Child abducted in Portugal

bug · 09-05-2007 10:58PM

One thing that has been repeated in the media for anyone watching the story is that the locals in Praia de Luz leave their doors unlocked, and its a generally safe place to be.
Perhaps the parents took a little more relaxed attitude in accordance with the apparent safety of the area, unlike they would at home.

Having been on holiday in resorts (and in the Algarve), I know of plenty of couples who nip down to the bar for a drink, taking turns to frequently check on their kids, its not an uncommon phenomenon in a family holiday environment and it isn't generally perceived as wrong until something goes wrong.

It may be a little naive in hindsight to be engulfed by a sense of safety in a foreign environment, but I've seen it myself.

I pray to god they find the child alive and safe. Looking at her little face on the news before I go asleep at night and thinking of where and what state she could be in unnerves me to say the least. Can you even imagine being her mother or father?

iguana · 10-05-2007 12:08AM

mkennedy wrote:

as for the portuguese police they seem to be largely clueless. there were suggestions that they didn't close off the borders quick enough etc.

Tbh, as the resort was only an hour from the French border the Portugese police may not have had time to prevent the abductor from crossing the border. It's not unreasonable to assume that the child could have been taken 25 minutes before her mother discovered her gone. By the time she would have called her husband and explained the problem to the police, especially considering the language difficulty, and the police would have raised the alarm at the borders the abductor could easily have been in France.

Also I have to say that if I was a detective and a couple came to me saying their 3 year old daughter had been kidnapped while they were out at dinner. And they had left the child in their apartment with a pair of two year olds my very first suspicion would be with the parents because I wouldn't be able to accept that people would actually leave their toddlers alone like that.

Please know that I do not believe the McCann's are in lying about what happened in anyway, I'm just saying that if I was a police officer I would not accept their story right away and it's possible that they were the police's first suspect.

10-05-2007 12:20AM

Why are some people and the media having a go at the Portugese police and "brushing under the carpet" the fact that the parents left their children on there own.
I hope it turns out well and she is found ok, after this then someone needs to have a serious word with the parents about leaving them on there own.

aidan24326 · 10-05-2007 12:28AM

hellboy99 wrote:

...after this then someone needs to have a serious word with the parents about leaving them on there own.

er, I don't think they'd need to be told now, would they?

Thrill · 10-05-2007 01:03AM

mkennedy wrote:

.
but tbh they're paying dearly for their mistake now

Actually it's the child who's paying dearly for their mistake.

The parents may very well be terrified and grief stricken about their
daughter being kidnapped but it is the little girl who's life is in danger.

I find it hard to feel sympathy for them right now when it's that poor girl
who's suffering the most. God knows what she is being put through, if she
is even still alive.

I know no parent deserves this to happen to them but it is the child who is
suffering the most in all of this. My thoughts lie solely with that girl and i
hope that she is found alive and well.

mkennedy · 10-05-2007 01:44AM

thrill wrote:

Actually it's the child who's paying dearly for their mistake.

yes of course..
Both child and parents are paying dearly for the mistake.

daveg · 10-05-2007 08:37AM

Been a father myself I have been watching this story in the media. It is one of the saddest things I have ever seen. Very very sad situation. It is terrible that the parents left the kids (3 kids, Maddie @ 6 was the oldest), esp when there was a babysitting service available for E5 per hour. However it's too late now....

According to the news yesterday it would appear they fear the most likely possibility is that child traffickers have abducted her. A profiling expert was on newstalk yesterday and said, if she had wondered off on her own, she would be dead by now. The reporter asked would there be a high possibility she is still alive if abducted by traffickers, to which he replied at this stage she is most probably dead.

As a parent I can honestly say this would be the worst possible thing that could ever happen. To have your child abducted and never know what happened to them. To never be able to mourn them, not knowing if they were dead or not. Always wondering of the pain they went through..

Regardless of the blame associated with the parents my thoughts and prayers go out to them. It has opened my eyes to the "real world" out there. My wife told me yesterday about the guy that called into Gerry Ryan. I would have never known this stuff happened in Europe. It is fúcking scary.

tallus · 10-05-2007 08:53AM

I heard the Gerry Ryan call, the guy has a daughter who at the time was a similar age to Madeleine. the guy reckoned they were followed from the airport in Lanzarote. His wife woke up at about 2am in the morning to see a light on in the appartment. They got up to find that the childs clothes had been packed into her suitcase and also her husbands clothes were taken along with his passport, credit cards, and money. The bedclothes on the little girls bed had been folded back so one can surmise that they were about to take her when the wife woke up and disturbed the kidnappers. The child was on her fathers passport. Her father spent the rest of the holiday staying awake at night with a knife in his hand. He said the only thing that got them through the rest of the holiday was the great help they got from the english people also staying in the same area.

skywalker · 10-05-2007 09:39AM

Stekelly wrote:

Go out to the pub/restaurant and leavign your kids at home is more than just "letting your guard down". letting your guard down would be turnign your back and your child running off.

