moment what with the Juliet+Others situation but even if it turns out that Jack was in the wrong, I still think he's an important character.

cooker3

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Now in season 3 everyone just forgets all that he's done because of a few crap flashbacks and cos he's smug? If you were one of the survivors there'd be a name for you - selfish ungrateful bitch!

Yeah but I am not a survivor, I am a viewer of a tv show and Jack bores and annoys me so I want him gone. I mean if I was survivor I would want Ben dead but I very much don't want that as a viewer!

Killaqueen!!!

cooker3 wrote:

Yeah but I am not a survivor, I am a viewer of a tv show and Jack bores and annoys me so I want him gone. I mean if I was survivor I would want Ben dead but I very much don't that as a viewer!

True.

I still think he'll turn around back into the old Jack that he was....hopefully! And if he does that yis have no reason to complain!

Haven't a Clue

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

True.

I still think he'll turn around back into the old Jack that he was....hopefully! And if he does that yis have no reason to complain!

It'll still involve him being an autocratic leader. He'd just say more ****e like "live together, die alone" and stuff like that.

Killaqueen!!!

Haven't a Clue wrote:

It'll still involve him being an autocratic leader. He'd just say more ****e like "live together, die alone" and stuff like that.

Don't tell me you didn't like that moment??!!

You just don't like a hero, that's it! Or else you wanted someone else to be the hero but Jack was instead and now you're jealous!!

emeraldstar

Hate. He just bugs me, the way he takes charge over everyone...everyone feels they have to report to him. And he's just plain annoying. Him and Kate, agh!!