Completely. Cant understand the folk saying the parents werent negligent. Its bordering on child abuse.

daveg · 10-05-2007 10:10AM

News on Newstalk has just reported new developments in the case. Crimestoppers in the Uk have just passed on important information which may help solve the case. Fingers crossed.

Mahatma coat · 10-05-2007 10:19AM

what sort of place was it that they were stayin in exactly, was it serviced like with walls and security and staff wanderin about and generally givin the impression of a place where someone would notice someone wanderin off with a toddler that belonged to someone else

or was it more like the self contained unit in the highstret kinda thing through an agencie type jobbie

they could have hired a babysitter but chances are this would have happened anyway, these kind of things are seldom random

scojones · 10-05-2007 11:00AM

This is a very sad case but I have to ask the moral police here: What's the point? Why are you ranting on about who is to blame? Does it matter? For example, how are you going to blame the parents? Pointing fingers and blaming someone is a waste of time IMO. I can imagine the parents are well aware of how this could have been prevented and I'm sure they have replayed this in their minds a million times over since she was taken.

I just fail to see the point in discussing who was to blame and how it could have been prevented. We all knew the answers to these questions before this thread was created.

ntlbell · 10-05-2007 11:18AM

bug wrote:

One thing that has been repeated in the media for anyone watching the story is that the locals in Praia de Luz leave their doors unlocked, and its a generally safe place to be.
Perhaps the parents took a little more relaxed attitude in accordance with the apparent safety of the area, unlike they would at home.

Not sure about that, what I've been hearing is that child abduction in that area is very common.

Leaving your door unlocked and leaving a minor on their own are slightly different, maybe TV's and DVD players don't go for nearly as much as a young child.

But I think enough blame has been thrown at the parents and it's time to move on and hope the child who is not to blame is safley returned to her familiy

robinph · 10-05-2007 11:18AM

iguana wrote:

Tbh, as the resort was only an hour from the French border the Portugese police may not have had time to prevent the abductor from crossing the border.

You should have paid more attention in geography I think.

iguana · 10-05-2007 11:33AM

robinph wrote:

You should have paid more attention in geography I think.

Yes, sorry Spain.:o

scojones wrote:

I just fail to see the point in discussing who was to blame and how it could have been prevented. We all knew the answers to these questions before this thread was created.

Well actually not everyone does seem to know that. I have been in a few discussions about this case where a lot of people seem to think that what they did was reasonable. A childcare "expert" on ITV suggested that it was a reasonable, small mistake to leave them alone. Even here people are comparing leaving three toddlers home alone while you go to a restauraunt to losing sight of your child for a few seconds in a shopping center. If these discussions discourage another parent from behaving in the same way as the McCanns then that's a good thing.

Dudess · 10-05-2007 12:50PM

aidan24326 wrote:

-Everyone seems to be jumping to all kinds of conclusions about what might be happening to this little girl. We don't know who has taken her or what their motive was. If it was for the illegal adoption market she's likely to be unharmed. One can only hope it isn't for the child porn 'industry', that doesn't bear thinking about. No point jumping to conclusions though.

She's a blonde, fair-skinned little girl in a tourist resort. It's only logical that one would assume the worst.

dame · 10-05-2007 02:30PM

Ickle Magoo wrote:

Did anyone hear Gerry Ryan on Tues am? Man was describing an incident in Lanzorote 2 years ago when men broke into the apartment while they were asleep and dressed in the fathers clothes, took his passport (as the children were on it) and a suitcase with the little girls clothes and were lifting a little girl out of her bed when he discovered them in the bedroom. Terrifying. :eek::(

I didn't hear this story but what was the outcome? Did the police catch these people? Did they go to prison?

WindSock · 10-05-2007 03:08PM

iguana wrote:

Even here people are comparing leaving three toddlers home alone while you go to a restauraunt to losing sight of your child for a few seconds in a shopping center.

I was making a point about vigilism and childrens safety. While I may not be a parent myself yet, I would imagine you can never be vigilant enough with kids, but at the same time I'm sure many parents have felt it was safe enough to leave their kids on their own for a short amount of time while they are asleep.
I don't think they are bad parents, they are entitled to make silly mistakes like everyone elses parents have. It is just unfortunate that something like this has happened while their guard was down. How could they have known they were being stalked? Are parents meant to go about their daily business under the assumption that someone is waiting for them to slip up?

tallus · 10-05-2007 03:12PM

dame wrote:

I didn't hear this story but what was the outcome? Did the police catch these people? Did they go to prison?

Nobody was caught, but at least they didn't get the little girl.

Kurumba · 10-05-2007 03:52PM

It looks like the police have made some progress, the parents have been driven away at high speed from their apartment and there is a small town near Seville in Spain closed off.

I think there was a sighting of a woman with a girl who fit Madaline's description. Hope and pray they find her safe and well.

iguana · 10-05-2007 04:41PM

Porrtugese police have announced the will be having a press conference at 6.30pm. That doesn't sound good.

stovelid · 10-05-2007 07:59PM

scojones wrote:

This is a very sad case but I have to ask the moral police here: What's the point? Why are you ranting on about who is to blame? Does it matter? For example, how are you going to blame the parents? Pointing fingers and blaming someone is a waste of time IMO. I can imagine the parents are well aware of how this could have been prevented and I'm sure they have replayed this in their minds a million times over since she was taken.

I just fail to see the point in discussing who was to blame and how it could have been prevented. We all knew the answers to these questions before this thread was created.

Agreed.

They should have got a babysitter but considering what some parents do to their children, the negliegence involved is hardly criminal. Nobody expects this sort of thing to happen and like many people have said here, living with what has happened for the rest of their lives is punishment enough.

davyjose · 10-05-2007 08:20PM

stovelid wrote:

Agreed.

They should have got a babysitter but considering what some parents do to their children, the negliegence involved is hardly criminal. Nobody expects this sort of thing to happen and like many people have said here, living with what has happened for the rest of their lives is punishment enough.

The simple fact is that unless the parents kept vigil over the child, or had been previously made aware that their child was going to be kidnapped(both very unlikely), then at some other point the child would have been kidnapped - this was a very calculated operation. And that is what people should be focusing on - this is terrifying.

legs11 · 10-05-2007 08:32PM

she looked a dote in her everton kit so i hope she is found alive.
never knew she was a blue:D

little miss · 10-05-2007 10:36PM

I can't believe they're only releasing pictures of her pyjamas tonight. Its such a sad case. I pray she's safe and alive somewhere. I hate all the criticisms about her parents and the police in the press. Surely, most important thing is to find her.

daveg · 11-05-2007 08:45AM

I can't but think how incompetent the Portuguese Police look. Was expecting news from their press conference last night, but they had no news. If I were the parents I'd be hiring my own people to find her.

luckat · 11-05-2007 09:27AM

Why isn't there an international child abduction team who can be flown in immediately to any country the second something like this happens, and set up the systems that have worked before - computer-generated images using Faces software, notices on TV and radio and internet and newspapers and mobile phones, immediate probes on known paedophiles, etc?

It's crazy for a little police force of country lads who've never experienced something like this to try to feel their way through the fog.

I so hope it's some lonely girl who's taken the little mite, not anything horrible.

angeldelight · 11-05-2007 09:27AM

The criticism of the Portuguese police force is over the top I think. The country's laws prevent release of details about current facts to the media, presumably related to the fact that they don't want their court case and prosecution jeopardised if they catch who they're looking for.

Think about the Jessica & Holly story in the UK.. yes it was all over Sky news practically all day every day til they found them, repeating the same info over and over... they found the girls because of their investigation, not because someone sitting at home watching sky who had never been to the area went hmmm well I think what happened was...

The British ambassador to Portugal (not sure if that's his official title but you know what I mean) released a press statement saying leave them alone to do their job, they're doing everything they can. The family seem to be satisfied that the police are doing what they can. As long as they know what's going on and recent developments, so what if we don't know?

Frankly I'd rather not know if it meant when it came down to it that they were able to prosecute whoever has done this.

county · 11-05-2007 09:41AM

looks like the police are scaling down their search,its not looking good for that poor child

rubyred · 11-05-2007 11:05AM

I heard today that some annonymous british businessman has offered a reward of 1 million sterling for information leading to the girl. Hopefully whoever took her is a greedy fecker! (Although a million isn't much use when your banged up for life - mind you it might buy you a nice budgie to keep you company inside!)

Child abducted in Portugal

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